View Full Version : what do you do?
Here is the scenario
You have a bike you no longer ride (not me) (yet) and you sell it on ebay. The buyer from another country sends you half the money, you send him one key, he sends you the rest of the money, you send him the V5. This happens in November. Because of snow he asks you to keep bike for him. In Feb he states he will come over with van on ferry to pick up bike 1st week in April. As it is now nearly June, bike still not been picked up, cannot contact buyer. Have 1 key but no V5 what can you do? anyone want to buy a bike with no V5?
SuzukiNess
27-05-10, 11:41 AM
you can reapply for the V5 and declare the other lost... ??
you can reapply for the V5 and declare the other lost... ??
is that legal or theft?
It is not illegal to request a new V5. If the procedure is done correctly when selling a vehicle, DVLA will already know who is the registered keeper. Did you/this person transfer the V5 correctly? I am quite sure you have to let DVLA know if the vehicle is being exported.
If the documentation was completed correctly, the new registered keeper of the vehicle will be sent a letter informing them that someone else is trying to apply for a new V5 document for that vehicle. I am not entirely sure if that still works after the vehicle has been exported though.
dirtydog
27-05-10, 12:01 PM
Yep the V5 was filled out correctly to show the bike being exported
CheGuevara
27-05-10, 12:05 PM
Stig is right - you need to complete a small section (brown I think?) dealing with exportation on the RHS of the form, and send that off to the DVLA with a covering letter.
This is what I did when my bike went off to Ireland a short while ago. They sent me a letter back a few weeks later confirming that I've been removed from their records as the keeper. Otherwise you might be liable for tax/SORN.
The rest of the V5 goes with the buyer.
Probably best to give the DVLA a call to explain that the export has not gone ahead and ask them what the procedure is.
As an aside, why was this method of payment arranged? It sounds quite suss to somebody who doesn't know the background.
failing that, break it on ebay :D
gruntygiggles
27-05-10, 12:12 PM
So, are you wanting to have the V5 back in your name because he's not picked up the bike and so you may as well put it up for sale again? I would say this is impossible if the forms were filled and sent off.
When you say you sent him the V5, did you send him the whole thing, or just the new keeper slip and you sent the rest off to DVLA?
I would call them and discuss this with them directly. You should have a DVLA office localish as well where you can go and speak to someone in person. It may be that something has happened to the buyer and no-one in his life knows anything about the bike? I take it you had no problems with the money?
I would just start with the DVLA, explain what's happened and ask what your next move should be.
Was there a bill of sale written out and exchanged? The V5 is only the registered keepers certificate.
I am still not sure what would happen regarding the DVLA contacting the new registered keeper regarding someone else trying to apply for a V5 for that vehicle because that person is overseas. I guess they would do the same thing as if it were someone over here and just send out a standard letter. If DVLA get no response back from the letter over a given period of time, they simply issue the new V5 to the person applying for it.
Biker Biggles
27-05-10, 12:41 PM
If you declared it "permanantly exported" some months ago then that is what the DVLC will have it as.I think you might need to reimport it before they will just issue another V5 and I bet that costs a few quid.
Best call them and ask.
Mr Speirs
27-05-10, 12:56 PM
Nur nur nur nur nur nur nur nur nur nur nur nur nur TRACK BIKE!!!
dizzyblonde
27-05-10, 01:18 PM
BUT, what happens if the bloke turns up and demands bike or his cash back. After all, the money has been sent....and more to the point has it been spent!
BUT, what happens if the bloke turns up and demands bike or his cash back. After all, the money has been sent....and more to the point has it been spent!
Then there is the possibility of what happens if it gets damaged or even worse stolen before the chap has collected it.
dirtydog
27-05-10, 01:22 PM
BUT, what happens if the bloke turns up and demands bike or his cash back. After all, the money has been sent....and more to the point has it been spent!
Exactly.
The Guru
27-05-10, 01:26 PM
BUT, what happens if the bloke turns up and demands bike or his cash back. After all, the money has been sent....and more to the point has it been spent!
Hit him with a storage bill.. which is expensive enough to make him leave it.
Dicky Ticker
27-05-10, 01:32 PM
Deduct the monies paid as storage charges and re-apply for a new v5.The time scale is so large you are within your rights to reposses the vehicle as your property due to the failings of the purchaser in upholding their side of the agreement.
OMO.
Worst case scenario--They appear to collect the bike and you give them their money back,just don't spend it[monies already paid] when you sell the bike second time around.
From CAB
If you are in possession of another person’s goods you can sell them if they remain uncollected, as long as:-
the original owner is responsible for collecting the goods. The goods cannot be sold if it is your responsibility to return them; and
any money received from the sale is returned to the original owner or, if this is not possible, kept on account for them. The owner only loses their right to the money after six years; and
you follow the correct procedure.
Looks like a bit of a minefield especially as it was for export. If it was ebay then you may be able to get advice from them, otherwise I'd contact CAB
Typical CAB only giving out half the information. The main sticking point in this scenario then is the fact the money is no longer there?
dirtydog
27-05-10, 01:40 PM
Well the money is there kind of, just in the shape of a focus st170
How about selling it again? Leave the cash in the bank for when he finally contacts again to say he wants to pick it up. At least you wont have the worry of having to look after it for god knows when.
Well the money is there kind of, just in the shape of a focus st170
Typical CAB only giving out half the information. The main sticking point in this scenario then is the fact the money is no longer there?
As I understand it, it is only the proceeds from a resale that belong to the new owner, not from the original sale. But I wouldn't take my word for it, I'd get some proper advice from somebody who knows what they are talking about :D
Dicky Ticker
27-05-10, 01:44 PM
The money may not be but the bike is
Re-sell bike and bank the money
SEND A REGISTERED LETTER OF YOUR INTENTIONS TO THE ADDRESS YOU HAVE KEEPING A COPY ON FILE.Giving them 28days to either finalise the deal or forfeit
I take it the person wants the bike out of their care/garage
Biker Biggles
27-05-10, 01:45 PM
Its pretty much unsellable without paperwork though.And any police or HPI checks would show it residing abroad somewhere,leaving the seller with some explaining to do.
plowsie
27-05-10, 01:48 PM
So, the question is...Can I borrow the bike for the weekend or what? :lol:
Dicky Ticker
27-05-10, 01:56 PM
Obviously a letter to the DVLA explaining the circumstances of failing to export should be sufficient to obtain a V5c as it is the same name as it was registered with and bring the records back in line with regard to HPI checks
I think a phone call to the DVLA would be worthwhile.
I think a phone call to the DVLA would be worthwhile.
+1
I think this is a must - then you know where you stand legally etc..
-Ralph-
27-05-10, 05:23 PM
You've sold the bike and taken the money, if you want to do this legally, you don't have legal title to sell it again.
You need to follow the correct procedure to repossess the bike, as SimesB suggests, go talk to the CAB.
I think you probably could start charging reasonable storage fees and backdate them. It would cost him about 100 quid a month to get a self store type lock-up to put it in.
You can't get done for what you have written in a letter anyway, so long as you haven't backed it up with action, so scare him into coming and getting the bike. Write him an email saying that you have found another buyer for the bike and if he does not collect the bike within the next 14 days, you will sell the bike again and charge him storage fees equal to the value of the bike and keep the money he has paid you as a storage fee. Whether he thinks you can legally do it or not is irrelevant, he will think he either has to collect the bike pronto or fight you in what to him is a foreign court in order to get his money back.
You write to the new owner and inform him that he has 14 days to arrange collection of the motorcycle or it will be parked on the road and left there. Explain that as it is untaxed and uninsured the police have the right to impound it and he will be liable for any charges incurred because of that. Also warn him that as you have no locks to put on the bike it will only be secured on the steering lock and you are unable to hold yourself responsible if it should be stolen.
See how fast he moves then
-Ralph-
27-05-10, 06:54 PM
You write to the new owner and inform him that he has 14 days to arrange collection of the motorcycle or it will be parked on the road and left there. Explain that as it is untaxed and uninsured the police have the right to impound it and he will be liable for any charges incurred because of that. Also warn him that as you have no locks to put on the bike it will only be secured on the steering lock and you are unable to hold yourself responsible if it should be stolen.
See how fast he moves then
That's the best idea yet!
Here is the scenario
. Have 1 key but no V5 what can you do? anyone want to buy a bike with no V5?
You say you have 1 key... So Im guessing you sent him the key and the V5? If this person has one key, the V5 and your address... This isn't good as you may come home to find a broken door and no bike.
-Ralph-
27-05-10, 06:57 PM
You say you have 1 key... So Im guessing you sent him the key and the V5? If this person has one key, the V5 and your address... This isn't good as you may come home to find a broken door and no bike.
Well at least one problem would be solved.
You write to the new owner and inform him that he has 14 days to arrange collection of the motorcycle or it will be parked on the road and left there. Explain that as it is untaxed and uninsured the police have the right to impound it and he will be liable for any charges incurred because of that. Also warn him that as you have no locks to put on the bike it will only be secured on the steering lock and you are unable to hold yourself responsible if it should be stolen.
See how fast he moves then
That's the best idea yet!
Except I think you have a duty of care over the bike until it is collected/otherwise disposed of.
You say you have 1 key... So Im guessing you sent him the key and the V5? If this person has one key, the V5 and your address... This isn't good as you may come home to find a broken door and no bike.
he has paid for it, he can come and get it whenever he wants, just dont know when/if he is going to come and get it. untaxed and uninsured on my driveway, chained to other bikes
-Ralph-
27-05-10, 07:33 PM
Except I think you have a duty of care over the bike until it is collected/otherwise disposed of.
For how long? Are they expected to keep it forever? And is this duty of care written in law since it's a private sale and they are not a retailer or dealer?
Even if they do have a duty of care, they only have to do what is reasonable, so if they have not had any room in the garage since getting the new car, and it's a danger to their daughter if left parked in the back garden, then the driveway is the only place for it.
For how long? Are they expected to keep it forever? And is this duty of care written in law since it's a private sale and they are not a retailer or dealer?
That's why I said to speak to CAB cos I don't know what is considered "reasonable". :confused:
-Ralph-
27-05-10, 07:45 PM
I'd just leave it out to get nicked and claim you left the garage door open for two seconds while you were cleaning the car, but went to the toilet, and when you came back the bike was gone.
dirtydog
27-05-10, 09:08 PM
Right this is what has happened with the bike...
Back in November I sold the Tornado through eBay to a buyer in the Netherlands. I had previuosly had emails and PM's from the buyer through the Benelli forum offering to buy the bike but the money he was offering was less than I wanted etc). I was happy to take justa deposit and hold on to the bike for a couple of weeks while he arranged a boat to come and get it but he offered me half the money and for me to send him the V5 (which I filled out correctly to permanently export the bike) and one of the keys and alarm fob. When he got the key and V5 he then paid the remainder of the money.
He said he will be over before Xmas to pick it up but because of the snow we had he couldn't make it which was fair enough.
He then said his van had broken down and was waiting for parts for it and would be here to pick it up towards the end of january. Said van reapir is taking longer than expected and would be here mid February.
On 10th Feb I got an email from him saying that he cant make it in feb and he is abroad for all of March but he will be here the first week in April.
Since then (Feb 10th) I have sent a few emails to him but have had no reply to them.
I wouldn't feel right about just dumping the bike outside or anything like that
-Ralph-
27-05-10, 09:20 PM
Sold via ebay contact them and ask them what the deal is.
Maybe the guy has kicked the bucket! Maybe he's in jail?
gruntygiggles
27-05-10, 09:20 PM
Right this is what has happened with the bike...
Back in November I sold the Tornado through eBay to a buyer in the Netherlands. I had previuosly had emails and PM's from the buyer through the Benelli forum offering to buy the bike but the money he was offering was less than I wanted etc). I was happy to take justa deposit and hold on to the bike for a couple of weeks while he arranged a boat to come and get it but he offered me half the money and for me to send him the V5 (which I filled out correctly to permanently export the bike) and one of the keys and alarm fob. When he got the key and V5 he then paid the remainder of the money.
He said he will be over before Xmas to pick it up but because of the snow we had he couldn't make it which was fair enough.
He then said his van had broken down and was waiting for parts for it and would be here to pick it up towards the end of january. Said van reapir is taking longer than expected and would be here mid February.
On 10th Feb I got an email from him saying that he cant make it in feb and he is abroad for all of March but he will be here the first week in April.
Since then (Feb 10th) I have sent a few emails to him but have had no reply to them.
I wouldn't feel right about just dumping the bike outside or anything like that
Not point Speculating any further and I agree DD that it's not a good idea to do anything with the bike.
Just call the DVLA....they are the people with the answers....possibly CAB, but they are not the authority here...the DVLA is. :-)
-Ralph-
27-05-10, 09:22 PM
DVLA don't determine who owns the bike, only who it's registered to.
gruntygiggles
27-05-10, 09:45 PM
DVLA don't determine who owns the bike, only who it's registered to.
I know....but they will know what the score is regarding when it can be registered back to DD or Kit Kat. They will also be able to give info on what else may need to be done.
charge him £10 per day charges in Garage and storage fees...
:0) just an option I would consider....
and after reading all of this thread...
email him every day for 14 day telling him he has 14 days to collect or it will be left on the street...
tell coppers you found a bike in your garage and after 90 day you can keep it... or something like that :0)
And the last scenario, he comes in the middle of the night, 'steals' the bike and then contacts you a few days later stating he is coming to pick up the bike at the weekend. You then have to tell him that his motorcycle was stolen last week. Where would you go from there?
-Ralph-
28-05-10, 07:29 AM
And the last scenario, he comes in the middle of the night, 'steals' the bike and then contacts you a few days later stating he is coming to pick up the bike at the weekend. You then have to tell him that his motorcycle was stolen last week. Where would you go from there?
You'd tell him it was stolen, you'd tell him to report it to the police, and you'd tell him to claim off his insurance. It's his bike, he's paid for it in full. If my bike got stolen whilst in your garage, it wouldn't be you I had to claim off would it.
You'd tell him it was stolen, you'd tell him to report it to the police, and you'd tell him to claim off his insurance. It's his bike, he's paid for it in full. If my bike got stolen whilst in your garage, it wouldn't be you I had to claim off would it.
Fair point.
CheGuevara
28-05-10, 01:09 PM
Back in November I sold the Tornado
I had no idea this thread was about a Benelli! If you get tired of storing it I will happily look after it for you for free :D
dirtydog
28-05-10, 06:26 PM
Well tonight I've actually had a reply to my emails! He'll be here either next weekend or the weekend after to collect the RS.
-Ralph-
28-05-10, 08:44 PM
Well tonight I've actually had a reply to my emails! He'll be here either next weekend or the weekend after to collect the RS.
Maybe he reads the forum.
Except I think you have a duty of care over the bike until it is collected/otherwise disposed of.
"Duty of care" is another one of those PC phrases dreamed up by the lefty tree-hugging liberals to pass the buck for their own short-comings and in order to allow them to get away with stuff that would normally see them getting a stern talking to at the very least.
Your 'duty of care' ends when someone starts taking the p1ss. That's when they stop being someone you 'care' about and they start becoming a bloody liability. You give them fair warning to get their own house in order and when they fail to respond you leave them to their own devices... simple really.
davepreston
29-05-10, 12:13 AM
they are coming to collect , brilliant
now inform them of the decency fee's
id say a pint a day should cover it
gruntygiggles
29-05-10, 07:24 AM
Just a thought, but maybe it would be worth sending an email, very nice one thanking them for updating you, but also saying that you'll be forced to start charging a storage fee of say, £10 a week (way cheaper than commercial storage) from the date of the second weekend he gave you.
Keep it really polite, explain that it's in the way and you are having to work around it while it is with you....whatever...but it might give him the motivation to actually turn up...not keep you waiting at home for another weekend or two.
???
I ma sitting at work and have just read this whole thread and totally agree with CheGuevara (http://forums.sv650.org/member.php?u=10372) if someone had said it was a Tornado I would of been mre than happy to help i would of put it in my bedroom if if it meant getting it out of your way
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