View Full Version : SV wet front plug syndrome
sKiTz-0
09-06-10, 07:03 PM
Hi all,
Back as a full time biker after a couple of years in a car due to my old banger going to the great scrapyard in the sky!
I had my first wet riding day in a couple of years yesterday, and my first since I moved from a GS500 up to an SV650.
I have a K3 model and love it dearly. However, after a good soaking and making my way home from work, 14 mile journey, it started cutting out and running on one cylinder. I managed to nurse it home for the last part of the journey, spluttering all the way, and had to take the train to work and back today (very expensive and takes ages) so am keen to sort my bike out os it can handle a bit of rain!!
After some googling today and letting her dry out in the garage overnight I read about the wet plug syndrome. And armed with a can of WD40 I managed to dry out all around the front plug, the drain hole and the HT lead. Took her out for a test drive and she's fine.
It's looking dry tomorrow, so I should be ok for that journey, and then I have a long weekend off work for my birthday, so I have 4 days to play with to sort something more permanent out.
I don't want to go buying another car if I can get by on my bike as I don't like sitting in traffic, and my SV is WAY more fun than sitting in a cage.
Has anyone here made any mods to help with the wet plug syndrome? I was wondering fi there was anything I could do to stop this from happening again every time it rains. If I can't sort it then relying on my bike (Being both in the UK AND Manchester, probably the rainiest place here) is pretty unfeasable.
Please, if anyone has any ideas or experience with this, could you share your expertise with me.
Thanks in advance for any replies.
sKiTz
husky03
09-06-10, 07:07 PM
fender extender and silicone grease round front plug
sKiTz-0
09-06-10, 07:23 PM
Cheers husky.
Forgot to mention that it didn't have a fenda extenda. Anybody got one that needs a good home? :)
Would one be able to pick up silicone grease from Halfords?
sKiTz-0
09-06-10, 07:26 PM
On first search I see suggestions of Maplins, or vaseline
my curvy sv was suffering from water on the front cylinder as its my daily commuter, rain or shine, fitted a fender extender couple of weeks back, and in the rain this week its been fine.
Well worth fitting, although personally i do think they look a little unsightly, but had to be done.
fender extandas look well pants, but needs must
AmigaNut
19-06-10, 03:04 PM
A pyramid Fender Extenda as mentioned above, silicone is another temp fix I believe.
yorkie_chris
19-06-10, 03:32 PM
Splurge any grease you want (maybe not copperslip though) over the plug cap to effect a temporary fix.
fender extender and silicone grease round front plug
Or not And. You don't need to do both, just one will do. Both is belts and braces.
andrewsmith
19-06-10, 08:14 PM
£15 at your local dealers, most carry the sv ones because of the wet plug issue
yorkie_chris
19-06-10, 08:43 PM
Or not And. You don't need to do both, just one will do. Both is belts and braces.
I do both.
andrewsmith
19-06-10, 08:54 PM
acf50'd my front plug and it seems to do the trick
ive got the fender extender with no grease on the plug, its never missed a beat in two years and ive seen some horrendous downpours and some big lakes on the roads i use.
fender extandas look well pants, but needs must
Not if you have one like mine ;)
Stuck on, filled and sprayed. Just looks like a longer mud guard. :p
Kept the water out going through Tissington Ford last month.
sKiTz-0
20-06-10, 01:42 PM
Cheers guys for all the replies. Anyone know where I can get my hands on a cheap fenda extenda? All the shops I've seen online seem a bit pricey - M&P, Wemoto etc
AmigaNut
20-06-10, 03:52 PM
£20 incl p&p seems the going rate I am afraid.
Biker Biggles
20-06-10, 03:57 PM
I do both.
Yes.The fender extenda reduces the origin of the problem by holding back the jet of water off the front wheel,while the silicon is there because you will always get some water finding its way to an exposed area like the top of the front cylinder.
yorkie_chris
20-06-10, 04:16 PM
Thing is the grease is so easy to apply, it seems like a foolish idea not to.
...and if you get a tube of dielectric grease you'll find all sorts of uses for it, all the electrical connectors for example, battery terminals.......
I picked up a tube of Dow Corning DC4 off fleabay for much cheapness, half usual price, keep an eye out for it or visit your nearest Maplins for their own brand. Farnell do DC4 cheap but there's the p&p.....
think how much it cost/ inconvenienced you the last time your bike brokedown, recovering the bike/pushing it, taking the bus/car, trying to sort out the problem...etc, etc then 20 squid don't seem that bad.. imo
the pyramid fenda extenda on their website is £16.99
yorkie_chris
21-06-10, 08:30 AM
think how much it cost/ inconvenienced you the last time your bike brokedown, recovering the bike/pushing it, taking the bus/car, trying to sort out the problem...etc, etc then 20 squid don't seem that bad.. imo
I am fairly sure someone has actually been killed when the cylinder suddenly cut back in and spat them off.
No brainer. Fit something FFS!
sKiTz-0
21-06-10, 04:03 PM
£20 is bargain.
The ones I'd seen were more like £50 I'm sure!!!
http://www.pyramid-plastics.co.uk/catalog/images/05020.jpg
CLICK HERE (http://www.pyramid-plastics.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_95_155&products_id=98)
I've had a recurring case of wet front plug syndrome and it seems to get to the rear pot too sometimes :(. I've ordered a fenda extenda and bought a pot of the grease recommended by my local bike shop, but it's not silicone based, as recommended by an earlier poster in this thread. It is Silkolene Pro RG2 which I've found out to be lithium-complex-based.
Is it suitable for use as 'dielectric grease' or not? Would I be better off using vaseline or buying something else?
I don't want to smother my HT caps in RG2 if it will be counter-productive and I can't find any info on its dielectric properties.
vasalene the cap and a small can of wd40 under the seat.
vasalene the cap and a small can of wd40 under the seat.
Thanks for the quick reply, Bibio.
I had to call out the recovery service (insurance policy perk) yesterday. The guy was great: It took him an hour of WD40, plugs out and in several times and finally a battery booster to get me going again, but he persevered rather than just taking me to the bike shop. I've got the day off today so really want to get all the preventative measures I can in place today. :)
squirt some wd40 up the drain hole on the front cylinder... make sure the drain hole is clear
you might want to check the drain holes in the bottom of the barrels to make sure they are clear and not clogged with muck. old metal coat hanger straighten out works.
I did them with pipe cleaners as I'd previously seen recommended somewhere. They were clear, but there was an accumulation of water around the front plug even so. I'll try shooting some WD40 up them as well.
andrewsmith
11-08-10, 12:13 PM
a slightly better spray is acf 50, it takes a lot to wash off and isnt conductive
Pah I have just ordered a fender extender, after coping without one in the wet before I thought, great my bike is fine without one! woohoo!!
Hmm but on a run out this week got caught in a really bad downpour ( even my underwear was wet! yuk!) and the bike started to cough and splutter! oh crap thinks I as its struggling to get up the hills and i'm now coming to a junction where I have to stop. Tried to keep engine revving but nah - it cut out, waved the car behind me past and managed to get bike started going again.. phew!!
Was passing the Sun Inn just as rain was easing off so me and mate decided to stop there and dry us and bikes off and have a brew, rather than carry on with lumpy engine.
Did the trick cause 2 cups of tea later the bike fired up and after about a 30 seconds of lumpiness it was running fine again. So headed back home, put the bike away, threw leathers into the dryer and ordered a fender extender lol!!
Will try the Vaseline thing too!! cheers for all the tips!
yorkie_chris
11-08-10, 02:40 PM
a slightly better spray is acf 50, it takes a lot to wash off and isnt conductive
But it's not a water dispersant is it?
Which I would argue, for dispersing water, a water dispersant is ideal.
But it's not a water dispersant is it?
Which I would argue, for dispersing water, a water dispersant is ideal.
I agree. I would go as far as suggesting that GT85 would be a better dispersant than WD40 dependant on application used for. WD40 being 'Water Dispersant' and 40 days, being how long the application should be effective for.
I *think* GT85's name is based on a similar convention... 'General Teflon' or something, 85 days.
It certainly doesn't dry out as quickly as WD40 does. GT85 is a far better product IMHO.
So...where to squirt the WD40/GT85 (apart from the obvious 'around the sparkplug and HT cap')?
I'm bedeviled by pesky H20 at the moment, and even after Vaseline on the plugs, it still coughs and fails on front (I think) cylinder after getting soaked. Seems worst when I lean the bike over after coasting into a corner and then open the throttle to pick the bike up and power out. Worst case of this led to me dropping the bike last winter when it totally died on a hairpin, and since then I've started resorting to blipping the throttle with the clutch in as I'm leant over approaching the apex of sharp corners to be sure it will pull when I need it to. It ran like a dream for the first few weeks after I had major service (new plugs, throttle body balancing, TPS adjustment etc) but has got much worse again since the first ride in the wet.
I've gotta admit that I'm not well up on what all the little electrical components on modern bikes* do or where they all are on the SV. I can find the coils and assume they're worth a squirt, but is there anywhere else I should be targeting?
*my last good 'learning about new stuff' brain cell :smt120 died too many years ago.
Fender extender solves problems with from wet plug, end of.
I've been through fords and flooded roads up to the ends of the forks and not had an issue, and have ridden the worst of weather we've had in the last two years and as per my comments in the other thread you posted on last night regarding front wet plug problem, the only time I've ever had an issues was a brief period when I removed the fender extender.
FWIW, I use lithium grease around the plug and cap rather than petroleum jelly, as it's drip point temperature is far better.
yorkie_chris
15-08-10, 11:52 AM
Pretty much any grease around the top of the cap will work. I use silicon grease. I also put a blob of it in the drain hole.
Al_Sweetman
26-08-10, 04:44 PM
Fender extender solves problems with from wet plug, end of.
I've been through fords and flooded roads up to the ends of the forks and not had an issue, and have ridden the worst of weather we've had in the last two years and as per my comments in the other thread you posted on last night regarding front wet plug problem, the only time I've ever had an issues was a brief period when I removed the fender extender.
FWIW, I use lithium grease around the plug and cap rather than petroleum jelly, as it's drip point temperature is far better.
Have to say, it doesn't - as last nights ride proved (Witney -> Newbury on one cyl). I've had the F-Extender for the last two years (120+ miles / day) , and many times I've changed the plugs I've tried running without added grease - and each time without fail it cuts out.
Grease is a must imho, and I'm even thinking about trying to fashion an additional cover that fits above the front cylinder well - if I recall someone did one of these a few years back.
Biker Biggles
26-08-10, 08:55 PM
If fenda extenda and grease doesnt sort it Id check the front HT lead.Does that short out when it gets wet?
Al_Sweetman
26-08-10, 09:11 PM
If fenda extenda and grease doesnt sort it Id check the front HT lead.Does that short out when it gets wet?
Biggles - you may be onto something there - how would I be able to tell? When I was on the way back yesterday I stopped outside the Didcot junction of the A34 and tried sticking my hand up to the top of the front cylinder to make sure the boot was all the way down and ended up getting lots of tingles in my fingers... about 600 electric shocks / minute in fact...
It seemed to be coming from the cylinder casing as I didn't manage to get my hand up to the boot before it started shocking me - what would that suggest?
FWIW, I'm not running with grease at the mo (yet!)
mcgrimes
26-08-10, 09:17 PM
I agree. I would go as far as suggesting that GT85 would be a better dispersant than WD40 dependant on application used for. WD40 being 'Water Dispersant' and 40 days, being how long the application should be effective for.
WD 40 = Water Dispersant 40th Attempt?
Shorocky
03-09-10, 12:21 PM
I just wanted to say thanks for all the advice on this post -
my bike did exactly this on the way home last week, so this morning starting it up, when it did the same thing, I removed the front plug, soaked up all the water in it with a bit of kitchen roll (all i had to hand!), sprayed some WD40 on it, and now it works fine. I'll be buying an extenda, but thanks all for the temporary fix at least!
Cheers :)
Vindaloo
06-09-10, 04:46 PM
I've also had friends with SVs still having problems with the front spark even with a fender extender. I think the grease is the best, simple solution, though probably still not the ideal permanent solution.
I'm not having the problem, but the thought of it ruins my rides whenever it starts raining.
Grease is a must imho, and I'm even thinking about trying to fashion an additional cover that fits above the front cylinder well - if I recall someone did one of these a few years back.
Any update on that? I think the fender extender looks horrendous (only available colour is black) and don't like the idea of drilling holes either.
I'd thought the same thing about a cover the other day ... perhaps a rubber flap or cone that simply attaches to the spark plug lead? Total cost a few pennies. I noticed the (old) Fazer has something not dissimilar but can't find an image.
martin15s
06-09-10, 05:01 PM
take a look at this:- http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt31/mattman912/cover.jpg
Vindaloo
06-09-10, 05:31 PM
That'll do it. A bit more involved than the rubber flap I was thinking of. I reckon even if you stopped 50% of the water getting in it'd do the trick.
I'd have thought someone would have machined and sold something by now. Just something similar that attaches to the radiator mounting would do perfectly (not sure where exactly this one bolts to on a pointy).
I may have a play myself over the next couple of days with something very makeshift. A little worried it could cause other issues (perhaps overheating?) though. My messing with bikes usually causes unwanted side-effects :-)
Adrian
Al_Sweetman
07-09-10, 03:37 PM
That looks v similar to what I saw many moons ago.
I think it was attached via the horn lug on the left hand side of the rad, but not entirely sure.
I dropped the rad off when I changed the plugs last and splurged silicone around where the boot sits against the head after fitting the boot - v heavy rain yesterday (dual-C down to 40) and didn't miss a beat
Now I've just got to decide whether I need to re-skim the inside of the cylinder/bore as I think some crap fell in when changing the plugs... Sounds a bit rough.
Al_Sweetman
08-09-10, 11:03 AM
Update
---
I've managed to find the old thread from '08 showing mods by our very won DizzyBlonde and a thread from svriders showing what some yanks did
Very interesting.
http://forums.sv650.org/archive/index.php/t-120017.html
http://forum.svrider.com/archive/index.php/t-27878.html
(highlights)
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b381/k2svpete/SVfrontplug.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Symptom1/fr.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb45/loubi650/2007_11040019-1.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb45/loubi650/cylguard2.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb45/loubi650/cylguard.jpg
Vindaloo
08-09-10, 01:59 PM
Cheers. Bearing in mind the ease of machining something like that, why is nobody flogging bits of slightly bent metal with a screw-hole to do the job?
Surely it's going to be much more effective and doesn't make the front fender look mismatched.
Adrian
My pyramid fenda extenda finally arrived, but I can't bring myself to fit it because
a) it looks so cheap and tacky
b) The silicone grease I've packed around the plug cap seems to be doing the job perfectly. I've had several hundred miles of riding in the rain since and not missed a beat.
I'll only reconsider if I get further problems. Thanks for the tip.
barwel1992
19-09-10, 04:21 PM
i have done a fair bit of rain riding with no problems, my plug cap is greased and that seems to work
Shorocky
20-09-10, 06:42 PM
I had exactly this problem a few weeks ago, took both plugs out and dried them off, but the bike still doesn't seem to be running properly.
It just lacks power now and seems to be running 'roughly'. I've read other posts on here where the bike is running rough and cutting out, or the revs are dropping, but mine isn't doing that, it just seems underpowered and a bit under the weather!
The garage thinks it might be the front coil, but it seems quite a coincidence to me since it's happened just after the wet plug problem - any one have any ideas?
Thanks very much!
Rach
tactcom7
20-09-10, 07:01 PM
I have 2 sets of coils for sale.... :)
Si
Shorocky
20-09-10, 07:07 PM
Thanks - for what model and how much!?
I'm not sure how to test if the current ones are not working? I can check with an Ohmmeter as described in the Haynes manual - but will that definitely show me if one isn't working?
tactcom7
20-09-10, 07:13 PM
2001 curvy say £20 a pair?
I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell you how to test them properly. :)
Shorocky
20-09-10, 07:18 PM
Thanks for the thought - but mine's 2004 pointy :(
hopefully you're right and advice will follow! :)
tactcom7
20-09-10, 07:32 PM
Ah k not to worry, hope you get it sorted soon :)
I had exactly this problem a few weeks ago, took both plugs out and dried them off, but the bike still doesn't seem to be running properly.
It just lacks power now and seems to be running 'roughly'. I've read other posts on here where the bike is running rough and cutting out, or the revs are dropping, but mine isn't doing that, it just seems underpowered and a bit under the weather!
Rach
Maybe try a new set of plugs. After they've been shorting out for a while they never seem to be quite as good as new. Also, you say you dried them out, but check the caps as well and pack with silicone grease. I spent ages with mine running a bit rough, always hoping that one more good run in the dry would sort it out, but never quite did until I got a new set of plugs.
Al_Sweetman
21-09-10, 06:49 AM
Maybe try a new set of plugs. After they've been shorting out for a while they never seem to be quite as good as new. Also, you say you dried them out, but check the caps as well and pack with silicone grease. I spent ages with mine running a bit rough, always hoping that one more good run in the dry would sort it out, but never quite did until I got a new set of plugs.
+1 - canny remember who on here recommended it but that's the "perceived wisdom" to try - depending on how long it was on one cylinder for... Mine was 60 miles (commute on way home) so I decided my plug should be changed; annoying really seeing as I'd only changed it 200 miles ago!
Cheers,
Al.
PS WD-40 = (If you trust wiki) Water Displacement 40th Attempt, and my vote is for GT-85 as it just smells fantastic and reminds me of when I raced mountain bikes.
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