View Full Version : Stoned to death
Many of you will be aware of the furore in the media about a 43 yr old Iranian woman about to be stoned to death.
I had thought of posting the link but the pictures of past stonings are just too barbaric, and I'll leave that to your individual choice.
Buried up to their chest then stoned. The size of the stones are selected to cause maximum pain without killing too soon.
How can another human being do such a thing? I just can't get my head around the why?
There's sick, and there's SICK.
Speedy Claire
08-07-10, 02:49 PM
Yep I totally agree Brian and as a member of Amnesty International it disgusts me that this barbaric act continues. There`s a hell of a lot of public stonings going on around the world that don`t make the press and the majority of these "sentences" are on women.
Speedy Claire
08-07-10, 02:56 PM
Oh and it`s down to religion and Islamic tradition!!!!
Jayneflakes
08-07-10, 03:15 PM
Another Amnesty member here, it is things like that this made me join to start with.
Here is the Amnesty Link for anyone interested. (http://www.amnesty.org)
Dicky Ticker
08-07-10, 03:19 PM
Their country their culture,that's why they get away with so much in the western world------Civilisation versus Barbarism
As anybody who has worked in the Middle East knows
GeneticBubble
08-07-10, 03:37 PM
"If the convicted person manages to free themselves from the hole, the death sentence is commuted."
Thats sick seems almost as if there making a game of it.
punyXpress
08-07-10, 04:19 PM
Sharia Law - was coming here any day soon, but perhaps the ConDems have put it off for a while.
Isn't Allah the most merciful? Which is why they hang gay men and chop peoples' hands off.
Bunch of savages.
SoulKiss
08-07-10, 04:34 PM
Maybe someone needs to start a Campaign to Rnd Womens Sufferage...
Oh wait, someone did... (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Campaign-to-end-womens-suffrage/317757342473#!/pages/Campaign-to-end-womens-suffrage/317757342473?v=wall)
Oh and it`s down to religion and Islamic tradition!!!!
lmao if people think stoning was first mentioned in muslim holy book.
Try most the ones before it as well. Including one that begins with B.
davepreston
08-07-10, 08:39 PM
so let me get this straight they put someone in a hole and give them class c drugs and see if they can get out of the hole
punyXpress
08-07-10, 08:51 PM
So, what does Muddi say about this? :
http://forums.sv650.org/image.php?u=13154&dateline=1278372461 (http://forums.sv650.org/member.php?u=13154)
Why only ' the boys ' ?
so let me get this straight they put someone in a hole and give them class c drugs and see if they can get out of the hole
now that would be a way to go:smt033
Biker Biggles
08-07-10, 10:53 PM
lmao if people think stoning was first mentioned in muslim holy book.
Try most the ones before it as well. Including one that begins with B.
The present day issue is that the other religeons mostly grew out this sort of barbarism many generations ago.Nowadays it does seem to be very much confined to countries whose names start with the word Islamic.
There is absolutely no excuse for barbarism like this whatever the pretext or whatever religion.
There is absolutely no excuse for barbarism like this whatever the pretext or whatever religion.
+1
*Shudder*
barwel1992
09-07-10, 01:06 AM
i know it makes me as bad as them but i wouldn't mind dropping a tone of bricks on the the people that think its ok to do that sort of thing .....
Milky Bar Kid
09-07-10, 02:10 AM
I heard glimpses of this on the news earlier today and if I am honest, I turned over because I hate the thought of it so much I didn't want to listen.
I generally don't think other countries should interfere in the laws and traditions of others but this really sickens me. Fair enough having death sentences but to purposely cause as much pain and suffering as possible (for HAVING AN AFFAIR!!!) for something which has probably no evidence is horrendous.
The present day issue is that the other religeons mostly grew out this sort of barbarism many generations ago.Nowadays it does seem to be very much confined to countries whose names start with the word Islamic.
There is absolutely no excuse for barbarism like this whatever the pretext or whatever religion.
Not denying any of that. Was just responding to the 'traditions' comment.
Speedy Claire
09-07-10, 06:18 AM
lmao if people think stoning was first mentioned in muslim holy book.
Try most the ones before it as well. Including one that begins with B.
I believe the OP referred to the forthcoming stoning of this poor woman and his question was how can people do this sort of thing to another human being? and the answer is religion and Islamic law. He didn`t ask which religion first used stoning as a method of punishment so you can stop laughing now :D
lmao if people think stoning was first mentioned in muslim holy book.
Try most the ones before it as well. Including one that begins with B.
That may be the case, but over the last couple of thousand years other religions seem to have moved with the times and accepted that barbaric practices are just that, barbaric. Islam appears to be stuck in the dark ages.
If anyone thinks this kind of thing is limited to one or two rebel Islamic nations then think again. Saudi Arabia were still stoning people openly in Jeddah in 1993, as witnessed by my ex-wife from a hotel window when she was working out there as a nurse. There have been numerous reports of other public stonings in more recent years. This is despite claiming that stoning had been outlawed some years previously. But, Saudi, due to their strategically handy location, being politically very powerful in international terms and also one of the friendlier oil-rich nations, can get away with anything it likes without the UK or US governments saying a thing.
This country will get Sharia law over my dead body. I won't sit back and let that happen without a bitter fight.
Speedy Claire
09-07-10, 06:55 AM
Very sadly public stoning is also a common event in Somalia. For exmaple:
Dec 2009 a man accused of adultery was stoned to death
Nov 2009 a 20 year old woman was stoned to death by Somali Islamists, accused of adultery after giving birth to a still-born baby
Oct 2008 a 13 year old girl publically tortured and stoned to death after she claimed she had been raped.
Is unbelievable that this kind of barbarity still goes on around the world.
The Beeb reports that this is no longer happening
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/10565103.stm
it is disgusting that in this day and age this sort of stuff still goes on. As for celebrities and other governments gettings involved, I dont agree with that, the woman is from that country, knows the rules and the risks. If it was a tourist then fair enough get involved.
it is disgusting that in this day and age this sort of stuff still goes on. As for celebrities and other governments gettings involved, I dont agree with that, the woman is from that country, knows the rules and the risks. If it was a tourist then fair enough get involved.
I agree with the idea of self determination, and non-interference but just where do you draw the line?
Should no one have been brought to trial for the genocide in Germany, the former Yugoslavia, Angola, Rwanda and so on? There is nothing wrong with providing 'guidance' to developing countries, and if that means sanctions to stop horrendous human rights breaches then so be it.
I agree with the idea of self determination, and non-interference but just where do you draw the line?
Should no one have been brought to trial for the genocide in Germany, the former Yugoslavia, Angola, Rwanda and so on? There is nothing wrong with providing 'guidance' to developing countries, and if that means sanctions to stop horrendous human rights breaches then so be it.
yeah but who exactly are we to dictate to anothe country with completely different types of laws, cultures and the way in people see things. Why should we tell them we don't like what they are doing-and impose our way of thinking.
Its almost like asking them to interfere in one of our judicial cases - Face it countries are never going to see eye to eye on this.
Lozzo stated that sharia law over his dead body - so we don't like when someone else thinks about doing to our own culture just a tad hypocritical??
My own opinion is that I do think its barabaric and think its wrong but its their country. (there still a lot of barbaric practises going on in UK let sort out or own before we go gung-ho to other places)
Sid Squid
09-07-10, 08:51 AM
There is absolutely no excuse for barbarism like this whatever the pretext or whatever religion.
+ 1 more.
Vile.
This country will get Sharia law over my dead body. I won't sit back and let that happen without a bitter fight.
I think you'd find yourself with a lot of backup.
But... there's a huge difference between actual Islam (the religion) and what actually goes on in these Islamic countries. Much of it is cultural and not religious - however the two are often indistiguishable as what is "taught" (read forced) as Islam isn't the same as what enlightened western Muslims think of it. Most of the time it just seems to be used as a way of controlling the uneducated masses.
yeah but who exactly are we to dictate to anothe country with completely different types of laws, cultures and the way in people see things. Why should we tell them we don't like what they are doing-and impose our way of thinking.
Its almost like asking them to interfere in one of our judicial cases - Face it countries are never going to see eye to eye on this.
Lozzo stated that sharia law over his dead body - so we don't like when someone else thinks about doing to our own culture just a tad hypocritical??
My own opinion is that I do think its barabaric and think its wrong but its their country. (there still a lot of barbaric practises going on in UK let sort out or own before we go gung-ho to other places)
I'm not suggesting we should be looking to change their laws or culture, just their sentencing.
There isn't a country in the world that doesn't have something that may appear wrong in the eyes of other nations, and we certainly have our own problems but if someone doesn't speak out what will change?
The Iranian Embassy has announced that she will no longer be stoned, and I guess that's down to international pressure. That doesn't mean she isn't guilty of a crime in her country, and I don't have a problem with that irrespective of whether I think that law is archaic. As has been said, their laws and their country.
http://www.garnersclassics.com/pics/brian/crowd.jpg
yorkie_chris
09-07-10, 10:50 AM
It brings back the old debate of whether what is "right" is an absolute or dependent on your current reference frame.
I would not agree "their laws, their country". Of course people being imprisoned in Vichy France was fine, after all, it was "their" country, right?
I am with Lozzo, Sharia law over my dead body. A foreign culture trying to influence our own with their barbaric ways. Strange actually, probably the very thing a mad savage of an ayatollah would say about us trying to civilise their country...
And just to add some humour;
http://forums.sv650.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=7317&d=1277583197
Specialone
09-07-10, 11:02 AM
I agree, you abide by the laws of this land or fook off, shove your own laws up your arris sideways.
Makes me smile actually, they have all this barbaric crap in their own countries then come here and make a big song and dance over the slightest little inconvenience.
We cant even stop and search them for fear of rascist accusations.
They openly admit they wanna take over the world, not in this country while there's a drop of blood in my body.
yorkie_chris
09-07-10, 11:05 AM
Just to reality check before we lock and load and light the torches... "they" are about 3 highly vocal nutters and I would guess the vast majority of subjects in muslim lands are normal people just controlled by fear.
But for your mentalist hate-filled clerics, I'd put them down without a second thought... live by the sword, get shot by someone who doesn't :)
Specialone
09-07-10, 11:14 AM
Just to reality check before we lock and load and light the torches... "they" are about 3 highly vocal nutters and I would guess the vast majority of subjects in muslim lands are normal people just controlled by fear.
But for your mentalist hate-filled clerics, I'd put them down without a second thought... live by the sword, get shot by someone who doesn't :)
Actually they muslims i have come into contact with have been no different to you and i, they dont condone the actions of the extremists, wether they agree with all the stuff secretly is another matter, but on the whole i take people as i find them, but as the asian areas in brum are expanding rapidly, its is starting to get like we're the minority and when that happens we wont be able to control what laws they follow.
Until we stop the clerics preaching untrue crap to the masses, we will never be able to intergrate peacefully.
yorkie_chris
09-07-10, 11:21 AM
I do credit most people with the common sense to decide what is true and what is lunacy. Just like I wouldn't expect people to consider me as being in the IRA just because I was raised a catholic...
I don't know what the solution is, but anything to stop the formation of fully asian areas would be a step in the right direction.
Milky Bar Kid
09-07-10, 11:48 AM
Very sadly public stoning is also a common event in Somalia. For exmaple:
Dec 2009 a man accused of adultery was stoned to death
Nov 2009 a 20 year old woman was stoned to death by Somali Islamists, accused of adultery after giving birth to a still-born baby
Oct 2008 a 13 year old girl publically tortured and stoned to death after she claimed she had been raped.
Is unbelievable that this kind of barbarity still goes on around the world.
it is disgusting that in this day and age this sort of stuff still goes on. As for celebrities and other governments gettings involved, I dont agree with that, the woman is from that country, knows the rules and the risks. If it was a tourist then fair enough get involved.
yeah but who exactly are we to dictate to anothe country with completely different types of laws, cultures and the way in people see things. Why should we tell them we don't like what they are doing-and impose our way of thinking.
Its almost like asking them to interfere in one of our judicial cases - Face it countries are never going to see eye to eye on this.
Lozzo stated that sharia law over his dead body - so we don't like when someone else thinks about doing to our own culture just a tad hypocritical??
My own opinion is that I do think its barabaric and think its wrong but its their country. (there still a lot of barbaric practises going on in UK let sort out or own before we go gung-ho to other places)
KK, Q, whilst generally I would agree with that sentiment, read Speedy Claires post above.
With the reference to "they know the rules and the risks", erm, a woman has a still born baby and they believe that means shes had an affair so they stone her to death? OK, so how was that her taking a risk or breaking the rules?
Or the 13 yr old girl who reported she had been raped?
Perhaps if these things were carried out after a proper, fair trial then yeh, fair enough, you pays your money, you takes your chances but to stone a 13 year old girl because she had been raped that is, I actually cannot find the words to express my feelings at that.
yorkie_chris
09-07-10, 11:55 AM
yeah but who exactly are we to dictate to anothe country with completely different types of laws, cultures and the way in people see things. Why should we tell them we don't like what they are doing-and impose our way of thinking.
We are civilised people.
KK, Q, whilst generally I would agree with that sentiment, read Speedy Claires post above.
With the reference to "they know the rules and the risks", erm, a woman has a still born baby and they believe that means shes had an affair so they stone her to death? OK, so how was that her taking a risk or breaking the rules?
Or the 13 yr old girl who reported she had been raped?
Perhaps if these things were carried out after a proper, fair trial then yeh, fair enough, you pays your money, you takes your chances but to stone a 13 year old girl because she had been raped that is, I actually cannot find the words to express my feelings at that.
It's just wrong... you can't even call them animals because there isn't even any reason for it? insanity? Perhaps. It's like the chaos depicted in apocalypse now, unhinged... a little bit of hell seeping into this world.
KK, Q, whilst generally I would agree with that sentiment, read Speedy Claires post above.
With the reference to "they know the rules and the risks", erm, a woman has a still born baby and they believe that means shes had an affair so they stone her to death? OK, so how was that her taking a risk or breaking the rules?
Or the 13 yr old girl who reported she had been raped?
Perhaps if these things were carried out after a proper, fair trial then yeh, fair enough, you pays your money, you takes your chances but to stone a 13 year old girl because she had been raped that is, I actually cannot find the words to express my feelings at that.
there are always going to be cases like this. Im not saying stoning is a good idea, what Im saying is this current case has been all over news and all it has been going on about is that this celebrity and that celebrity are wanting to fight this and pressure on other governments to get involved. It has nothing to do with celebrities or other governments. Amnestity and other international groups, I can see them getting involved and highlighting cases like this but it is not up to some bored film star to decide how sentences are carried out in other countries with such different ideas and cultures.
Just send in Team America.
they sort everything out.
Milky Bar Kid
09-07-10, 12:02 PM
It's just wrong... you can't even call them animals because there isn't even any reason for it? insanity? Perhaps. It's like the chaos depicted in apocalypse now, unhinged... a little bit of hell seeping into this world.
Exactly, it's almost just like an excuse to torture people, not a punishment.
Milky Bar Kid
09-07-10, 12:06 PM
there are always going to be cases like this. Im not saying stoning is a good idea, what Im saying is this current case has been all over news and all it has been going on about is that this celebrity and that celebrity are wanting to fight this and pressure on other governments to get involved. It has nothing to do with celebrities or other governments. Amnestity and other international groups, I can see them getting involved and highlighting cases like this but it is not up to some bored film star to decide how sentences are carried out in other countries with such different ideas and cultures.
But, and I haven't read up on this because as I said earlier, I don't want to know the details, normally in cases like this, it is the groups like Amnesty International who highlight it and THEN celebs get involved and then the Govt. That's how these things get changed. Without the support of the celebs and the govt and the general public, there would be nothing Amnesty would be able to do about these things!
It's a two way street.
Exactly, it's almost just like an excuse to torture people, not a punishment.
No matter how wrong, or evil or bad it is.
Its another countries culture, and who are we as a western country to go in and change their ways. No matter how bad it is.
As I joked, we're not team America, we don't like it so we'll invade.
Im sure they think we're just as bad, but at the other end of the spectrum. They are over-sentanced, and they probably laugh their head off at our lame under sentancing.
Nuke them all.
Milky Bar Kid
09-07-10, 01:27 PM
No matter how wrong, or evil or bad it is.
Its another countries culture, and who are we as a western country to go in and change their ways. No matter how bad it is.
As I joked, we're not team America, we don't like it so we'll invade.
Im sure they think we're just as bad, but at the other end of the spectrum. They are over-sentanced, and they probably laugh their head off at our lame under sentancing.
Nuke them all.
Oh well, we should just get rid of the EHRC then too eh?? Who cares if a 13 yr old girl gets stoned to death because she was raped, hell mend her for living in that country :rolleyes:
I believe the OP referred to the forthcoming stoning of this poor woman and his question was how can people do this sort of thing to another human being? and the answer is religion and Islamic law. He didn`t ask which religion first used stoning as a method of punishment so you can stop laughing now :D
actually, I was referring to your comment as you can see from my original post, not the op's
Oh and it`s down to religion and Islamic tradition!!!!
This one, particularly the use of the word tradition.
That may be the case, but over the last couple of thousand years other religions seem to have moved with the times and accepted that barbaric practices are just that, barbaric. Islam appears to be stuck in the dark ages.
If anyone thinks this kind of thing is limited to one or two rebel Islamic nations then think again. Saudi Arabia were still stoning people openly in Jeddah in 1993, as witnessed by my ex-wife from a hotel window when she was working out there as a nurse. There have been numerous reports of other public stonings in more recent years. This is despite claiming that stoning had been outlawed some years previously. But, Saudi, due to their strategically handy location, being politically very powerful in international terms and also one of the friendlier oil-rich nations, can get away with anything it likes without the UK or US governments saying a thing.
This country will get Sharia law over my dead body. I won't sit back and let that happen without a bitter fight.
A lot of sweeping statements on here, this being on of them. You really have to think about the number of muslim countries there are, (ie Morrocco to Indonesia, and most in between) and how many of them actually stone their citizens. You mention Saudi, but that is a country run by Wahaabi's, generally viewed as an extremist sect by the rest in that region. Everyone knows they're a corrupt bunch anyway, who enjoy the fruits of their land without sharing it with the people. As far as I'm concerned, Saudi Arabia is a rogue state (like Somalia and Iran). The only difference is they have something that is beneficial to other countries, so they can get away with their barbaric local executions. It doesn't mean this represents the actions and beliefs of every other country in that region.
Very sadly public stoning is also a common event in Somalia. For exmaple:
Dec 2009 a man accused of adultery was stoned to death
Nov 2009 a 20 year old woman was stoned to death by Somali Islamists, accused of adultery after giving birth to a still-born baby
Oct 2008 a 13 year old girl publically tortured and stoned to death after she claimed she had been raped.
Is unbelievable that this kind of barbarity still goes on around the world.
I don't even know what religion this comes under, because I'm pretty sure being 'accused' of adultery and being raped are not stoning offences in any of the old bibilical books, so I think labelling these action's as Muslim is exactly the same as labelling KKK lynchings as Christian. Just because something is done in the name of something/or by people with a religious label, it does not rightly earn an attribution to that name, especially when it is only a minority.
The majority of citizens of these countries don't like the circumstances in which they are living. The countries mentioned (Saudi,Iran,Somalia) are run by people who shouldn't be there. The people in power in these countries are corrupt individuals who aim to strengthen their grip on power under the name of religion to maintain their position. People need to realise that a corrupt government of these 'savage' nations is not their equivalent to the pope, or whoever.
Personally, I think the most 'savage' country in the middle east is perhaps the one that is receiving the most financial aid than any other country in the world, and doesn't really care where they drop their highly precisioned bombs, but I guess that's something else. Can't think of any other middle eastern country that's killed more women or kids. I prefer to judge nations by these stats, and not some stoning case that comes up in the news every now and again probably cos one senior idiot in a a stripy uniform thought 'why not it'll show the rest'.
Pedrosa
09-07-10, 03:12 PM
Religion hey? Greatest invention that man ever came up with! pah.
What infuriates me is the poor woman has already been punished with 99 lashes, has spent the last 5 years in prison and now they want to stone her1 All for the same offence.Do these people not know whn enough is enough?
yeah but who exactly are we to dictate to anothe country with completely different types of laws, cultures and the way in people see things. Why should we tell them we don't like what they are doing-and impose our way of thinking.
Its almost like asking them to interfere in one of our judicial cases - Face it countries are never going to see eye to eye on this.
Lozzo stated that sharia law over his dead body - so we don't like when someone else thinks about doing to our own culture just a tad hypocritical??
My own opinion is that I do think its barabaric and think its wrong but its their country. (there still a lot of barbaric practises going on in UK let sort out or own before we go gung-ho to other places)
OMG i was going to post something but i saw this and for once i find myself agreeing with Q... WTF i must go and whip myself with some olive branches or something.
their country, their laws who are we to tell them what to do. i think its sick and barbarrick but i dont stay in an islamic country. besides its not that long ago we had issues with Ireland and the condom....
Speedy Claire
09-07-10, 03:33 PM
actually, I was referring to your comment as you can see from my original post, not the op's
This one, particularly the use of the word tradition.
A lot of sweeping statements on here, this being on of them
Yes I`m fully aware that you were having a dig at my thread.
I think you need to read the posts properly rather than think you have read and understood what someone is saying. The original poster asked the question how can human beings do this to another human being ie. sentence this woman to death by a public stoning? I answered that the reason is religion and tradition... now, please tell me where in my answer I have not given accurate information?
Is it not the case that it is the culture of this country to sentence people to death by stoning for certain crimes? Are religion and tradition not important components of what dictates a particular country`s culture?
Whats the difference between stoning a woman to death in the middle east and texas executing prisoners who should be in mental hospitals ? nothing, its just we always think we know better in the west thats all, mans inhumamity to man with a bit of good old religion thrown in for good measure.
Do these people not know when enough is enough?
Seems not. Bunch of feckin savages. I don't care about religion and tradition and all the rest of it, respect for human life is far more important, and I believe that the rest of the world is entitled to comment on blatantly inhumane practices. A few posts on here suggest that the woman knew the risks, but there appears to have been fabricated evidence and forced confessions. Let's leave that aside, frankly I find it sad when people say that just because someone knows the risks somehow justifies the results according to that country's culture and traditions. Iran hangs gay men, so does being gay and having sex with another man justify a public hanging, even though the man knows the risks?
Of course not. We should and must speak out against such atrocities.
Speedy Claire
09-07-10, 05:36 PM
And I`d add that this poor woman has already received punishment for her so called "crime". She was convicted of having an illicit relationship and received 99 lashes for this, she then had to undergo a separate trial for adultery within marriage and the penalty for this was death.
For the stoning women are buried up to their chest whereas men are only buried to their waist. Women are constantly discriminated against before the law and courts, the weight attached to one man`s evidence is equivalent to that of two women. Discrimination against women in other aspects of their lives also renders them more susceptible to conviction for adultery ie. Women are allowed only one sexual partner in life whereas men are allowed four permanent wives and an unlimited number of temporary wives.
These women don`t choose be born in this country... they are born and brought up in that country through no fault of their own. They are unable to leave due to parental control, enforced marriages, lack of money and lack of education. They don`t agree with the cruelty that goes on but see it as their lot. So I don`t always agree with the statement "when you live in a country you abide by their rules" as these women are not always there by choice.
Lozzo stated that sharia law over his dead body - so we don't like when someone else thinks about doing to our own culture just a tad hypocritical??
I'm 100% against the UK and USA imposing our ideals on other cultures, and at the same time I am 100% against other cultures moving into this country and trying to change the way we live the British way of life. We have a justice system that mostly works, and it doesn't involve barbaric acts such as stoning a 13 year old girl because she claims to have been raped. It'll be a very sad day when this country takes a huge step backwards past the middle ages and into the kind of culture that we'd live in under Sharia Law.
I may be accused of being racist by some, but I can assure everyone I'm not. I won't come out with the "some of my best friends are black/asian/whatever" because at the moment it's just my current girlfriend and one of my daughter's boyfriend who are. I am a lover of the way we live our life in this country, which I maintain is the best country in the world that anyone can choose to live in, and I'm proud to have been born here (even if my roots are in Malta). If someone comes here and doesn't like the way we live, doesn't like the laws we live under, doesn't like that young ladies can wear revealing clothes and have equality with men then they have two choices.
Choice 1. Accept it as a part of how the British live and integrate into British society whilst maintaining your own sense of national or cultural identity. Many thousands of people from all over the globe have done this and are living happy lives here with their grandchildren regarding themselves as British people. My family come under this category.
Choice 2. You had the choice to enter this country, you have the choice to leave if you don't like it, but don't expect us to bend over backwards to accept your way of life as our own and don't for a moment think we will even think about legally adopting practices we regard as barbaric, mysogonistic or otherwise radical.
If you want to live here, learn to live legally and morally like the majority of the indigenous population.
Yes I`m fully aware that you were having a dig at my thread.
I think you need to read the posts properly rather than think you have read and understood what someone is saying. The original poster asked the question how can human beings do this to another human being ie. sentence this woman to death by a public stoning? I answered that the reason is religion and tradition... now, please tell me where in my answer I have not given accurate information?
Is it not the case that it is the culture of this country to sentence people to death by stoning for certain crimes? Are religion and tradition not important components of what dictates a particular country`s culture?
Yeh I'm not denying any of that. I guess I was just making the point that it is not just one religions tradition - not having a dig at anything in particular, perhaps read too much into it.
Lozzo, there are like 7 or 8 countries that have sharia law amongst the 40+ muslim countries there are in the whole world. Are you seriously worried that Britain would be number 9 on that list? The threat to this countries judicial system becoming Sharia is probably near to zero. You really don't have to worry about putting up a 'bitter fight' anytime soon.
Milky Bar Kid
10-07-10, 02:30 AM
Whats the difference between stoning a woman to death in the middle east and texas executing prisoners who should be in mental hospitals ? nothing, its just we always think we know better in the west thats all, mans inhumamity to man with a bit of good old religion thrown in for good measure.
Erm, maybe perhaps the fct that they make it a game, and that the persons getting stoned are bruied (either to waist or neck) and then they throw stones, not causing instant death, but stones selected to cause a huge amount of pain and suffering.
Perhaps if it was a case that they just dropped a giant rock on someones head, killing them instantly, your attempt at making a point would be relevant but as this is clearly torturing the person and THEN killing them, then it is ENTIRELY different from executions which take places in numerous other countries in the world.
Lozzo, there are like 7 or 8 countries that have sharia law amongst the 40+ muslim countries there are in the whole world. Are you seriously worried that Britain would be number 9 on that list? The threat to this countries judicial system becoming Sharia is probably near to zero. You really don't have to worry about putting up a 'bitter fight' anytime soon.
See the other thread about Sharia Law and then tell me that isn't a backhanded attempt to get it recognised and then eased into our justice system. Up front attempts have already been made, and the way this country works it'll be the minority i.e. The radical Islamic community, who'll get their way eventually. If we all thought "Nah, that'll never happen here" then it's almost certain that it would. Radical groups rely on the apathy of the British public to get their own way because no-one can be bothered to make a fuss or stick their head over the parapet and say something, and where Islam is concerned most people are too afraid to do anything because of possible reprisals.
I accept that the vast majority of Muslim people living in Britain are fine people who work hard and live good and decent lives, but there's always an idiot Islamic cleric living in the dark ages who'll ruin it for everyone, and unfortunately the crowd usually follow the leaders.
I recall that a judge even suggested that there was room for this Sharia claptrap in British law, for example in family disputes.
I'm with Lozzo on this, thin end of the wedge.
The day we accept laws based on brutality as a norm is the day I pack my bags.
Erm, maybe perhaps the fct that they make it a game, and that the persons getting stoned are bruied (either to waist or neck) and then they throw stones, not causing instant death, but stones selected to cause a huge amount of pain and suffering.
Perhaps if it was a case that they just dropped a giant rock on someones head, killing them instantly, your attempt at making a point would be relevant but as this is clearly torturing the person and THEN killing them, then it is ENTIRELY different from executions which take places in numerous other countries in the world.
Yeah you,re absolutely right of course, I just meant that killing someone in the name of what is a law of religous belief is wrong, sorry for attempting to voice an opinion, Ill stfu now ;)
See the other thread about Sharia Law and then tell me that isn't a backhanded attempt to get it recognised and then eased into our justice system. Up front attempts have already been made, and the way this country works it'll be the minority i.e. The radical Islamic community, who'll get their way eventually. If we all thought "Nah, that'll never happen here" then it's almost certain that it would. Radical groups rely on the apathy of the British public to get their own way because no-one can be bothered to make a fuss or stick their head over the parapet and say something, and where Islam is concerned most people are too afraid to do anything because of possible reprisals.
But this probably happens in every muslim country, and like I said only 7 or so actually have Sharia law out of the 40+ countries there are. Just because some people are trying it here, the threat is not genuine. It just won't happen. There is more likelihood of the BNP getting into power, and no-ones worried about that becoming a reality.
Gonna quote soulkiss from the other thread as he's put this well
As you say its an arbitration system, which I believe, requires consent and acceptance of the procedure, unlike a court of law where its a legal entity.
He's right, quoting the Times here
Under the act, the sharia courts are classified as arbitration tribunals. The rulings of arbitration tribunals are binding in law, provided that both parties in the dispute agree to give it the power to rule on their case.
As this is the case, I have absolutely no fear that it will not become more than that. If let's assume it does become a 'like it or lump it' set of laws, it can only realistically be applied to muslim citizens of this country. But then how would that work? Would a muslim woman get nicked if she's seen to have an affair by the good old local PC Joe Bloggs and handed over to the Sharia Judges?! If this country came to that, then I'm sure you'd see a lot more muslims leaving this country than coming here.
The 'Sharia law' one day taking over this countries whole judicial system is nothing short of a paranoid myth. It simply will not happen. If Egypt, Azerbaijan and other muslim countries can hold out, I'm sure the British government and Brits are pretty safe.
but there's always an idiot Islamic cleric living in the dark ages who'll ruin it for everyone, and unfortunately the crowd usually follow the leaders.
Crowd follow the leaders? Define leaders?
Muslim nut job with a hook who is brought into the spotlight? Some random head of some random mosque somewhere in East London or Bradford? The only reason these people are even noticed is because the press gives them their time of day.
It's slightly presumptious to
a: assume these islamic clerics living in the dark ages are anything near true leaders
b. that the crowd follow these nutjobs.
I'm with Lozzo on this.
I would add though, although I agree that all aspects of stoning are barbaric, if someone were to rape or murder my daughter, they'd be subject to a fate much worse.
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