View Full Version : Fish Hill...who else has messed it up?
gruntygiggles
11-07-10, 05:26 PM
Clue is in the title, was taken there today by Beenz, Stretchie and Squirrel_Hunter. I had a warning last night that even the talented Mr. S-Hunter had nearly come a cropper there going over the lines into the opposite lane and so I went with all intentions of not being too stupid.
I was stupid!
We went down first and the two sharp bends didn't seem all too bad. On the way up, I was behind Beenz and usually feel quite comfortable following him. I did knock off the pace a little as I know full well I cannot do what he does. Started, all felt fine, I turned in too early though and so it sharpened up on me. Now....When I decide to give something a go on the bike, I ONLY do it when I can see there is no oncoming traffic just incase things go wrong and I cross the lines. I had checked, so pushed on...that's when it tightened up and I dipped in a bit more making the rear wheel do a mjor wobble, I'm very surprised I didn't highside....I just sat the bike up to go over the lines (as I knew and could still see it was clear) to get me out of the wobble, then throttled off and all was ok. Scraped my toe slider on one of the wobbles, but thankfully only just and peg didn't go down.
Did it a second time after a little break and forgot that there are two tight lefthanders :rolleyes:
First was way better, got a much better line, although not perfect and it felt amazing. Forgot the second one tightened up as well and was a little hot in that one, but held it together, stayed on the right side of the road and so was ok, but...
Fish Hill has done the best thing for my riding so far...reminded me I don't have enough skill yet to do what I want to do on the bike. I now have much respect for anyone that can do it well!
So...who else has had had fun on Fish Hill and who has had close calls there???
gruntygiggles
11-07-10, 05:29 PM
Ha...if Beenz sees this thread he'll be able to tell you how his heart almost exploded when he saw the wobble in his mirror.
I really thought I was going to come a cropper...but had a good ride home so all ok :-)
metalhead19
11-07-10, 05:32 PM
Sounds like a very scary moment, glad you saved it alright though.
I went round the outside of some bloke in a mini once. That was fun!
gruntygiggles
11-07-10, 05:36 PM
Sounds like a very scary moment, glad you saved it alright though.
It was scary when I got up the top, we pulled over and I reflected on it a bit. I thought it felt pretty bad but figured it always feels worse than it actually is....until Beenz appeared to be shaking almost as much as me. He was convinced it was going.
Fish hill LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!
Never done it on my bike but done it loads pillion on drew's bike.
First time he did fish hill ever was with me on the back, and the second bend caught him out as well.
If I would had seen your post in the megathread, I would have got Drew to get the bike out and met you somewhere in the cotswolds
gruntygiggles
11-07-10, 05:38 PM
I went round the outside of some bloke in a mini once. That was fun!
Haha...yeah, the downhill 270 degree constant radius in Wales was fun on Friday. I was banked over all the way around, loving it.....there was a people carrier in lane 1 just before it joins the dual carriageway. I could either throttle off and have to brake or throttle on, dip in and go round.....so I did the latter. The drivers face was a treat :smt040
gruntygiggles
11-07-10, 05:39 PM
Fish hill LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!
Never done it on my bike but done it loads pillion on drew's bike.
First time he did fish hill ever was with me on the back, and the second bend caught him out as well.
If I would had seen your post in the megathread, I would have got Drew to get the bike out and met you somewhere in the cotswolds
Oh no....what a shame. No matter though, will be out with you next weekend :-)
Oh no....what a shame. No matter though, will be out with you next weekend :-)
true can't wait :D
metalhead19
11-07-10, 05:43 PM
It was scary when I got up the top, we pulled over and I reflected on it a bit. I thought it felt pretty bad but figured it always feels worse than it actually is....until Beenz appeared to be shaking almost as much as me. He was convinced it was going.
Its always scary watching someone else have a big moment. Were you riding your new ninja or on your BB? Spose the moments you have help you learn.
Cymraeg_Atodeg
11-07-10, 05:43 PM
These sounds like very simular corners to a set that is on the A44, I almost came a cropper on them today, when it tightened I just pressed the rear brake slightly and counter-steered to avoid going stright on.
Glad you are OK Cheryl, but, as you have learned and I am learning too, it takes time to learn these bikes well, lol
gruntygiggles
11-07-10, 05:53 PM
Its always scary watching someone else have a big moment. Were you riding your new ninja or on your BB? Spose the moments you have help you learn.
Yeah, I was on the Kwak...done 1000 miles on it already and loving it. Dan took the BB. I agree too, the "moments" I suppose mean you are getting more comfortable pushing it, BUT, also act as a stark reminder that you should not run before you can walk!
These sounds like very simular corners to a set that is on the A44, I almost came a cropper on them today, when it tightened I just pressed the rear brake slightly and counter-steered to avoid going stright on.
Glad you are OK Cheryl, but, as you have learned and I am learning too, it takes time to learn these bikes well, lol
I have not seen bends like these two on Fish Hill on any other road yet, purely for how quickly they sharpen up on you, exaggerated by being uphill.
Not sure if I've done the A44.
Clue is in the title, was taken there today by Beenz, Stretchie and Squirrel_Hunter. I had a warning last night that even the talented Mr. S-Hunter had nearly come a cropper there going over the lines into the opposite lane and so I went with all intentions of not being too stupid.
I was stupid!
We went down first and the two sharp bends didn't seem all too bad. On the way up, I was behind Beenz and usually feel quite comfortable following him. I did knock off the pace a little as I know full well I cannot do what he does. Started, all felt fine, I turned in too early though and so it sharpened up on me. Now....When I decide to give something a go on the bike, I ONLY do it when I can see there is no oncoming traffic just incase things go wrong and I cross the lines. I had checked, so pushed on...that's when it tightened up and I dipped in a bit more making the rear wheel do a mjor wobble, I'm very surprised I didn't highside....I just sat the bike up to go over the lines (as I knew and could still see it was clear) to get me out of the wobble, then throttled off and all was ok. Scraped my toe slider on one of the wobbles, but thankfully only just and peg didn't go down.
Did it a second time after a little break and forgot that there are two tight lefthanders :rolleyes:
First was way better, got a much better line, although not perfect and it felt amazing. Forgot the second one tightened up as well and was a little hot in that one, but held it together, stayed on the right side of the road and so was ok, but...
Fish Hill has done the best thing for my riding so far...reminded me I don't have enough skill yet to do what I want to do on the bike. I now have much respect for anyone that can do it well!
So...who else has had had fun on Fish Hill and who has had close calls there???
I am so mad at you. You had me worried that you'd crashed that beautiful ZX6R :o
Please don't scare me like that again.
Glad you're still learning ;)
gruntygiggles
11-07-10, 05:56 PM
Haha Stu...I am mad at me even though I didn't crash. Yes, I knew I had the room to go into the other lane if needed, I will not push my limits if I can't see a clear road both directions in front of me, BUT...I still should have knocked a bit of pace of on entry.
I know Fish Hill well but it's caught me out a couple of times, it's a very technical bit of road. As you say, on the way down the bends don't seem so tight but uphill it's like riding a completely different road! There used to be a load of dust / gravel pulled on to the road by wagons leaving that yard at the top of the hill too- haven't been down there for a while so don't know if it's still like that?
ravingdavis
11-07-10, 06:07 PM
I've done fish hill a few times on my SV and and a test ride of a daytona 675. The daytona eats fish hill beautifully but the second time heading up it I saw the aftermath of a fella that had overcooked the penultimate righthander and wrecked a very nice 90's CBR6.
Fish hill is a lot of fun but I was prewarned about the tightening bend up top.
I've done the hill a couple of times and it a fantastic bit of road! I haven't come up a cropper on it, yet... but I have been following a mate when he had a bit of a brown trouser moment doing the same thing you did on the same corner. That corner can take you a bit unaware.
I'm a bit cautious of going too many times as I'll get over confident and probably crash.
Cheers Pete :stupid:. At least there was no oncoming traffic. Wide entry to the tightening left for Teebles next time...
gruntygiggles
11-07-10, 06:42 PM
Cheers Pete :stupid:. At least there was no oncoming traffic. Wide entry to the tightening left for Teebles next time...
For sure...I got the wide entry, just too much pace too soon and should have turned a little later than I did. Oh well, we live and learn :-)
fatneck
11-07-10, 07:08 PM
Ive come a cropper on Fish Hill before, crashed and broke my thumb. Have done it before and since, its such an awesome bit of road. The second left hander on the way up is a beauty aint it! GOT to trust your tyres going up there.
gruntygiggles
11-07-10, 07:22 PM
Ive come a cropper on Fish Hill before, crashed and broke my thumb. Have done it before and since, its such an awesome bit of road. The second left hander on the way up is a beauty aint it! GOT to trust your tyres going up there.
They saved me the second time. They are fab tyres, but I think I'll wait a while before doing it again and when I do, do a few runs to get the tyres really grippy.
fatneck
11-07-10, 07:31 PM
Crashed on the evil BT-014s, but now have the awesome BT-016s. What have you got?
And Fish Hill is the A44, I think someone mentioned that earlier.
I took some brand new Avon Storm 2 Ultras there to scrub them in, I had BT-016s and hated them, had about 20mm chicken strips on them, by the end of the day i'd used all of the storms! I love them!
gruntygiggles
11-07-10, 08:47 PM
Crashed on the evil BT-014s, but now have the awesome BT-016s. What have you got?
And Fish Hill is the A44, I think someone mentioned that earlier.
I had Brand new Pirelli Diablos on it when I picked it up last Saturday. Done 1000 miles on them now so very nicely scrubbed in. I really like them in the dry. In the wet they need to prve themselves to me.
As for Fish Hill....I bet it's what Atodeg is talking about then. I didn't realise it was the A44....I was just being taken to Fish Hill....lol:smt040
I went up it today on the SV, the top left hander is a tricky little number to be sure, I always treat it with great respect, very easy to go into it too hot.
gruntygiggles
11-07-10, 11:00 PM
I went up it today on the SV, the top left hander is a tricky little number to be sure, I always treat it with great respect, very easy to go into it too hot.
Oooh, what time were you there? I think I remember seeing a yellow SV and a silver one a bit later on. No idea what time we were there though. Probably around 3-4pm.
I was on the way up around 11am I think, then turned off and through Chipping Camden and off to the Fosse.
Drew Carey
12-07-10, 08:40 AM
Hehe.....Fish Hill.....Love that little strech.
As Lily said, I've done it bucket loads now, I find all the bends really fun......but the last left has got me a few times. However, I have found the trick to it....
Disclaimer - This works for me, so don't follow my advice!!!
As you approach the first part of the left hander at a speed you would ordinarily do for the kind of visability / corner it is, I immediately shave 15mph off my entrance speed. The don't tip in, hug the white line past the first apex and then as soon as you reach the second, tip in and accelerate out of the top.
Works everytime for me, but like I said, ridden it shed loads....its not so much fun when there is snow at the side of the road though!!! :D
Cheryl - Glad you were ok, sounds like it was a bum clenching moment!!! :D
You've just reminded me of a little detour TO take enroute to the AR... :D
Ha...if Beenz sees this thread he'll be able to tell you how his heart almost exploded when he saw the wobble in his mirror.
I really thought I was going to come a cropper...but had a good ride home so all ok :-)
I'm always a tad concerned about showing new peeps Fish Hill, normally I waive the new bod past so they can experience it first hand but after seeing Squirrel Hunter turn an odd shade of green at the top mumbling mutterings about following crash markings I thought OK this time I'll take it easier on the Bandit GT. However clocking by mirrors frequently I could see GG had apexed too early on the first left hander and knew the run wide would happen. Thankly the chap upstairs left the other lane free for a recovery. When we got to the top I was more shakey than GG.
The second run I followed, first left hander was fine, a later apex and far better line, approach to the second one which is slightly tighter was a tad hot, fortunately the apex was later than the first run so not quite such a worry that time.
All round a pretty good day out, ride out and back was steady with a spot of spirit in places.
yorkie_chris
12-07-10, 09:24 AM
To be honest I never see the fuss with "killer" bits of road*... decreasing radius turns are all part of the fun... sh*tting yourself when you didn't set one up right happens to everyone.
*Same with cat + fiddle, snake pass, all that lot. Come around here, see some really interesting roads. Gravel, sheep, boulders, dry stone walls and a ravine for runoff!
I'm with YC. Those sort of bends are really good for two very specific reasons.
1. Remind you to plan your bend based on what you can see. If you can't see it's not tightening then there's every chance it will!
2. Assuming you come out of it unscathed it will often give you loads of confidence that you can lean you bike a lot further than you thought you could and get it back up again. Then if ever you mess up point 1 again you get to chuck it in a bit harder rather than panic, roll-off or grab a handful of brake and have a whole manner of nasty things happen to you.
Main thing is you got away with it, learned something from it and hopefully will have another go at it again soon.
Is this the hill that drops down into the middle of the Cotswolds?
gruntygiggles
12-07-10, 01:42 PM
Agree with you both. Learning is what us newbies need to keep doing...well, it's what everyone needs to keep doing I suppose. I felt sorry for Beenz. He said that was the best line he had ever taken around there but he can't remember it because he was having a heart attack watching my wobble.
I'll probably go do it again before the AR and do it a few times at a nice steady pace and concentrate on seeing my line and getting it smooth. Speed and fun can come later in their own time. I'd rather be a skilled rider than a fast rider if you know what I mean.
It's going to sound terribly IAMish but going faster is an unfortunate side effect of better planning and smoothness. If you concentrate on the plan and the smoothness, the speed bit just sort of happens. If you concentrate on the speed bit it can all get a bit "over exciting" at times.
Sounds like your heads in the right place though.
yorkie_chris
12-07-10, 02:04 PM
Oh god I'm agreeing with an IAM-ist.
If your obs would have been better, you would have hit the right apex and been on the power loads earlier.
Practice that, not how to carry every last mph of entry speed into a specific corner. When you get it right, you will do the same pace on a new road or an old one.
gruntygiggles
12-07-10, 02:08 PM
Oh god I'm agreeing with an IAM-ist.
If your obs would have been better, you would have hit the right apex and been on the power loads earlier.
Practice that, not how to carry every last mph of entry speed into a specific corner. When you get it right, you will do the same pace on a new road or an old one.
Yep...that's the annoying part....my lines and turn in points are usually good. I just got carried away and tried to do too much.
Ah well, sometimes a bit of a scare is a great way to learn lol
You have a ninja gg??
gruntygiggles
12-07-10, 02:34 PM
Ah well, sometimes a bit of a scare is a great way to learn lol
You have a ninja gg??
Yep, picked it up last saturday...
http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=154187
done a thousand miles over 4 days already :-)
Yep, picked it up last saturday...
http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=154187
done a thousand miles over 4 days already :-)
congrats, cant see the pics tho...is it a ninja 6?
I used to live in Moreton in Marsh so have been up and down Fish Hill hundreds of times in a car yet it still seems a bit intimidating on a bike.
Dunno if many people know this but the picnic area at the top of fish hill is an infamous dogging site!!! Do be careful if turning round there. Bit of local knowledge for you there. LOL
Next time you are over that way give me a shout.
gruntygiggles
12-07-10, 05:24 PM
congrats, cant see the pics tho...is it a ninja 6?
Yep, 1998 ZX6R and it's mint :-)
I used to live in Moreton in Marsh so have been up and down Fish Hill hundreds of times in a car yet it still seems a bit intimidating on a bike.
Dunno if many people know this but the picnic area at the top of fish hill is an infamous dogging site!!! Do be careful if turning round there. Bit of local knowledge for you there. LOL
Next time you are over that way give me a shout.
Will let you know ;-)
fatneck
12-07-10, 05:27 PM
I went for a sneaky slash at that picnic site last time I went up Fish Hill. Oops!
You've just reminded me of a little detour TO take enroute to the AR... :D
A little more info on location and we could all have the pleasure.
A little more info on location and we could all have the pleasure.
Google Fish hill, Broadway. It should come up on the A44 between Evesham and Bourton on the water, i tried to do a map link but i buggered it up :D
i tried to do a map link but i buggered it up :D
You need to click the link box on the right of the page
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Fish+Hill,+Broadway,+Worcestershire+WR12+7,+Unit ed+Kingdom&sll=52.288223,-1.585489&sspn=0.009319,0.01929&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FTPwGQMdWgrk_w&split=0&hq=&hnear=Fish+Hill,+Broadway,+Worcestershire+WR12+7,+ United+Kingdom&z=15
You need to click the link box on the right of the page
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Fish+Hill,+Broadway,+Worcestershire+WR12+7,+Unit ed+Kingdom&sll=52.288223,-1.585489&sspn=0.009319,0.01929&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FTPwGQMdWgrk_w&split=0&hq=&hnear=Fish+Hill,+Broadway,+Worcestershire+WR12+7,+ United+Kingdom&z=15
In my defense M'lud, it's bloody early :rolleyes:
But that's the place.
I've only done Fish Hill on a bike incapable of doing more than 90mph that handled like a pregnant hippo on rollerskates - a 175,000 mile old 1983 Honda CB250RS that was held together with promises of maintenance and dried snot.
I still did my mate on his ZRX1200 going uphill, but he's slower than a concussed sloth wading through treacle.
It was fun though, must go back on a decent handling bike with some power.
philbut
13-07-10, 10:09 AM
I love Fish Hill. had a few moments on it myself a few years back, but I've done it enough times now to know where my limits are. Still dont like going down it as much as coming up it though.
FISH HILL (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Fish+Hill,+Broadway,+Worcestershire+WR12+7,+Unit ed+Kingdom&sll=52.288223,-1.585489&sspn=0.009319,0.01929&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FTPwGQMdWgrk_w&split=0&hq=&hnear=Fish+Hill,+Broadway,+Worcestershire+WR12+7,+ United+Kingdom&z=15)
From memory I had A34 > Oxford > A44 > Evesham in my head, but it is a bit further than I remembered. However it's pretty much directly East of the AR site. So completely doable on the trip to the AR...
Google says from the top of Fish Hill to the AR site (Hay-on-Wye) via Evesham (A44), Worcester (A4440) and Hereford (A103) is 1hr55m.
From M4 (junction with A34) to AR Site > 3.5hrs... OR (for the Massive) from M40 (J8 ) it's apx 3hrs to the site.
Food for thought.
-Ralph-
13-07-10, 12:29 PM
First corner, second corner. Which two bends on fish hill are we talking about?
http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/93/00/930006_3418d5f4.jpg
The hill climbs from right to left in the pic. Coming from the right, the first left hander isn't too bad because it's not all that tight, it's 2 lanes, and visibility round the bend is good so you can plan the line. The long right is just a curve but the second right always seems a bit flat on camber to me but easy enough to plan. The tricky one is the next left hander at the top of the hill, you do have 2 lanes but it's a bit deceptive in that you can't see round it and when you think it will open out again it doesn't. Thats' my take anyway.
Plenty of youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCwwuhj1ZKY) clips
yorkie_chris
13-07-10, 12:58 PM
Quite a bendy bit of motorway that.
gruntygiggles
13-07-10, 01:01 PM
Ralph...second corner!
-Ralph-
13-07-10, 01:06 PM
The hill climbs from right to left in the pic. Coming from the right, the first left hander isn't too bad because it's not all that tight, it's 2 lanes, and visibility round the bend is good so you can plan the line. The long right is just a curve but the second right always seems a bit flat on camber to me but easy enough to plan. The tricky one is the next left hander at the top of the hill, you do have 2 lanes but it's a bit deceptive in that you can't see round it and when you think it will open out again it doesn't. Thats' my take anyway.
Plenty of youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCwwuhj1ZKY) clips
OK, ta. As you say the radius gets smaller on the first one (right to left) but you can see right through it. The last one has a wee kink right at the end of the bend where is gets slightly tighter just before the bend opens out, but would take you by surprise.
The only advice I can offer here is to train yourself to concentrate on what the vanishing point (or limit point) is doing whenever you can't see right through a bend.
It's a bend which can surprise, but if you get the obs right it shouldn't come as a surprise.
-Ralph-
13-07-10, 01:10 PM
Ralph...second corner!
You picked up the bike and went over the line, so you were on a left hand bend. Second corner, so you must have been travelling from left to right on the photo?
gruntygiggles
13-07-10, 01:12 PM
As I've said before, that's what annoyed me most...my obs are normally good for these things, but we're all guilty of messing up on that score from time to time so I'm not going to beat myself up about it!
gruntygiggles
13-07-10, 01:17 PM
You picked up the bike and went over the line, so you were on a left hand bend. Second corner, so you must have been travelling from left to right on the photo?
Nope....right to left, up the hill. the wobble and going over the line was actually the first corner, sorry, had my mind on the second run when I answered when it was the second left that I was a bit hot on...but ok.
First time, first left (right to left on the photo) I was in the outside lane, turned in too early and the rear wobbled as I apexed too early. I could have fought it, but knowing there was nothing coming the other way, I just went wide over the lines to recover stability. I wouldn't have pushed that hard if there had been oncoming traffic, so probably wouldn't have happened. Still annoyed a bit with myself because it was an almost accident that would have been 100% my fault.
gruntygiggles
13-07-10, 01:19 PM
I should clarify Ralph.....it's clear through the thread.....it's the second left hand bend. We have only been discussing the two left handers.
-Ralph-
13-07-10, 01:33 PM
Nope....right to left, up the hill. the wobble and going over the line was actually the first corner
I should clarify Ralph.....it's clear through the thread.....it's the second left hand bend
I give up and I'll get me coat. So long as you guys know which corners you're talking about that's all that matters. :shaking2:
gruntygiggles
13-07-10, 01:58 PM
I give up and I'll get me coat. So long as you guys know which corners you're talking about that's all that matters. :shaking2:
Haha, I guess if you haven't read the whole thing as we've been discussing it, it could be a tad confusing...lol.
In the picture, the road goes uphill from right to left. The first of the left handers, the big one is where I had my wobble.
The second left is the one I forgot about seconf time up...got through the first nicely as was happy about that, got to the second and had to adjust quickly, but managed it without anything going wrong...just!
-Ralph-
13-07-10, 03:59 PM
Haha, I guess if you haven't read the whole thing as we've been discussing it, it could be a tad confusing...lol.
In the picture, the road goes uphill from right to left. The first of the left handers, the big one is where I had my wobble.
The second left is the one I forgot about seconf time up...got through the first nicely as was happy about that, got to the second and had to adjust quickly, but managed it without anything going wrong...just!
:thumleft:
The penny has dropped, two corners, two "incidents" (sort of, ish).
First left hander is open if I remember correctly, so it doesn't really create a visible vanishing point (someone correct me if wrong) so it's just a case of neck back, head up, and try to look top left across the corner at the road ahead as it bends round and up ahead of you. You'll automatically adjust your speed for the tightest part of the corner. Not always easy to look where you want to go on a head down sports bike, with a twisting uphill climb.
Second left hander, what I said above about the vanishing point.
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