I.C.E (incase of emergency)

[widepants]

Just wondering how many of you carry details on you of people who should be contacted ,or any medical conditions you may have .May be handy incase you fall over in a drunken stuper after too much shandy.
Just because we may know you on here doesnt mean we even know your real name, let alone who to contact.
Mines always in my jacket pocket.

[barwel1992]

mines in my phone, there 2 or 3 number's labelled ICE 1,2,3 just in case one of them doesn't work :)

[gruntygiggles]

Yep, got I.C.E. contacts in my phone and in my jacket pocket I have details of my name, address, emergency contact details, that I am allergic to penicillin and it also has the insurance details for the bikes I am insured on, the reference number, claims phone number and recovery phone number!

[kellyjo]

Mines in my phone under ICE but in case it gets smashed in an off theres also a written copy in my purse (usually in jacket pocket).

The East Anglian Ambulance Service run a green sticker scheme whereby you keep a small card in the lining of your helmet with your ICE/ medical history on, and place a small green dot sticker on the right hand side of your helmet so in case of emergency they look at your lid and if the sticker's there they know to look for your card inside. An excellent and simple idea thought up by a group of paramedic bikers!!

[Dave20046]

I've just got my home number in my phone hopefully they'd think to look for that if they're gonna bother.

I've started considering wearing ICE dog tags recently though, seems a bit of a waste of money really.
I did have an ICE/biker info card in my wallet but took it out recently after realising it didn't have any info my driving license did (Well apart from allergies, but if they're administering me penicillin for a bike crash there's something very wrong)

Edit: all that said what actually is the point of ICE. When I crashed I was well enough to ring my mum myself and get her to stay with the bike. If I'm unconcious/dead I wouldn't be sooo (well I would) bothered about the bike and in that scenario what can they do to help? Once I'm dead the ambulance/coppers can check it out properly for the deathogram lark so it's not like my family'd never know :scratch:

[barwel1992]

hmm looks like i should consider getting a card to put im my jacket/dog tags

[metalhead19]

My ICE details are in phone under home, or diabetic details are in my wallet which rarely leaves my side.
Could always just tattoo it to me, that way i could never lose any of it

[timwilky]

Only thing that matters is in my wallet, my donor card.

In case of emergency, just get me to a hospital. anything else isn't an emergency and I will phone people as and when.

I cannot think of anything worse than being at deaths door and the bloody family turn up. If I am in a bad way ffs leave me alone.

[diamond]

I cannot think of anything worse than being at deaths door and the bloody family turn up. If I am in a bad way ffs leave me alone.

+1

[Dave20046]

are you supposed to carry your donor card Tim?

[sunny]

just ordered my Tags yesterday, as I was informed that phones / cards / purses / wallets can either be thrown from bike or person and can burn - nice cheery thoughts eh folks? Hence I ordered metal tags, in the hope that they never get used - please all stay shiny side up :p

[timwilky]

are you supposed to carry your donor card Tim?


I guess it is habit that I have always carried a donor card. I know about the new fangled register and am registered on that as well. But to me it is simple. If I am in a bad way get me to hospital ASAP so if things go tits up. At least I can be harvested whilst still fresh.

And please nobody say, "but they might not treat you because they want your bits."

[gruntygiggles]

me penicillin for a bike crash there's something very wrong)

Edit: all that said what actually is the point of ICE. When I crashed I was well enough to ring my mum myself and get her to stay with the bike. If I'm unconcious/dead I wouldn't be sooo (well I would) bothered about the bike and in that scenario what can they do to help? Once I'm dead the ambulance/coppers can check it out properly for the deathogram lark so it's not like my family'd never know :scratch:

No, but it does save the hospital staff/police fron doing all the work!



I cannot think of anything worse than being at deaths door and the bloody family turn up. If I am in a bad way ffs leave me alone.

+2...but if it was Dan, I'd want to be informed sooner rather than later.

just ordered my Tags yesterday, as I was informed that phones / cards / purses / wallets can either be thrown from bike or person and can burn -

So if you get any friction or heat....the tags will burn the details into your skin making them double useful :rolleyes:...lol ;-)

[Milky Bar Kid]

My bike is registered to my home address. Not that difficult for a cop to find out my details.

[gruntygiggles]

My bike is registered to my home address. Not that difficult for a cop to find out my details.

Good point, well made :-)

[Milky Bar Kid]

Plus I carry my ID all the time so, meh, I don't need anything else...

[widepants]

My bike is registered to my home address. Not that difficult for a cop to find out my details.
fair point.
but with alot of people turning up can you honestly say that you will know everyones real name .
what if you live alone and u trip and bump ur head ,the police may knock on your door,but only "you" know who you want to be contacted

[Dave20046]

No, but it does save the hospital staff/police fron doing all the work!

Wouldn't have thought it was more than a 10 second check :scratch:

Edit: just seen mbk's post.

[Milky Bar Kid]

fair point.
but with alot of people turning up can you honestly say that you will know everyones real name .
what if you live alone and u trip and bump ur head ,the police may knock on your door,but only "you" know who you want to be contacted

Like I said, I carry my ID with me at all times. I have 2 forms of picture ID and bank cards. Think it would be rather easy to work out my full name.

[Dave20046]

milkington barry kidd

[Milky Bar Kid]

milkington barry kidd

LOL! Correct!;)

[sunny]

So if you get any friction or heat....the tags will burn the details into your skin making them double useful :rolleyes:...lol ;-)[/QUOTE]

Yeah LOL - never thought of that one!! :p

[-Ralph-]

ICE card in my wallet (thanks Quedos) with my stepfather specifically as the first point of contact. If I've just snuffed it the last person I want telling my wife, kid and mother is a copper. No offence coppers, just think I'd rather they heard it from somebody who they know and can provide real emotional support.

[fenjer]

I carry emergency contacts in my jacket pocket, and the tank bag for the bike if I have it with me. ICE contact numbers are also listed in my phone.

My mum is listed as my initial contact with my dad second.

I am also an organ donor, but I dont have a card to carry with me.

I like the idea of the sticker dot on the helmet for ICE contact details on the inside of the lid...

[Dave20046]

I like the idea of the sticker dot on the helmet for ICE contact details on the inside of the lid...

What if they rag the lid off to check the ice details though? :scratch:

[fenjer]

What if they rag the lid off to check the ice details though? :scratch:

I doubt they would do that for the sake of finding out your name, I'm sure they'd check pockets/the registration of the bike first.

Everyone is well aware of the risks of removing someones lid in an accident (i hope!).

[Milky Bar Kid]

I doubt they would do that for the sake of finding out your name, I'm sure they'd check pockets/the registration of the bike first.

Everyone is well aware of the risks of removing someones lid in an accident (i hope!).

And I doubt some idiot who would think to take your helmet off would even be aware of the dot system. I think it's a good idea.

[Dave20046]

Everyone is well aware of the risks of removing someones lid in an accident (i hope!).
A lot aren't unfortunately! Had to correct a nurse (amongst others) before.

Yeah, hadn't heard of that until fenjer said it actually. Only one I've see was by an ambulance service down south which was a dot on your visor which indicated you carried a crash card in ya wallet.

[fenjer]

Only one I've see was by an ambulance service down south which was a dot on your visor which indicated you carried a crash card in ya wallet.

That would seem a good compromise then, providing you had your wallet with you in your pocket. I quite often ride without my purse, just with my ICE contacts and my phone in my pocket.

[Dave20046]

I'm sure I've seen someone (probably on here) with it written on a bit of masking tape stuck to their lid (plus a warning about removing the lid)

the card carrying's a bit of a gamble (lost, not with you, even nicked! etc.), the dogtags seem like over kill, wouldn't really want a sticker over my visor and it might go unnoticed/misunderstood. there's lots of choices but I can't really pick any that I'd consider other than license in wallet.

[combatfred]

I'm sure I've seen someone (probably on here) with it written on a bit of masking tape stuck to their lid (plus a warning about removing the lid)

Me and Wendy wear metal dogtags (under a tenner off eBay) plus have a few stickers dotted about our lids saying "Rider Wearing Dogtags". I think anything that might speed up the treatment process when the sh*t hits the fan can only be a good thing.

We don't just wear the tags on the bike though. They get worn when skiing/snowboarding. Oh and if going out in Glasgow..........;).

[Red Herring]

A lot aren't unfortunately! Had to correct a nurse (amongst others) before.
.

This is true, but some who are aware of the dangers of removing a helmet are unfortunately sometimes unaware that people need to breath to live....

I practically had to fight off a well meaning individual who once tried to stop me removing a riders helmet so that I could give him mouth to mouth....

[thulfi]

RH is right. Airway is first and foremost. Not removing the helmet protects the neck from further injury, but if you know someone is not breathing then you really need to be giving them air, otherwise they will die much sooner.

That said, mouth to mouth is not always a must if the person is uncomfortable doing it/worried about disease transmission,etc - chest compressions alone may be enough until the parameds get there.

[G]

I don't carry an ICE number. Infact I don't carry much. The only item I really carry is my photocard driving license in my pocket so that I can be identified.

I don't have anything else special medically that needs to be notified so I don't see the point.

The police will contact my next of kin where and when necessary dependent on the situation. I would not particularly want them contacted over the phone by someone other than the police, it's what the police are trained for afterall.


RH is right. Airway is first and foremost. Not removing the helmet protects the neck from further injury, but if you know someone is not breathing then you really need to be giving them air, otherwise they will die much sooner.

That said, mouth to mouth is not always a must if the person is uncomfortable doing it/worried about disease transmission,etc - chest compressions alone may be enough until the parameds get there.

The Red Cross/StJohn advanced first aid and refreshers courses now actually tell you NOT to give mouth to mouth. A few of our first aiders came back puzzled after their refresher course, but apparently its right.

[Milky Bar Kid]

The Red Cross/StJohn advanced first aid and refreshers courses now actually tell you NOT to give mouth to mouth. A few of our first aiders came back puzzled after their refresher course, but apparently its right.

We are still taught to do it but I know that they have stopped it in a few of the general publics first aid courses.

[-Ralph-]

Not doing mouth to mouth is a bit ridiculous is it not? Just feeds the culture we are building in the UK/US of "Who cares if somebody else dies, so long as I'm not going to get sued or catch the flu". I don't think there are many really serious illnesses that are prevalent in this country and can be caught via mouth to mouth. I'd rather catch a cold than stand and watch somebody die. The chances of getting seriously ill from mouth to mouth must be pretty slim or people would never have done it, and there would be snogging teenagers filling every hospital bed. We just don't value life unless it's our own nowadays.

[widepants]

.

That said, mouth to mouth is not always a must if the person is uncomfortable doing it/worried about disease transmission,etc - chest compressions alone may be enough until the parameds get there.
has far as I know (and I stand to be corrected)mouth to mouth is for people who arnt breathing and chest compressions are for people whose heart has stopped

[Milky Bar Kid]

Not doing mouth to mouth is a bit ridiculous is it not? Just feeds the culture we are building in the UK/US of "Who cares if somebody else dies, so long as I'm not going to get sued or catch the flu". I don't think there are many really serious illnesses that are prevalent in this country and can be caught via mouth to mouth. I'd rather catch a cold than stand and watch somebody die. The chances of getting seriously ill from mouth to mouth must be pretty slim or people would never have done it, and there would be snogging teenagers filling every hospital bed. We just don't value life unless it's our own nowadays.

It's more to do with the fact a lot of people can't do mouth to mouth properly (don't actually get air into lungs cause they haven't made the proper seal) and spend too much time focussing on it when really they should just do compressions.

[Milky Bar Kid]

has far as I know (and I stand to be corrected)mouth to mouth is for people who arnt breathing and chest compressions are for people whose heart has stopped

Thulfi is training to be a Dr. Pretty sure he'll be clued up on this.

We are certainly trained that if someone is not breathing we are to commence full CPR, not just mouth to mouth as it is more than likely if they are in respiritory arrest they will soon be in cardiac arrest anyway.

[-Ralph-]

It's more to do with the fact a lot of people can't do mouth to mouth properly (don't actually get air into lungs cause they haven't made the proper seal) and spend too much time focussing on it when really they should just do compressions.

If education is the issue, why stop teaching on first aid courses? Just teach it properly. It's pretty obvious if the chest isn't rising that you don't have a seal. As for too many breaths and not enough compressions, in my paternity classes I was told to sing quickly whilst doing it, one compression per word

"Nelly the elephant packed her trunk and said goodbye to the circus, off she went with a trumpty, trump, trump, trump, trump" ... breathe ... "Nelly the elephant packed her trunk and said goodbye to the circus, off she went with a trumpty, trump, trump, trump, trump" ... breathe...

Never done it mind you, so don't know how good I'd be, the only time I'd ever needed to I had just pulled my unconscious stepfather 300 yds through some big waves and couldn't do much other than collapse myself when I got onto the beach, luckily there was a doctor there who took over.

[thulfi]

Thulfi is training to be a Dr. Pretty sure he'll be clued up on this.

We are certainly trained that if someone is not breathing we are to commence full CPR, not just mouth to mouth as it is more than likely if they are in respiritory arrest they will soon be in cardiac arrest anyway.

lol well my exams were last week, so it makes a change:D

But yep you're spot on. CPR once you establish they aren't breathing. It essentially aims to help the heart work as effectively as possible in pumping blood to the vital organs, as the lungs stop receiving air. But who knows, they'll probably change the algorithms again a few years down the line again.

[Milky Bar Kid]

If education is the issue, why stop teaching on first aid courses? Just teach it properly. It's pretty obvious if the chest isn't rising that you don't have a seal. As for too many breaths and not enough compressions, in my paternity classes I was told to sing quickly whilst doing it, one compression per word.

The problem is that people panic though and then it all goes out of the window. It's not difficult just to do compressions, they are easy. Centre of chest and bang, there you go. Every second counts in CPR.

[Red Herring]

Just remember that older people are more fragile than you think. The last person I did CPR on ended up with several broken ribs, fortunately he survived long enough to thank me (not for the broken ribs).

The alternative to mouth to mouth is to use chest extensions rather than compressions. If you imagine kneeling behind their head (they're on their back) and then pulling their arms out from their waist area out and up to behind your shoulders that sort of extends their chest inducing the lungs to expand. It's nowhere as efficient as mouth to mouth but if injury makes that impossible (extensive face injury) then it's the next best thing.

[hongman]

I'm wearing a michelin man suit to the rideout, if I come off I'll bounce happily along...

[Milky Bar Kid]

Just remember that older people are more fragile than you think. The last person I did CPR on ended up with several broken ribs, fortunately he survived long enough to thank me (not for the broken ribs).

The alternative to mouth to mouth is to use chest extensions rather than compressions. If you imagine kneeling behind their head (they're on their back) and then pulling their arms out from their waist area out and up to behind your shoulders that sort of extends their chest inducing the lungs to expand. It's nowhere as efficient as mouth to mouth but if injury makes that impossible (extensive face injury) then it's the next best thing.

Sorry, never been taught that one? How does that help if they are about to go into an imminent cardiac arrest?

Even the paramedic I am friends with recommends going straight into CPR as opposed to doing mouth to mouth, and says its what she would do if she came across someone needing it without her kit etc.

[diamond]

MBK- i understand from what i have been taught that chest extensions is an alternative to mouth to mouth not an alternative to chest compressions so you would still carry out chest compressions for someone suffering a cardiac arrest.
The current belief is that there will already be enough oxygenated blood in circulation and air in the lungs to negate the need for the first breaths to a casualty hence the trend towards going straight into chest compressions.

[Red Herring]

Hi MBK, what Diamond said. Sorry, I just didn't put it very well, the chest extensions just replaces the mouth to mouth bit when that isn't an option, you still need to do the compressions to circulate the blood to the brain.

[thulfi]

As MBK correctly said earlier though - We're talking about 30 compressions to 2 breaths at a rate of 100 compressions a minute. I think it's important to remind people how important compressions really are, and make sure they don't waste crucial time attempting mouth to mouth/chest extensions unless they're comfortable and know what they are doing. Minutes are vital.

[-Ralph-]

As MBK correctly said earlier though - We're talking about 30 compressions to 2 breaths at a rate of 100 compressions a minute. I think it's important to remind people how important compressions really are, and make sure they don't waste crucial time attempting mouth to mouth/chest extensions unless they're comfortable and know what they are doing. Minutes are vital.

So Nelly the Elephant as above, is a pretty good one to remember then? That would let you sing the above twice, with two breaths at the end of each, and about 30-32 compressions depending on how many syllabals get a compression, taking about 20 seconds to complete. Singing it also gives you something else to concentrate on and may help stop you from panicing.

[Red Herring]

I can just picture the scene (cos someone is bound to record it on their phone and put it on Youtube...) Young copper kneeling over casualty singing Nelly The Elephant whilst grieving relatives look on. I mean, just look at the lyrics, "Nelly the Elephant said good by to the circus". Just what are you trying to say about my Grandma or our family?
Perhaps some Bob Dylon "Knock knock knockin' on heavens door" would be more appropriate?

[-Ralph-]

I can just picture the scene (cos someone is bound to record it on their phone and put it on Youtube...) Young copper kneeling over casualty singing Nelly The Elephant whilst grieving relatives look on. I mean, just look at the lyrics, "Nelly the Elephant said good by to the circus". Just what are you trying to say about my Grandma or our family?
Perhaps some Bob Dylon "Knock knock knockin' on heavens door" would be more appropriate?

:smt046 OK, maybe keep that one for the public, not the professionals :smt003

[Speedy Claire]

I`ve been teaching first aid for 4 years now and as Diamond stated earlier the feeling is that prior to a person collapsing from a heart attack they will take a big gasp of air so there is some air circulating thru the lungs. You no longer do the 2 rescue breaths (unless it`s a baby or child and then you administer 5 rescue breaths). It`s now 30 compressions to 2 breaths at the rate of just under 2 compressions a second so nelly the elephant is no longer suitable lol.

The ratio will be changing again shortly (I believe) but I`ve not as yet been informed as to what it will be.

[Bluefish]

The ratio will be changing again shortly (I believe) but I`ve not as yet been informed as to what it will be.


seeing as they change it just about every year, chances are what ever you do will be wrong, but doing some thing is better than nothing, ie better to give 10 or 15 or 20 compressions to a few breaths, than say don't know what's current so better not do it.

[Speedy Claire]

Totally agree... is unlikely that compressions will restart the heart without a defibrillator but at least you`re keeping the circulation going and therefore giving the person a fighting chance.

[BernardBikerchick]

i am likely to have giggle spasms with much frequency throughout the weekend he hehe he he he he he

but i got a web catcher with me and my bro is the other one phone always glued to my head !!

[BernardBikerchick]

st johns first aid trained too !