Guilt trip

[hongman]

Had an off recently if you didn't catch the thread...

Today my son says to me: daddy I don't want you to have a motorbike anymore.

When I asked why (he was more excited than me when I was looking for one) he replied : I don't want you to fall off again and hurt yourself, I don't like it when you get hurt.

I asked him when he thought about this, and he's been thinking about it in school and at night.

**** I had tears in my eyes. The look on his face said it all. He's only 4.

How could I have been so irresponsible to ride like I did to come off.

This will stay with me forever, and will no doubt change the way I ride...forever

[beabert]

The temptation will be too much, ofcourse you could stop riding?

[Stu]

All well and good if it sorts out your attitude to riding, but I hope you told him to do one (not quite sure what that means 8-[) You have to enjoy living you life and can't be wrapped in cotton wool all the time.

[metalangel]

Don't know whether it's fair to guilt people like that, even if it is coming from your young child. That's a toughie.

[Berlin]

Looking on the positive side, you don't have to pack for a guilt trip!

He needs converting. You need to show him that motorcycling is exciting and fun. Take him to the Kiddie go-carts or similar and see if he enjoys it. If he does explain thats why Daddy rides a bike.

At the moment he sees the Bike as taking daddies attention and as every 4 year old knows HE is the centre of the universe and nothing should change that. :)

You can't live in a box of cotton wool all of your life. Biking is (relatively) dangerous and the danger increases the buisier the road and the further you lean over. (not how fast you go) so lean less and use quieter roads if you must.

Its education time! Show him what excitement is and he'll understand :)

c

[dizzyblonde]

Its not a guilt trip your child is on. Its just hes so innocent and he loves his daddy very much. If you grimace in pain they know it hurts, they far from understand the aspect of crashing I can assure you.

I always say I'm a mum first and biker second. My love of riding is always going to be there. I have always ridden, my son knows no different. I fell off, he too didn't like me being hurt, but hes not an adult, so sees things different. He crashed into a slow driving taxi on Sunday, and found out the hard way of falling off a push bike. He got back on, and it'll be used to explain things when I next fall off..if ever again.

I love riding, but I don't and will not get pulled into the arguement of 'ooo you could brush up on your knee down, cornering blah blah blah bullcrap' off people who don't have kids. Until they have them they don't know how it controls your riding sometimes. Better to calm it down a bit and reallly enjoy what you have than nothing at all.

My bike is my selfish pleasure, and it will always stay that way, even if I have a kid on the way and I go round the block every now and again;)

[yorkie_chris]

I love riding, but I don't and will not get pulled into the arguement of 'ooo you could brush up on your knee down, cornering blah blah blah bullcrap' off people who don't have kids.

Yes, just carry on riding exactly as you were when you crashed and make no effort to learn proper and safe roadcraft. Of course this will not lead to another accident, proper skills are completely worthless! But without children of course I wouldn't know anything about how to put a bike around a corner without going hedge surfing :smt078 (4 year olds been well known physics teachers an all that...)

[timwilky]

Don't worry, let your kids know that riding a motorbike makes daddy happy. Daddy is going to play out now. Kids know they fall and hurt themselves when they play, it is no different when daddy plays out.

Of course, you have family responsibilities, but at the same time families have a responsibility to you. It is a balance thing. I put away childish things when I grew up. But as I went into my second childhood, the toys came out again.

Enjoy your bike, ride safe. and always be there to say good night, daddy had a nice day today

[dizzyblonde]

Yes, just carry on riding exactly as you were when you crashed and make no effort to learn proper and safe roadcraft. Of course this will not lead to another accident, proper skills are completely worthless! But without children of course I wouldn't know anything about how to put a bike around a corner without going hedge surfing :smt078 (4 year olds been well known physics teachers an all that...)


In other words Christopher I don't rise to the bait of going that extra silly billy moment, nothing to do with the skills you mention.
And you of all people have been told countless times, it was nothing to do with the fact that its was skills that let me down....it was the fact that I was going through a nervous breakdown, idiot! and speaking of idiot, I will always call myself one for even contemplating going out that day, its the thing that kicks me the most for being a stupid tw4t!
When and only when you have a child in your arms, will you know what the feeling is, and thoughts that you get in your head at times when you go off trotting down the road. They do occasionally creep in your mind, you have to learn to switch it off, or you'd never go out!
Simplez.

[yorkie_chris]

Hook, check.
Line, check.
Sinker... Sinker? ...Oh there you are, get your head out of the paste bucket and answer the register...

Your choice to make. You comparing one crash of your to one totally different.

Man has crashed on a corner and you telling me it is bad for him to brush up on his cornering. What damed fool logic is that.

[dizzyblonde]

Your choice to make. You comparing one crash of your to one totally different.

Man has crashed on a corner and you telling me it is bad for him to brush up on his cornering. What damed fool logic is that.


I think you are missing the point. I have neither seen his thread nor known that he has fallen off until reading this one. This is in a way an unrelated topic...its about his child giving him a guilt trip.

I cannot comment on what happened in his crash as I have not read it. I am not making comparisons to my crash, you brought it up. I only said what my son felt like when I fell off. I am only commenting to this particular subject. I did wonder what the hell you got on yor high horse for:smt110

[hongman]

Thanks peeps.

I wont give up riding...but just wondered if anyone had the same experience. It;d be different if it was the Mrs, a mate, anyone really that was older.

The fact that it came un-provoked from my 4yr old son is what is so...shaking.

Cant be a bad thing I guess, I feel so guilty about doing something so stupid, I really doubt I'll ever do it again.

Skill-wise...I have no confidence issues taking bends I have set up for. This was a pure stupidity moment, lost all concentration/obs, all I was thinking about was catching up to my buddy. Hit that hairpin WAY to quick, even then it turned in WAY more sharply than I anticipated. Inevitable really. I have gone round similar corners before no problems, but I wasnt rushing.

I do have loads to learn, I think when I get back on I'm going to be going out by myself for a bit to practice riding my ride, not anyone elses. I dont think I'm ready for group rides yet...

Many good points in these replies, too many to quote, each made me feel better and help put things into perspective.

Thank you.

[Jayneflakes]

Kids are not stupid, they just don't have all of the facts. Read a book called "Native Stones", has a very interesting section on the love of dangerous sports and having kids. As an outdoor leader, I rely on the risk element as a teaching tool and your son is seeing risk and assuming the worst. You need to reassure him that you will be careful and try not to let him worry, mentioning that falling off is normal and that is why you have so much safety gear to keep you safe will give him something to think about. Maybe show him so GP footage of riders sliding off will help?

Your next step though is to try cave diving, that is one of the most dangerous sports out there! Realistically, the risk assessments you now make while riding will be different since coming off and that was a good lesson to learn, it scared you a bit and has given you awake up call about what is important. Chris and Dizzy both valid points though, practice those skills, but do it with in the limits you feel comfortable with.

I did a "First Bike on Scene" First Aid Course recently and it was interesting listening to the Paramedic talking about crashed and broken bikers. He had a lot of dark stories about people breaking spines and living out their lives in wheel chairs which we know happens, but if we let the fear of it rule us, we would never ride again.

Ride safe Hongman, build up your experience and when your lad is big enough, take him for a ride. They love it.

[Lozzo]

Sell the child, buy a better bike with the profit.

[Jayneflakes]

Sell the child, buy a better bike with the profit.

Lozzo, you are a very bad man, although that is why we love you! :smt110

[pegasus]

Yes, just carry on riding exactly as you were when you crashed and make no effort to learn proper and safe roadcraft. Of course this will not lead to another accident, proper skills are completely worthless! But without children of course I wouldn't know anything about how to put a bike around a corner without going hedge surfing :smt078 (4 year olds been well known physics teachers an all that...)


http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/strollerderby/2008/08/23-End/StatlerWaldorf.JPG

aye aye waldorf and stadler at it again x

[TamSV]

Every single time I go out my daughter says "Bye Daddy, don't fall off your motorbike".

:rolleyes: yeah, cheers for that

[metalangel]

hongman, my parents don't approve at all and that I did come off didn't really help... my imagination now tells me every time the phone rings they're expecting to hear I've done it big time.

I think they'd be very glad if I gave it up... Mrs Metal by contrast assured me while I was STILL STANDING ON THE ROADSIDE looking at my smashed bike (via telephone) that she would come out with me again as soon as I was ready.

TBH I worry about it more than anyone, I think. I lay awake last night having all the irrational fears I get when my mind is idle about the AR.

I don't know what I'd tell your son, apart from the fact that I don't think he understands everything yet and only sees the bad side of it.

[jamesterror]

I was guilt tripped a lot before I actually bought a bike by my parents, as my dad lost 4 mates when he was my age due to bike accidents they did a lot of discouraging, however when I just turned up on the SV and banged it in the garage they weren't impressed.

Just see it as lesson learnt and start again, know your son at 4 doesn't want you to have one I'm sure it'll encourage you to ride safer and be much more aware.

[Milky Bar Kid]

The wee guy isn't guilt tripping you, he just knows you fell off and it hurt and in his logic, it won't happen again if you don't go back on the bike.

Get his interest back in it, let him "help" you fix it for a little while, watch the bike racing with him, maybe go a ride up the street and back with him standing watching so he see's you are not instantly going to fall off.

[hongman]

I dont think he is guilt tripping me on purpose lol, I'm guilt tripping myself...

He was so excited about me getting a bike, he wanted to be the first one I took on it (just round our little square paving bit, not even on the road)

I think me coming off has been a big shock to him. Tonight I will sit down and try to reassure him that daddy will not be doing silly things again, and that I have all the right bits to help me in case I do ever fall off again.

[Milky Bar Kid]

Yeh, good idea. Get him involved in things too, it will make things fun for him and then he won't be so scared about the bike anymore.

[hongman]

Why oh why, do I always do things the hard way...;)

[BigBaddad]

Don't worry about it. I hate to say it but in ten years time he'll hate you anyway:smt046 as a father of two teenage kids I can speak from experience.:smt014

[hongman]

LOL.

So honest.

[metalangel]

AND he'll have forgotten all this because he'll want his own bike.

[-Ralph-]

Today my son says to me: daddy I don't want you to have a motorbike anymore.

When I asked why (he was more excited than me when I was looking for one) he replied : I don't want you to fall off again and hurt yourself, I don't like it when you get hurt.

I asked him when he thought about this, and he's been thinking about it in school and at night

The fact that it came un-provoked from my 4yr old son is what is so...shaking.

Oh, seriously ZERO sympathy from the Mrs.

All shes done is told me I wasted lots of money and I told you so.

pft.

Is it only me being a bit sceptical here? He was dead excited when you were getting one because you were excited, but now he's changed his mind. Kids copy their parents, and opinions blow around with the wind, especially as young as 4 yrs old. Maybe it's the missus you need to have a word with about being more careful what she says in front of him?

[yorkie_chris]

IMO just shake it off as a laugh, don't give him a dead serious chat about how you've got a carbon fibre helmet to stop your brain being smeared across the tarmac and a nice back protector to stop the armco ripped your spine out chunk by chunk. As that does not create a nice image!

Try "oh yes, I fell off my bike, what a jolly fool I am... don't I feel silly" etc. You gonna fall off the bugger at some point.

[hongman]

Yeah, we had a long talk.

She has come round a bit now. She was angry at me for being so stupid, which is fair enough.

"How would I explain to the kids that you weren't ever coming home, if you wasn't so lucky"

What can I say to that. Its very morbid, I know, but for someone who has zero interest in anything mechanical let alone bikes, she just sees them as death traps. Very stubborn too lol.

I can see her point of view.

[Rai86]

IMO just shake it off as a laugh, don't give him a dead serious chat about how you've got a carbon fibre helmet to stop your brain being smeared across the tarmac and a nice back protector to stop the armco ripped your spine out chunk by chunk. As that does not create a nice image!

Try "oh yes, I fell off my bike, what a jolly fool I am... don't I feel silly" etc. You gonna fall off the bugger at some point.

:smt046 jeeez yc.. you really have a wonderful way of puttin things lol :rolleyes:

[hongman]

IMO just shake it off as a laugh, don't give him a dead serious chat about how you've got a carbon fibre helmet to stop your brain being smeared across the tarmac and a nice back protector to stop the armco ripped your spine out chunk by chunk. As that does not create a nice image!

Try "oh yes, I fell off my bike, what a jolly fool I am... don't I feel silly" etc. You gonna fall off the bugger at some point.

Oh yeah, lol. He cant do serious for longer than 30s anyway, and he almost always turns anything serious into a joke/fun of some sort.

I'll keep it light hearted for sure.

[sloppy joe]

Your son is worried that his dad got hurt, and maybe picking up on your anxiety and that of your other half.

Like others have said, involve him and explain to him what biking is all about. My 2.5 yr old was convinced a few weeks back that there was a monster in the kitchen, and it took a few days of patience, explanation and searching for the monster before he agreed that all was ok. A simplistic example, but if your son is worried about your bike and that it might hurt you again, it will probably take some time before you can dispel his worries.

Kid logic is pretty simple, dad+bike=hurt. Therefore remove bike. The same way you would do anything to stop your kid being hurt, he is trying, in his way, to do the same for you. And as someone has pointed out, when the teenage years arrive, you will probably wish for him to have the same level of concern for your wellbeing!

If it makes you want to take a look at the way you ride, surely that can't be a bad thing? People may say 'get straight back on', 'get more training', 'don't bother with training', 'quit bikes' etc., but its only you that can decide what to do next, once everyone in your house settles down from your scare. Good luck.

[-Ralph-]

Your son is worried that his dad got hurt, and maybe picking up on your anxiety and that of your other half.

Kid logic is pretty simple, dad+bike=hurt

+1

I wouldn't worry about the "chat" at all TBH. The sooner you and your wife stop talking about it in front of him, the sooner he'll forget it. If you are both positive about bikes he will be too. My wife is very worried about biking at the moment after I've had a little spate of accidents in recent years including one 5 weeks ago, so there's lots of discussion about it in our household at the moment, but my son loves the bike, because we haven't exposed him to it and he doesn't have any reason to fear the bike.

In the kid logic above you provided him with that logic, including the answer, "hurt" which is now worrying him.

[dizzyblonde]

My son used to howl the house down when ever I got a helmet on when he was very small. It got to the stage where we'd have to shut curtains and hide him in the garden so the coast was clear for me to go! Eventually we got to the stage where he would beep the horn, but if you turned the bike over, he would cry.

These days he has enroled in the YC school of brake servicing, he's very good at pulling levers at the right time :-), asks lots of questions on how things work, and is generally rather comfortable around a bike. But then he is 8, wants to be Valentino Rossi.....one slight snag with that.....he'll sit on the pillion seat but when you move the bike off the sidestand he wants to get off#-o

Kids are funny, if you can get him involved in little things like washing it, he'll soon forget daddy got hurt, as it will involve positives....mainly for you as little hands can get in very tight places;)

[Electro]

15 years down the line...... Dad do you like my new bike? Its great son, I had one like that. Yeah but I wont fall off like you ya clown haha.

Things change and attitudes change, 4 yr olds speak from the heart and he is obviously upset seeing you in a cast and so on. Get him to stick his name on the cast and the worry of hurting will soon change :)

[slark01]

My daughter who is now 3.5( have to put the .5 in, so she says :-) ) and she has been involved with me riding since she was born. She has helped me with cleaning and maintaining the bike. Watched me riding around when testing tyres, breaks etc. She knows that I have fallen off it, but luckily for me she has associated it with her falling off her bike. A quote from her after my little fall on the Chippy run:- " Daddy falls off his bike, I fall off my bike. Then erm we get back on. daddy's is faster".
Positive reassurance is essential for the child. Open conversation with light humour can work wonders. Getting the child invovled in what you are doing will help in the understanding of what you say about biking.
Ste.

[hongman]

Some great responses and advice, thank to everyone for sharing.

I'm a lot more positive now, that we'll get through this just fine!

[Messie]

In addition to all the good advice above, children, particluarly young ones, worry a lot sometimes aout things we just don't think about. How many parents have had to shoo the monsters out from under the bed, or soothe a sobbing child who's just dreamt about ghosts/monsters/bogeymen etc. They also ALL at some point go through the stage of realising that death can happen. Anything can trigger it off, from a comment to a programme or something happening to someone's friend or a pet dies. The first time they realise that mummy/daddy/loved one can die they can be terribly upset. But it really is just a normal part of growing up and a stage that they all go through.
Your son has picked up on your crash and he's at the age and stage where he's put the information into his imagination and computed to find the resulting emotionsa bit sacry to deal with.
Reassure him, and make a little mental note for when the loony wants to take control of the throttle, then keep calm and carry on.
Children are strange little things - we were all on once ;)

[hongman]

Thanks Messie.

I still am a child ;)

[Warthog]

My Dad stopped biking when I was born as he had a family to support and responsibilities to us and it is a demonstrated fact that you are much more likely to die on a bike than in a car. He resumed biking when we became older, and took us out on the bike even. Now we have left home, he bikes a lot again. Its your call really, biking isn't always the most important thing in your life. That said, modifying the way you ride can have great benefits on its own.

[beabert]

My Dad stopped biking when I was born as he had a family to support and responsibilities to us and it is a demonstrated fact that you are much more likely to die on a bike than in a car. He resumed biking when we became older, and took us out on the bike even. Now we have left home, he bikes a lot again. Its your call really, biking isn't always the most important thing in your life. That said, modifying the way you ride can have great benefits on its own.

That would be my approach too, my uncle also did the same, its seems an unpopular choice lol.

[Davadvice]

I've not read the entire thread, having a 3 year old girl if she said that to me i would give it up as much as i love it.

I actualy waited untill i was older and more mature to get the bike so i was going to be more controlled. had i started at 20-21 i would not be writing this.

i nearly had tears in my eyes reading the OP.

shame i couldn't give the fags up as easy.