View Full Version : HELP! is it a scam or genuine - selling bike to overseas buyer.
N8te rider
13-07-10, 09:32 AM
A bike dealer from Holland saw my ad in MCN, wants to buy my SV and has asked me to supply a iban and swift code for my account. He says once the money is in my account he will arrange collection.
Is this a scam or OK? Never had anyone call me from abroad.
yorkie_chris
13-07-10, 09:35 AM
I would not trust it TBH.
Have you checked with your bank for details about what is involved with getting these in place? You may find that there's no way he could refund himself or access any more funds.
Loads of buyers on the continent are buying bikes in the UK because the exchange rate makes it very favourable to do so. I have sold cars over there for huge profit in the past 18 months.
Rather than ask people who wouldn't have a clue about how the banking system works, ask your bank.
Noble Ox
13-07-10, 09:40 AM
Maybe a private buyer, but I wouldn't think a dealer would go to all that trouble for just a second hand bike, do you? And if it did (I really can't see why it would), it would probably source a bike from another respectable dealer within the UK.
Stay clear is my advice!
Noble Ox
13-07-10, 09:42 AM
I say that, then read Lozzo's post... Ha. I dunno', I wouldn't personally!
N8te rider
13-07-10, 10:02 AM
Thanks all. Will check with bank and see what they say before deciding anything.
Drew Carey
13-07-10, 10:03 AM
Agree with Lozzo, ask your bank two questions.
1. Can I accept a SWIFT into my account and what is the IBAN number for the bank.
2. Once payment is recieved, are they able to reclaim the money without mine or the banks envolvement, or would I have to send it back?
If they ask why to question 2, then just tell them what you are doing. My understanding is that electronic cheques can be done through this process, and can subsequently bounce. But the bank should be able to clairfy that.
Do you have an old active bank account or another un-used account at all? Personally, I would use that one, as means if it is dodgy, you just shut the account off and all they had was your name and the IBAN for a dead account. Wait for the money to clear, once cleared, transfer to your own account. Then wait and see what happens.
As another alternative, consider using Escrow.com, there are lots of dodgy versions of escrow out there....but the original www.escrow.com is legit and very good. But it ain't cheap!!! Or even Paypal etc.
That being said, you are now getting into the realms of this being a pain in the harris. So I would simply say he is more than welcome but would be cash on collection. End of story. If he isn't interested, just keep trying to sell in the UK. That is what I would do. Can't beat cash in hand.
I'd feel very nervous about that one, from what I hear the top countries to avoid for anything like this are Nigeria (of course), Canada, Netherlands. Is it worth the risk?
SV650Racer
13-07-10, 10:28 AM
Id bet its totally fine. We have Dutch dealers comming over all the time for bikes. Bikes fetch alot more out there than here.
Just ask him to bring the cash over, go down the bank with him to ensure the exchange rate for the Euro's matches what you want for the bike and for them to check the money. Thats what we do.
Sir Trev
13-07-10, 11:24 AM
My expenses get paid via an overseas bank and I had to provide SWIFT and IBAN numbers to set up my profile. Both should be on your bank statement.
Of course I would not want mine given out to someone I did not know!
Matts-Yokes
13-07-10, 11:47 AM
If he is willing to send a guy in a truck to collect it then tell him to give the guy in the truck the cash for the bike and he can give it you when he arrives.
Why does he have to do a bank transfer then send a truck ??
Cash is the only way on this one, a dealer would be happy with that if he is genuine, you can tell him when you have the cash you will give the driver a receipt for his accounts.
My guess is the truck would never arrive and your bank would be emptied.
If he is willing to send a guy in a truck to collect it then tell him to give the guy in the truck the cash for the bike and he can give it you when he arrives.
Why does he have to do a bank transfer then send a truck ??
It may not be his truck; it may be just a transportation company that has been hired for the occasion.
N8te rider
13-07-10, 11:56 AM
Just had a UK dealer give me top asking price for the SV so will prob part-exchange. Thanks guys
Matts-Yokes
13-07-10, 11:57 AM
Just had a UK dealer give me top asking price for the SV so will prob part-exchange. Thanks guys
Thats the best bet! :D
My guess is the truck would never arrive and your bank would be emptied.
Rubbish :roll: Just give them details of your overdrawn account and when they clear that, it means your overdraft will be paid off :D
SUPERSTARDJ01
13-07-10, 12:38 PM
A bike dealer from Holland saw my ad in MCN, wants to buy my SV and has asked me to supply a iban and swift code for my account. He says once the money is in my account he will arrange collection.
Is this a scam or OK? Never had anyone call me from abroad.
I've heard of this before it's a S C A M. :rant:
I've heard of this before it's a S C A M. :rant:
Enlighten us. How does it work?
Matts-Yokes
13-07-10, 01:32 PM
Im not sure but i have heard they pay with an international cheque and it looks like it clears so they pick the bike up and 3 or 4 days later it bounces.
You can write UK cheques for someone for £10,000,000 and when they go to the bank the cashier adds 10,000,000 in the credit on the computer but its not available for 3-4 days so it instantly shows in your account if you go and check it at a cash machine as 10,000,000 credit. But it bounces after a few days and they have nothing.
Within the few days the scammer picks the bike up and thats that, if its a direct bank transfer then it isnt the same but somehow they send an international cheque.
That's how I understand it, it's all about timing.
SUPERSTARDJ01
13-07-10, 01:50 PM
Im not sure but i have heard they pay with an international cheque and it looks like it clears so they pick the bike up and 3 or 4 days later it bounces.
You can write UK cheques for someone for £10,000,000 and when they go to the bank the cashier adds 10,000,000 in the credit on the computer but its not available for 3-4 days so it instantly shows in your account if you go and check it at a cash machine as 10,000,000 credit. But it bounces after a few days and they have nothing.
Within the few days the scammer picks the bike up and thats that, if its a direct bank transfer then it isnt the same but somehow they send an international cheque.
Exactly that, plus you should NEVER give your bank details address etc etc to anyone, only a fool would do such thing. the feckers that scam people from abroad need :smt067
hongman
13-07-10, 06:34 PM
I trade internationally using my iban number. Been ok, not had my bank emptied, or anything bounce ;)
ceeshaw
13-07-10, 07:49 PM
Okay girls - I'm a Bank Manager so feel I can comment with some expertise... Giving your IBAN number or SWIFT number is perfectly safe. Nobody can use it to take money FROM your account. This is how people pay solicitors for houses.
RElax. Not everybody is out to get you. A deposit from abroad (using your IBAN / SWIFT) is as good as cash. If you're still worried, just withdraw it as soon as it appears, as the money is cleared funds.
Enlighten us. How does it work?
Im not sure but i have heard they pay with an international cheque and it looks like it clears so they pick the bike up and 3 or 4 days later it bounces.
But this isn't a cheque payment :confused:
Nobbylad
13-07-10, 08:18 PM
Exactly that, plus you should NEVER give your bank details address etc etc to anyone, only a fool would do such thing. the feckers that scam people from abroad need :smt067
So you've never written out a cheque then? :rolleyes:
As our esteemed Bank Manager person has said, giving account details out is not risky at all, it just means people can put money into your account, not take it out.
The other thing is that just because the person making the offer to buy says they're from Holland, this may be simply because by now, most scammers realise that trying to buy a motorbike from Nigeria is doomed to fail. Doesn't mean the purchasing party really exists in Holland, or that their carefully crafted emails are from a Dutch national.
yorkie_chris
13-07-10, 09:26 PM
To be honest if the email seems halfway literate then the chances of it being a scam is far reduced!
hongman
13-07-10, 09:33 PM
"I want buy yor bike, its looks very beautiful
Send me your IBAN #
Can get my guy to collect yes?
And he ship it to Holland fur me
MCN is where I see ads
Urs Trooly, A.Scammer"
Random, random.
N8te rider
13-07-10, 10:10 PM
Well, I decided not to sell to Holland man so sent a polite email saying as much. His reply:
Your just not a man off your word!!!!
You kust sold me that bike?????
I happy there are a coppele a englisch people who are!!
Regards
hongman
13-07-10, 10:18 PM
lol. ace.
Well, I decided not to sell to Holland man so sent a polite email saying as much. His reply:
Your just not a man off your word!!!!
You kust sold me that bike?????
I happy there are a coppele a englisch people who are!!
Regards
looks like a lucky/clever escape. Out of interest what was the initial email like? How convincing?
N8te rider
13-07-10, 10:26 PM
He called my mobile. He saw it on MCN. He started with a low offer, we haggled until I got my asking price (which I guess was the hook) then he explained payment and delivery (very matter of fact like). Then he sends me two texts, one with an example of bank codes I would need to send him, the second his email and shop address:
www.jagermotoren.nl
ranathari
15-07-10, 07:56 AM
I do wish Brits would have less reticence about sharing account numbers and sort-codes for transferring money, much like Europeans happily use IBAN/SWIFT.
I've bought stuff off here a few times where people have flat out refused to let me do a bank transfer and demanded a cheque, which is just bizarre. You've giving out the exact same information when you send someone a cheque but now you have to wait a week for the funds to clear plus the time it takes to arrive in the post, versus instantaneous arrival of a bank transfer.
Being wary of potential scams is good, ignoring legitimate transaction methods because you don't understand them isn't.
SUPERSTARDJ01
15-07-10, 08:11 AM
I do wish Brits would have less reticence about sharing account numbers and sort-codes for transferring money, much like Europeans happily use IBAN/SWIFT.
I've bought stuff off here a few times where people have flat out refused to let me do a bank transfer and demanded a cheque, which is just bizarre. You've giving out the exact same information when you send someone a cheque but now you have to wait a week for the funds to clear plus the time it takes to arrive in the post, versus instantaneous arrival of a bank transfer.
Being wary of potential scams is good, ignoring legitimate transaction methods because you don't understand them isn't.
It's because it's difficult to establish the true and fakes, asking for a cheque is safer and the banks drive home not to give out details, all you need is address name and bank details, if your legit then you wont mind the hoops.
SUPERSTARDJ01
15-07-10, 08:17 AM
He called my mobile. He saw it on MCN. He started with a low offer, we haggled until I got my asking price (which I guess was the hook) then he explained payment and delivery (very matter of fact like). Then he sends me two texts, one with an example of bank codes I would need to send him, the second his email and shop address:
www.jagermotoren.nl (http://www.jagermotoren.nl)
Call the shop and ask if he works there.
SV650Racer
15-07-10, 08:24 AM
It's because it's difficult to establish the true and fakes, asking for a cheque is safer and the banks drive home not to give out details, all you need is address name and bank details, if your legit then you wont mind the hoops.
A cheque is not safe at all, in fact we dont take cheques from customers for large amounts. Cheques can easily be cancelled and faked.
If the method of transfering money by using Iban numbers etc wasnt safe then the banks wouldnt offer that service. Those numbers are set up just for that purpose.
Ive done lots of large money transfers and with foreign buyers, mainly to the Netherlands. No problem at all.
Matts-Yokes
15-07-10, 08:25 AM
I also pay for lots of things using iban/swift codes as i am a dealer that buys quite alot of parts from Germany BUT i would not trust someone i had never heard of from a foriegn country especially if it was to buy something of value.
Why do bike dealers in Europe want to buy bikes from the UK - It is because the euro is so strong and so they make more profit, but its all to do with the profit so why dont the same dealers come over here and buy from trade auctions like british dealers do, then they get the bikes cheaper.
1 dealer buying 1 bike from a private advert and paying for 1 bike to be shipped back to Holland sounds very expensive and not worth the small amount he will make on it. Why doesnt he come over with the smae truck buy 10 bikes from auction and have 1 transport cost.
We used to buy from abroad like this when imports were the "next big thing" but we would spend 40-50k at a time not a few thousand, to make it worth while.
SV650Racer
15-07-10, 08:28 AM
I also pay for lots of things using iban/swift codes as i am a dealer that buys quite alot of parts from Germany BUT i would not trust someone i had never heard of from a foriegn country especially if it was to buy something of value.
Why do bike dealers in Europe want to buy bikes from the UK - It is because the euro is so strong and so they make more profit, but its all to do with the profit so why dont the same dealers come over here and buy from trade auctions like british dealers do, then they get the bikes cheaper.
1 dealer buying 1 bike from a private advert and paying for 1 bike to be shipped back to Holland sounds very expensive and not worth the small amount he will make on it. Why doesnt he come over with the smae truck buy 10 bikes from auction and have 1 transport cost.
We used to buy from abroad like this when imports were the "next big thing" but we would spend 40-50k at a time not a few thousand, to make it worth while.
They wont come over for just one. Everytime our usual guy comes over he collects from us and also has 4 or 5 other bikes in a van or trailer. One guy comes over in a small truck.
SUPERSTARDJ01
15-07-10, 08:33 AM
A cheque is not safe at all, in fact we dont take cheques from customers for large amounts. Cheques can easily be cancelled and faked.
If the method of transfering money by using Iban numbers etc wasnt safe then the banks wouldnt offer that service. Those numbers are set up just for that purpose.
Ive done lots of large money transfers and with foreign buyers, mainly to the Netherlands. No problem at all.
Fair enough, why not use paypal at least he's protected that way, I would say because he has the web address and contact number I would call the dealer from number on web address and see if he works there, but proceed with caution.
ranathari
15-07-10, 09:52 AM
It's because it's difficult to establish the true and fakes, asking for a cheque is safer and the banks drive home not to give out details, all you need is address name and bank details, if your legit then you wont mind the hoops.
How is it any safer? Every cheque you've given someone has your bank account number and sort code on, which is the exact same information you'd give someone to make a bank transfer to you.
Cheque fraud is enormous, like SV650Racer said, and very trivial to perform. Bank transfers are very secure and are the way banks like people to do things - it's why cheques are used very scarcely in Europe and bank transfers are much more common.
SUPERSTARDJ01
15-07-10, 10:15 AM
How is it any safer? Every cheque you've given someone has your bank account number and sort code on, which is the exact same information you'd give someone to make a bank transfer to you.
Cheque fraud is enormous, like SV650Racer said, and very trivial to perform. Bank transfers are very secure and are the way banks like people to do things - it's why cheques are used very scarcely in Europe and bank transfers are much more common.
First of all I'm not trying to cause an argument but if he asks for a cheque how is the receiver of the cheque giving bank details, he is not second of all you do know the UK is part of europe? and we still use cheques.
I'm not saying it's dodgy just saying I would be concerned as I've heard of scam very close to this but the buyers are normally Nigerian.
The UK is slightly unusual compared to the rest of Europe regarding the relationship between Bank and customer, and also the attitudes towards credit cards etc. I've found it difficult to use credit cards in Germany for example, whereas in countries like France people accept (domestic Bank)cheques with no problems because the Banks drop a ton of bricks on anyone bouncing one or writing cheques with insufficient funds. I think we are just wary of giving any account details particularly over the net because of the fraudsters and scams.
I'm happy using Paypal for foreign purchases because they are an opaque middleman, though I confess to sometimes going on Google Earth to see what's actually at the address given. Even then I have a separate Bank account for Paypal and people paying me over t'internet etc. so it is isolated from my main current account. Just paranoid I guess.
SUPERSTARDJ01
15-07-10, 10:37 AM
The UK is slightly unusual compared to the rest of Europe regarding the relationship between Bank and customer, and also the attitudes towards credit cards etc. I've found it difficult to use credit cards in Germany for example, whereas in countries like France people accept (domestic Bank)cheques with no problems because the Banks drop a ton of bricks on anyone bouncing one or writing cheques with insufficient funds. I think we are just wary of giving any account details particularly over the net because of the fraudsters and scams.
I'm happy using Paypal for foreign purchases because they are an opaque middleman, though I confess to sometimes going on Google Earth to see what's actually at the address given. Even then I have a separate Bank account for Paypal and people paying me over t'internet etc. so it is isolated from my main current account. Just paranoid I guess.
Same here.
chris8886
15-07-10, 10:44 AM
people can't just take money from your account because they have your account number and sort code! plus YC is happy to do bank transfers, i know as i bought a few things from him and everyone knows he wouldn't do that if he smelt a rat. lol
N8te rider
18-07-10, 07:14 AM
I decided to trade Suzy at my local dealership. Got top asking price so I'm happy. Thanks for everyones input. I'll put some pics up of my new baby soon :-)
I'll put some pics up of my new baby soon :-)
Is it your avatar? Nice R125
the white rabbit
19-07-10, 08:14 PM
Exactly that, plus you should NEVER give your bank details address etc etc to anyone,
Never written a cheque then?
ceeshaw
19-07-10, 08:41 PM
Beware with cheques: there is a difference between funds being made 'available' and when you can be certain of the 'fate' of the cheque. Most banks will 'clear' cheques in 3 days - but this does not guarantee the funds - the cheque can still bounce. "But I'll have withdrawn the funds so that's the banks problem, no?"
No. It's your credit record that'll head down the drain. For cheques to be properly clear, you usually have to wait 6 days - but some banks are different, so check with them.
Accepting cheques as a meanas of payment is foolish.
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