View Full Version : Unusual Insurance Question
Hey guys.
Currently got two curvy's, which are both registered in my name with the DVLA.
Anyway, one is hopefully, steadilly making it's way to becoming a track bike. It should have a daytime MOT soon, but i'd like to still occasionally use it on the road without having to insure it for a whole year, or individual times i want to take it out.
Question: Could i pass ownership over to someone else as the insurance for the other curvy covers me to ride other peoples bikes if ya gets me. Not found out how much an extra bike would be on current cover yet, but the above way, would be free...
Hope this makes sense, and is not a stupid question... :)
Luke-Mac
14-07-10, 11:35 PM
Insurance policies which cover you to ride other bikes have small print saying that the other bike has to be insured by its owner as well as you being insured under your policy,
So you could pass over ownership, but the person you pass it to has to have an insurance policy before you can ride it on your policy, might as well insure it yourself or get yourself put on as a named driver if you still want to pass over ownership?
lukemillar
15-07-10, 01:02 AM
Hey guys.
Currently got two curvy's, which are both registered in my name with the DVLA.
Anyway, one is hopefully, steadilly making it's way to becoming a track bike. It should have a daytime MOT soon, but i'd like to still occasionally use it on the road without having to insure it for a whole year, or individual times i want to take it out.
Question: Could i pass ownership over to someone else as the insurance for the other curvy covers me to ride other peoples bikes if ya gets me. Not found out how much an extra bike would be on current cover yet, but the above way, would be free...
Hope this makes sense, and is not a stupid question... :)
It doesn't make financial sense! you'll still need road tax as well for those few occasions as well as insurance.
When I converting my current race bike, I kept the rego and insurance going, but after a while figured it was pointless and expensive, so I cancelled the whole lot!
Surely if you're going to be the one doing the majority of the riding, that could be considered as fronting (similar to the kids on parents insurance, when the parent doesn't drive the car).
Probably best to keep it in your own name and on the same policy as the road bike, but emphasise to the insurer that you're only going to ride to/from tracks and to mot stations with it.
Milky Bar Kid
15-07-10, 06:40 AM
Like others have said, the bike will still need to be insured. Every vehicle on the road must have it's own third party insurance basically.
Like others have said, the bike will still need to be insured. Every vehicle on the road must have it's own third party insurance basically.
This isn't quite right. It would be abroad on the continent, where insurance is on the vehicle, but the UK system/principle of insurance is that the "person" must be insured to drive same.
Basically, in the UK we do not operate on the principle of "specified" certificates" as they do on the continent. IE the vehicle must be "specified". Here, we use the vehicle to rate the policy as the main risk.
Obviously your cover as DOc is third party only. You waive the comprehensive, fire and theft parts, which is why DOC is an inferior policy to "rely" on.
And your driving other cars extention to your policy, if you have one, is effectively the third party cover whilst your using it.
I am not sure that to use someone elses car, that it must be insured elsewhere. What must be established is that your not the main user, and that it must not be registered in your name.
Certainly, for the purposes of finding an insurer with a liability under saction 152 of the Road Traffic act, the DOC extention is sufficient to compell an insurer to pay for any losses arising, if the identified driver has a valid policy in their own name allwoing them to use other vehicles.
Obviously the question may be "why doesnt the vehicle have any other insurer" leading logically to "are you really the main user of the vehicle if no one else is" but thats a technical exploration for the insurer, not one that concerns the police in any way.
This is why I don't understand about police roadside checks, automatic numberplace recognisiton systems ect. The fact a vehicle has no policy agaisnt it on the MID isn't evidence that the person driving insn't entitled to.
If my car is laid up, and a friend drives it to the garage using DOC to have it MOT'ed, thats not an uninsured vehicle. There can many other examples.
Milky Bar Kid
15-07-10, 04:44 PM
Basically, in the UK we do not operate on the principle of "specified" certificates" as they do on the continent. IE the vehicle must be "specified". Here, we use the vehicle to rate the policy as the main risk.
I am just going to get the books out AGAIN but I can tell you that paragraph is wrong. The vehicle must have third party cover if it is on a road under the RTA. And that's not a public road, thats a road.
Give me ten minutes.
yorkie_chris
15-07-10, 04:48 PM
Insurance policies which cover you to ride other bikes have small print saying that the other bike has to be insured by its owner as well as you being insured under your policy,
Mine doesn't.
yorkie_chris
15-07-10, 04:51 PM
This is why I don't understand about police roadside checks, automatic numberplace recognisiton systems ect. The fact a vehicle has no policy agaisnt it on the MID isn't evidence that the person driving insn't entitled to.
But it's a strong suggestion. I have been pulled over when driving otherwise uninsured vehicles and see that as an entirely fair inconvenience. I'd rather that, than them ignore some tw*t who really has no insurance who then knocks me off.
Electro
15-07-10, 05:06 PM
The law in the UK is as said by others, if a motor vehicle is to be driven by a third party, the vehicle must have its own insurance secondary to the third party`s own cover. In simples, if I lend my car or bike you would be fine on your insurance to drive either of them as they are both insured. If I had no insurance on either veicle, you would be getting a tug if you passed an ANPR vehicle or got random pull as The Vehicle has no insurance.
hongman
15-07-10, 05:36 PM
My insurance to ride other bikes 3rd party only explicitly states that on top of the other bike having its own "main" insurance, it must also have a valid MOT and tax.
Why not try and get a Multibike policy. I know it cost my Dad £7 a year more for two guzzies than it does for one. As both your bikes are Sv's it would be pretty similar.
The thinking is, if youre riding one, you can't be riding the other so its a negligible greater risk.
C
Biker Biggles
15-07-10, 07:09 PM
We have had this debate before,but does anyone actually have any evidence for the opinions stated above?
Electro
15-07-10, 07:13 PM
We have had this debate before,but does anyone actually have any evidence for the opinions stated above?
Ring your insurance company.
OK I'll try to help.
First of all, there's a few possibilities for your Driving Other Bikes extension;
a) you don't have it
b) you have it but any bike you're riding has to have some primary insurance (becoming more common to catch out people doing what the OP is suggesting)
c) you have it and there is no requirement for the bike to be insured elsewhere (although there will likely be some other terms that apply - to be found in the Third Party section of your policy booklet)
The law has nothing whatsoever to say about this. It is nothing more or less than an additional policy benefit designed to make a particular policy more attractive. There is therefore no standard.
With regard to every vehicle needing to have its own insurance this is not quite correct. If you use a vehicle on the public highway YOU must have Third Party insurance in place to do so. This need not be specific to the vehicle. For example, the motor trade use vehicles all the time that are not individually insured. If the trade possess a vehicle for only a few days they do not need to register it on the Motor Insurance Database. They might therefore get a tug but are always given the opportunity to prove cover at the roadside - I get calls for this all the time.
Finally, if you're going to be a wee bit cheeky with your insurance then I would advise you to think on. When the claims investigator is sat on your sofa looking you in the beedy and telling you the consequences for committing insurance fraud, are you still going to have the cojones to stick to your story?
As usual in these matters, Juju is correct. Claims background?
Stephen McG
15-07-10, 11:30 PM
if you go onto www.askmid.co.uk (http://www.askmid.co.uk)
you can ask to check your own reg no. free of charge
(nothing to stop you putting any number)
they have just added an extra question to retype a set of random numbers.
If you vehicle does not come back as on database then carry insurance certificate as you will be stopped if you pass an ANPR. Alternatively get on to your insurance company and see why they have not updated d/b
SMcG
We have had this debate before,but does anyone actually have any evidence for the opinions stated above?
Direct Line car insurance policy, for example, available on their website. Page 16 confirms that Driving Other Cars cover is only activated if stated on the certificate - thereby leaving the possibility that it might not be. Also no requirement for the "other" car to be insured.
And look at Elephant.co.uk current policy wording - page 10. This version of Driving Other Cars requires there to be a policy in force on the other car. Note that you may not qualify for the extension at all. You need to check both your certificate and policy wording to establish what cover you actually have.
dizzyblonde
16-07-10, 08:25 AM
I see theres only Berlin whose said multibike policy.
Although considering your age it could be an expensive thing. I've got three bikes under the same policy. I'm fully comp on all mine, and am insured third party only to ride anyone elses bikes ''providing they have suitable insurance to allow me to do so'' Although YC may somehow be different to the rule, I have only ever known this to be the case with my insurance policies...as has Peg, he rides all my bikes, hes with a different insurer.
. BTW would I really want to ride the ZZR TPO??? I could do :-)
yorkie_chris
16-07-10, 09:25 AM
I'm fully comp on all mine, and am insured third party only to ride anyone elses bikes ''providing they have suitable insurance to allow me to do so'' Although YC may somehow be different to the rule,
Mine simply states "provided I have the owners permission". Oh and it does not include me hiring the vehicle.
I actually rang them to check, as have ridden a couple of uninsured bikes to MOTs and stuff... it was no problem.
I am with different insurer to you.
am insured third party only to ride anyone elses bikes ''providing they have suitable insurance to allow me to do so'' Although YC may somehow be different to the rule,
You might have mistyped or have the wrong end of the stick there DB. If the other person has suitable insurance allowing you to ride their bike - e.g. you are named on their policy or they have Any Driver - then your own policy will specifically provide no cover. The more relevant policy will take precedence.
There might be a condition on your Riding other Bikes extension that the other vehicle is insured by its owner, just not for you riding it. However, as demonstrated above, this condition might not be present. The only way to know is to check both your certificate and policy . There is no industry standard for this.
YC has done a very unusual thing in that he appears to have read his insurance policy. I'm not being sarcastic - this IS very unusual.
dizzyblonde
16-07-10, 09:44 AM
I am with different insurer to you.
I know, but so's Peg. All companies set their own terms. Bit like CN allowing you mod away and your premium staying the same, but others don't like you to and bump it up.
Yup, my current insurance states, "with the other owners permission", too...
I'll give them a buzz today find out the details and also enquire about a 2nd bike policy.
Cheers guys.
After mucho research on price, my cheapest bet is to take out a new dual bike policy costing £402, meaning i need to spend another £124.
Damn, i wish there was a cheaper way. :(
EDIT: Although i didn't ask they're stance on the original question yet...
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