held for 13 hours for defending him self

[barwel1992]

this is off the rsv forum, exact quotes from the blokes post's. Whats your take on this

Got burgled about 3 -4 weeks ago. So tonight i'm watching the television and three teenage kids (aged approx 17) burst through my back door and start threatening me. All wearing hoodies and sweatshirts pulled up over there faces. Anyway they made the mistake of letting me stand up (d.ckheads) and I picked up the 18in monkey wrench I had leaning against the wall after the last episode. Gave one of them a GOOD crack with that and they ran like fook. Got no chance of catching them with a gimpy leg but beginning to think I've been targeted. Sitting here on the computer now because I'm wary about going to bed. Little sh.ts!


Hello again guys! Well I've just spent the last 13hrs in a police cell having been arrested for suspected ABH. They have no complainant and no victim. During the 13 hrs I was offered no washing facilities so smelt pretty much like a badger's bum, I was offered no food and was only given two cups of tea. So who exactly was the victim. Incidently I do have a PIR light and the only reason I don't have a dog (love them) is because I don't have a car so don't think it's right to abandon it every time I go out. Even worse if I go away 4 the weekend. I personal do not think I did anything wrong, but apparently I am supposed to politely ask the little d.ck heads to leave. Well it might have worked - my fault I suppose for not trying Anyway, The police took my big fook off spanner so I've had to replace it with a big fook off extending wheel wrench. Welcome to my parlour said the spider to the fly

[yorkie_chris]

How did the police know about him giving one a crack with the spanner?

Unsurprising TBH
But there's more to this particular tale than meets the eye.

[The Guru]

Probably because he's blabbed it on an open forum.

He cant just say "I had a big wrench sitting there incase it happened again". That shows he had intent to use it as a weapon. Not just defending himself with the nearest object at hand.

[barwel1992]

i think some one phoned it in to the police.

[Milky Bar Kid]

How did the police know about him giving one a crack with the spanner?

Unsurprising TBH
But there's more to this particular tale than meets the eye.

Probably because he's blabbed it on an open forum.

He cant just say "I had a big wrench sitting there incase it happened again". That shows he had intent to use it as a weapon. Not just defending himself with the nearest object at hand.

Agree and agree!!

[barwel1992]

Agree and agree!!

i also agree just very odd, also how can you be held for 13 hours with no food ?

[keithd]

i also agree just very odd, also how can you be held for 13 hours with no food ?

ever stayed at a Travel Lodge before?

[yorkie_chris]

But TBH defending your own home should be rewarded not punished. Prepared defenses or not.

I have intent of using reasonable force as allowed by the law to defend my home if anyone breaks in, if they fall down the stairs 2 or 3 times that's not my problem is it. It's a steep driveway ;)

[Milky Bar Kid]

i also agree just very odd, also how can you be held for 13 hours with no food ?

I don't believe that for one minute. Perhaps he refused it?? They wouldn't have given him cups of tea if they didn't offer him food!!

[barwel1992]

rofl no i haven't Kieth

[Paul the 6th]

well if you've been locked up after the daily trip to the off licence then they prolly won't have gotten a ginsters or sandwich if they didn't realise you'd be coming in for the night

[GeneticBubble]

I dont know why but i decided to replace "monkey wrench" with penis...makes it a more enjoyable read


fair play to the guy in my opinion

[barwel1992]

I don't believe that for one minute. Perhaps he refused it?? They wouldn't have given him cups of tea if they didn't offer him food!!

hmm odd maybe he's sour about been done for protecting his property

[barwel1992]

I dont know why but i decided to replace "monkey wrench" with penis...makes it a more enjoyable read


fair play to the guy in my opinion

ohh dear :rolleyes:

[Biker Biggles]

i also agree just very odd, also how can you be held for 13 hours with no food ?

Ill have a word with my boss about that.If it turns out to be illegal Ill sue.:)
As for the OP he needs to read up on farmer martin before he starts making too many bigging me up posts on tinternet.

[Milky Bar Kid]

hmm odd maybe he's sour about been done for protecting his property

Possibly or perhaps he's trying to embellish the story for the forum??? :rolleyes:

[barwel1992]

probably, they all seem up in arms about it lol

[CheGuevara]

So if it's illegal to have something preparred to defend yourself inside your own home (and this strikes me as lunacy), then the lesson is to use a common household item - kitchen knife maybe? :rolleyes:

[the_lone_wolf]

So if it's illegal to have something preparred to defend yourself inside your own home (and this strikes me as lunacy), then the lesson is to use a common household item - kitchen knife maybe? :rolleyes:

6xD battery Maglite is the kiddy


And no, he wasn't locked up for defending his property, he was detained while the police investigated an allegation of ABH

If the CPS decide to charge him he can use the self defence as a defence against the charge, and if he is judged to have exceeded the limits of self defence he will be found guilty

Really very simple until you involve the Daily Wail readers...

[barwel1992]

So if it's illegal to have something preparred to defend yourself inside your own home (and this strikes me as lunacy), then the lesson is to use a common household item - kitchen knife maybe? :rolleyes:

Naa knife's to boring maybe a frying pan

[The Guru]

So if it's illegal to have something preparred to defend yourself inside your own home (and this strikes me as lunacy), then the lesson is to use a common household item - kitchen knife maybe? :rolleyes:

Only if its immediately to hand and you don't run to the kitchen.

[barwel1992]

Only if its immediately to hand and you don't run to the kitchen.

so i could clout some one with a coffee table that's next to me and the law could see that as been prepared to defend

[yorkie_chris]

6xD battery Maglite is the kiddy


And no, he wasn't locked up for defending his property, he was detained while the police investigated an allegation of ABH

If the CPS decide to charge him he can use the self defence as a defence against the charge, and if he is judged to have exceeded the limits of self defence he will be found guilty

Really very simple until you involve the Daily Wail readers...

Yes he was. They could have easily investigated it with him sat at home.

Where was the allegation without a victim?

[CLARKYsv]

My Large tools are always kept in my room... Easy access should I need to quickly do any work on the bike.... Pick them up on the way out the door ;)

[Biker Biggles]

Farmer Martin had a shotgun and that was deemed to be unlawful,especially when he appeared to shoot the pikey as he was exiting the property.When(if) it gets to court it wont help if the assailant has bragged about what happened on a forum when trying to prove he just did the minimum he had to.

[yorkie_chris]

so i could clout some one with a coffee table that's next to me and the law could see that as been prepared to defend

No because it's normal to have a coffee table there.

Having a baseball bat next to your bed would be making preparations. TBH I see it as a good idea to have some weaponry to hand in every room, just make sure you've a "reason" it's there.

[barwel1992]

so you could have a base ball bad hanging on the wall as an "ornament" like some people do with sward's

[the_lone_wolf]

Yes he was. They could have easily investigated it with him sat at home.

Where was the allegation without a victim?Who said there was no victim?

And if someone is accused of ABH you don't just ask them to stay at home while you do your investigating, just because the guy might be trustworthy doesn't make 99% of the people accused of ABH any less likely to do a runner if the police come to their house then leave them there...

[Biker Biggles]

OK so I can keep a handy knife in the kitchen,a coffee table with big fat f off chunky legs in the living room a snap on breaker bar in the dining room where the bike lives and all manner of instruments of torture in the bedroom cos Im kinky like that?
I think that covers the reasonable self defence excuses?

[barwel1992]

They have no complainant and no victim.

TLW from my original post, its like some one phoned up and left no name or name of the person that was hurt just accusing the bloke of ABH

[barwel1992]

torture in the bedroom cos Im kinky like that?
I think that covers the reasonable self defence excuses?


http://www.sanctuarylifestyle.com/images/dungeon-tour/front_dungeon_rack.jpg

:smt046

[the_lone_wolf]

TLW from my original post, its like some one phoned up and left no name or name of the person that was hurt just accusing the bloke of ABH

So he was thick enough to incriminate himself when questioned?:rolleyes:

[barwel1992]

So he was thick enough to incriminate himself when questioned?:rolleyes:

no idea

[wyrdness]

so you could have a base ball bad hanging on the wall as an "ornament" like some people do with sward's

Why not just have a sword hanging on the wall?

[barwel1992]

because they have to be blunt, well my mate that collect them told me that to have them they have to be blunt other wise they are illegal ?

[The Guru]

A decorative Samurai sword is still 'pointy' enough to stab someone even if the blade is blunt. ;)

[ophic]

because they have to be blunt, well my mate that collect them told me that to have them they have to be blunt other wise they are illegal ?
It's legal to own a sharpened sword, but not to sell it. I think. However I think the definition of self defense breaks down somewhat if you have a sword and they have a little stick. Of course, if you're outnumbered it's a different story - at least until the courts hear it #-o

[davepreston]

why are you people over thinking this
put a lighter in your grip before you punch said chav in head
when plod turn up and ask you to go to station make sure they fully secure you home and inform them you haven't eaten as you were about to make dinner they inturn if keeping you over 6 hrs have to feed you, you can also request as many brews as are concidered resonable
simples

[Milky Bar Kid]

why are you people over thinking this
put a lighter in your grip before you punch said chav in head
when plod turn up and ask you to go to station make sure they fully secure you home and inform them you haven't eaten as you were about to make dinner they inturn if keeping you over 6 hrs have to feed you, you can also request as many brews as are concidered resonable
simples

Can't request as many brews as is considered reasonable...you can request as many cups of water as is considered reasonable.

[timwilky]

Well to repeat my younger bothers story.

He is the MD of a small company age 48. He is also chairman of the committee that runs his local social club.

Well they are hosting a christening celebration and his son is working. He pops in to talk to his son when trouble breaks out. Son refuses to serve a woman who has had one over the odds and suggests she may prefer a glass of water. At which point the woman is offended and takes it out on the manager by pushing her on the floor.

My brother suggests to the group who are then remonstrating saying who is he to say whether she can/cannot have a drink. (He is bar staff stupid, if he doesn't want to serve you, he doesn't have to) that perhaps they should leave. The group push him out the door and 4 attack him.


There are 3 behind him and one held of his neck trying to drag him down a flight of stairs when he is thrown down. Unfortunately the one round his neck goes down first and my brother fortunately has a softer than planned landing. Unfortunately his cushion gets a broken neck on his landing. Police arrive, cushion goes off in an ambulance and my brother goes off in the back of the van charged with GBH.

Despite witnesses saying the wrong person is arrested he ends up before the magistrates, then onto crown court. 3 times he appears before the court and the CPS still not prepared their case when the judge throws it out. 3 of the 4 who attacked my brother had been convicted of ABH against him, yet the CPS were still pursuing the GBH using his attackers as witnesses against him. The judge described them as not credible in dismissing the case.

He had been held in the cells for near 48 hours, 5 months on bail, 2 magistrates and 3 crown court appearances. Had to dispose of all his assets to his wife and family in case his "victim" pushed for a financial settlement that would bankrupt him and wipe out his company and spent near on £8,000 on legal advice.

Ironically I was in a pub 2 days after this happened and overheard a group planning to attack my brother in revenge for their mates injury. I phoned a few of my brothers and they were advised of what I had just heard. I also informed the plod, and of course they were not interested.

all of this because the police wrongly assessed the scene at the time, assumed the lessor injured to be the attacker and despite witnesses to the contrary decided they had arrested their man, and were going to hang him out to dry.

With other recent dealing with plod and my son. I fully understand why many have no faith in the police and would walk away rather than help them

[Luke-Mac]

Can't request as many brews as is considered reasonable...you can request as many cups of water as is considered reasonable.

Jeez can't even have a nice cuppa when you're parched after being banged up for protecting YOUR property from a bunch of theiving b*****ds! Government cut backs ey! :tongue:

[yorkie_chris]

why are you people over thinking this
put a lighter in your grip before you punch said chav in head
when plod turn up and ask you to go to station make sure they fully secure you home and inform them you haven't eaten as you were about to make dinner they inturn if keeping you over 6 hrs have to feed you, you can also request as many brews as are concidered resonable
simples

If you're not a cracked up idiot who says "innit" a lot then you'd surely get plenty food, blankets etc.

Good friend of mine is DO and I think it is pleasant surprise for them to get someone who's civil!

[Lozzo]

I don't give a monkeys what the law says, anyone entering my home will feel the rough end of this

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2708/4333804557_0e01943ed5_b.jpg

It's a clutch holding tool for TZ350s and it weighs a fair bit. I keep it by the side of my bed and am quite prepared to use it if need arises.

[Girth]

I don't give a monkeys what the law says, anyone entering my home will feel the rough end of this

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2708/4333804557_0e01943ed5_b.jpg

It's a clutch holding tool for TZ350s and it weighs a fair bit. I keep it by the side of my bed and am quite prepared to use it if need arises when im in the middle of my kinky sex games.

:confused:

[yorkie_chris]

TBH I don't see anything sinister about that... a man who keeps all his old tax discs is perfectly entitled to hold the odd clutch at bedtime :-P

The law about not making such preparations is completely beyond me. Someone intent on breaking into your house could be any manner of murdering lunatic... and if you want to be a bit paranoid and stand behind the door with a baseball bat then that seems perfectly reasonable to me. The law should brook no protection in the slightest for those who break it in a way which harms others.

Usual tenet applies, better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

[Lozzo]

:confused:

Bad man.

Post editing is neither big nor clever, no matter how true it may be :D

[Dave20046]

"Well occifer, there I was pleasuring my self with a claw hammer when a burglar stumbled in...


...so I punched him"


It's unfortunate and if as written, not really fair - but the guy sounds a bit thick to boast about it and incriminate him on the internetz. He probably boasted to the attending (if they did) coppers.

[Specialone]

The way i look at things is, if i went outside of my house im armed in the street then ok they almost have grounds to moan but i will have what i want behind my walls.
The moment somebody enters my house uninvited then they lose their rights to anything, they go tooled up to break into the houses in the first place.
I hope it never happens but i have a shorter baseball bat made of ash which i made when i was 18 which i keep by my bed and i WILL use it if forced to, restraint is how many times you hit them before you think they have had enough and thats the difficult thing to judge when the adrenaline is pumping.

In the states, we wouldnt even be having this conversation, i remember telling an american friend of mine about tony martin, it caused outrage over there because he was sent down for defending his property, he'd be a hero over there.
He told me about people dragging shot burglars back on to their property because as long as its on your land there will be no case to answer.

[Dave20046]

The way i look at things is, if i went outside of my house im armed in the street then ok they almost have grounds to moan but i will have what i want behind my walls.
The moment somebody enters my house uninvited then they lose their rights to anything, they go tooled up to break into the houses in the first place.
I hope it never happens but i have a shorter baseball bat made of ash which i made when i was 18 which i keep by my bed and i WILL use it if forced to, restraint is how many times you hit them before you think they have had enough and thats the difficult thing to judge when the adrenaline is pumping.

In the states, we wouldnt even be having this conversation, i remember telling an american friend of mine about tony martin, it caused outrage over there because he was sent down for defending his property, he'd be a hero over there.
He told me about people dragging shot burglars back on to their property because as long as its on your land there will be no case to answer.
It's the balance that's the issue, I know a guy in the states and one of his neighbours shot a kid in the back as he ran from the property. There's also the scope to abuse the law or torture people which I wouldn't quite agree with.
They just need to define reasonable force a little better. Maybe 'deterring force'? 'Danger removal force'? 8)
As tempting as 'they're scum, anything goes' sounds - I'm not 100%

[Specialone]

It's the balance that's the issue, I know a guy in the states and one of his neighbours shot a kid in the back as he ran from the property. There's also the scope to abuse the law or torture people which I wouldn't quite agree with.
They just need to define reasonable force a little better. Maybe 'deterring force'? 'Danger removal force'? 8)
As tempting as 'they're scum, anything goes' sounds - I'm not 100%

Id rather them just not invade my space in the first place.
Its like picking a fight on a bloke twice the size of you, you generally wouldnt would you because of the outcome, same as illegally entering another mans property, you crossed the line now limp back across it you c**t.

[Lozzo]

It's the balance that's the issue, I know a guy in the states and one of his neighbours shot a kid in the back as he ran from the property.

Fair play - if the kid's still breathing he can come back and try again.

[Dave20046]

Fair play - if the kid's still breathing he can come back and try again.

this is true :scratch:

[yorkie_chris]

It's the balance that's the issue, I know a guy in the states and one of his neighbours shot a kid in the back as he ran from the property. There's also the scope to abuse the law or torture people which I wouldn't quite agree with.
They just need to define reasonable force a little better. Maybe 'deterring force'? 'Danger removal force'? 8)
As tempting as 'they're scum, anything goes' sounds - I'm not 100%

I think the balance as it stands is wrong, too far on the side of the aggressor.

There should be a very strong bias toward the victim (i.e the buglarised). Way I would word it is rather than you needing to show you used "reasonable force" the burglar would have to show that you used "excessive" force. And it would be applied such that you'd have to go medieval on them with a pair of pliers and a blowtorch to be considered to have used "excessive" measures.

I.e if they fall down the stairs 6 times, their problem, not yours.
But that is just how I would suggest it would be done in a fair world...


As it stands it's foolish to involve the police in matters of self protection. If someone breaks in, kick the sh** out of them. Call a mate with a van and dump them on the moors with strong assurances that if you see them again you'll do something unpleasant. Finding out where they live would be wise.

Of course it would be much safer to simply blow their head off with a 9 mil. But that's proper illegal that.

Do unto others before they do unto you, then f*** off before the police arrive.

[Lozzo]

As it stands it's foolish to involve the police in matters of self protection. If someone breaks in, kick the sh** out of them. Call a mate with a van and dump them on the moors with strong assurances that if you see them again you'll do something unpleasant. Finding out where they live would be wise.


When I was sharing a house with another bike owning chappie, we came to the agreement that if we ever caught anyone stealing our bikes, they would be taken into the woods close to where people walked their dogs every morning and buried in a pit with just their head showing. If they got rescued then lucky them, if they didn't then it was no great loss to society.

I wanted to bury them and then pour petrol on their head (without setting it alight) and see how they reacted, but my housie called me an evil b'stard and we compromised on just the burying bit

[Specialone]

When I was sharing a house with another bike owning chappie, we came to the agreement that if we ever caught anyone stealing our bikes, they would be taken into the woods close to where people walked their dogs every morning and buried in a pit with just their head showing. If they got rescued then lucky them, if they didn't then it was no great loss to society.

I wanted to bury them and then pour petrol on their head (without setting it alight) and see how they reacted, but my housie called me an evil b'stard and we compromised on just the burying bit

Extreme but im sure its effective :)

[ophic]

...buglarised...
Now there's a pet hate american word. Suddenly burglars become burglarisers, and their victims suffer from burglarisation.

Try 'burgled' ;)

[yorkie_chris]

Sorry #-o

[Lozzo]

You buggeriser

[Biker Biggles]

Actually if you got "buglarised" you would probably be deaf from listening to a military brass instrument.
If you got buggerised you would have a sore ar&e

[Red Herring]

I'll stand to be corrected by someone who knows the act and section but I'm fairly sure that it's not illegal to keep a baseball bat, large spanner, or even a clutch holding tool ready to hand in your home even with the specific intent of using it to defend yourself.

I think people are becoming confused with the offensive weapon legislation which makes possession of such an article with that intent illegal, but that legislation specifically says you have to be in a public place, not in your home.

It's not just a case of what you use, but how and why you use it that is important. Even in your home and under the circumstances described you need to show that you used reasonable force and only to the extent that it was necessary. I guess if the OP can show that he was in genuine fear and that he needed the element of surprise to make his use of force effective I guess he will be OK, especially as he only seems to have caused minor injury. Mind you I think there must be more to this than is being reported. Did the Op ring the police to report his break in?

[dizzyblonde]

When I was sharing a house with another bike owning chappie, we came to the agreement that if we ever caught anyone stealing our bikes, they would be taken into the woods close to where people walked their dogs every morning and buried in a pit with just their head showing. If they got rescued then lucky them, if they didn't then it was no great loss to society.

I wanted to bury them and then pour petrol on their head (without setting it alight) and see how they reacted, but my housie called me an evil b'stard and we compromised on just the burying bit


I know of one person who, after he caught someone in the act nicking all his tools out of the garage, loaded the git in a van, with a nail gun, into town and nailed the so and so's hands to the floor....so it was told.
But that was in the day when people did that sort of stuff, wouldn't get away with it now though.

[Biker Biggles]

Or did he complain that he had been buggerised?That would surely get the Bill round to see him if only for the comedy content?

[G]

This is one of the few scenarios where I would quite possibly, from fear and rage, beat someone to death.

PRotecting my home falls under the same category as protecting my family... any means possible, being 'reasonable' goes out of the window.

Jail or no jail.

There was a chap in Leicester recently that killed a burgular, he went to jail for 1 month but was released on appeal.

[AndyBrad]

ok a chap at work has recently got done for gbh for shall we say "gently persuading" a youth that broke into his house at 3am to stay there while the police arrive.

This is wrong. However burrying somone, almost killing them or "going medeval" on them is not right either. By doing that your lowering yourself to just above "scum" and becoming "thug" material. However this may be because i dont know somone with a van....

[dizzyblonde]

However this may be because i dont know somone with a van....

....and if you did know someone with a van, you'd strip burglar bare, stuff a pair of smelly socks in his gob, gaffer him to the floor of van, take him ont Saddleworth and chuck him out....wouldn't you Andy....

[AndyBrad]

No comment,


zip ties and i wouldnt strip him.

[PsychoCannon]

Funny thing is you never really know how you'll react until it happens and it's actually a very VERY strong emotional event.

Though I find living near fields or woodland help :)
Live near a pig farm and your sorted!