Making My Clutch "Lighter"

[hongman]

Hi all

At first, I thought my clutch was fine (and it is as far as I know) - what I am talking about here is the effort required to pull it in.

Just had a squeeze on my mates new XT660 and what a difference...its so much lighter/easier to pull in.

Is there anything I can do to improve this on my SV ('02 S)?

I did a search as Im sure this has probably been mentioned somewhere else, but all I can find is clutch issues + adjustment. I'm happy with where the biting point is (about midway out), just want to be lazy about pulling it in lol.

Now I know I can WD40 the clutch cable, but I'm also sure I read somewhere that something at the other end that gets gunked up over time and requires a good clean + greasing. Vauge recollection of loose bearing too, or something like that?

Ta muchly.

[rictus01]

probably needs a new cable (about £12-15), but a hydraulic cable oiler will ease it somewhat.

Link. (http://www.mandp.co.uk/productinfo/523838/Workshop/Cable-Oilers/Mr-Fastner/Cable-Oiler-Hydraulic)

the worm drive of the adjuster (under the front sprocket cover can be re-greased if it becomes dry.

[the_lone_wolf]

WD40 isn't a lubricant, it's a water disperser

Use a proper clutch line lube, all WD40 will do is strip any existing grease out

Other than that all you could do is redesign the clutch system so it's not almost a decade old...;)

Or if you fancy a challenge fit a hydraulic clutch - the one on mine is dreamy smooth and light despite having to handle almost x2 the torque of the SV

[rictus01]

Oh and if you do take the worm drive to bits, watchout you don't drop the ball bearings out all over the place.

Mark is correct, use engine oil, works fine.

[hongman]

Learn something new everyday! I always thought WD was a lube, its slippery afterall!

The worm drive is what I think I was on about. Off to search.

[hongman]

For future searchers:

http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=151445&highlight=grease+worm+drive

[the_lone_wolf]

Learn something new everyday! I always thought WD was a lube, its slippery afterall!
To a point it is, but it's primary design purpose is to displace water. There's usually something better to use...

[Sid Squid]

Echo the above - the SVs clutch is commendably light, if yours is heavy something is wrong.
The first thing I'd do is disconnect both ends of the cable and push/pull the inner, does it move easily? If yes then the other bits of the assembly need attention, grease the lever and pivot and check the lifter. If no then remove the cable from the bike and straighten it, does it move easily now? If yes then the routing may not be right, or the outer cable may be kinked. If no then consider replacing it, once a cable is damaged it's never going to be smooth and light.

[hongman]

Ah, its good to know the SV clutch is light when everything is working properly.

It's make it a lot easier on my wrist too ;) While I am still "building" it back up.

Should be collecting the bike tomorrow from my mates house, I'll have a tinker then, and see what's going on!

[Viney]

To a point it is, but it's primary design purpose is to displace water. There's usually something better to use...3 in one :)

[andrewsmith]

probably needs a new cable (about £12-15), but a hydraulic cable oiler will ease it somewhat.

Link. (http://www.mandp.co.uk/productinfo/523838/Workshop/Cable-Oilers/Mr-Fastner/Cable-Oiler-Hydraulic)

the worm drive of the adjuster (under the front sprocket cover can be re-greased if it becomes dry.

are the hydraulic oiler better than the cheaper 1's

[ophic]

Similar problem since adjusting my clutch. It had worn so the bite point was near the handlebar, which made it nice and easy to operate but it started to get a bit hard finding neutral.

After adjusting the lever I'm finding the whole thing a lot harder, and after a ride around London at the weekend, my hand is still slightly sore - so now I need to check all the points mentioned here.

I guess what I'm saying is, if everything turns out to be ok and well lubed etc, try adjusting the bite point so it's a bit closer to the bar.

[andrewsmith]

Similar problem since adjusting my clutch. It had worn so the bite point was near the handlebar, which made it nice and easy to operate but it started to get a bit hard finding neutral.

After adjusting the lever I'm finding the whole thing a lot harder, and after a ride around London at the weekend, my hand is still slightly sore - so now I need to check all the points mentioned here.

I guess what I'm saying is, if everything turns out to be ok and well lubed etc, try adjusting the bite point so it's a bit closer to the bar.

I think mine is getting like that quick fiddle b4 a go out mite do the trick. Neutral depends upon what boots am wearing

[beabert]

Oiling what do much if the anti stick liner has worn out, buy a new cable, very cheap.

[NedSVS]

Echo the above - the SVs clutch is commendably light, if yours is heavy something is wrong.


I recently converted my SV650S (2001) to hydraulic using TL1000R parts. It's slightly better than cable, but not much. A brand new genuine cable and there would be next to nothing in it I guess. So I'm still not happy with it and Sids' quote "the SVs clutch is commendably light, if yours is heavy something is wrong" has me a little concerned. I have owned my bike since new and it has over 36000 miles on it, so I know it is standard. The clutch works perfectly still, but is still heavier than I would like. Is it time for a clutch strip and inspect I wonder?

[ophic]

Would a powerball help?

[NedSVS]

Would a powerball help?

Afraid not, infact only make it worse as my joints are in a bad way.

[hongman]

Ok, did some work tonight.

Took the clutch cable off. Laid out straight it's as stiff as a stiff thing. Lucky I have on the way, not even going to waste oil on it, just going to bin it.

Hopefully with the new one fit it'll make things a lot smoother.

The push rod thingy is properly gunked oup too, shame the fading light means you cant really see it.

One thing I did notice though with all the fairings off.

The engine oil window looks...empty. Bike was upright, hadnt been started. I even leant it over some more, still nothing.

Now when I bought the bike, it definately showed oil. At the crash, there was only a very small puddle of petrol on the road. I called my buddy, and there is no puddle of oil in his garage. No oil on the lower fairings. So....wtf?

Pics:

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/4243/clutchpushrod.jpg (http://img249.imageshack.us/i/clutchpushrod.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/1525/engineoil.jpg (http://img189.imageshack.us/i/engineoil.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/5946/lhsstrip.jpg (http://img832.imageshack.us/i/lhsstrip.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

So...

Tomorrow I am going to Halfrauds nice and early before Mark turns up to get some:

"Normal" Grease if there is such a thing (for the clutch pivot points etc)
Engine Oil (Semi-Synth 10w40 wasnt it?)
Some kind of gunk cleaner
Toothbrush
Chain lube
Parafin? Heard its good for cleaning the chain, although it looks ok to me at the mo

Thoughts?

[Holdup]

Multi purpose grease will do the job

Yes but recommened you dont mix if you dont know whats in there, maybe best to do a full oil + filter change

Id use a bit of brake cleaner (but not on the chain) or parrafin as gunk cleaner and the parafin does a good job of cleaning the chain

Oh and +1 to what Rictus said, watch out for the bearings on the worm drive, did mine the other day and they kept escaping

[andrewsmith]

play it safe and drop the oil.
Multi purpose is spot on

[hongman]

Well!

Today I pulled the old cable out and gave it a good oiling, and cleaned/regreased the shaft thing with the loose bearings. Also cleaned up the pushrod which was about 5 times its real size with crap.

Rictus came round as promised and what can I say...the man is a bloody legend. I learnt more from him in the time he was with me than I would have anywhere else!!

Thank you so much!!

So the story unfolds...

Clutch cable is shagged. Luckily new one already on the way.

The mystery oil disappearance - was in the airbox. Cleaned up, but the K&N Filter now needs cleaning as it socked some of the oil up.

Rear wheel was just slightly out of alignment, and chain just a little too slack. Both sorted now, as well as chain lubed up.

Dropped the oil and did an oil change, old oil was well past its best.

Mark measured the forks and discovered they were about 4mm out of sync, slightly twisted. Didnt rectify, he said it wasnt noticeable and could wait til my changed the fork oil.

Which leads nicely to the next point...fork oil needs going. Probably never been done in the 24.5k miles it has on it!

Front tyres definately needs replacing, Mark noticed small cracks round the edge of the tyre. Rear is squared off which explains the tipping sensation, but "will be ok"...probably going to change it anyway.

Drilled a hole through the rear brake lever and stuck a bolt in there as a temp fix.

Greased up all the bolts we removed as almost all of them were dry as a bone!

Mark took it for a spin round the block and seemed happy about the general running of the bike, which is great news!

I think that covers it all. Once again, Mark, I owe you one. I will hold dear my promise to you that when the time comes I will impart my advice carefully to those that need it.

So, everything bolted back on (except lowers, which would only have to come off again when the clutch cable comes)...I gave in and set out to take her for a spin.

Was very, very edgy at first. Much smoother, but edgy. Got to Tesco's with the intention of filling up and checking tyre pressures. First bit down then realised the previously free air is now a pay one. Bugger.

At Tesco's, could NOT for the life of me get it into Neutral. Let the clutch bite a bit, still nothing. Ended up purposely stalling the bike and then it flicked into N right away. Hmm.

Rode to a BP garage by the motorway, and same story. Hmm.

Somehow eneded up on the M11, M25...and somewhere along the way I decided to pay my mate a visit, and complete the journey I was making when I came off.

Quick chat, headed back the back roads. Oh my. Loved every minute of it. Confidence back, tyres seemed much sticker (warmed up perhaps?) and enjoyed the ride home. Didnt push it, stuck to legal limits. Also didnt feel comfortable filtering on the motorway, not that there was much traffic.

All going so well, wrist holding up better than I thought. Right near my house, going from 2nd to 1st for a rolling exit, thats when it happened. Instead of 1st it hit N and I almost dropped the bike. Almost. But that didnt do my wrist any favours :( Oh, managed to get a bug smash me in the eye lol. Mildly irritating, but nothing major.

Soooo

All that is left to do now is (no particular order)

1. Clutch cable
2. Rear Brake Lever
3. Air Filter
4. Front and Rear Tyres
5. Renew fork oil
6. New Sump Washer (found a tiny drop of oil tonight just before I has got on it, tightened the sump a bit more but just to be safe

One happy chap.

Big thanks to Mark!:smt035 And of course the rest of the org!

[barwel1992]

cool glad its nearly sorted

just so you know i had an mt-03 and xt660x (same engine) both had very light clutches but not much different to the sv but i have a pointy so might be diff as yours is obviously a curvy.

if you fancy it a sv1000 hydro clutch fits, you will need the clutch push rod as well as the slave cylinder and master cylinder, the push rod need 12mm (i think or 17 rings a bell) cutting off then just bolt it all up bleed the system and thats it ;)

[rictus01]

Nice to meet you Hong, glad I was able to be of some help, at least you know what needs doing and in what priority, and the bike seems generally safe, you have my number now, so get stuck, just shout or post up.


whilst a hydraulic conversion is possible it's not a great improvement over the standard item iwhen well maintained, and a waste of money.

Cheers Mark.

[barwel1992]

whilst a hydraulic conversion is possible it's not a great improvement over the standard item iwhen well maintained, and a waste of money.

Cheers Mark.

i agreed that the standard item is just as good.

The worm drive does in deed need maintaining mine was very dry when i checked it over, so i removed it and removed all the bearings and the slide (mine was a pain to get out ?) then gave it a deep clean. Greased it back up with lithium water proof bearing grease. The action is much smoother although i think i need a new cable.

[yorkie_chris]

Hydraulic clutches can feel bloody horrible even when healthy

[hongman]

Well, just bit the bullet and bought a new Avon Storm 2 Ultra for the front, and a part worn (5-6mm left iirc) Avon Storm 2 Ultra rear off a member here.

That should sort the rubbers out!

Also bought a tub of Tesco Ready Mixed Anti-Freeze and Summer Coolant as that needed topping up. It says "Protects all types of engine" so I assume its ok.

[andrewsmith]

i would be careful as it may damage the bike ally block.

[yorkie_chris]

Chances are supermeerkat stuff is safe for ally.

[hongman]

Thank you :)

[Sid Squid]

Hydraulic clutches can feel bloody horrible even when healthy
True.
The the manner of operating it isn't really relevant.

[Stu]

Well, just bit the bullet and bought a new Avon Storm 2 Ultra for the front, and a part worn (5-6mm left iirc) Avon Storm 2 Ultra rear off a member here.

That should sort the rubbers out!

Also bought a tub of Tesco Ready Mixed Anti-Freeze and Summer Coolant as that needed topping up. It says "Protects all types of engine" so I assume its ok.
Completely depends on what's in there to begin with. You can't mix different colours of coolant.

[hongman]

Aha.

Well, the coolant in the bike currently is green. No idea what the coolant colour of the Tesco one is, never opened it yet.

Maybe its worth me doing a full flush and change anyway, as I dont know how old the current stuff is?

[andrewsmith]

most coolant has a green tinge.
That sounds like very new coolant tbh as coolant goes yellow/ creamy as it ages

[hongman]

Well back into the topic of my clutch I have managed to **** something up, I think.

New clutch cable arrived today, great. Nipped home as I was passing by with the intention of spending 15 mins swapping the cable, and finishing the day on the bike.

Removed the old cable, fitted new, then realised that the cable was too long. Even at full adjustment it wasnt even engaging the clutch...checked paperwork and I had ordered a N cable. Pillock.

No bother, methinks, just stick the old one on. And that is what I did.

However, no matter how I adjust it, as soon as I click into first the bike tries to lurch forward and stalls.

My understanding is the bottom end adjustment controls how much cable is actually pulled, and the lever end controls the biting point?

Whichever way I adjusted, same thing happened. Started with the bottom end nut fully wound in to fully out with the top locknut following. Played with lever end, all that did was make the lever incrdedibly stiff.

Started to rain a bit, and after 45 mins I got the hump and just covered the bike back up.

What am I doing wrong?!

[rictus01]

if you get stuck mate, give me a shout, I've a couple of emergency cable inners, that will do the job for now, but you do need a replacement one.

Oh and drain all your coolant (lowest bolt on the water pump), the Tesco's ready mix coolant is fine to use.

Cheers Mark.

[hongman]

Cheers Mark. I didnt realise the inner cable could be removed etc?

Strange strange thing...

I called the shop I bought it from to get another cable sent asap.

They are telling me that they sell the same cable for both N and S versions, and lots of them, without any complaints.

They asked me to get a measurement of the old cable and tell them so they can double check with the manufacturer....anyone happen to know what it is?

Problem is I'm at the office with the new cable, but no tape measure, and the old cable is at home.

Getting very confused and frustrated now :(

[barwel1992]

im not sure how a N cable would make a difference as the cable outer is held at both ends so the inner cable must follow the contore of outer cable so it should just pull the worm drive not matter how long the cable is as long as the outer cable matches the inner cable length properly (the inner should be longer but not to long)

[yorkie_chris]

The action at either end is exactly the same, N or S.

You adjusted it wrong somehow, only possibility.

[hongman]

I'm going to have another crack at it tonight then.

I dont get it though if I'm honest -as in what I did wrong.

Even with the bottom adjuster at full length (i.e, alsmost all the thread showing on the upper part of the arm, and the bottom nut at the end of the thread) it still feels waaay too slack.

I then adjusted the lever end all the way out (although I know I shouldnt have to) and the lever is still all flimsy...I can literally flick it about.

???

[barwel1992]

you could need to adjust the worm drive for the new cable

ohh and to test it i wouldn't try and start the bike and put it in gear, that could go very wrong, with the bike off kick it in to gear and see if with the clutch pulled in if it will roll if it does the clutch is working, then you can start the bike up (in neutral) and see if the clutch works properly and adjust it accordingly

[rictus01]

standard cables don't have removable inners, but emergency ones come with a variety of nipples to attach to the end so it can be threaded.

I'm not up your way this week, but if you manage to get the old one on and get down to Soho friday evening, I'll bring some tools and fit the new one for you.

Cheers Mark.

[Sid Squid]

I think there's a post 'round here somewhere that mentions clutch adjustment.

Maybe.

[hongman]

Thank you everyone.

Barwell, good idea. Was actually a bit worried I'd flatten the battery like this and hadnt thought of the simple stuff.

I adjusted the worm drive as I SS suggested in another thread, which was to turn the screw until resistenace is felt, 1/8th turn back, and then nip the nut up.

Mark, thanks for the offer, but it seems the liklihood is the new cable I have is fine, I'm just doing it wrong. Assuming that is the case, I am going to solely try to get the new one working first. If I can, great, if not then I'll see how much time I have to fiddle with the old cable.

I'll give it one more go during the week, or even tonight if the rain clouds stop looking so threatening!

[hongman]

THIS IS UTTER BS

Just had another quick gander, and I cannot see anyway this cable will work. As said before even at full tilt on the engine end adjuster, there is just far too much slack.

Measured with a tape measure (rough):

New cable:

Sleeve: 102cm
Cable: 118cm

Original Cable:

Sleeve: 88cm
Cable: 100cm

****ing piece of ****

The new cable is about 18cm longer than the old one. Or am I going mad.

[rictus01]

there's no way the adjustment will take up that much, they have sent you the wrong one, send it back.

In fact the new cable should be fractionally shorter as your old one has stretched a bit.

Cheers Mark.

[hongman]

Thanks, least I know I was not doing something stupidly silly.

FFS :(

[yorkie_chris]

18cm? I don't think there is that much difference between N and S, you got a cable for a different bike?

[hongman]

I would hazard so, YC.

The part number on the packaging indicates what seems to be the right part number, I can only assume the wrong cable was put in there.

FWIW the part number was 427675.

I just bought another, albeit with the same part #, from somewhere else. Hopefully this turns out to be the right one. I can see 10 of these have been sold with good reviews so...fingers crossed.

Described as "SUZUKI SV 650 1999-2002 ALL MODELS"

[hongman]

What the fark...

Other seller reckons his cable is the same as the wrong one I have...

[hongman]

Update.

I called in to explain the situation and the guy did some rooting around.

He checked his parts book himself and read out a different part number: 427838 (I think).

When I asked him what 427675 was...he said it didnt exist in his database. Yet that very part number is listed on several websites including their own as the cable to use for all SV650/S's 99-02.

I asked him if he could do a quick measurement of this other part number that's come up, see if its at least closer, and I'm to call back later this afternoon.

Very confusing....anyone happen to know 100% what the part # is?

How bloody hard can it be to order a replacement clutch cable.

[yorkie_chris]

well somethings off to c*ck then because the S cables are different to N ones.

[hongman]

This is the one that is checking this out for me:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390093479167&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123

This is the original one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150360875994&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

Who do you guys normally get your cables from <.<

[andrewsmith]

i would use wemoto or a dealer if it was in stock and not overpriced
every1 has their perference

[hongman]

I looked at wemoto, but their prices are high, nearly double.

Wellllll, guy reckons he definately has the right part, so one more chance. If not, I'll go straight to a dealer/wemoto.

What a faff! The weather has cleared up as well, sun is out.

[hongman]

LOL

" Hi part number 427838 as been superseded to 427675 so the cable is no good to you and we will refund you!"

Wemoto it is.

[yorkie_chris]

try robinsons foundry. Specify an S model cable.

Check the part number on ron ayers parts fiche.

[hongman]

I did, but no luck, unless I'm looking at the wrong place.

http://fiche.ronayers.com/Index.cfm/Module/Main/TypeID/26/Type/Motorcycle/MakeID/2/Make/Suzuki/YearID/43/Year/2002/ModelID/6458/Model/SV650/GroupID/269463/Group/CLUTCH

Cant see any references to cable.

However, RF gave me a different part number altogether!

58200-19F00 - this is specifically the S version.

Fingers crossed...once again.

[yorkie_chris]

http://fiche.ronayers.com/Index.cfm/Module/Main/TypeID/26/Type/Motorcycle/MakeID/2/Make/Suzuki/YearID/43/Year/2002/ModelID/6458/Model/SV650/GroupID/269452/Group/HANDLE_BAR_SV650SX_SY_SK1_SK2

I have no idea what those numbers you quoted earlier were in reference to.

You have made simple job very hard work!

[hongman]

I know! I'm not sure how though!

Maybe its just me aye?? Those 472xxx part numbers were all given to me by various bike shops, found on google and ebay....feck knows. And other people seem to have bought those no problems.

Like I said though, no idea how I have managed to make buying a replacement clutch cable so difficult!

[hongman]

Its not just me...

http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?p=2330826#post2330826

Thank you sinbad, I feel like less of a tard now. We should be friends.

[hongman]

Well, wasnt planning on working on the bike but evening was going slowly...

Fitted the new clutch cable (right one!) and it was as it should be - a doddle.

Too late to start the bike to check but as Barwel suggested, stuck it in 1st and with the clucth pulled in I can still move the bike. Quite a bit more resistance mind, but going at a slow walking pace, if I release the clucth slowly I can feel the bite up until it wont move at all with the clutch fully out.

Biting point seems to be around midway, fine by me.

Sat on the bike, squeezing away (at the lever...) and pretty much zero pain. Definately smoother and lighter as one would expect.

Thanks everyone!

[barwel1992]

nice one :D

[TamSV]

Glad you got it sorted!

Did you get the cable from wemoto in the end? Has it got the metal curve on it?

I think I'm going to need to get one, and I'd rather not have the metal.

[andrewsmith]

glad to here it is sorted!

I'll probably be doing mine over the winter

[hongman]

Glad you got it sorted!

Did you get the cable from wemoto in the end? Has it got the metal curve on it?

I think I'm going to need to get one, and I'd rather not have the metal.

Yes and Yes - the one from wemoto is exactly the same as my old one as far as I can tell.

Feels soooo much better

[rictus01]

So just about sorted then.

[hongman]

Got some time today to check my new clutch properly.

Started her up, 1st gear, lurch forward and cut out.

Checked worm drive adjustment, and tried again a few times adjusting the cable eveytime. No luck.

Checked worm drive again, and noticed the point at which the screw hit the rod had changed! Is this normal?

Got it working finally, able to start up in gear with clutch in no probs.

But my cable adjustment at the engine end is fully utilised. Is this right?

Took it for a spin and it felt ok, just wary though that the slightest stretch and I already have no adjustment left.

Maybe someone could kindly just give the clutch a once over at the AR!

[hongman]

Uhm, well it seems that it still cuts out when I knock it into gear, but only when cold. I have to hold the brake and give it some extra revs to keep it from cutting out.

Once warmed up it seems fine.

Normal?