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Quedos
21-07-10, 10:54 AM
firstly its not me and its not IP despite being in plaster.

one of our new members threw his SV up the road 4 days after picking it up. Given that its only damaged and no thrid party involved does he need to inform the insurance company?
and If so will this affect car insurance premiums?

thanks in advance on behalf of a very silly little boy!:mad:

Drew Carey
21-07-10, 10:57 AM
Is he fully comp or TPO / TPFT?

Either way, I don't believe you need to inform them, unless he is fully comp and wishes to claim as the damage is extensive.

the_lone_wolf
21-07-10, 11:01 AM
Technically yes, he should inform them of ANY accident. In reality there is NO way they could find out unless the police attend or it makes the papers etc etc.

So in reality it's probably not worth it, I certainly wouldn't bother...

As for it affecting his car insurance it would vary from underwriter to underwriter, the only way to be sure would be to contact them - PITA and avoided by taking the advice from above^^^

carty
21-07-10, 11:20 AM
If no-one saw it it didn't happen

the_lone_wolf
21-07-10, 11:22 AM
If no-one saw it it didn't happen

Getting a bit philosophical now...

If an SV falls and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a noise?

Quedos
21-07-10, 11:24 AM
the boys damage his right clip bar indicator and fairings - low slide on roundabout - bike was minted only done 1800 miles - the fairing can be left (got the paint in the workshop somewhere ) but probably not going to exceed his excess.
See I personally wouldn't say anything the damage could be done by dropping it in his back yard ( which he did on sunday)

Stig
21-07-10, 11:30 AM
If no-one saw it it didn't happen

Or if no one bothered to stop and help more likely.

I had an accident many years ago where by I did not hit anyone, only road furniture. The police were involved. I never claimed from my insurance even though the bike was fully comp and there was no one to make a claim against me.

Or so I thought.

Years later (about 3) I received a letter from MIB stating a third party had attempted to make a claim against me for my bike accident and because my insurance company had no record of the accident, they refused to pay. MIB came after me as being involved in an accident without insurance. Eventually found out the third party was the highways agency who stuck in a claim to replace the section of barrier I had collided with.

Just saying this for anyone else who might be reading it. Before you decide not to inform your insurance company of the accident, be sure there are no other persons who are likely to make a claim. So yes, basically, if no one saw it, it didn't happen. :)

Tom_the_great
21-07-10, 11:33 AM
Or if no one bothered to stop and help more likely.

I had an accident many years ago where by I did not hit anyone, only road furniture. The police were involved. I never claimed from my insurance even though the bike was fully comp and there was no one to make a claim against me.

Or so I thought.

Years later (about 3) I received a letter from MIB stating a third party had attempted to make a claim against me for my bike accident and because my insurance company had no record of the accident, they refused to pay. MIB came after me as being involved in an accident without insurance. Eventually found out the third party was the highways agency who stuck in a claim to replace the section of barrier I had collided with.

Just saying this for anyone else who might be reading it. Before you decide not to inform your insurance company of the accident, be sure there are no other persons who are likely to make a claim. So yes, basically, if no one saw it, it didn't happen. :)

+1

alexh
21-07-10, 11:38 AM
Getting a bit philosophical now...

If an SV falls and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a noise?

Nothing philosophical about it, the SV fell over it made some vibrations in the matter that we call air but without any human to interpret the vibrations as noise, it did not make any noise.

independentphoto
21-07-10, 02:09 PM
Nothing philosophical about it, the SV fell over it made some vibrations in the matter that we call air but without any human to interpret the vibrations as noise, it did not make any noise.

But the bugs HEARD it.









.......taxi!

cb1000rsteve
21-07-10, 02:12 PM
I had a car accident when i was 18 and instead of telling the insurance etc i just paid to fix both cars as it was cheaper than the XS and got my years no claims. The police where involved and i went through a fence but i never had any come backs.
not claiming happens a lot nowadays as insurance XS and premiums are into the thousands for young drivers

Milky Bar Kid
21-07-10, 05:40 PM
According to the letter of the law, even though his accident is a non-reportable (meaning doesn't need to be reported to Police) as it is only his property that is damaged, he still needs to inform his insurance company.

However, if there are no witnesses, the police are not informed and its not in the papers then in reality, how will the insurance company find out?

Not that I am advocating this you understand??

-Ralph-
21-07-10, 05:44 PM
Tell him to get the bike fixed and keep his gob shut.

seedy100
21-07-10, 08:23 PM
As above.

Unless of course he enjoys a right royal shafting every year!

Bluefish
21-07-10, 08:32 PM
Tell him to get the bike fixed and keep his gob shut.

That's what i did ;)

northwind
23-07-10, 10:27 PM
That's what i did ;)

Me too, on a few occasions. It won't be economic to claim and they won't pay out a penny from the sounds of it as it's under the excess but they'll still record it and it'll still almost certainly weight his premiums. So yep, little white lie in the face of obvious crazy unfairness.

Bibio
24-07-10, 02:01 AM
so same applies if bike falls over while you are stationary coz you have slipped on something or if someone 'keys' your bike or car or if your bike falls over in the wind. personally i think its entirely up to the individual 'if' they claim or not and in no way can the insurance company's make you do so unless there is a third party involved. insurance company's are just that 'insurance'.

i would like to see it written in the small print that you have to 'legally' inform them if there is no third party involved.

yorkie_chris
24-07-10, 01:32 PM
He lowsided it on purpose. Not an accident any more :)

Insurance don't need to know.

madcockney
24-07-10, 05:04 PM
What you should and should not report is an interesting one. If I had to report every time somebody damaged, often deliberately, the mirrors on my car then I would be forever filling out forms. I think that the point here is when is it an accident and when isn't it. (I wish somebody would make a claim of damaging themselves on mine and other cars here as then we would have at least one name to report to the police.;) )

Several years ago when I was seeking contents insurance quotes I was asked by one insurer if I had ever made a claim, which I haven't. I was then asked if I hadn't made a claim, but could have at any time. I mentioned that a few years previously the electric to our area was disrupted due to a supply instance. I lost a small amount of food in the fridgefreezer, but never made a claim. I was told that it should be detailed as I could have made a claim and it could affect the insurers liability and hence the premium. (I assume that if this happens a lot even though not the insured fault then they have to load the premium accordingly.) The interesting point was that by not declaring this insurer stated that this could affect me if I should ever make any claim under the contents insurance. BTW I never went with them, and I do think they were being pedantic.

northwind
24-07-10, 07:44 PM
i would like to see it written in the small print that you have to 'legally' inform them if there is no third party involved.

You'll usually get asked if you've been involved in an accident as well as if you've made any claims when you do an insurance app. That's where things get sticky.

Bedhead
24-07-10, 07:56 PM
He lowsided it on purpose. Not an accident any more :)

Insurance don't need to know.

Then it's criminal damage! :):):)

Juju
25-07-10, 11:53 AM
The answer is yes he needs to report it. It's up to the rider if he does or not though.

His premiums are quoted on the basis of the information given at proposal. If he has a habit of losing control of his bike, and throwing it down the road, then just because on this occasion, it didn't hit anything, surely it's relevent to what he should be charged. Poor riders with lots of fault accidents,regardless of payout, should surely pay more than those excellent riders who dont?

So obviously if theres a culture of people not notifying their insurers, then those poor riders will eventually end up having more accidents than the good ones, potentially leading to payouts. Therefore the good riders end up subsidising the poor ones.

The essential element of the insurance contract is "utmost good faith". If you want to mislead or not declare things relevent to your insurance premium, then don't complain if the attitude of the companies is to avoid payment if and when they find out.

For example, if he threw his bike down the road, on his right side, and fails to declare same, (lets presume he's TPF&T), and then say next year, after his renewal say, his bike is stolen, does he expect the full value of the bike from the insurer? I bet he does. Will he say - "no, the bike was worth less, I'd damaged some panels and scratched the exhaust"? I'd wager not, and that, ladies and gentlemen, is insurance fraud, on the most basic level.

Lets also say he has then an accident which damages the left hand side. Insurance assessor comes out, and cannot work out why theres rhs damage. Reports the pre existing damage, to which the insurers immediuately wonder why. Can you look an assessor in the eye and lie? If the assessor asks the garage it was bought from (if he says it was pre existing damage),then theres an immediate material non disclosure of facts, and bingo, policy void, and upset rider.

Of course, sometimes when a bike is damaged, on tpf&t, they also tend to get "stolen", and if it gets recovered, again, this may trigger an investigation, as it's such a common scenario.

Really, there are very few insurance frauds that someone hasn't already thought about.

And to echo a previous poster - a third party can be anyone, including the slightly bruised pillion wife girlfriend who wasn't going to claim, but then you both split up in "difficult" curcumstances and a claim is made to "punish" the rider, or damage to street furniture, or simply the costs of clearing up a glass/oil spill from the local council. Only needs the farmer in the field to have taken the reg, and theres the identification.

All those who advocate not telling, are subsidising the premiums of bad riders. Of course, it's up to the honesty of the rider. Lets say however, that an insurance claims dept has bike riders, and they do a trawl of facebook/forums and find posts relating to the reg or a fb update status about the bump, again, another way to potentially be found out.

But then, I work in the industry, and would say that, wouldn't I!

yorkie_chris
26-07-10, 08:13 PM
Valid points, don't get caught ;)

For me, my bike is insured TPFT, I've given a reasonable value of what the bike is worth to me (including the fact that it's f*cked from multiple crashes, incurred on track days which are no business of the insurer). The value of a bike is the sum of its parts on eBay or what a similar condition replacement would cost.
I will look any assessor, or a judge, in the eye and stick to that.

Imagine if you rang your insurance to report a crash on a trackday but make no claim! They'd have a heart attack in shock!