(rant) PC World, why does it exist?

[metalangel]

Seriously, why does it even exist? I went in looking for three things:

OEM Windows 7 Home
ArmA2
Firewire 400 to 800 adaptor

Could I find ANY of these? NO. Were there any staff around? Not really. The games section was cluttered and disorganized, their only copies of Windows 7 (extra expensive edition) were tucked away on a low shelf surrounded by copies of Office (as opposed to, say, on a big rack next to the colossal Windows 7 demonstration area) and I have a larger and more varied collection of cables than they had on sale.

At least in Maplin the guy knew what I was trying to do but said they didn't sell an adaptor for it, only an entirely new cable costing £18.99 (which like my existing Firewire cable would be used ONCE) but crucially THERE WAS A GUY. WHO BREATHED THROUGH HIS NOSE. AND KNEW ABOUT THE STUFF HE SOLD.

Honestly, if you want software there's Amazon and Ebuyer, if you want hardware there's Maplin and Dabs. If you want an actual computer, fleabay. The high street is dying because it's a load of complete crap.

http://angrydome.net/angry_dome.jpg

[hindle8907]

PC world are over priced and 90% of them dont know what they are talking about.
I often use scan for hardware. maplin still tent to be on the expensive side too imo.

O yeah and 3/10 on your rant.

[kwak zzr]

the only thing i can think off is Curry's own them and they must keep them afloat lol

[tigersaw]

If you dont want an RJ45 lead for £9.99 you are not the type of customer they require

[ravingdavis]

If you dont want an RJ45 lead for £9.99 you are not the type of customer they require

£9.99 that is a bargain mate, they have 15 metre cables for in excess of 40 quid.

[barwel1992]

where you went wrong was going in to pc world in the first place .....

[hindle8907]

£9.99 that is a bargain mate, they have 15 metre cables for in excess of 40 quid.

40quid you could get enough cable and connectors to last a life time for that just crimp your own ends on.

[ravingdavis]

40quid you could get enough cable and connectors to last a life time for that just crimp your own ends on.

You could buy the bloody crimping tool within that price too. Its robbery but they would only price it like that if some mug was paying it.

[metalangel]

where you went wrong was going in to pc world in the first place .....

Yeah, I know, but I figured I might get lucky and see a bundle for Arma2 with the new addon, as well as having the discs to hand today to install at home tonight.

You could buy the bloody crimping tool within that price too. Its robbery but they would only price it like that if some mug was paying it.

Very true. Back in the dark days (2002), when wifi was still new and weak and slow, and Homeplugs cost a fortune, we bought a big spool of networking cable and the crimping tool, and wired up our big shared house.

[timwilky]

I tend to use Scan as they are just down the road, so if anything turns out dodgy, I can get it back to them same day for exchange/refund etc.

[Gabriel2k]

PC World make money from people that arent really into computers and will buy the crap they come out with. Who in their right mind would pay somebody else to install software on their PC?

[Viney]

Its something to do at lunchtime when its raining. Go in and find an assistant and ask them for a laugh that you have £500 to spend on a PC or Laptop what do they recomend etc, i laugh and i dont know a massive amount about computers but enough to know they DONT! I did get a great deal on my portable HDD from them though Couldnt beat it online anywhere and could pick it up that day, so not always bad

[barwel1992]

Who in their right mind would pay somebody else to install software on their PC?

who in there right mind would buy a pre built computer.

[flymo]

who in there right mind would buy a pre built computer.

I would.

[ravingdavis]

who in there right mind would buy a pre built computer.

Someone who cannot be bothered with the hassle of building the machine themselves, fault finding if a component is problematic and requires a warranty that covers the entire system and not each individual component.

Having said that, I have never bought a pre-built system.

[flymo]

Someone who cannot be bothered with the hassle of building the machine themselves, fault finding if a component is problematic and requires a warranty that covers the entire system and not each individual component.

Having said that, I have never bought a pre-built system.

Exactly, it also helps when you have 120,000 of them to build and deploy.

[barwel1992]

I would.

Why ? you could build a superior system for the same price as a pre built system. Also you know its built out of quality parts and not the mostly substandard parts in a pre built.

Someone who cannot be bothered with the hassle of building the machine themselves, fault finding if a component is problematic and requires a warranty that covers the entire system and not each individual component.

Having said that, I have never bought a pre-built system.

id rather have individual warranty, also most of the time individual warranty is twice as long as the usual pre built warranty


its just my opinion but you'd be mad in my mind to buy a pre built (excluding lap tops)

[barwel1992]

Exactly, it also helps when you have 120,000 of them to build and deploy.

if you are talking about business situations then i agree pre builds are good idea.

but for the home i dont think they are cost effective or flexible

[yorkie_chris]

who in there right mind would buy a pre built computer.

Cheaper to buy a dell than buy all the same parts.

[ravingdavis]

id rather have individual warranty, also most of the time individual warranty is twice as long as the usual pre built warranty

All well and good if you have the time, skills and tools required to diagnose and replace faulty components. For people with full time jobs and no interest in computers other than their function pre-built systems make the most sense.

[454697819]

Cheaper to buy a dell than buy all the same parts.

when you buy dell though you have to budget for two... one for now and one to buy another brand a year later.

[Viney]

who in there right mind would buy a pre built computer.Not everyone has the know how, time, effort, motivation or money. I want to upgrade my PC (Motherboard, processor, ram, Pws), i have a limited budget and it works out cheaper for me to buy a case only unit than build it myself

I knwo that Dell whent through a few issues but the Dell on my deask at work is 4 years old and hardware sie is still happy doing whats asked of it.

[Messie]

Sorry to be the voice of dissent here but I quite like PC world and I'm a bit cheesed off with Maplins.

I know a little about computers and tend to research stuff before I go in. Then when I ask the youngsters silly questions I have an idea of whether they know as much or more than me. I also think that they can be good for complete starters (which everyone was once). I can't fault the prices either, but only on basic comparisons.
Maplins on the other hand, are cloying in their over helpfullness. Why do they think I want to chat to them about everything? They say, both in store and on the phone, that they have stuff but then strangely they haven't.

[barwel1992]

Cheaper to buy a "dell" than buy all the same parts.

not in the long run as you cant upgrade most dell computers.

All well and good if you have the time, skills and tools required to diagnose and replace faulty components. For people with full time jobs and no interest in computers other than their function pre-built systems make the most sense.

i sort of agree where you are going with this.

but most PC shops will build a PC to your spec with what you want/ need and they will use quality pars and test them for you. its not a pre built. and its the best of both worlds !

[yorkie_chris]

I'm typing on one that has probably been on, continuously for 350/352 weeks in the last year. I've got a laptop that's 4 years old, fair enough the battery's F'd. MYC has one perfectly functioning which is slightly younger.

You lot saying dell are so crap have either got more money than sense or you use your laptops as a f***in mallet.

What is to go wrong on a desktop PC? By time you have bought all parts you get for £300 on dell, you have spent £600 on other system anyway which is no more reliable. Go do maths on buying parts, I invite you to prove me wrong :)

Only thing I will say about dell is they come with 200weight of bloatware on there as standard. First thing I did with all of them is to put fresh OS on.

[yorkie_chris]

not in the long run as you cant upgrade most dell computers.

You've got a case and power supply? Build owt you want in it when you want to upgrade.

I put fresh RAM in this one, as I was doing more FEA work. Worked fine.

tell me why you can't upgrade it? It is a desktop PC, pull old bits out, put new bits in :confused:


If you're going to spend £2k on latest geeking machine, then sure, better to build you own. £300 getting custom system at PC shop gets you 5/8ths of fook all.

[Viney]

350/352 weeks in the last year. Where are you working Saturn?

[yorkie_chris]

Where are you working Saturn?

I'm tired leave me alone!

Maybe I meant 50/52...

[Viney]

:lol:

[barwel1992]

i never sead they were crap, from me experience they do ok with reliability a part from my dell desk top pc that i had blew one PSU 2 ram slots and 2 ram modules about 2 weeks out of warranty.

but there business lap tops are hard as nails i have had mine for 3 years, droped it down stairs and not missed a beat. and is on 24/7 ok it gone through 2 charger one battery and the disc drive is fuba but it cost me £200 and is great for what i use it for.

and YC ever think about the reason the dell's are so cheep ? because the parts that are used are very very basic. the PSU's can just run the system where as mine has 250w+ over head, it might have 4gb of ram but its running at 400mhz un like mine at 1200mhz . comes with a basic graphics card.

for me the biggest point is you cant over clock them, mines got a hefty OC and runs faster than some of the much more expensive dells that are even more expensive than mine was new.

[barwel1992]

You've got a case and power supply? Build owt you want in it when you want to upgrade.


but thats just like building your own pc ... lol

have you ever tried to change a processor in a dell ? i have and it didn't go well

[ravingdavis]

but thats just like building your own pc ... lol

have you ever tried to change a processor in a dell ? i have and it didn't go well

I have, tis easy they use the standard socket dictated by Intel/AMD. Their cooling systems are proprietary but manageable.

[barwel1992]

yes the sockets are but most of the mother boards are locked to that chip, well the ones i have come a cross have been. had to go through the haste of messing with bios

[timwilky]

As an IT manager within a company that owns over 42,000 PCs. We Buy Dell.

We can get volume discounts, built to a spec that is maintained. So that kit we buy this year and use a standard build on, is exactly the same next year. We no longer fix dead PCs. Simply call in the man from Dell.

However, our servers. We used to buy Compaq. Now we buy IBM. Our hi capacity cluster had 128 quad core XEON. But I think they are looking to upgrade it.

The thing is IBM/Dell come to use. We don't go out to PC world etc.

[slark01]

I nip into PC world when i've been to halfords just for a laugh as they are next door to each other. PCworld I believe is for people with little knowledge of computers or where to go to get a better, cheaper one. Dell PC's are sturdy machines but DO use very basic parts. I personally build my own after searching for what I want out of my PC, be it gaming or a work horse. SCAN is a great place to go as they have a very large range of products at reasonable prices ( what a plug heh, lol ).
As for peripherals, there are alot of places on the net that are cheaper and you can get advice from.
My advice would be...find someone you personally know that can build PC's and get them to build you one.
I've done that for friends and now they build their own ( wife builds them too ).

Ste.

[metalangel]

Well now Amazon has bounced my order back three times because it's just not saving my card details properly (it made my mother's birthday present late because of this!) and then saying the payment has not been approved.

I'm so narked off as I wanted my copy of Windows 7 tomorrow so I can Boot Camp my Macbook that I might well end up going back to PC World and paying the extra £10 just to have the damned thing after all. GRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[flymo]

We use Dell on thousands of pcs, I use one myself. I've been to the production line in Ireland and watched them build them, very carefully from quality controlled parts. The consumer components and business laptop components are from the very same parts bins, the computers are built by the same people on the same lines. Nothing wrong with them at all.

I have no reason to build my own laptop or desktop nor would I want to. For the same reason I dont walk into a timber yard to buy wood and build my own furniture.

Just because I dont make the same choices as you does not make me mad , btw.

[-Ralph-]

Just posted a response to this and it has disappeared :mad:

Basically I was saying that PC would ought to get looked into by the authorities and the likes of watchdog. They are ripping off and raping the average consumer who doesn't know any better. £9.99 for a CAT5 cable! Even the product descriptions on most of the packaging are either misleading or just downright lies. Look at this

http://www.pcwb.co.uk/catalogue/item/BELCA052

"Belkin Internet Modem Cable delivers a signal 10 times faster and stronger than the standard cable."

Then tell me how that is going to make a 56K modem 10 times faster? Or a broadband router capable of max 20Mbps, go any faster than the standard cable that came with the device. The only thing that will get faster is if you replace a faulty or inappropriate cable that is causing signal problems. The cable BT have run to the back of your BT socket, isn't much of an upgrade on doorbell wire! Yet people see it on the shelf and buy it thinking it's an upgrade to what they have and might sort out their slow internet.

PC World are no better than the pikeys you see on rogue traders, telling someone they need a new roof, then charging thrice the price, for work that didn't need doing.

[metalangel]

@flymo: My Dell Inspiron has needed no less than six services:
-graphics card exploded within a month of purchase, sent back to Bray (Irish service centre)
-graphics card replaced with wrong model (GeForce 420 Go instead of the GeForce 440 Go), sent back to Bray again
-graphics card replaced with correct model but still wrong (I had 64Mb model, they have me 32Mb), kicked off as I had now been without it a week, advised them that I knew where the service centre was (had recently stayed in Bray on holiday and their posters are all over the DART station) and offered to go over there in person to explain. Gave me an on-site engineer's visit, except on-site engineer told me he wasn't authorized to actually fit the parts in question. Instead he stood in our front room and talked arrogant, ignorant crap at us (my friend was doing his PHd in computer science unlike this clown) while we looked up the schematics online and took apart, removed the incorrect and fitted the correct graphics card he'd brought us.
-screen began developing dead pixels and physical construction was also failing (glass and rubber coming apart), sent back on its third trip to Co. Wicklow.
-DVD drive packed in and coastered several discs, onsite engineer swapped for a new one.
-exhaust fans packed in and system began overheating and crashign, onsite engineer came and took the whole thing apart and fitted new ones.

Would I buy another Dell? Hell no. I'm sure they've worked fine for other people, of course.

Just posted a response to this and it has disappeared :mad:

Basically I was saying that PC would ought to get looked into by the authorities and the likes of watchdog. They are ripping off and raping the average consumer who doesn't know any better. £9.99 for a CAT5 cable! Even the product descriptions on most of the packaging are either misleading or just downright lies.

They wanted £20-something for a kettle lead powercable! £6.99 in the Tesco across the way, twice as long too!

[-Ralph-]

They wanted £20-something for a kettle lead powercable! £6.99 in the Tesco across the way, twice as long too!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-Pin-UK-Plug-Power-Lead-Cable-Fuse-PC-Desktop-Computer-/310173023587?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item4837c0bd63#ht_2491wt_1033

Over £20, for something you can buy on ebay for a quid. I rest my case. They must be breaking some law or retail code of conduct somewhere.

[ravingdavis]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-Pin-UK-Plug-Power-Lead-Cable-Fuse-PC-Desktop-Computer-/310173023587?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item4837c0bd63#ht_2491wt_1033

Over £20, for something you can buy on ebay for a quid. I rest my case. They must be breaking some law or retail code of conduct somewhere.

I doubt they are breaking any laws. As I said earlier someone must be buying it.

Everything is worth whatever its purchaser will pay for it.

[flymo]

.........stuff.......

Yeah, there will always be examples of that, no company is perfect. In the scheme of things though they are pretty good. They do use quality components and build them under well controlled conditions, as I said I've watched them do it.

When you build as many computers as they do there will always be a proportion of faults, but that would be no different if you hand built them yourself.

We get very good service from them. I'm not about to defend them as perfect, but in my experience we get very good quality equipment and service.

I'm not suggesting that self build is pointless, it has its benefits but its not necessary in all cases. I do have the skill and the knowledge to build my own pc's, that's the industry I work in but I dont have the time and frankly couldnt be ar5ed.

We each have our own money and luckily we can decide how we choose to spend it, neither approach is right or wrong.

[-Ralph-]

I doubt they are breaking any laws. As I said earlier someone must be buying it.

Everything is worth whatever its purchaser will pay for it.

The principal of being "worth" what somebody is prepared to pay only really applies to the lowest price you can achieve. ie: if only one person is prepared to buy your product, and they are only prepared to pay £xx, then £xx is all it's worth.

Just because an organisation or individual is prepared to rip somebody else off, that doesn't make the product worth that amount of money.

The expression was often used to justify high house prices, but that didn't mean that's what they were worth, it just meant that's what you could sell it for. That has now been proved by the fact house prices have crashed back down, to what they are actually "worth".

I know you could argue it all day, depending upon whether you're using "worth" as a noun or an adjective, so lets not get into that.

It's not like houses or cars anyway. PC World are selling products that have a known cost of manufacture, then they are applying unethical profit margins, and selling it to people who don't know whether the kettle lead in Tesco, or on ebay, will fit their computer. (power lead is probably a bad example of that).

I'm sure the "High Speed" cable would be deemed as breaking a law if somebody was to actually challenge it.

[metalangel]

Hey, it's fair enough, when it was working it was a great machine, and those repairs have kept it going eight years (it still works, though it will entirely redundant once I get Win7)

I've never self-built though I know people who have, some swear by it, others at it. You can't really self-build Macs which counts me out :D

[Specialone]

From my experiences with PC world, the 'PC' now stands for
Pr**ks and C**ts world.
Cos its full of them.

[ravingdavis]

The principal of being "worth" what somebody is prepared to pay only really applies to the lowest price you can achieve. ie: if only one person is prepared to buy your product, and they are only prepared to pay £xx, then £xx is all it's worth.

Rubbish.

Many many things are cheaper to buy in China than they are in this country but do we pay UK prices or Chinese prices?

A slightly more extreme example than for PC World vs Internet but it still applies. People may purchase the 'overpriced' cable from PC World because they are in a rush, cant be arsed, have got money to burn. Pick your reason.

The 'worth' of something also counts to the condition in which it was sold. You may be able to buy a cable of ebay for a quid but you have to wait, sometimes in excess of a week. You can walk into PC World and have it there and then. No one is forcing the consumer to buy it, lack of the will to research prices for what you are buying is not an excuse to whine that you got ripped off.

[-Ralph-]

Rubbish.

Many many things are cheaper to buy in China than they are in this country but do we pay UK prices or Chinese prices?

A slightly more extreme example than for PC World vs Internet but it still applies. People may purchase the 'overpriced' cable from PC World because they are in a rush, cant be arsed, have got money to burn. Pick your reason.

The 'worth' of something also counts to the condition in which it was sold. You may be able to buy a cable of ebay for a quid but you have to wait, sometimes in excess of a week. You can walk into PC World and have it there and then. No one is forcing the consumer to buy it, lack of the will to research prices for what you are buying is not an excuse to whine that you got ripped off.

B*****ks

There is always going to be a difference in Chinese prices and UK prices for stuff that's manufactured in China, for obvious reasons, shipped half way across the world for one.

And many people buy it in PC world because they are scared to buy it anywhere else in case they get the wrong thing, they DON'T feel that they have a choice. It's not 'cos they are in a rush or they can't be ar$ed, or they have money to burn.

A Chinese TV in curry's doesn't cost 3 times what a Chinese TV in Tesco's costs, because people are not particularly scared of buying TV's, and retailers have to remain competitive in order to get a sale. It's considerably more than the same TV in China for obvious reasons. So why does a cable 6.99 in Tesco cost 20 quid in PC world? (I already said a power cable was a bad example, so lets say it's a something more complex). Because PC World are playing on people's insecurity and fear. They are unethical in selling products at the price they sell them for.

[maxinc]

PCWorld ... only use them when I can't way one day for delivery. And always reserve online and collect in store. Better prices and don't have to endure the incompetence of the tech guys.

DELLs are fine as long as you are an enterprise client. If buying for home / small business I would seriously consider their outsourced customer support which is totally incompetent, doesn't speak english and will take ages to solve an issue.

Custom build PCs are great if you know what you're doing, are passionate about FPS and genuinely think you need to do it yourself. Otherwise it could also lead to frustrations and money loss if you don't do your research properly.

As an enthusiast myself, I started to build my own computers when I've upgraded to my first 486DX2/66 motherboard. Ever since till the last Q6600 CPU I've built every single one of them and spend in total many thousands. I still remember paying $1300 for a Pentium 233MMX CPU.

I've given up now. I got family, garden and a bike. Building PCs seems like a terrible waste of time in these circumstances. I buy Apple hardware now which I sell for 60% of their value 3 years later. Works out a lot cheaper and probably get the finest build quality there is out there.

I'll thow a big party the day I'll read in the news that Currys and PCWorld have closed down. They are a disgrace for the IT industry.

[timwilky]

Just to point out to the previous post re kettle lead.

"hot" IEC leads as used in kettles have a grove cut into them
http://cpc.farnell.com/productimages/farnell/standard/7455965.jpg

A cheap normal IEC lead as used for computers does not have the groove. So please get it right. You can use a kettle lead for a computer, but not a computer lead for a kettle. so don't go to PC world if you want a hot brew

http://cpc.farnell.com/productimages/farnell/standard/PL0913106-40.jpg

[metalangel]

@maxinc: trying to explain to the (outsourced) tech support that the wrong graphics card was in my laptop or that the exhaust fans had seized was jolly good fun. I think one of them was actually suggesting I depress the plastic panel next to the screen in case that would fix it! Likewise when the card exploded they were trying to ask me to reinstall my drivers, I kept saying how that was impossible as there was no output to the screen as the card had fried!

@timwilky: I only say 'kettle lead' as that's what everyone I know calls them.

[Specialone]

Not one to get involved, but if i could sell my business for 10 times what i do now i would, the money in the bank would quell any guilt im sure.
You all would be horrified to see how much mark up is most of the imported products that are sold here.
I was speaking to someone a couple of years back about their trip to china, they have whole areas / towns dedicated to furniture production and the well known names we all think are high quality are all made and purchased there at sometimes 10 times less than here.
We are called the money pot by other countries because the biggest mark ups are here and we stand for it.
Land rover plant is less than 5 miles from my house yet i can legally buy one in holland, drive it back pay all the duty everything for thousands less than i can from my local dealer, something wrong there dont you think???

Back on track, if people are dumb enough to pay top whack for things at pr*cks and c**ts world then thats their problem, personally i wouldnt.
Its the same in the usa as well, last year while in florida, i wanted a simple 3.5mm jack to jack lead for the ipod in the hire car, they wanted $13 for a cable i can get for less than 50 pence back home, i told them as well which didnt go down well.

[yorkie_chris]

and YC ever think about the reason the dell's are so cheep ? because the parts that are used are very very basic. the PSU's can just run the system where as mine has 250w+ over head, it might have 4gb of ram but its running at 400mhz un like mine at 1200mhz . comes with a basic graphics card.

for me the biggest point is you cant over clock them, mines got a hefty OC and runs faster than some of the much more expensive dells that are even more expensive than mine was new.

Why would I need 250w excess power? I don't want to illuminate my garden through the USB port!

You buy the components to mess about with, I had an old overclocked AMD years ago, milled my own waterblocks from copper billet at school. More hassle than it was worth, though it looked pretty.

same thing, what is your time worth, how much do you get out of it. Do you buy GSXR, or get an SV and spend ages modifying...

Computermabobs are there for such god-like tasks as CAD modelling shiny things which can be made for motorbikes :)

[barwel1992]

Why would I need 250w excess power? I don't want to illuminate my garden through the USB port!

You buy the components to mess about with, I had an old overclocked AMD years ago, milled my own waterblocks from copper billet at school. More hassle than it was worth, though it looked pretty.

same thing, what is your time worth, how much do you get out of it. Do you buy GSXR, or get an SV and spend ages modifying...

Computermabobs are there for such god-like tasks as CAD modelling shiny things which can be made for motorbikes :)

rofl a power supply can only handle its full power out put for a few hours before the caps start to go bad

and i agree that water cooling is more hassle than its worth even when not making your own blocks

i can do cad on mine if i so wish ;)

[maxinc]

rofl a power supply can only handle its full power out put for a few hours before the caps start to go bad

DELL Optiplex's PSU last for years without being shut down. And they don't have 250W in excess. Is usually the fan's that fail first.

There is nothing wrong with building your own PC. There is nothing wrong with getting a DELL (or Mac). Arguing which one is better is wrong. The one that fit's it's purpose best is the better option.

Getting a computer from PC World based purely on their employes advice ... is stupid.

[beabert]

PC world are over priced.

whistles ;-)

£35 ish they want for a 15 metre ethernet cable, £3.70 online :-D


Oh davis has already mentioned it.

[barwel1992]

DELL Optiplex's PSU last for years without being shut down. And they don't have 250W in excess. Is usually the fan's that fail first.

There is nothing wrong with building your own PC. There is nothing wrong with getting a DELL (or Mac). Arguing which one is better is wrong. The one that fit's it's purpose best is the better option.

Getting a computer from PC World based purely on their employes advice ... is stupid.

nearly all PC power supply tests using a voltage draw thing state that you should have 250w at least head room

[beabert]

Power supplies are nowhere near 100% efficient, a 500 watt psu wont put out 500 watts. A high quality 400watt psu is 'better' than a cheap 500.

You really need to look for highest current rating on the 12v rails. If dell use high quality PSUs they may well be perfectly adequate.

Never skimp on PSUs.

[TheOnlyNemesis]

hey, i worked for pc world and i know my stuff and now work for currys but you're right they hire people that can sell not that know the products.

[-Ralph-]

Not one to get involved, but if i could sell my business for 10 times what i do now i would, the money in the bank would quell any guilt im sure.
You all would be horrified to see how much mark up is most of the imported products that are sold here.
I was speaking to someone a couple of years back about their trip to china, they have whole areas / towns dedicated to furniture production and the well known names we all think are high quality are all made and purchased there at sometimes 10 times less than here.
We are called the money pot by other countries because the biggest mark ups are here and we stand for it.
Land rover plant is less than 5 miles from my house yet i can legally buy one in holland, drive it back pay all the duty everything for thousands less than i can from my local dealer, something wrong there dont you think???

Back on track, if people are dumb enough to pay top whack for things at pr*cks and c**ts world then thats their problem, personally i wouldnt.
Its the same in the usa as well, last year while in florida, i wanted a simple 3.5mm jack to jack lead for the ipod in the hire car, they wanted $13 for a cable i can get for less than 50 pence back home, i told them as well which didnt go down well.

Why don't you sell your services for 10 times more? Because your competitors would undercut you and you wouldn't get any business. The same reason Curry's can't sell a TV for three times the price of Tesco.

This isn't really a debate about rip off Britain either, silly mark ups exist in all retailers. It's a debate about PC World. So you have to compare PC World with other UK retailers and ask whey their mark up's are so much worse?

Why wouldn't you pay top whack in PC World? Because you know what you want to buy, what you need, and what it does, so you can shop around and get it cheaper elsewhere. You are not a captive customer as you have enough knowledge to do that.

The reason I was so ****ed off with the High Speed Internet Cable is because without asking me, when I lived in Scotland, my stepfather bought one, then moaned at me that his internet didn't go any faster. Some little **** in PC World on the Stratford Road sold it to him based upon the promises on the packet.

It's very easy for all us computer savvy folk on an internet forum to laugh, ha, ha, ha and say "how stupid". But he knows NOTHING!!! about computers. He would NEVER buy anything in Tesco for the computer, regardless of price, because he can't tell them what it is for and ask if that's the right thing to buy, then when he goes to Tesco having been to PC world for advice, he's not sure that it's exactly the same thing in the packet, "well it can't be the same thing if it's three times cheaper can it?" Ordinarily intelligent people also hit a brick wall when it comes to computers, if they thought about it they'd figure it out, but the first reaction is " I can't do this". That kind of helplessness when it comes to computer probably affects over 50% of computer owners over 55 years of age. My stepfather isn't stupid, he could build a VW Beetle or a Lambretta, from the ground up, without ever looking at a manual, or he can go to work and manage the tax and VAT of a billionaire with 50 different business interests. How many of you could do that?

I can tell you from many years of selling computer systems (currently selling £6m a year) that he is definitely is not alone. Computers come with colour coded cables because people didn't know where to plug what when they took them out the box!

The trouble is PC World don't really have any direct UK competitors, ie: Large computer only retailers, with a UK wide presence, superstores in retail parks, and a big marketing budget. You can't walk out of PC world and find exactly the same product in another superstore on the same retail park and compare prices. Maplin is the closest, but they are not the same business model, not competing in the same way as B&Q, Homebase and Focus compete with each other. PC World know that their customer base is pretty much captive, and just as you pay top whack at motorway services because if you get there and need petrol you have no choice, PC world rip the ar$e out of their customer base.

There is a constant stream of customers walking out of every PC World every Saturday having bought something. Are they all stupid, because they went in there and paid top whack? Are they all working stacking shelves in Tesco because they are too dumb to do anything else? Of course they're not, they just didn't know where else to go, and if they did go somewhere else, they wouldn't know what to buy when they got there.

I realise this is an argument I'll never win, because this is an internet forum, where everyone is computer savvy, but would your granny know what to buy if you sent her out for a new computer cable?

[yorkie_chris]

i can do cad on mine if i so wish ;)

But you spent all that time you should have been learning how to use CAd software building the machine!

[barwel1992]

^no because i learnt cad in high school then built the pc in a couple of hours ;)

we are going to be hear doing this all night lol

[Specialone]

What cad do you wippersnappers use now?
Im pretty decent with autocad 14 or 2000,used it for 10 years, i prefer 14 tbh, but i realsie its a bit old now.
I got some 3d but not very good with that.

[barwel1992]

no idea never liked cad so never actually took any notice of the software, i dont have cad on my computer but could do if i wanted

just use sketch up pro 7 for 3d stuf

[Specialone]

no idea never liked cad so never actually took any notice of the software, i dont have cad on my computer but could do if i wanted

just use sketch up pro 7 for 3d stuf


Never tried that, ill take a look.
The 3d im on about is the pro stuff, autocad inventor, it was given to me but im not great with it, it has tutorials but cant dedicate enough time with it.

[barwel1992]

Never tried that, ill take a look.
The 3d im on about is the pro stuff, autocad inventor, it was given to me but im not great with it, it has tutorials but cant dedicate enough time with it.

sketch up is much more user friendly but is more for making models rather than designs

stuf like this

http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/radwithfans.jpg

http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/kitchen.jpg

http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/nearlyfinished.jpg

[maxinc]

nearly all PC power supply tests using a voltage draw thing state that you should have 250w at least head room

The Optiplex Series are the most popular DELL PC's for businesses that's why I mentioned them in my example. They have PSUs in the range of 200 - 350W and they run dual core CPUs, 1 or 2 hard drives and some of them accommodate an additional video card without trouble.

A lot of what you are saying applies for gaming / custom built PCs which need a lot of headroom for power hungry CPU / GPU (and power inefficient OCing). But for a business machine designed for spreadsheets & email, a small PSU could be a lot more efficient.

Paying for a few kWh at home may seem little but multiply that by a factor of 50,000 and you will soon find out why a 250W PSU with little headroom is better than a 800W with lots.

[maxinc]

This isn't really a debate about rip off Britain either, silly mark ups exist in all retailers. It's a debate about PC World. So you have to compare PC World with other UK retailers and ask whey their mark up's are so much worse?

...

The trouble is PC World don't really have any direct UK competitors

Looks like you answered your own question and I totally agree. Is not only PC World, is every other super store with limited competition. Did you notice the £150 HDMI cables at Dixons (the same company). Yeah, they will even try to sell that to you if you want HD picture on your TV 'cause the £15 one from amazon will only show you 1/ 4 of the pixels :)).

Unfortunately, the "if it's 10 times more expensive must be better" mentality still works and too many unexperienced buyers fall into the trap. That's why I can't wait for them to disappear.

When BestBuy opened in Lakeside, the Curry super store and PC Worlds have become ghost towns. Nobody gets in there anymore and I couldn't be more happier. I got my iPad from them though, when everywhere else were sold out, the Curry's had 30+ in stock ... which kind of paints a picture of how unpopular they have become with a bit of competition around the corner.

[Viney]

Actually, the reason why PCworld exists because if it didnt it would be one of those shops that are springing up everywhere selling utter junk for the house. You know the things, tools for a pound, plastic crates, wierd sweets near thier sell by dates and other household goods that would make you wish it WAS a PC world.

I

[maxinc]

If more shops like the ones in Tottenham Court Road will appear, I wouldn't mind at all. They all have reasonable prices which you can negotiate and match plus most of them know what they are talking about and usually offer very competent advice.

I'm not even sure is the prices that hurt us that much as opposed to the whole experience. I think this is part of why I prefer to pay the extra for the Apple stuff. Amongst other things, every time I visit their shops, the customer service makes me feel like I'm their only customer.

[yorkie_chris]

What cad do you wippersnappers use now?
Im pretty decent with autocad 14 or 2000,used it for 10 years, i prefer 14 tbh, but i realsie its a bit old now.
I got some 3d but not very good with that.

Pro-E, I-deas or solidworks. Solidworks is the best of the bunch IMO. also abaqus for FEA. That's an amazing program.

[ThEGr33k]

To be fair OEM is only available to computer makers, so its not something you will really find in a shop I should think.

As said a few times, PC world is a bit fail!

[Specialone]

Pro-E, I-deas or solidworks. Solidworks is the best of the bunch IMO. also abaqus for FEA. That's an amazing program.
All the design team in my last job all used pro E, but they were like little kids and didnt want anyone else to learn it, so we had to use autocad14 and 2000.
I think they were in the job preservation society, didnt help anyway, whole plant moved to hungary ;)

Sorry no more derailing.

[dill89]

haha Currys and PC World are all a disgrace... me and my friend visited Currys last week, and they have a very large ONKYO demo section... this is where the fun starts...

They had 2 HDTV's set up, one with DVD Home cinema written above it, and the other saying Blu-Ray entertainment...

the DVD home cinema system had the blu-ray player connected up to it, and only the tv speakers...

the Blu-Ray section had a DVD player connected up, and also a 5.1 speaker system sitting too... flaw with that? it was connected to the ONKYO amp via your stereo cable (red/white adaptors) so only the left and right channel were playing...

we just had to stand in absolute aww at how overly ridiculous and pathetic it all was... they've clearly just connected some cables, saw picture, heard noise, and assumed that it was perfect

[-Ralph-]

To be fair OEM is only available to computer makers, so its not something you will really find in a shop I should think.

As said a few times, PC world is a bit fail!

OEM is available to anyone building a system, so long as you order it with your hardware from the same place at the same time.

[metalangel]

Well, PC World won today. After my Amazon screw-up, I ended up going into PC World to get Windows 7 from them instead. Yes, I paid more but not much more than shipping for my order would have been, and I am now happily boot-camping on my Mac.

[warrenhewitt10]

Just read all 8 pages of this and it has to be one of the most epic discussions ever

[warrenhewitt10]

And I shall conclude that I shall continue to buy macs for the rest of my life :)