The mentality of car drivers - be afraid!

[arenalife]

Ok, so come into work one morning last week and there's a mashed up fiesta in the company car park, hmm wonder what that's about.

Anyway, so doing the morning mooch about with my coffee, the admin and office types are all talking about the poor girl in dept x who had a bus drive into her and how it's so bad and she should get the police and injury lawyers whatnot on the case. It was her car outside.

Me - "What happened???"

Fools - "Well she was just leaving work and a bus drove straight into her!! She's really upset"

Me - "Oh right, how weird?? how did that happen? Why couldn't the bus see her?"

Fools - "She'd only just pulled out into the road and he hit her!"

Me - "WTF? So she pulled out of the car park into the path of a bus??"

Fools - "Yes, but it was a box junction!! She should have been ok"

Me - "??!??!!????"

BE AFRAID out there #-o

[BigBaddad]

The mentality of car drivers - be afraid!

Car drivers or just WOMEN drives......sorry girls but you really should stay in the kitchen and only come out to pose for calenders.:rant:

[dizzyblonde]

.....and you know what my answer to that is don't you

FECCCCCKKKK ORF!!!

Only the bloke in this house stays in the kitchen ;-)

[Specialone]

No comment on this matter :rolleyes:

[Razor]

make all car drivers do the bike CBT... end of..

[mcgrimes]

make all car drivers do the bike CBT... end of..
+1

I've always said that if all car drivers had to do a CBT, there'd also be much less risk to motorcycles!

[Dicky Ticker]

Well if she couldn't see a bus what chance does she have of seeing a bike.Irrelevant of whether it was a he or she they should be done for it. She was shaken up by her own stupidity but what about the people on the bus?
On the way home from the AR a dear old silver haired lady in her Metro decided to pull out in front of me and even when I was slowed down alongside she did not know I was there---------------what is the use of ranting at somebody like her.

[Specialone]

make all car drivers do the bike CBT... end of..

+1

I've always said that if all car drivers had to do a CBT, there'd also be much less risk to motorcycles!

I started preaching this to people after i did my CBT, i went there thinking i knew it all and basically realised straight away i knew fook all.
Defo a good idea imo.

[Specialone]

Well if she couldn't see a bus what chance does she have of seeing a bike.Irrelevant of whether it was a he or she they should be done for it. She was shaken up by her own stupidity but what about the people on the bus?
On the way home from the AR a dear old silver haired lady in her Metro decided to pull out in front of me and even when I was slowed down alongside she did not know I was there---------------what is the use of ranting at somebody like her.

I had about 5 incidents with old people driving cars just on the way home, the worse when i was overtaking on a busy road, seen a gap to overtake then the old fart in the focus estate decided to try and stop me by moving over as far right as he could then speeding as fast as he could to close the gap in front of him when he could see i was gonna pull in, when there was a car approaching from the opposite direction and you dont have the gap you were planning on, it unnerved me and made me angry, ii just dont see what they get from doing that, he spent the next few miles trying to catch me up and when he did didnt even have the balls to look my way.
Me and DMC was on the mway when a old git in a 4x4 decided to pull into lane 3 without checking there wasnt somebody at the side of him :(
We both offered some correctional gestures.

[keithd]

doing a CBT wont make people miss bikers. hell i've pulled out on one before, being an ex biker you'd think i should know better, but just an error of judgement like everybody makes from time to time

[Jabba]

just an error of judgement like everybody makes from time to time

Very reasonable point of view. Who are you and what have you done with keithd? ;-)

[MattCollins]

Approaching an intersection showing a left indicator today I had a car pull out before I committed to a turn. Problem was that I wasn't indicating into the intersection, but properly indicating to turn into the driveway immediately after the intersection. ie too late for the intersection. I had to duck around the rear of the errant cage on the brakes. It didn't rate as a close call, but I did get to take evasive action. All I got from the female driver (not that sex means much) was attitude when she realised what was going on. It was as if I had done the wrong thing.

In case of differing opinions, rules, etc, local rules are black and white on this one. She failed to give way.

I don't think any sort of driver training will help much. We have a scheme where drivers do xx hours under professional instruction, but that all goes to hell as soon as drivers are let loose on the road.

[andrewsmith]

make all car drivers do the bike CBT... end of..

Agreed I realised I knew sweet FA within 5 minutes and it made me a better driver.

doing a CBT wont make people miss bikers. hell i've pulled out on one before, being an ex biker you'd think i should know better, but just an error of judgement like everybody makes from time to time

ok who's stolen Keith and replaced him??? :offtopic:

anyways back to topic

Its the mentality of car drivers

had a peach meself today.
Coming up to a controlled junction, on Green and nothing moving.
On the box junction some dozy twonk indicating right in the straight ahead lanes (right turn is on red) blocking road. The right turn on this piece of road is wire controlled so doesn't trip unless someone is there

GRRRRR.

[BigBaddad]

On a serious note, I had a bit of a bum twitchers on Saturday. I riding along a straight part of the A1066 on my way to Harleston, the road in front was clear. Light traffic coming towards me and some dopey fooker pulls out to overtake. I guess he (yes he) didn't see my bright yellow bike with it's light blazing.

[Geodude]

make all car drivers do the bike CBT... end of..

+1

I've always said that if all car drivers had to do a CBT, there'd also be much less risk to motorcycles!

+1 also think a cbt would open a few cagers eyes.

[Razor]

cbt on scooters for everybody, except for extremely fat people, it costs money to extract a moped from a rectum...

[andrewsmith]

cbt on scooters for everybody, except for extremely fat people, it costs money to extract a moped from a rectum...

like this??

http://www.fugly.com/media/IMAGES/Random/super-fat-man-on-a-scooter.jpg

:smt082:smt082:smt082

[arenalife]

Approaching an intersection showing a left indicator today I had a car pull out before I committed to a turn. Problem was that I wasn't indicating into the intersection, but properly indicating to turn into the driveway immediately after the intersection. ie too late for the intersection. I had to duck around the rear of the errant cage on the brakes. It didn't rate as a close call, but I did get to take evasive action. All I got from the female driver (not that sex means much) was attitude when she realised what was going on. It was as if I had done the wrong thing.

In case of differing opinions, rules, etc, local rules are black and white on this one. She failed to give way.

I don't think any sort of driver training will help much. We have a scheme where drivers do xx hours under professional instruction, but that all goes to hell as soon as drivers are let loose on the road.

Perhaps things are different down under but in the UK you wouldn't indicate before a road turning if you weren't intending going down it, that's asking for big trouble. In situations where you've got to make a driveway turning like that I accelerate to get safety space behind me then do quick indicate and turn in, or even forget it and come from the other way if it's really busy.

[Sid Squid]

make all car drivers do the bike CBT... end of..
Cautiously agree - it's not a definate fix for all idiocy, but it would give many people an appreciation of something they know nothing about.
Some countries have a licence ladder, you have to start on a bike before you're allowed to drive.

...commendable honesty...
I've done the same while driving - made a mistake. Fortunately it's never been a serious enough mistake to lead me to have a rider off, (nowhere near thankfully), but all the same there's few of us who can honestly say they've never done something silly.

All the same I firmly believe that riders make better drivers, and drivers I know have admitted as much after they've got a bike licence. It's made them look at the road in a manner that drivers rarely do, to consider grip and road surfaces in a way that's improved their driving. And taught them how to use the throttle to get grip, rather than the constant and depressing sight of following a set of brake lights through every bend.

[Mr Speirs]

My work colleague has had 3 accidents in the last year!!! All of which he avidly claims weren't his fault.

No 1. Enters a roundabout with stationary traffic on and rams into the back on somebody.
No 2. Stationary traffic in front of him as a car in front of the guy he hits is signalling to turn right. Hits the car with so much force the guys car ended up resting on his bonnet.
No 3. Most recent after a drug fueled rant decides to drive his car like a lunatic...eventually he loses control hits a curb and makes a banana out of his Subaru.

The bosses son eh? :rolleyes:

[yorkie_chris]

Approaching an intersection showing a left indicator today I had a car pull out before I committed to a turn. Problem was that I wasn't indicating into the intersection, but properly indicating to turn into the driveway immediately after the intersection. ie too late for the intersection. I had to duck around the rear of the errant cage on the brakes. It didn't rate as a close call, but I did get to take evasive action. All I got from the female driver (not that sex means much) was attitude when she realised what was going on. It was as if I had done the wrong thing.

In case of differing opinions, rules, etc, local rules are black and white on this one. She failed to give way.

I don't think any sort of driver training will help much. We have a scheme where drivers do xx hours under professional instruction, but that all goes to hell as soon as drivers are let loose on the road.

Here you would fail your driving test for indicating like that in a manner which would be likely to be misunderstood.

I also think you were asking for that one.

[Specialone]

All the same I firmly believe that riders make better drivers, and drivers I know have admitted as much after they've got a bike licence. It's made them look at the road in a manner that drivers rarely do, to consider grip and road surfaces in a way that's improved their driving. And taught them how to use the throttle to get grip, rather than the constant and depressing sight of following a set of brake lights through every bend.


Agree 1million%

Id been driving 20 years and it made me realise where vulnerable bikers and other less visible road users would be in regards to junctions etc and where to take a longer or 2nd look.
I expect now for a biker to be behind a car but hidden from initial view, turning right when im turning out the same junction.
A classic example on the entry road to the road i live on.

[Bedhead]

Perhaps things are different down under but in the UK you wouldn't indicate before a road turning if you weren't intending going down it, that's asking for big trouble. In situations where you've got to make a driveway turning like that I accelerate to get safety space behind me then do quick indicate and turn in, or even forget it and come from the other way if it's really busy.

When I was doing my car lessons in 1992, I was told when you're at a junction never to pull out in front of a vehicle indicating left in case they were pulling in beyond the junction.

Near me there's a petrol staion right on the corner of a t junction, there's at least one accident a week from people pulling out on cars that are going to get fuel.

[sloppy joe]

All the same I firmly believe that riders make better drivers, and drivers I know have admitted as much after they've got a bike licence.

+1. Defo. In fact I would say that even anyone who has spent time on a bicycle on the roads will probably be more aware of hazards when in a car. Although many cyclists now apparently obey traffic lights that only they can see.

[mcgrimes]

Does driving a motorcycle affect anyone the way you drive your car? I find myself trying to fit through smaller and smaller gaps (nothing stupid) - filtering is a bitch though! ;)

[Specialone]

Here you would fail your driving test for indicating like that in a manner which would be likely to be misunderstood.

I also think you were asking for that one.
I agree to a certain extent but im sure the highway code tells you not to pull out until the approaching vehicle has started their turn or something like that (been a long time since i read one properly).
What i would do in that situation is slow right down and indicate just as i go past the start of the junction.

[yorkie_chris]

Sure, but if you trust some f*ckin mong in a cage to obey the highway code then you're asking for it.

I rode for at least 6 months with no indicators at all and did not have any more close calls. Idea is is do not put yourself in position where cars can affect you. Not possible all the time but your road positioning and dominance of your space ensures safety.

[Specialone]

Sure, but if you trust some f*ckin mong in a cage to obey the highway code then you're asking for it.

I rode for at least 6 months with no indicators at all and did not have any more close calls. Idea is is do not put yourself in position where cars can affect you. Not possible all the time but your road positioning and dominance of your space ensures safety.
I rode my lambretta that never had indys ever so do know what your saying, it just that you cant take the blame if there was a collision because technically they shouldnt pull out.
Now in the real world i agree its better to position yourself so not to collide in the first place rather than argue the blame after.

[yorkie_chris]

Exactly, why tell someone to pull out in front of you, better to indicate after junction, or not at all. Worst case is they do not see you are slowing and run into the back of you as you go into the driveway. This will hurt less than plowing into their drivers door at 30mph.

[dizzyblonde]

The reason I feel that everyone should do a bike orientated course before embarking on learning to drive, is to give a sense of vunerability from the 'non cage' variety.

Now me riding first, then acquiring the driving license, can see how this would be beneficial. But then I've always been more observant of others on the road anyway, and also have a few manners too. My driving has impressed a lot of people, although being a very short time after my test. I am however taking slightly more care in getting used to how big the truck is.
I am very careful where I park, although same can't be said about idiot trolley pushers, who recently put a giant ding from front to back of my whole left side.!

Everyone has a guff up day, even on a bike.

[dizzyblonde]

Sure, but if you trust some f*ckin mong in a cage to obey the highway code then you're asking for it.

I rode for at least 6 months with no indicators at all and did not have any more close calls. Idea is is do not put yourself in position where cars can affect you. Not possible all the time but your road positioning and dominance of your space ensures safety.

So what you are actually saying is that I have to be a mind reader?
Even out on the bike I've pulled you up about indicators.
You are lucky I would give you consideration anyway.
BTW not everyone in a cage is a mong, but sometimes there are mongs on bikes too.
...or are all people in cars all mongs because you don;t have a license to drive a car?

[yorkie_chris]

Everyone in a cage must be considered a mong until they are safely overtaken (or even unsafely :)) and thus no longer capable of affecting you with mong-like behaviour.

Why do I need consideration from you? Like I say, idea is you do not put yourself in place where you are relying on consideration. rely on your wits not someone else.

I think you reading too much into this, or have got the wrong end of the stick or something. If you think defensive riding (making allowances for the dribbling spastics who WILL pull out on you, if you let them) is some sort of arrogance on my part because I don't own a car then you're living up to woman 4x4 driver standard pretty well :-P

[dizzyblonde]

errrr no, you just sound like ......

A MONG:smt110

And its perhaps you that is the inconsiderate MONG at that, not any other person on the road.


.... your nine lives will come up eventually!

[dizzyblonde]

PS....I don't actually own a car, but I have a license to drive one ;-)

[yorkie_chris]

#sigh#

If you have an intelligent counterpoint to any of my views on roadcraft then I'd be glad to hear it.

[Electro]

I did my mod 2 pre test training with my instructor and he royally fecked me for indicating too early, the right turn i wanted was 6 metres past another right turn. He ripped me apart for signalling before the 1st right turn. If you do that on your test you will fail and so on blah blah blah. That afternoon i went down the same rd and right turned at the same junction, i didnt signal till after the 1st. The examiner said I knew you were trained by Mick coz none of his pupils fail on innapropriate signalling at that junction :) Lesson learned, dont signal too early.

[dizzyblonde]

#sigh#

If you have an intelligent counterpoint to any of my views on roadcraft then I'd be glad to hear it.

roadcraft, we're on about idiot car drivers aren't we:confused:
YEah....stop being a mong.:rolleyes:

Anyway............

Even in a car I still treat like everyone is out there to kill me.
There are all sorts of idiots out there. Me and YC live in the capital of kamikaze taxis, and they still frighten me in a two ton truck!

I do not particularly enjoy driving. But, unfortunately a car was plonked on my drive, and I was told I had to learn to drive it eventually, expanding family and all. So its a means to an end, I take it shopping, and dog walking etc, when really necessary, in all honesty its sat from one end of the week to the next, as its really not as appealing as the bikes. You get an itch to get out on a bike, don't happen with a car. My bike itch is getting sore it needs scratching that much!

[MattCollins]

Perhaps things are different down under but in the UK you wouldn't indicate before a road turning if you weren't intending going down it, that's asking for big trouble. In situations where you've got to make a driveway turning like that I accelerate to get safety space behind me then do quick indicate and turn in, or even forget it and come from the other way if it's really busy.

Here you would fail your driving test for indicating like that in a manner which would be likely to be misunderstood.

I also think you were asking for that one.

Hence the statement in the middle of my post about different rules and opinions. People say that "I do this" or "I do that", but the fact remains that under local rules I am required to clearly give x seconds and y metres warning and she was required to stay behind the line until such time as either I passed or turned regardless of what she "thinks" I am doing.

The rules remove the confusion. 99.999% of drivers get it right, but this one got it wrong and gave attitude about it <-- the point.

The only fail is if I am not on the lookout for this type of situation.

[MattCollins]

PS. I thought the thread was supposed to be about the 'my poop don't stink' mentality/ attitude of some drivers on the road.

Edit in italics. An oversight. I don't like to cast sweeping aspersions against all motorists.

[dizzyblonde]

PS. I thought the thread was supposed to be about the 'my poop don't stink' mentality/ attitude of drivers on the road.

:D Well I suppose it was.
As for a comment on YCs views of roadcraft.....I'm pretty certain in those texts he so loves to cement his brain to, is a golden rule that applies to both car and bike, or cyclist and horsey type......be courteous to other road users, which includes giving consideration and respect. Its one of the things that gets told to you by an instructor when you do your CBT, and your instructor when you first sit in a car. Intelligence is not always sought from a book, its not intelligence that is required on a road, its common sense.

But then again, that can be repeated over and over, and peoples roses still smell like poo poo poo poo, because everyone has to be everywhere first, everyone must have that gap in the traffic, people insist on not using indicators etc etc.

[Bri w]

I'm with YC on this one. I expect every car driver to be an idiot UNTIL they prove otherwise. Approaching a junction at which a car is waiting to pull out I try to make eye contact, I position myself with the assumption they haven't seen me and I may even adjust my speed (up or down) to give me the best chance of avoiding them if they do prove to be idiots.

And in the car I have part pulled out on a biker, about a foot, before I saw him. He wasn't pleased, and I was gutted. He's a neighbour, and has given me some serious stick down the pub with the lads. And on the bike I've pulled out without seeing a car, and it avoided me not the other way around.

I'm a better car driver for starting out on a bike for the reasons already stated by others in the thread.

30 yrs without an accident in the car, and 29 yrs since my last off on a bike.

[yorkie_chris]

I would use that as an example of the rules (or foolishly slavish application of them) putting you in a dangerous situation and say safety is more important.
Take another example, filtering with double white lines... if it is clear the safe (though illegal) thing to do is use the other side of the road. I take the safe one every time if there are no police about.

I am not fussed if you want to brag about doing millions of km, how much your b*llocks weigh or any other stats. I don't see how it is relevant.

[MattCollins]

Chris, the post that you refer to was deleted because it was a little harshly worded and it did sound like an brag which is something that I am not inclined to do in such a grandiose manner. It was in response to another "brag".

Whatever... it seems that some people still miss the point of my original post.

[Dicky Ticker]

As somebody who drives artics,trucks,buses cars and rides a bike,I treat 40years as experience and I treat all drivers and riders the same-----------TAKE IT THEY HAVEN'T SEEN YOU AND THINK SIGNALS ARE DISCO LIGHTS THAT MEAN NOTHING.

Unfortunately there is good and bad in all categories but till I learn to sort out the good from the bad I will take it they haven't seen me or my intentions and where possible allow myself a safety zone for their mistakes[or mine]
I am a rider/driver of the self preservation society type,possibly why I am still here

[sunshine]

I agree with YC expect to car driver to kill you and you will be better off, trusting another road user not to do something stupid is a big risk, even when im in the car or van i expect cars to pull out in front of me (yes, i have hit someone as they pull out of a junction and heard them i didnt see you, and im like how?!?!?!)

Spending some time here in America i have found out that they dont filter because its illegal they think. And some of the Car drivers from the uk i work with agree that it should be illegal because they dont expect bikers to move through the lines of traffic. which im guessing causes the low speed filtering spills that happen, but im sure if they was on a bike they would do the exact same thing as us, maybe this should be in the next think bike campaign less slow speed spills would be nice, advertise we DO filter, get over it!!!

[metalangel]

The difference there is there isn't any real lane discipline. While it might be in place in the law or it might not (in Ontario, Canada it is, at least, but everyone ignores it) doesn't seem to matter. Everyone drives in whatever lane they like unless they're going for an exit. The result is that you change lane in either direction to get past someone, as opposed to in Europe where you know there's a definite slow lane (or hope there is, at least) and people only move out of it to go back into it.

Does that make sense?

[BoltonSte]

There is no slow lane, here Metalangel. Only the inside lane for buses and the like, which if you are in a car you can never venture into even if driving at 60. The middle and outside lanes;)

Although it is worse in the states as there is no blanket law over all states. California allow filtering and it appears drivers expect it. Whereas in Delaware where I was you couldn't, although I did.

It's worse when you go from a state that allows it into one that doesn't though. Then you'd better watch out.

Ste

[embee]

There has been a discussion going on elsewhere on similar things, and something which came up was that car Driving Instructors now tell their pupils NOT to check the blind spot (what we call the "lifesaver", over the shoulder check) before moving out of a lane, it's strictly mirror/signal/manoeuvre.

My godson recently went through the lessons/test, and while discussing things he confirmed that he was definitely told not to look over his shoulder. Both I and a friend (IAM) said OK for the test (do it by the book), but once you've passed and you're out on your own, check over your shoulder before lane changing, it could save your life or someone else's!

So be warned, recently trained car drivers will not check the blind spot so will pull out on you.

[ChrisSV]

I can confirm what embee said about being told not to check your blind spot, and my driving instructors reason, was you should be looking in your mirrors all the time anyway. So i thought hmmm, and me being me meant i argued the point and reason behind checking blindspots, and many other aspects of driving, and the majority of the time my instructor agreed with what i was saying, but he always went back to . . . "that's what you need to do on your test."
This annoyed me alot, resulting in me not doing my test out of sheer principal, childish or not ive been told both, so i now won't take my driving test out of principal as i don't feel safe with the standards with which im expected to conform by, even if it is for just an hour while im doing my test, its the principal.

P.S. Just so folks know, my comments above shouldn't be taken as an attack on anybody (they have been before) I mean no offence to anybody and i want that to be understood, i don't wish to be seen to be blanketing any motorist, these are just my feelings and thoughts, and do not reflect on anyone.

[dizzyblonde]

There has been a discussion going on elsewhere on similar things, and something which came up was that car Driving Instructors now tell their pupils NOT to check the blind spot (what we call the "lifesaver", over the shoulder check) before moving out of a lane, it's strictly mirror/signal/manoeuvre.

My godson recently went through the lessons/test, and while discussing things he confirmed that he was definitely told not to look over his shoulder. Both I and a friend (IAM) said OK for the test (do it by the book), but once you've passed and you're out on your own, check over your shoulder before lane changing, it could save your life or someone else's!

So be warned, recently trained car drivers will not check the blind spot so will pull out on you.


Funny that, I passed my driving test at the beginning of July, and my instructor was constantly telling me to check blind spots. Perhaps its the difference between new crap instructors and well established instructors with good track records.
SO I'm afraid not all recently trained drivers are like this.
I shouldn't say, but my instructor was also an old Triumph rider, I was constantly picking up on other learners doing odd things, and also reported back to him on the ways I saw people being taught in comparison to me, when I was out in my own car. I shan't say what our conversations went like\!

[andrewsmith]

Funny that, I passed my driving test at the beginning of July, and my instructor was constantly telling me to check blind spots. Perhaps its the difference between new crap instructors and well established instructors with good track records.
SO I'm afraid not all recently trained drivers are like this.
I shouldn't say, but my instructor was also an old Triumph rider, I was constantly picking up on other learners doing odd things, and also reported back to him on the ways I saw people being taught in comparison to me, when I was out in my own car. I shan't say what our conversations went like\!

Actually dizzy you've hit part of the problem on the head, the quality of the teaching depends on the instructor.
When a started my lessons 6 yr ago the instructor i used was recommended purely on the quality of the teaching and that he'd done it for 30 yr. That is what he drummed into everyone was to check blind spots constantly

[dizzyblonde]

I think there are far too many instructors out there. Yes I know its a kind of supply and demand type thing, soo many people need to learn to drive.
I gave up driving about three years ago, as I hated the instructor, but then he was at the opposite end of the scale, and was a dinosaur instructor. Jim taught me to drive in seven lessons this time, and got me to put in for my test, obviously I had another 7/8 lessons before the test date. It was the quality and direct instructions that were given that got me done so quickly. It did help alredy having six years of road use under my belt, but it did have to be reprogrammed slightly for the car. He understood exactly what was going on im my head, from a bikers point of view too.
Jims been teaching for many many years, and his non over complicated approach was most excellent. I wouldn't look twice at some of the schools round here, they are all too young, puts me off for some reason!

[andrewsmith]

me brother found that and stopped as the instructor was sh*te
passed under somebody else

[sloppy joe]

There has been a discussion going on elsewhere on similar things, and something which came up was that car Driving Instructors now tell their pupils NOT to check the blind spot (what we call the "lifesaver", over the shoulder check) before moving out of a lane, it's strictly mirror/signal/manoeuvre.

My godson recently went through the lessons/test, and while discussing things he confirmed that he was definitely told not to look over his shoulder. Both I and a friend (IAM) said OK for the test (do it by the book), but once you've passed and you're out on your own, check over your shoulder before lane changing, it could save your life or someone else's!

So be warned, recently trained car drivers will not check the blind spot so will pull out on you.

I find this shocking. OK I was taught to drive by my old man many years ago and not an instructor, but it was drummed in to me to do a shoulder check before changing lanes, and it has saved me (and others) at the very least some exchanging of paint on several occassions. Off to purchase a louder horn.....

[sunshine]

Metalangel i know and understand about the lane disciples in USA. but at stand still the bikers dont filter, and they think(noone knows) its illegal in Illnois and most the British staff agree for it to be illegal because they dont expect bikers to be filtering. because im guessing there not being taught to look out for it, because i wasnt i just knew it from riding a bike first. but i was taught to check blind spots before moving as well (i think i did it anyway).

Standards of driving shouldnt of stopped, maybe teaching but driving should of gone up because of all there newest health and safety crap, more people should now be failing for more stupid things.

[metalangel]

@svste: first thing you do when collecting a rental car in a new state is ask if you can turn right on a red.

Guy at Enterprise at LAX said, "As long as there's a sign telling you not to, you can do whatever you want."
Girl sitting behind him chimed in with, "And even if there is, do it anyway as long as no cops can see you."

@sunshine: Instructors in Canada and the UK never mentioned checking for bikes. Go figure!

[yorkie_chris]

but he always went back to . . . "that's what you need to do on your test."

I can see a free retest in your future if you failed a test for making MORE observations than the bare minimum!

[BoltonSte]

[QUOTE=metalangel;2341382]@svste: first thing you do when collecting a rental car in a new state is ask if you can turn right on a red.

QUOTE]

Oh I know, but I was meaning more if you are out on your bike and riding between States. In Delaware, it was easy to run through Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland and possibly Jersey in 1 day.

It's a pain that there are no blanket laws, although in reality, it's like going through different countries rather than counties over here.

[Sosha]

Not checking blind spots is moronic. I keep a watch on my mirrors that borders paranoia but can count at least 5 times I was glad I looked.

I'll add a plus one to CBT before driving test. It gives you an awareness of how other vehicles react to road conditions, a greater awareness of their existence. (Go out - buy a mini - then see how many other minis your spotting when your out and about) before even starting in on hazard perception. Consequences are much greater on two wheels.