Speed Cameras - switch off date vs prosecution chase end date ?

[no_akira]

I've just been wondering about the big "switch off" of speed cameras with regards to the cut off date at which the organisations will continue to chase offenders?

I suspect that the agency's may possibly have already stopped processing offenders because I can imagine your going to get lots of caught speeders, during August claiming that they were under the impression that they had all been turned off. Which possibly hasn't been set as precedence in court yet?

Obviously I'm not brave / stupid or have enough spare points to brazenly test out own my hypothesis.:geek:

[maviczap]

I think its different in each area. Although Dave & Co have taken away the funding for the Speed Cameras in each authority, not every authority has withdrawn the speed cameras.

Only Oxford & Swindon have switched theirs off to my knowledge? Devon & Cornwall are likely to shut theirs off.

But in Suffolk they haven't decided what to do yet, continue & fund it another way or shut it down

[timwilky]

Lancs (The county with 290 fixed speed cameras, six mobile enforcement vans rotated around 155 sites of ‘community concern’ plus 70 ‘core sites’) has said they are not turning them off. However, the councils funding the "Safety Partnership" unelected quango responsible for collecting 2 million quid a year plus issuing licence penalty points are questioning which cameras are for safety and which are for revenue.

[simesb]

I suspect that the agency's may possibly have already stopped processing offenders because I can imagine your going to get lots of caught speeders, during August claiming that they were under the impression that they had all been turned off. Which possibly hasn't been set as precedence in court yet?

You'd get laughed out of court if you turned up and said "I was only speeding cos I thought the camera was switch off, m'lud"

[thedonal]

I've just been wondering about the big "switch off" of speed cameras with regards to the cut off date at which the organisations will continue to chase offenders?

I suspect that the agency's may possibly have already stopped processing offenders because I can imagine your going to get lots of caught speeders, during August claiming that they were under the impression that they had all been turned off. Which possibly hasn't been set as precedence in court yet?

Obviously I'm not brave / stupid or have enough spare points to brazenly test out own my hypothesis.:geek:

Not really going to wash as an excuse though is it-

Why were you speeding?

Oh, sorry! I thought the camera wasn't working, yeronner.

[no_akira]

I'll put it another way, because there is a four / six week lead time in processing offences are the company's responsible for doing the processing to be dismantled as well ? If they are then I can imagine there would have to be a cut off point at which no more offences would be processed ?

[Bibio]

the government hasn't told the councils to 'turn them off' what they have said is 'all revenue will come to us but you will get no funding' so its up to each individual council to maintain them so most are turning off/removing them. its still legal for a council to issue speeding fines if they decide to turn one on for the day.

[Milky Bar Kid]

I'll put it another way, because there is a four / six week lead time in processing offences are the company's responsible for doing the processing to be dismantled as well ? If they are then I can imagine there would have to be a cut off point at which no more offences would be processed ?

What are you actually going on about? It does not take 4-6 weeks for an offence to be processed, if it did, the offence would be timebarred as the NIP needs to be sent out WITHIN 14 days, so you are talking nonsense.

Secondly, only one or two authorities have actually said they are turning them off and I am sure that means that FROM THE DATE THEY turn them off, there will be no more offences detected.....

[no_akira]

It was just supposition, I'm as clueless about the law as I am most other things but there seems to be people on this forum who do know (work for the police, courts). Sometimes things are not always "black & white", if they were we wouldn't have courts.

This is a public forum that allows users to ask questions anonymously, sometimes you even learn things.

Q: What does NIP mean ?

[maviczap]

Notice of Intended Prosecution

[rictus01]

notice of intended prosecution, and I do understand where you're coming from, if say you received such a notice, but the department of the local council responsible was "cut" at that time (the 4-6 weeks lead time you speak of) then the prosecution would presumably not be forwarded to court, but it'd be extremely lucky timing though.

Cheers Mark.

[aaron020873]

on the other sites i go on NIP means nude in public :smt043:smt043:smt043

[Milky Bar Kid]

It was just supposition, I'm as clueless about the law as I am most other things but there seems to be people on this forum who do know (work for the police, courts). Sometimes things are not always "black & white", if they were we wouldn't have courts.

This is a public forum that allows users to ask questions anonymously, sometimes you even learn things.

Q: What does NIP mean ?

And I am one of those people. But the way you have worded your responses in this thread was not that of "I'm not sure but..." You said "IT TAKES" which is completely different.

A NIP is a notice of intended prosecution which is a legal document which must be served upon the registered keeper of the vehicle in relation to certain offences under the Road Traffic Act within 14 days of the offence occurring.

[maviczap]

Numpties in Politics

I could think of a million more

[no_akira]

Talking of "Grey areas of the law" and speed camera's.

Q: Do the "Average speed" cameras that you see on Motorway (roadworks) apply to motorbikes, especially as our number plates are on the back ?

Q: Obvisously not scientifically tested but I noticed ( think I have) that you can travel through camera's at higher than the rated speed but as long as your decelerating. Remember those physics lessons with little wooden trolleys and spring and paper with holes in. The camera doesn't flash ?

Q: Limehouse tunnel (London docklands) 30mph cameras, how sensitive are they ! 31mph and flash. Are they actually working ? If your between 2 cars travelling down the centre white line who is liable for the fine ? For a few years now I've been flashed when going through there and never had a fine ? :smt118

[dizzyblonde]

So what do they do with the abandoned yellow boxes, that aren't removed then then?
Hanging baskets hung from them?
Smiley faces painted on them?
Ornamental lampstands?

Sorry not helping am I?

[Milky Bar Kid]

I wish I lived in the world of Dizzy....

[maviczap]

Its what happens when you're preggers, my wife was exactly the same ;)

[Milky Bar Kid]

Its what happens when you're preggers, my wife was exactly the same ;)

No, I think Dizz has always been this way......:D

[dizzyblonde]

I wish I lived in the world of Dizzy....

yer already half way there, your blonde;)

Its what happens when you're preggers, my wife was exactly the same ;)

No, I think Dizz has always been this way......:D

Quite so.....but how do you know its not all just an illusion:smt120

[Milky Bar Kid]

Am I an illusion??

[simesb]

Q: Do the "Average speed" cameras that you see on Motorway (roadworks) apply to motorbikes, especially as our number plates are on the back ?

The cameras MAY not work, but the speed limit still applies.

Q: Obvisously not scientifically tested but I noticed ( think I have) that you can travel through camera's at higher than the rated speed but as long as your decelerating. Remember those physics lessons with little wooden trolleys and spring and paper with holes in. The camera doesn't flash ?

The camera takes two or more measurements and they have to be consistent. Your license...

Q: Limehouse tunnel (London docklands) 30mph cameras, how sensitive are they ! 31mph and flash. Are they actually working ? If your between 2 cars travelling down the centre white line who is liable for the fine ? For a few years now I've been flashed when going through there and never had a fine ? :smt118

Lucky you :rolleyes:

[no_akira]

One thing that this thread has shown is that speed cameras are an emotive issue that upsets people even among the motorcycle crowd who you'd think would despise cameras.

The Limehouse docklands tunnel is I think the best example of the lunacy of the speed cameras policy in this country. Why is a tunnel where no pedestrians have access, limited to 30 mph, there are 3 cameras, start, middle (which is the one that seems to flash at 30.5 mph) and the end in a 1.1 mile tunnel.

2 Weeks ago I spent 2 days riding around Paris where the average speed even through their tunnels, never drops below 60mph. Even the 1.6K tunnel that goes under the business district, which left me gagging a bit as it was so unexpectedly long. At one point I was at the end of a 10 bike chain filtering through peak rush hour traffic again at 60mph. OK this probably isn't a good example as all it shows really is that Parisian riders are crazy. There were still a few cameras in sections where for safety reasons you need to limit your speed, mainly less shallow bends in the road.

Somehow during the last 13 years we have turned into an apathetic nanny state.

[simesb]

One thing that this thread has shown is that speed cameras are an emotive issue that upsets people even among the motorcycle crowd who you'd think would despise cameras.

No it doesn't. I just shows that you are obsessed, yet fail to understand how the process works or why they are there to begin with. :confused:

[Ch00]

The Limehouse docklands tunnel is I think the best example of the lunacy of the speed cameras policy in this country. Why is a tunnel where no pedestrians have access, limited to 30 mph, there are 3 cameras, start, middle (which is the one that seems to flash at 30.5 mph) and the end in a 1.1 mile tunnel.

I would think the cameras are they to protect the tunnel itself. Its a major road into East London that needs to be open at all times. If the speed limit is slower then there should be less crashes and less closure time fixing the tunnel.

Also the tunnel is under the Limehouse Basin maybe they don't want it to leak?

Why is the Rotherhide tunnel only 20mph speed limit, cause its tight as sardines in there!

[Caddy2000]

There have been some very nasty accidents in the Limehouse link, one involving a bunch of lads in a BMW who lost control of the car just before they entered. Half the car went down one bore and the other half down the other........

[no_akira]

I think another reason is to pulse the traffic stream for the 7-9 am slot as its a major bottleneck for people travelling into the city. But then for the rest of the day it can seem excessive.

As a bike braking to come down to 40mph on a dual carriageway this has always been a big safety concern (especially at night) that some cager behind you who hasn't been paying attention, wipes you out over what is just a civil offence. There are a couple of these on the A12 around the corner from the new 2012 Olympic site.:smt087

[ranathari]

Don't take your chances - there was an article in the Independent last week about the Oxford speed cameras. Although they announced they would be turned off, they left film in them so they could observe what happened to average speeds as a natural experiment.

A camera outside a primary school saw the average speed go from 30mph to 40mph, going from a speed that'll hurt a child to one that'll kill a child more often than not. Given most drivers are idiots unable to judge when breaking the speed limit is appropriate (while I speed, I'd never do it around a school), I think we'll see this funding decision reversed once some high profile child fatalities occur.

[MR UKI (1)]

Don't take your chances - there was an article in the Independent last week about the Oxford speed cameras. Although they announced they would be turned off, they left film in them so they could observe what happened to average speeds as a natural experiment.

A camera outside a primary school saw the average speed go from 30mph to 40mph, going from a speed that'll hurt a child to one that'll kill a child more often than not. Given most drivers are idiots unable to judge when breaking the speed limit is appropriate (while I speed, I'd never do it around a school), I think we'll see this funding decision reversed once some high profile child fatalities occur.

It was on the BBC Breakfast news earlier this week. They left 2 camera's on (it was either in Oxford or Swindon, I can't remember which) to see what happened and there was an increase in speeding at the 2 sites. Although they did say it was purely an exercise to gauge the reaction to the camera's being switched off and they were not issuing tickets.

[yorkie_chris]

I suspect that the agency's may possibly have already stopped processing offenders because I can imagine your going to get lots of caught speeders, during August claiming that they were under the impression that they had all been turned off. Which possibly hasn't been set as precedence in court yet?

The courts, I imagine, would say "well you were still speeding".

[yorkie_chris]

A camera outside a primary school saw the average speed go from 30mph to 40mph, going from a speed that'll hurt a child to one that'll kill a child more often than not. Given most drivers are idiots unable to judge when breaking the speed limit is appropriate (while I speed, I'd never do it around a school), I think we'll see this funding decision reversed once some high profile child fatalities occur.

Will it mean a return to kids looking before running into the road?

[arenalife]

They're kids FFS

I wish there were 20mph limits at every school and cams to enforce.

[Steve_God]

Will it mean a return to kids looking before running into the road?
Possible return of some road safety adverts too maybe...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/50000/images/_51240_hedgehog300.jpg

[AndyBrad]

To be fair there does seem to be an instance of "we must be protected" rrther than doing it ourselves?

[ranathari]

Will it mean a return to kids looking before running into the road?

Kids will be kids and adults have responsibilities towards them. Not driving like a berk around schools is a fairly important one so it's a shame people responded towards the removal of speed cameras outside a school by going faster.

[timwilky]

Probably returning to the speed that has been safe and appropriate for decades until safety nazi's decide they shouldn't teach janet and john to cross the road safely and use crossings, green cross code or tufty etc. Instead tell motorists they will kill a kid if they run into the road. Why not tell kids you will die if you run into the road.

[yorkie_chris]

They're kids FFS

I wish there were 20mph limits at every school and cams to enforce.

What do you mean FFS?

FFS, they're KIDS, they don't KNOW that getting run over hurts like a b*stard.
so TEACH them to watch the road.

I would actually agree, (part time) cameras outside schools would be great. But there is part of me which says drivers watching their speed, aren't watching out for kids running out.

[simesb]

I wish there were 20mph limits at every school and cams to enforce.

And I wish that parents didn't park over the school zone road markings, in the bus stops, on the corner of junctions, and on double yellow lines when they come to pick up their little darlings.

[Kalessin]

I would actually agree, (part time) cameras outside schools would be great. But there is part of me which says drivers watching their speed, aren't watching out for kids running out.

There's a part of me that says drivers who can't be aware of their speed and watch out for children near a school shouldn't be allowed on the road.

[yorkie_chris]

There's a part of me that says drivers who can't be aware of their speed and watch out for children near a school shouldn't be allowed on the road.

BS.
You glance down at your speedo when you go through a camera. That's probably half a second, which is half a second further down the road addition to your thinking distance should a child run out.

I do not agree that both things can happen simultaneously. Your eyes can not differentiate between a moving target and other moving targets in your peripheral vision like that.

[yorkie_chris]

It was on the BBC Breakfast news earlier this week. They left 2 camera's on (it was either in Oxford or Swindon, I can't remember which) to see what happened and there was an increase in speeding at the 2 sites. Although they did say it was purely an exercise to gauge the reaction to the camera's being switched off and they were not issuing tickets.

Was this "brake" or some other c***s like that saying this? Did they say WHEN people were speeding?

I drove past a school going 100mph above the speed limit once.

[Jackie_Black]

I reckon YC is right. Lets just teach the kids not to get killed and drivers to look out for the dangerous little *******s. Then scrap speed cameras and bring back proper traffic coppers. So at least if you get done you deserve it cos they sit in huge dayglo beemers and if you can't see them you deserve a fine.

[Kalessin]

BS.
You glance down at your speedo when you go through a camera. That's probably half a second, which is half a second further down the road addition to your thinking distance should a child run out.

I do not agree that both things can happen simultaneously. Your eyes can not differentiate between a moving target and other moving targets in your peripheral vision like that.

I didn't say you can look at two things at once; of course not. But you can be aware of your speed and be looking ahead for other obstacles.

As an example, say you're in a 30 zone and you're approaching a school. Let's imagine that you were already sticking to the speed limit, as unlikely as that may be. You've also noticed that there are signs warning of speed cameras ahead. Do you:

Slow down. You were already doing 30, but there's ignorant motorists in SUVs parked on both sides of the road and you're well aware that a child may well run out from between them. You go through a camera, but you know you're only doing about 20mph.
Stay at 30mph and keep checking your speedo. You're not going to get hit by the speeding stealth tax, but you're not going to waste time and slow down just because parents and teachers can't be ar*ed to teach road safety any more.


I thought the number one rule of motorcycle safety was to ride as though everyone around you is a d***. :)

[yorkie_chris]

So are you agreeing with me or arenalife?

Either way, the one driving like a tit is going to run over a child, and the one driving sensibly is going to stop in time. (neither being caught by a speed camera).

Or you could say, if the cars are going past at 45, then the kids will watch the road, as a car whooshing past at a rate of knots looks scarier than one at tickover.

[Kalessin]

So are you agreeing with me or arenalife?

Either way, the one driving like a tit is going to run over a child, and the one driving sensibly is going to stop in time. (neither being caught by a speed camera).

Or you could say, if the cars are going past at 45, then the kids will watch the road, as a car whooshing past at a rate of knots looks scarier than one at tickover.

Neither really :)

I would be inclined to educate the children before posting a 20 limit. I would also like to enforce double yellows for about 50 yards either side of the school gates -- on both sides of the road.

The problem with educating children is that they get distracted so easily -- seeing their friends, a ball, a parent -- and everything they ever learned about everything disappears!

Unfortunately, the same is true of many motorists. Once they pass their test, it's the start of a downhill slide in driving standards. These people need to be slowed right down before they have a chance of stopping in an emergency, and there's no way of slowing them down without doing it to everybody.