View Full Version : The Popes visit
seedy100
09-09-10, 06:08 PM
So, this time next week the Pope is coming to the UK
Every taxpayer will be coughing up to fund it.
Many people will travel miles to hear him preach, many more will be inconvenienced by the traffic and crowds.
The faithfull will be enraptured
The disinterested will be …. Disinterested.
But what about the devout of other religions do we risk offending them by allowing this visit.
If it is offencive, does it matter?
the_lone_wolf
09-09-10, 06:09 PM
http://i568.photobucket.com/albums/ss125/lavale_bucket/the-bullets-are-real-your-god-is-no.jpg
Milky Bar Kid
09-09-10, 06:12 PM
Don't understand why we have to fund his visit when the vatican is loaded?
Wideboy
09-09-10, 06:13 PM
Don't understand why we have to fund his visit when the vatican is loaded?
they need it for all the court cases.......
I thought they were helping out with some of the cost of it.
His visit though whatever your views on him will increase tourists to the UK and the money rolling in.
Warthog
09-09-10, 06:21 PM
Its a total slap in the face of our supposedly secular country. Yes religious heads may visit and speak lies to their followers, but not at the expense of millions of people who aren't gullible enough to believe!! Gets me very riled up. I might ask the government to fly over my favourite band for a performance for just their fans and the tax payers can pay.
barwel1992
09-09-10, 06:22 PM
that c*** need to be shot ....
missyburd
09-09-10, 06:25 PM
that c*** need to be shot ....
Bit of an unnecessary statement that wasn't it?
Anyway, he needs all the funding for that bullet proof glass in his tartmobile :D
barwel1992
09-09-10, 06:27 PM
Bit of an unnecessary statement that wasn't it?
Anyway, he needs all the funding for that bullet proof glass in his tartmobile :D
nope totally necessary ;)
nope totally necessary ;)
indeed entirely insightful :rolleyes:
barwel1992
09-09-10, 06:39 PM
indeed entirely insightful :rolleyes:
wasn't meant to be .... i dont agree with his religion,there practice or the way they molest children or the way we have to pay for him to come her when he is swimming in money ...
Wideboy
09-09-10, 06:40 PM
wasn't meant to be .... i dont agree with his religion,there practice
and precisely its those type of comments that start wars :rolleyes:
barwel1992
09-09-10, 06:43 PM
im not out to start a war and im allowed to voice my opinion. And do you agree with every religion ?
this link explains most of the things i dont like about him/them
LINK (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23369148-pope-led-cover-up-of-child-abuse-by-priests.do)
Wideboy
09-09-10, 06:45 PM
no not in the slightest religion is the cause of most wars....... tolerance prevents them
barwel1992
09-09-10, 06:51 PM
no not in the slightest religion is the cause of most wars....... tolerance prevents them
i agree it does
i just think what the pope and co have done, and seemingly gotten off lightly with is not acceptable, and to think we are paying for him to come hear
Tim in Belgium
09-09-10, 06:54 PM
Interesting, very interesting.
Its a total slap in the face of our supposedly secular country.
If by our country you mean England, then it is not secular. If you mean the United Kingdom then the jury is out (only one component is not secular, but as a constitutional monarchy a catholic cannot ascend the throne of England (but I'm not sure about Scotland)).
I would have expected the host country to foot the bill for security provided by their own forces for any visiting head of state. It's a bit emotive in this case, but he is technically a head of state.
Wideboy
09-09-10, 06:55 PM
he's Hitler youth, they done alot of bad **** :lol:
I absolutely detest not only the actions of this man prior to him becoming pope, also the work he has undone in places such as South Africa.
I would say that it isnt him that is loaded but the organisation that he stands for, you eliminate him and you still have a very sizeable force behind him.
As with a lot of religions a lot of horrendous things are done in its name.
I was merely saying that his visit will bring an income to the country at a much needed time.
to come hear
To come hear what? :D
Much as I dislike organised religion, none of them actually preach kiddy-fiddling.
As previously stated they are indeed putting up approx £7m towards the cost.
to come hear what? :d
much as i dislike organised religion, none of them actually preach kiddy-fiddling.
flds ;)
flds ;)
Meh, they're not organised. :(
Ooh i dunno, Warren Jeffs was quite ORGANised :)
the last time the pope came to Scotland i was but a lad, he went past in his pope wagon at the end of my street. i thought i would get him exited by mooning at him as did a few of my mates.
i furkin hate organised religion. however i dont mind people having a faith (just dont preach it to me).
davepreston
09-09-10, 07:05 PM
as said he's a head of state so we as with all other invited guests protect them at our expence, we have protected evil people for peace talks and the such so i see no differance in someone who is like by some while vilified by others (im not saying which side in on)
he s coming then he'll be gone again and hopefully that will be the end of it
Don't understand why we have to fund his visit when the vatican is loaded?
He's a visiting head of state of a country as well as being head of the catholic church. Visiting heads have their visits funded by the host country. At least his church is coughing up £7 mill.
that cu*t need to be shot ....
Pity its a U-rated forum or I might just tell you what I think of bigots, and those that operate at the other end of the social spectrum.
wasn't meant to be .... i dont agree with his religion,there practice or the way they molest children or the way we have to pay for him to come her when he is swimming in money ...
By all means don't agree with his religion. But an awful lot of people do. Are you saying you want to stop every Catholic from the freedom of practicing their religion?
How many millions of children has the Catholic church molested? And whilst you are doing your extensive research perhaps you could also include the ongoing cases that the C of E are currently being investigated for.
Do you also cry foul so vehemently when Obama, Mertal, Sarcousi etc visit? And don't forget, some of those countries get involved in more 'black ops' than the church. And are you aware of the neutral negotiating the various churches get involved in where politics would only get in the way of a peaceful resolution?
Maybe you need to have a look at how much the various religions, including Muslim spend on aid before you scatter your toys across the floor.
yorkie_chris
09-09-10, 07:28 PM
I'm not going to preach any religion, but I disagree with how vehemently athiests mock those who choose to have faith. Just let them get on with it.
wasn't meant to be .... i dont agree with his religion,there practice or the way they molest children or the way we have to pay for him to come her when he is swimming in money ...
I was going to retort, but there's no point, it's all been covered.
Who are "they"? I went to a catholic school, does that mean I got rogered a lot?
If by our country you mean England, then it is not secular. If you mean the United Kingdom then the jury is out (only one component is not secular, but as a constitutional monarchy a catholic cannot ascend the throne of England (but I'm not sure about Scotland)).
Funny idea that considering our system of government was started by Protestants.
davepreston
09-09-10, 07:30 PM
Who are "they"? I went to a catholic school, does that mean I got rogered a lot?
no you got rodgered alot cos you is a gay innit
How many millions of children has the Catholic church molested?
No idea but I can confirm he's killed many millions through a certain stance on condoms ;)
C
Funny idea that considering our system of government was started by Protestants.
Don't follow :confused:
No idea but I can confirm he's killed many millions through a certain stance on condoms ;)
C
You're a very bad man and you're going to hell! ;):D
Save a place for me by the hearth, at least it will be warm:grouphug:
barwel1992
09-09-10, 07:47 PM
ohh im all for people following there own beliefs as sead don't preach them to me
and im not just against the catholic church there are other religions that i also have the same fellings about , also when i sead they i was meaning the priest's or others that have been found (or not) to have molested children and then covered up by the church, i was not referring to catholics that have not done any thing wrong ....
ohh and FYI over 10,000 allegations of child abuse from 1950-2002 were filed against the catholic church
The pope is holding his mass at our site in Longbridge, so far it has cost us a fair few thousands to which we are getting very little of this back, not even half! We have had to get PL insurance to cover the 100,000 expected people. Pay for the police costs of the day for crowd control, and a lot of other things.
Its also happening about 10 miles from where me and drew live...... can see us staying in that sunday
tactcom7
09-09-10, 07:59 PM
According to the president of South Africa you can wash away AIDS with a good shower...
yorkie_chris
09-09-10, 08:02 PM
Don't follow :confused:
funny to say it's secular since part of the cause for the civil war was a religious dispute.
I was backing up your point not disagreeing with it.
funny to say it's secular since part of the cause for the civil war was a religious dispute.
Ah but that was the right religion vs the wrong religion :D
I was backing up your point not disagreeing with it.
I was just being dim...
I think the Pope should be allowed to visit if he wants to, after all he preaches peace. We enjoy religious freedom here, I see no reason to undermine that fundamental constitutional principle. His Holiness isn't personally responsible for child abuse cases, and I don't believe that he covered it up either.
The reason why Catholics are barred from various offices - including Prime Minister and Monarch - is that the Act of Settlement (1707) says so. Catholicism was associated with absolutist European-style government, as was the case in France and in Spain. The Act of Settlement was designed to complete the assurance of the Protestant succession in what had become the United Kingdom following the defeat of Jacobitism in Ireland and in Scotland.
All very dated now....
Tim in Belgium
09-09-10, 08:27 PM
But should you UK tax payers pay for his freedom of speech?
But should you UK tax payers pay for his freedom of speech?
We pay for everyone else's, so why not for his? Just because some of the population don't agree with his views, what diffo does that make?
davepreston
09-09-10, 08:31 PM
I think the Pope should be allowed to visit if he wants to, after all he preaches peace. We enjoy religious freedom here, I see no reason to undermine that fundamental constitutional principle. His Holiness isn't personally responsible for child abuse cases, and I don't believe that he covered it up either.
The reason why Catholics are barred from various offices - including Prime Minister and Monarch - is that the Act of Settlement (1707) says so. Catholicism was associated with absolutist European-style government, as was the case in France and in Spain. The Act of Settlement was designed to complete the assurance of the Protestant succession in what had become the United Kingdom following the defeat of Jacobitism in Ireland and in Scotland.
All very dated now....
was tony blair not a lefty or did he change after he left office
was tony blair not a lefty or did he change after he left office
He went to the dark side after he left office. Don't actually think it should have precluded him in the first place.
no_akira
09-09-10, 09:30 PM
"the catholic church is not a force for good in the world" Stephen Fry (Nov, 2009)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NL5WVecNdhk
I do like Stephen Fry but I do think in this instance he is too emotionally involved and angry at the RC stance on homosexuality and just comes across as a little bitter. It could also be the way the clip has been edited by the BBC as well. In the full version its about an hour long and he does make some good points.
In this Global world that we now live in, who is a force for good? If there is something we have learned lately its we cant trust the corporations as they can't think beyond their 2 year profit projections.
I have great admiration for all the Catholic priests / nuns who are out doing missionary work in places such as Columbia, Mexico and Africa all without financial motivation. I think they are true role models / heroes.
I wish the RC church would change its stance on many things, let priests marry, seems reasonable. But then again its a job that often requires out of hours interruptions which would add even more stress to a young familys life so..
But in its defense it is about having an institution that isn't corrupted by fad and fashion. Also in the 3rd world where government / police are often totally corrupt its the only place for the little man to turn maybe.
In a world that seems to be going to hell in a handcart, to take part in a ceremony that has been unaltered for almost 2 millennia is spiritually helpfull to a lot of people.
If screaming / fainting as an old dude trundles past in a white ice cream van is the highlight of your decade, who are we to judge.:safe:
husky03
09-09-10, 10:06 PM
Yeehaa for his visit-will mean some heavy o/t at work and then the two sides on the divide will start their nonsense and some bad boys will be getting the jail- perfect
MisterTommyH
09-09-10, 10:36 PM
1. He's here as a head of state. We pay for the security when the head of state from China comes, so how can you justify any different here.
2. Agree with the modern Catholic church or not. Our whole unwritten constitution / ethics are based on christian morality (i.e. it's illegal to kill etc) which all stems from the catholic church. Just imagine where we might be if all our laws were based on other religions. Would you like it to be illegal to listen to music?
3. Why is it so acceptable to 'attack' the christian denominations in this country when to so the same about many other religions, including Judaism or Islam would have people branded as anti-semetic or racist?
I too have personal issues with the current pope (his history, and the allegations), and as I was raised Catholic I practice these objections by not practicing, but the Christian ethos of tolerance is one our country is based upon, and thus Catholics have the right to practice, and attend a service by the head of their religion. Again, why is it acceptable to state that this man should be shot seen as acceptable, when a similar statement about other religions leaders would no doubt be censured?
husky03
09-09-10, 10:45 PM
Religion-allways a sure bet to divide man and stir up hate for others
MisterTommyH
09-09-10, 10:56 PM
True. Even I'll say it often causes more harm than good. But there are those that need their religions and beliefs. It seems to be a natural human instinct to believe in some kind of spiritual being, as different religions have sprung up all over the world, independantly of each other.
I just think it's an apt commentry on our society that it's acceptable to slate some religions, but not others.
BigBaddad
10-09-10, 05:59 AM
http://i568.photobucket.com/albums/ss125/lavale_bucket/the-bullets-are-real-your-god-is-no.jpg
I wonder if he's got any Cider lollys.
Tim in Belgium
10-09-10, 07:10 AM
I just think it's an apt commentry on our society that it's acceptable to slate some religions, but not others.
I'll happily slate all religions.
Tim in Belgium
10-09-10, 07:23 AM
Maybe I should rephrase the above to "challenge" rather than "slate" ;) .
Our whole unwritten constitution / ethics are based on christian morality (i.e. it's illegal to kill etc) which all stems from the catholic church.
Why is it that the Christian church claim the monopoly on western morality?
I don't think they do, C...
But it has to be better than stoning people for the 'crime' of adultery on fabricated evidence, no?
timwilky
10-09-10, 08:11 AM
I was born into a practising catholic family, my grandmother assured me I would burn in hell if I did not go to church every Sunday, and was in my late teens and walking out of the family home due to rows about enforcing their views on me.
I know a catholic priest fairly well. He is a decent man, he knows my objection to his religion is based on their dogmatic views on :- Divorce, contraception, abortion, priest celibacy etc. How the hell can somebody give comfort to anyone suffering the pains of normal family life, when they have absolutely no knowledge of living that life.
I would rather live by my own morel code than somebody else's dogma.
Ok, that aside.
Should the pope be permitted to visit. Of course.
As a head of state with all the diplomatic entanglement involved. Yes he has been elected by his democratic process :- College of cardinals.
Should we fund his activities. No, he is here as CEO of one of the richest corporations in the world, his commercial activities visiting his customers are his concerns, not our.
So whilst talking to government ministers, etc. He should have full diplomatic rights, however, when on the street or his popemobile (are they going to re use the old one with a 1000 miles on that has sat in the commercial vehicle museum at Leyland for decades) meeting/greeting his customers then it is up to him to provide minders etc.
The trouble is I see it no different to a major football game. The hosting club can steward all they want and refuse to pay for police inside the ground. However the police have a responsibility to manage the large crowds coming/going.
MisterTommyH
10-09-10, 08:55 AM
Why is it that the Christian church claim the monopoly on western morality?
I don't think they necessarily do now. But aren't most of our laws are based on the fact that christianity was the main religion at the time they were formulated, and while there has been some diversion from that in modern times (abortion, gay rights etc) the overall basis for the majority of our laws is based on Christianity.
husky03
10-09-10, 09:06 AM
Why is it that the Christian church claim the monopoly on western morality?
Because they have brainwashed most people to believe that to think otherwise means you'll go to hell-funny how you don't hear much about it all before the alleged jebus arrival- the native tribes of every country through out the world were doing not to bad before "the word" was spread.
no_akira
10-09-10, 09:08 AM
I was born into a practising catholic family,
I would rather live by my own morel code than somebody else's dogma
Trouble is how much of that is actually your own..... could you be in denial....:smt083
When it comes to the crunch and all that....."There are no atheists in foxholes"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_no_atheists_in_foxholes
Tim in Belgium
10-09-10, 09:12 AM
There are also no angels in heaven ;)
robh539
10-09-10, 09:19 AM
well I live just over mile from the park in Birmingham, its going to be hell ;) . There closing all roads within a mile of the park. so that stuffed the area with traffic then. this includes the A38 to a motorway junction, that's before i think about the cost, and are pockets.
I think it will be a motorbike weekend.
timwilky
10-09-10, 09:20 AM
Trouble is how much of that is actually your own..... could you be in denial....:smt083
Yeah, so what are you saying. My moral code is based on my catholic upbring. Gee whiz, of course it is. But of course it is my code. I have taken what I want, rejected what I want, added what I want.
Just because I don't believe in a god, doesn't mean I shouldn't obey some of the commandments. but just because a bible, koran, or any other book says do/don't etc doesn't make it morally right/or wrong. It is my judgement and the way I want to live my life that decides if it is right or wrong.
Tim in Belgium
10-09-10, 09:29 AM
Tim, why are you thanking God in your profile thing ;) ?
http://209.85.48.8/2644/194/emo/fishing.gif
husky03
10-09-10, 09:30 AM
I have taken what I want, rejected what I want, added what I want.
It is my judgement and the way I want to live my life that decides if it is right or wrong.
Couldn't agree more-its what life is about-its when people follow a code set by others without questioning it that problems arise-:shock:$hit wait a minute, i'm a copper and that means.................
timwilky
10-09-10, 09:41 AM
Tim, why are you thanking God in your profile thing ;) ?
http://209.85.48.8/2644/194/emo/fishing.gif
Damm, just because I don't believe in a particular deity , doesn't mean I cannot use others belief. What do I change it to ? Ray Allen style :- Thank your god that I am not in Yorkshire?
husky03
10-09-10, 09:51 AM
Ray Allen ?- you mean Dave?
Our whole unwritten constitution / ethics are based on christian morality (i.e. it's illegal to kill etc) which all stems from the catholic church. Just imagine where we might be if all our laws were based on other religions.
Why are Christians always so quick to forget that the 'laws' of their religion have been cherry picked from Judaism? The bible is, after all, a Jewish book.
Why are Christians always so quick to forget that the 'laws' of their religion have been cherry picked from Judaism? The bible is, after all, a Jewish book.
Islam is an Abrahamic religion too. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all branches of the same family tree.
MisterTommyH
10-09-10, 11:27 AM
Why are Christians always so quick to forget that the 'laws' of their religion have been cherry picked from Judaism? The bible is, after all, a Jewish book.
Thats true - Perhapse I should have said Judeo-christianity?
I think I'm coming across here as a religious person. Worth saying that I absolutly am not. Don't go to church, believe in tolerance where the church doesn't etc. Just don't see how you can not describe europe / USA etc as anything but a christian based society, even with the majority of people not believing. I reckon thats how the majority of the rest of the world view us.
Also, the Old Testament is a Jewish Book, the Torah. The new testament is a collection of writings picked by a council chaired by the roman emperor to suit what they believed at the time.
His rave was originally going to be held at Coventry Airport, and Warwickshire Constabulary spent £80k on planning for that, only for it to be moved to Cofton. We (Warwickshire Council-taxpayers) are footing the bill for that still-born fiasco.
Personally I have nothing but respect for the Pope, and precious little of that.
I like the joke about the leaders of the 5 (?) major religions being killed in a plane crash and arriving at the Pearly Gates. As the gates open they see God. At least four of them are going to say "Oh ****!"
timwilky
10-09-10, 11:37 AM
Ray Allen ?- you mean Dave?
Whoops yes, Ray was the man who always stuck his arm up Lord Charles arse. So he should fit right in with the subject matter of this thread.
husky03
10-09-10, 11:45 AM
Whoops yes, Ray was the man who always stuck his arm up Lord Charles ****. So he should fit right in with the subject matter of this thread.
:smt046
Steve_God
10-09-10, 12:25 PM
The Who's Visit? I know nothing of this 'Pope' ye speak of...
I am very annoyed and actually out of pocket due to the popes visit, as i live across the road from Cofton Park in birmingham, where he is visiting, the ENTIRE estate is being closed off and will need a letter to get through the marshalled barriers. as they only send 1 out to each household, i cant go out for work that weekend from the friday to the monday, as the mother-in-law will be using the letter so she can get back and forth to work.
gutted cos its my birthday drinks that friday aswell, so unsure if i can get home on the night.
bloody religion, all it does is cause problems for the small minded.
I am very annoyed and actually out of pocket due to the popes visit, as i live across the road from Cofton Park in birmingham, where he is visiting, the ENTIRE estate is being closed off and will need a letter to get through the marshalled barriers. as they only send 1 out to each household, i cant go out for work that weekend from the friday to the monday, as the mother-in-law will be using the letter so she can get back and forth to work.
gutted cos its my birthday drinks that friday aswell, so unsure if i can get home on the night.
bloody religion, all it does is cause problems for the small minded.
Pho toe cop e er ;) but you'll need e lec trick ery for it ;)
tactcom7
12-09-10, 06:01 PM
Dunno if it's already contained in the thread but there's a program all about the pope on tv tomorrow night if anyones interested...
Kalessin
12-09-10, 06:40 PM
Dunno if it's already contained in the thread but there's a program all about the pope on tv tomorrow night if anyones interested...
Bet it doesn't say his entire career has the stench of evil about it!
http://www.slate.com/id/2247861/
tactcom7
12-09-10, 06:44 PM
Well in the advert I saw for it the guy presenting it was giving him a right slating!
blue curvy jester
15-09-10, 12:00 PM
Pho toe cop e er ;) but you'll need e lec trick ery for it ;)
Pah don't have that in brum yet
blue curvy jester
15-09-10, 12:06 PM
I am a complete non beliver and ahve no interest in this guy coming here.
But i think the problem with the £12-13 milion we are coughing up has got more to do with the guy rather than the office he holds does anyone have any issues with the £ 2-3 million the dali lama costs us every year when he is not a head of state.
As a head of state he is granted protection at the countries expense just as the queen gets all her protection payed for when she goes abroad ( even though shes worth about £14 billion inc assets )
on a second minor point our country is not really a secular state as the queen is the head of state and is the head of the chuch of england ( a Cathoilc docterine church with a different titular head rather than a protestant church)
WeegieBlue
15-09-10, 12:42 PM
I'm annoyed too. Tomorrow, my commute into Glasgow is being disrupted as the M77 is being closed - believe it or not - to be used as a car park for all those going to see Mr Pope at Bellahouston Park. This means a huge detour and no doubt some horrific traffic everywhere else. R-U-B-B-I-S-H!
MisterTommyH
19-09-10, 08:46 AM
So whats the disruption actually like for those of you around Cofton Park?
titular
Fnurr...... he said titular :-$
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