View Full Version : Category B can i keep it ?
hindle8907
20-09-10, 04:24 PM
What if I want to keep the bike and not dispose of it ?
The engineer considers your vehicle to be damaged beyond economic repair with a pre-accident value of £3000.00 and the salvage valued at £100.00. This leaves a net valuation of £2900.00.
This is not an offer from the third party’s insurers. It is simply a report so that we can place a value on your vehicle.
If you agree with the valuation, you may dispose of the vehicle. In that case, please forward the receipt for the salvage obtained. If you cannot obtain the value of the salvage set out in the report, let me know as the inspecting engineer may know of a salvage dealer who can give you the assessed salvage.
The engineer has classed your vehicle as Category B
lol salvage value of 100 quid, the callipers and braided lines are worth more than that ?
can anyone advise ?
Don't think so - can only be broken for some spares as a B.
It's only C & D you can put back on the road. A goes straight to the crusher.
andrewsmith
20-09-10, 04:28 PM
cat B means the frames probably completed goosed (twisted, cracked or snapped).
Parts will depend upon the age and state of them and then you would be hit with the disposal charge for the frame and non salvageable parts
the_lone_wolf
20-09-10, 04:35 PM
Don't think so - can only be broken for some spares as a B.
It's only C & D you can put back on the road. A goes straight to the crusher.
This^^^
A = no salvageable components, entire vehicle must be destroyed
B = components may be salvaged but shell (or frame for a bike) must be destroyed
I wouldn't want to ride a Cat B bike, let alone consider buying one, and I suspect somewhere along the line proof of the frame destruction will be required
hindle8907
20-09-10, 04:37 PM
its only a small crack on the steering stop on the frame that's cracked I am thinking track bike..... and all the front end is twisted.
everything else is fine
yorkie_chris
20-09-10, 04:37 PM
Disposal charge? You get paid for a frame when you weigh it in! Does not mean frame is cracked either, sometimes they are fine.
Dodgy ground, if you can keep it, do... it's obviously brilliant earner. But you can't put it back on the road.
However I do know that you can't purchase a cat B vehicle at the auctions without a waste carrier license or some BS like that. Where is the bike? Still at your place?
stuff
more stuff
I reckon that's a great opportunity :D Frames are not tested as part of an MOT which is all that is required (or will be required within a year) to put back on the road.
Up to you if you want to do that - or use as a track bike or part out.
given the engineer's report you have, there's no need to get it crushed.
hindle8907
20-09-10, 04:38 PM
yeah dude at my place
I reckon that's a great opportunity :D Frames are not tested as part of an MOT which is all that is required (or will be required within a year) to put back on the road.
I doubt insurance would be valid on a Cat B - and I think an MOT tester could fail a bike on a visible frame crack (although the frame is not actually tested).
yorkie_chris
20-09-10, 04:44 PM
I think the thing to do would be contact the 3rd party insurers and say you're happy with a valuation of £3000 less £100 for keeping the salvage... see what happens.
yorkie_chris
20-09-10, 04:46 PM
TLW, I have seen perfectly intact (well, bit rashed) cat B bikes... and cat D bikes with stoved in frames and 2mm wide cracks in the headstock welds! The little letter means absolutely F all!
I doubt insurance would be valid on a Cat B - and I think an MOT tester could fail a bike on a visible frame crack (although the frame is not actually tested).
They can fail it on non-functioning lockstops but that is a dead easy fix. Very common thing and hardly a dangerous fault.
I have absolutely no idea, but I wouldn't mind trying it to find out. I'd argue the toss, if it's safe and has an MOT, insurance isn't going to be an issue. Whether they'd give you insurance in the first place... dunno!
Owenski
20-09-10, 04:48 PM
Disposal charge? You get paid for a frame when you weigh it in! Does not mean frame is cracked either, sometimes they are fine.
Dodgy ground, if you can keep it, do... it's obviously brilliant earner. But you can't put it back on the road.
However I do know that you can't purchase a cat B vehicle at the auctions without a waste carrier license or some BS like that. Where is the bike? Still at your place?
I think the thing to do would be contact the 3rd party insurers and say you're happy with a valuation of £3000 less £100 for keeping the salvage... see what happens.
+1
Your on to a winner there mate, get the pay out sell off all the decent bits on ebay to make even more cash then go out an buy another one (selling mine shortly ;)) Weigh in the rest of the scrap metal you'll do alright out of this especaially if brakes and engine are undamaged rear wheel will fetch a few quid too.
Good result.
yorkie_chris
20-09-10, 04:50 PM
When you're done, take an angle grinder to the frame... take some pictures of the bits, keep the VIN plate and bit of the headstock with the number on it and weigh the rest in. Then send the V5 off saying you scrapped it.
hindle8907
20-09-10, 05:02 PM
I want to make a track bike :)
Never really fancied throwing my only form of transport down the track but I got no excuse if I got 2 bikes :)
hindle8907
20-09-10, 05:34 PM
Category A – Scrap only This means that there are few or no economically salvageable parts and the vehicle is of value only for scrap metal.
Category B – Break for spare parts if economically viable, excluding any residual scrap value.
Category C – Repairable total loss where the repair costs (including VAT) exceed the pre-accident value of the vehicle.
Category D – Repairable total loss where the repair costs (including VAT) do NOT exceed the pre-accident value of the vehicle.
Vehicles categorised as Category A, B or C require a vehicle identity check (VIC) before the DVLA will issue a registration document. This will also then be noted on the V5C registration document.
the_lone_wolf
20-09-10, 05:49 PM
TLW, I have seen perfectly intact (well, bit rashed) cat B bikes... and cat D bikes with stoved in frames and 2mm wide cracks in the headstock welds! The little letter means absolutely F all!That's great, but it doesn't make any difference to what the law says has to happen...
And it won't make it worth any more when you come to sell it...
SoulKiss
20-09-10, 06:13 PM
That's great, but it doesn't make any difference to what the law says has to happen...
And it won't make it worth any more when you come to sell it...
+1
Also consider that if you track it and have missed something the engineer spotted and take someone out when the frame gives up you dont have any insurance....
you can actually put a cat b back on the road, i checked this out, if you are willing to pay for it to be repaired, you contact the dvla and say that you want to put it back on the road they send you a new chassis, you take the bike to a mot station and they stamp the new chassis number on the frame, once the bike is repaired you need to have it tested, if it passes it will go on a q plate, and the dvla will put it on the logbook, there are places where you can have the frame jigged and straightened dempending the damage.
i had a gsx400f which was written off as cat c, this was because of a small mark on the frame, cantcted the dvla and they sent me out a new chasis, they contact the police to check whether the bike was road worthy, they said it okay, to place near me which bought the bike off me, told him what happened he done an mot test on it, due he was a qualified mot tester and he had the new chassis number printed it on the bike and registered to himself.
You need a breakers licence to buy a cat B so by rights you shouldn't be offered it. If a breaker puts a cat B back on the road and gets caught he loses his licence. There is a scam going about though that allows breakers to buy hundreds of cars for peanuts and then putting them back on the road to unsuspecting buyers making a fortune so they don't care if they lose their licence or not. As has been said if they get them inspected then legaly there is nothing to stop them going back on the road.
jay987 you don't need to contact the DVLA to put a cat C bike back on the road.
davepreston
20-09-10, 08:08 PM
get it back for 100 quid, buy a new frame for 100 quid use as track bike
Biker Biggles
20-09-10, 09:00 PM
Lots of conflicting advice here,so it cant all be BASAT.Id be very careful,indeed Id just take the full amount from the insurance and let them deal with the salvage.
But before I did that Id remove anything valuable and replace them with crap bits.
hindle8907
20-09-10, 09:16 PM
Ok lol, I'll just ask can I keep it for the 100 and see what they say. If ok then I'll turn into track or break for parts, will update and let you know.
hindle8907
21-09-10, 07:53 AM
http://motorsalvagedirect.com/abi.php <<< Info
Steve_God
21-09-10, 08:04 AM
Sorry to side track slightly, but after my bump late last year, although the damage inspector gave the values or the bike and salvage value, (and I kept the salvage as such) he mentioned nothing of what category it was, and I've since had it MOT'ed after repairing it myself and all seems fine legally as far as I'm aware - not quite sure what to make of it now following the comments here though...
hindle8907
21-09-10, 08:04 AM
Insurers/self insurers/agents must always use their best endeavours to assume responsibility for the disposal of all categories of salvage, whether first or third party claims. If a claimant wishes to retain salvage, the insurer should point out the beneficial effects of the Code in reducing vehicle crime, the stigmatisation which will attach to the vehicle, and in respect of A/B salvage, the duty of care under waste regulation legislation.
hindle8907
21-09-10, 08:32 AM
removed.
yorkie_chris
21-09-10, 08:48 AM
"use best endevours" Don't have to 100%, just have to try convince you.
"shall only be auctioned"... maybe not a problem as you already own it.Have a see, you haven't accepted the offer yet so you still own the bike.
hindle8907
21-09-10, 09:05 AM
http://motorsalvagedirect.com/abi.php <<< Info
Insurers/self insurers/agents must always use their best endeavours to assume responsibility for the disposal of all categories of salvage, whether first or third party claims. If a claimant wishes to retain salvage, the insurer should point out the beneficial effects of the Code in reducing vehicle crime, the stigmatisation which will attach to the vehicle, and in respect of A/B salvage, the duty of care under waste regulation legislation.
CODE OF PRACTICE FOR THE DISPOSAL OF MOTOR VEHICLE SALVAGE (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CBwQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abi.org.uk%2FInformation%2FCo des_and_Guidance_Notes%2F40510.pdf&rct=j&q=40510.pdf&ei=mnKYTOuyKtS5jAfoqoUC&usg=AFQjCNEH0yUKhDQarIPFq6j3oaVFkoJ86Q&sig2=OrpIIrsllq5cFReGtmcigA&cad=rja)
^^ offical code of practice and the piece above which i copied has now been removed from the official updated version and now States
Salvage Disposers should use their best endeavours to assume responsibility for the disposal of all
categories of salvage, whether first or third party claims.
**Throughout this Code all references to ’Salvage Disposer’ shall be deemed to include members of any of the supporting organisations
that dispose of salvage, including insurers and their agents, self-insurers and their agents and associated companies**
No mention of claimant now,
Any vehicle designated end of life shall be treated
in accordance with the End-of-Life Vehicles
Regulations 2003. Vehicles within scope (cars,
light vans and 3 wheelers excluding trikes) must
be issued with a Certificate of Destruction. A
Notification of Destruction (V860) will only be
issued for vehicles outside scope e.g. HGVs and
motorcycles.
Identification marks on engines and any other
salvaged parts must not be erased. Copies of
V860s must be retained by the salvage agent for
a period of at least 6 years for audit purposes, or
such other period as defined in the Motor Salvage
Operators Regulations 2002 or any subsequent
amendments.
Owenski
21-09-10, 09:39 AM
What year/mileage was your bike hindle?
hindle8907
21-09-10, 09:43 AM
K5 06 plate 6000 miles
SUPERSTARDJ01
21-09-10, 01:23 PM
Motorbike Write Off Categories
Category A
Vehicle must be crushed.
All of it. May not be resold. Entire motorcycle must be crushed. Severely damaged with no serviceable parts, or already stripped out shell. DVLA require "Notification of Destruction".
Category B
Bike may not be returned to road.
Parts may be sold. Motorcycle itself may not be resold. Damaged beyond economical repair, usually with severe structural/frame damage. Parts can be removed and sold. http://www.ukwheels.com/motorbike_crash.jpg
Category C
Repairable. Possibly structural damage. Cost of damage (at main dealer prices and labour rates) is more than book value of bike.
Repairable salvage. Usually applies to motorcycles with significant frame damage, where cost of repairs exceeds book value. Can be sold complete to Motorcycle Trade or Public.
Category D
Repairable. Probably non-structural damage. May have been economic to repair, but insurer doesn't want to.
Repairable salvage. Minimal damage, probably not structural, but insurer does not want to repair, even though it might be economic to do so. Often stolen and recovered after claim has been paid
Category F
Damaged by fire. Damaged by fire. Should be repairable. If not safely repairable, it should be called Category A or B.
Category X
Repairable. Minor Damage.
Insurance-speak for 'Not Recorded', but subject to some claim and sold on by them as repairable salvage. This is Not an official category, this is what you may see in a private advert.
Insurance companies often call vehicles involved in an accident a 'write off' or 'total loss', which gives the wrong impression to anyone not familiar with the insurance or salvage industry. An insurance company faced with a claim first estimates the financial cost of repairing the vehicle to its pre-accident condition.
The cost of the repair will be based on new parts prices and garage labour charges, often making it uneconomical for the insurance company to carry out the repair. A person doing the work themselves and sourcing recycled spares can often make the repair viable.
If the financial cost to the insurance company is the same or near to the market price, the insurance company would normally call this vehicle a write off which means that they will 'write off' the financial cost of the repair, not the vehicle itself.
From an insurance point of view, that frame must not appear on the road. The vin plates must eventually be returned to the DVLA with a certificate of destruction. One of the overriding reasons is to ensure crashed bikes identites cannot be affixed to a stolen bike. Its also about ensuring that 2 half of cars don't get welded together to make an unsafe one.
If the engineer has deemed the vehicle cat B, don't forget it will be registered on MIAFTA (HPI to you), and should that frame/bike "ever" end up involved in an accident/theft, the police will be looking to you as the first suspect. It's essentially no more at this point than a pretty boat anchor, and should be treated as such. Even if you think the bike could become a "trackday" bike, the engineer doesnt, and his qualification is the one that decides he knows more than you.
It's a moot point, that you should even be allowed to keep the vehicle without a salvage contractors waste disposal licence, and certainly the insurers ought make every effort to take that bike from you so that it can be disposed of in the official way.
Lets say you have an accident, on a track, then even if there was any suspicion whatsoever that thte handling/repair of the bike/frame could have led, even indirectly, to a loss of control, then anyone you also took out willl have a claim against you, and theres no insurance that will cover a cat b vehicle in use.
Frankly, its just not worth the aggravation.
hindle8907
21-09-10, 04:26 PM
its worth the aggravation to break though, 100 quid ... can easy make a good few hundred quid on it.
Iv seen SV's with dead engineers go on ebay for around 500 quid could pop the engine into one of them new bike then for peanuts.
when i have finished ill get the frame crushed and send the vin/doucments to whoever wants to see proof.
yorkie_chris
21-09-10, 06:00 PM
Lets say you have an accident, on a track, then even if there was any suspicion whatsoever that thte handling/repair of the bike/frame could have led, even indirectly, to a loss of control, then anyone you also took out willl have a claim against you, and theres no insurance that will cover a cat b vehicle in use.
Frankly, its just not worth the aggravation.
No they won't. Even when gross negligence and utter stupidity causes a total loss of a bike to someone else on track then the person with the knackered bike has absolutely no comeback on the person who just wiped them out.
I think it is worth the aggravation for the sake of the best part of £3k in parts!
There is part of me that would think break it now and argue the toss later!
WeegieBlue
21-09-10, 08:54 PM
I work for an insurance company, and can tell you the following as fact, having discussed with the DVLA and VOSA.
A cat B write off can have a VIC check done and then an MOT, after which it can legally be put back on the road as safe. The V5 will say it was a previous cat B, so selling on will be pretty much impossible.
The thing is, the majority of insurers will not insure a cat B at all - I called the Association of British Insurers and they knew of none in the UK. You can actually buy a policy as insurers don't carry out HPI checks prior to issuing docs, however in the event of a claim, if it comes to light you knew it was a cat B and didn't tell them, your policy becomes invalid, and you are personally liable for any costs.
On the other hand, if you buy a cat B and insure it without knowledge of this, you WILL be insured as you insured in "utmost good faith".
Hope that helps
WB
yorkie_chris
21-09-10, 09:32 PM
But it's technically "waste" to be "disposed of" until it has that VIC check done right (is this just cars or bikes too)... (if bikes can be put back on the road without then that tips the market on its head for a while!!)?
TBH I thought VIC was a thing to avoid ringers not a safety thing but I am no expert on it.
WeegieBlue
21-09-10, 10:03 PM
But it's technically "waste" to be "disposed of" until it has that VIC check done right (is this just cars or bikes too)... (if bikes can be put back on the road without then that tips the market on its head for a while!!)?
TBH I thought VIC was a thing to avoid ringers not a safety thing but I am no expert on it.
Bang on. The idea is that you SHOULD strip it for parts and that's it.
The VIC check is purely to make sure all the numbers tie up - chassis, reg etc. Then the MOT checks road worthiness. Bikes and cars need both before they can be deemed road legal if they have been cat B'd.
barwel1992
21-09-10, 10:46 PM
i wouln't put it back on the road, seems like theres to much red tape. Now a track bike onthe other hand :D
I was in the same position after running into the side of a small car at low speed with the Sprint on a roundabout after an old dear decided she didn't want to give way.
Was offered a decent payout and retain the salvage. As it was only 13500 miles on a 53 plate in great nick I have decided to keep it and will probably strip it for parts when my thumb finally heals enough to weald some spanners. Unless I can sell it on to a breaker for a sensible sum that is.
Judging by the way the pikeys will scavange for ally etc then the scrap on the frame alone should be worth something. All except frame, forks and nose fairing ok.
beabert
22-09-10, 12:05 PM
its worth the aggravation to break though, 100 quid ... can easy make a good few hundred quid on it.
Iv seen SV's with dead engineers go on ebay for around 500 quid could pop the engine into one of them new bike then for peanuts.
when i have finished ill get the frame crushed and send the vin/doucments to whoever wants to see proof.
Oh did i laugh http://www.indianguitartabs.com/images/smilies/Rolling%20on%20the%20floor%20laughing.gif i hope you reported them.
hindle8907
22-09-10, 12:15 PM
lol ##!**'
SV650Racer
22-09-10, 05:43 PM
No they won't. Even when gross negligence and utter stupidity causes a total loss of a bike to someone else on track then the person with the knackered bike has absolutely no comeback on the person who just wiped them out.
I think it is worth the aggravation for the sake of the best part of £3k in parts!
There is part of me that would think break it now and argue the toss later!
You can personally sue someone though. Sadly someone I know has had this happen to them, negligence was one of the claims. His bike was impounded and kept as evidence. Not a nice state of affairs.
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