Anyone work for Barclays? RFID cards

[tigersaw]

<rant>

I'm not getting a definitive answer from their 'help' as to whether I can have my RFID visa debit card replaced with a standard one.
Had a debate with them today, their stance is that all fraudulant transactions will be refunded, so whats the big deal. They admit that they will allow 5 x £15 transactions per day with the remote possibility of a PIN challenge.
My argument is that I mislay my card, several hundred pounds may have been taken before I discover anything, and that it is 'my duty to inform them of the loss immediately' (their words) in order to get the transactions refunded.
I'd never dream of setting foot in the retailers they list as accepting the technology anyway, and I feel this is something I should opt in to, not be forced.

</rant>

[arenalife]

I can't see them screwing you over it if it happens, would be terrible publicity for their technology. Anyway, informing them of loss immediately should mean as soon as you find out, not the second it happens. If you knew immediately you'd know where it was wouldn't you!

[Fizzy Fish]

Are you talking about the new 'contactless' payment, where you just swipe your card on a terminal in the shop and they take the money from your account?

If so, sorry bud but it's here to stay, and all the banks, shops, etc will have it in the next few years. It's actually the payment companies such as Visa, Mastercard and AmEx who are behind the technology - Barclays just happens to be the main player who's using it at the moment.

There are two main features to protect your account if your card is stolen without you realising and cancelling it - there's a limit to what can be deducted without entering a PIN (it was £10 but is now/will shortly be moving to £15), and also for lower transactions you will occasionally get asked for the PIN as well.

From experience, card issuers (including Barclays) tend to be OK about refunding your money as long as it's reasonably soon after the loss, i.e. keep a regular check on whether you have your cards and your bank a/c transaction and you will be fine.

[tigersaw]

Are you talking about the new 'contactless' payment, where you just swipe your card on a terminal in the shop and they take the money from your account?

If so, sorry bud but it's here to stay, and all the banks, shops, etc will have it in the next few years. It's actually the payment companies such as Visa, Mastercard and AmEx who are behind the technology - Barclays just happens to be the main player who's using it at the moment.

There are two main features to protect your account if your card is stolen without you realising and cancelling it - there's a limit to what can be deducted without entering a PIN (it was £10 but is now/will shortly be moving to £15), and also for lower transactions you will occasionally get asked for the PIN as well.

From experience, card issuers (including Barclays) tend to be OK about refunding your money as long as it's reasonably soon after the loss, i.e. keep a regular check on whether you have your cards and your bank a/c transaction and you will be fine.


Yes, I'm talking about contactless technology.
After the (lack of) reassurance from the telephone support yesterday, I'm going to the branch to request having the feature removed from my account. If they cant oblige then I'll be looking to the other banks to see what their intentions are.
I'm not happy with the generalisation that you'll be ok so long as you keep a close eye on your account and inform the bank as soon as you notice any anomalies. The banks should be working to make me feel more secure, not making me feel uncomfortabe.

Little bit of research overnight - plenty of anecdotal evidence of people paying for other peoples items merely by being close to the reader whilst in the queue, and evidence that the Barclays RFID card renders an Oyser card inoperative if kept in the same wallet. (Hence their attempts to combine the two).

[the_lone_wolf]

http://listverse.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/microwave.cooking.jpg

30seconds on a medium setting should do it...

[SoulKiss]

Rumour has it that due to the fact the RFID chip data is unencrypted, and that battery-powered RFID scanners are cheap and readily available :)

Oh look, it might be more than a rumour :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmajlKJlT3U

[tigersaw]

30seconds on a medium setting should do it...

Even 5 seconds, but that would destroy the visible chip/pin as well.

Might xray it at work next week out of curiosity, see if the antenna can be seen, then a simple hole drilled in the card or strike with a hammer should render it harmless.

[Fizzy Fish]

Yes, I'm talking about contactless technology.
After the (lack of) reassurance from the telephone support yesterday, I'm going to the branch to request having the feature removed from my account. If they cant oblige then I'll be looking to the other banks to see what their intentions are.
I'm not happy with the generalisation that you'll be ok so long as you keep a close eye on your account and inform the bank as soon as you notice any anomalies. The banks should be working to make me feel more secure, not making me feel uncomfortabe.

Yeah I'm not 100% convinced about it either TBH. I can see the benefits for quick low-value payment items such as coffee/newspapers, but it never takes the fraudsters long to figure out how to cheat the system - as SK has demonstrated!!


Little bit of research overnight - plenty of anecdotal evidence of people paying for other peoples items merely by being close to the reader whilst in the queue, and evidence that the Barclays RFID card renders an Oyser card inoperative if kept in the same wallet. (Hence their attempts to combine the two).

I'd be surprised if that really is the case, as Oyster uses a slightly different technology and isn't usually affected by payment cards. The Barclaycard/Oyster tie up is purely a marketing thing to try and eek out a commercial advantage from their early take-up of the technology.

That said the Transport for London readers will accept contactless payment in the near future, and some are already enabled, so I'd be interested to know if it's causing problems. Can you send me the link?

PS. don't even start me on what I think about using contactless payment on public transport...

[G]

A division of the company I work for produced this technology.

Our Id cards work in any office in any country and you have to Put the currency of whichever country you are in on the card to buy lunch... I had £18 in my uk account and got back from a couple of weeks in Denmark and had -£1.20... No explanation lol.

I would hate the thought of my bank account being on one of these cards.

[tigersaw]

. Can you send me the link?



It was from reading countless pages on theregister.co.uk , so cant find it again easily, but the comments here:
http://districtdave.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=14221&page=1#243238
are typical of what I was reading

[SoulKiss]

Yeah I'm not 100% convinced about it either TBH. I can see the benefits for quick low-value payment items such as coffee/newspapers, but it never takes the fraudsters long to figure out how to cheat the system - as SK has demonstrated!!




I'd be surprised if that really is the case, as Oyster uses a slightly different technology and isn't usually affected by payment cards. The Barclaycard/Oyster tie up is purely a marketing thing to try and eek out a commercial advantage from their early take-up of the technology.

That said the Transport for London readers will accept contactless payment in the near future, and some are already enabled, so I'd be interested to know if it's causing problems. Can you send me the link?

PS. don't even start me on what I think about using contactless payment on public transport...

Yeah, cos TfL really did their homework (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/7655292.stm) with the Oyster Card RFID chip supplier....

[Fizzy Fish]

It was from reading countless pages on theregister.co.uk , so cant find it again easily, but the comments here:
http://districtdave.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=14221&page=1#243238
are typical of what I was reading

Thanks, I was wandering whether it was something I hadn't come across, but it sounds like it might be the 'card collision' issue, where the reader doesn't know which card to use so it defaults to not working until you separate them and just touch one on the reader. This is going to happen a lot in the future when its rolled out to public transport and more cards are issued.

It shouldn't actually stop the Oyster card from working per se, just not when it's next to something else with the RFID chip

Yeah, cos TfL really did their homework (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/7655292.stm) with the Oyster Card RFID chip supplier....

Yeah don't even start me, I have to deal with this system every day! I'm in the unenviable position of having no say in how the contracts/technology are set up, but having to somehow make it work and explain it to the general populace... :smt013

Thank heavens I only have 4 weeks left then it's someone else's problem for a year or so :D