View Full Version : Whats the worst that could happen? Warming up.
Jimmy2Feet
18-10-10, 08:28 AM
Hi guys & gals,
I am starting to get a little worried with the lack of time i have to let my bike warm up in the mornings now that it is starting to get a little colder.
at best it is only a couple of minute's.
What is the worst that could happen if i carry on like this?
Should i start getting up 5 mins earlier in the morning?
just to add, i take a very gentle ride to work because of this, and it is not all that far, only a couple of miles. also no fast roads, all B-roads and minor A roads. no no0p major acceleration or anything like that.
fizzwheel
18-10-10, 08:32 AM
Search theres plenty of threads on this.
Theres a school of thought that you shouldnt let your bike idle execessively on a cold day. Just run it long enough so that it idles properly or that it will idle without the choke, then ride off gently and dont rev it hard till its fully up to operating temperature.
Sid Squid wrote something eloquent a while ago, his opinion is one I'd trust.
I tend to start mine, put my gloves and lid on and then off I go.
Jimmy2Feet
18-10-10, 08:45 AM
Search theres plenty of threads on this.
Theres a school of thought that you shouldnt let your bike idle execessively on a cold day. Just run it long enough so that it idles properly or that it will idle without the choke, then ride off gently and dont rev it hard till its fully up to operating temperature.
Sid Squid wrote something eloquent a while ago, his opinion is one I'd trust.
I tend to start mine, put my gloves and lid on and then off I go.
I assumed there would be something already posted, but i had a little search but to no prevail!
That is exactly what i am doing now, wait till i can let the choke out fully, whilst getting gear on and off i go.
And i don't blast it at all on the ride to work as not the opportunity, and the bike defo doesn't have time to warm up fully on the ride. As long as i am not doing damage that is the main thing. I will have another search for Sid's post.
Cheers Fizz
minimorecambe
18-10-10, 09:11 AM
Not a great idea when you set off to work in the early hours of the morning though!
warrenhewitt10
18-10-10, 09:19 AM
as fizz says just warm it up enough to let it idle without the choke, then take it easy, im sure it wont damage it.
..........wouldnt listen to matt yokes on this one tho if im honest :)
minimorecambe
18-10-10, 09:41 AM
For christ sake!!!!!! Get a grip.
No one said they sat at traffic lights blipping the throttle.
Why bring your ramblings about another thread into this one???!
Don't bother with him MM,
http://www.sniffpetrol.com/wp-content/uploads/ferraritoys.jpg
minimorecambe
18-10-10, 09:45 AM
Seems like that is all he is capable of doing
fizzwheel
18-10-10, 09:57 AM
Sorry i thought this forum was just about winding people up, its fun isnt it!
No its not.
Matt, I am watching you at the moment, you are already on thin ice with me and the rest of the admin / mods. I would suggest that you take some time to reflect on whats happened in the last week, before posting any further comments such as the ones you have made in this thread.
I thought we were all done and dusted on the advertising issue, if you have an axe to grind still can I suggest that you PM me and we can try and sort it out.
On topic,
I am with Fizz on this one - fire up the bike, wait until the idle has settled down, which on my pointy is usually the time it takes me to get my garage door down and locked and my lid and gloves on.
Although I pull out onto a street with a school directly opposite, so the few hundred yards going slowly past that might also help :)
So the few hundred yards going slowly past that might also help :)
Which is also a good opportunity to warm up your tires a bit, at least as important if not more than warming up the engine.
definitely!
Damp mornings and cold tyres make for damp underwear ...
Biker Biggles
18-10-10, 10:56 AM
I never warm it up,just ride off as soon as it will run.As said that means ride off gently and smoothly so as to warm up the tyres and everything else before giving it any beans.
The theory behind this is that the best way to protect an engine from cold wear is to warm it up as quickly as possible without putting under much load.Tickover puts it under no load so takes ages to warm up.Riding gently puts it under slight load thus warming it up quickly.Thrashing the blux off it from cold might warm it up quick but does a lot of wear in the process.
I think I can remember Sid's reply almost verbatim (it stuck in my mind as an apt and pithy phrase and as i trust his judgement when it comes to things mechanical I filed it away for future use)
"Warming up - all loss and no gain"
all loss and no gain?
I take it Sir Squid meant that sitting there with it ticking over for 20 minutes is pointless? I'd agree with that - I think I probably fall into the biggles camp myself!
My bike is stored in a rented council garage, I'd worry about the noise except there's a little rat of a terrier that does his nut every time I walk down to get my bike! At least the neighbours can have a go at the dog owner rather than my (quite) noisy bike :)
My bike is kept in the house so it's always warm to begin with, i generally fire it up with no choke, and then ride of nice and steady as to not annoy the neighbours.
yorkie_chris
18-10-10, 11:37 AM
Sorry i thought this forum was just about winding people up, its fun isnt it!
Only when you make a decent job of it!
yorkie_chris
18-10-10, 11:41 AM
The only warm up the bike needs is so it will run happily. On a healthy carby SV that's probably 10 seconds or less. On a pointy just wait until the auto fast idle has started to back off and ride :)
Then I would probably allow 5 miles or so to allow everything to warm up nicely, does double duty of warming your tyres too.
But, as said there is no point warming it up for ages.
So Matt, 7 posts in this thread. Business slow?
Business slow?
I feel a search coming on...
did someone leave the tw@ flap open?
SoulKiss
18-10-10, 12:19 PM
*wonders how many people on here are also on gixxerjunkies, londonbikers, and other uk forums who are spreading the word to "come look at the idiot who doesnt know when to stop digging"*
Back on thread, I must admit I don't let it idle most times I ride. I find that if you ride gently until it warms it's fine. Do watch the cold tyres at the moment though. Had 2 wobbles this week pulling away which surprised me!
Matt, Sir, you are an Ass .....
yorkie_chris
18-10-10, 12:58 PM
Back on thread, I must admit I don't let it idle most times I ride. I find that if you ride gently until it warms it's fine. Do watch the cold tyres at the moment though. Had 2 wobbles this week pulling away which surprised me!
Aye, smoothness is the order of the day
Jimmy2Feet
18-10-10, 02:52 PM
Wow!! i thought this thread was dead after fizz's post! that but am glad to see that everyone agrees with Fizz which is exactly what i am doing anyway so that good!
Amanda i know exactly what you mean. Went for my first proper ride out since getting a bike again at the weekend, popped down the road to get some petrol and check tyre pressures etc, pulled out of garage and gave a little blip.....and i mean little i was not gunning it at all, back end spun up, and started sliding out!! not what i was expecting.....almost time to change underwear at only 9 in the morning, but a good reminder in how important warmth is in a tyre!!
You get lazy only driving a car for so long!
My favourite moment is when the back tyre slips on a wet manhole cover, that really gives the old ticker/pucker a workout :mrgreen:
Jimmy2Feet
18-10-10, 03:08 PM
Happened once, now I avoid manhole covers like the plague!!
matt_rehm_hext
18-10-10, 03:17 PM
My favourite moment is when the back tyre slips on a wet manhole cover, that really gives the old ticker/pucker a workout :mrgreen:
I had that happen a couple of times on this right turn near my house and in the wet, it's really hard to see on the road, was kinda fun!
I caught a patch of muddy runoff from the motorway central reservation the other week, same effect - massive powerslide (well, it probably lasted about 1/10th of a second, but it felt like an hour)
Wow!! i thought this thread was dead after fizz's post! that but am glad to see that everyone agrees with Fizz which is exactly what i am doing anyway so that good!
NO! Not everybody does agree with Fizz.
Sid squid for one, and YC for another and for what it's worth, me too!
The time it takes to put your gloves on is too long to leave your bike idling. Idling is just a waste of petrol and a waste of wear on your engine.
speedplay
18-10-10, 03:46 PM
I tend to start mine, put my gloves and lid on and then off I go.
+1.
Start, sit on bike and sort my gloves etc out and off I go.
Stuff
More stuff
Yet more stuff
Still full of shyte
http://www.sniffpetrol.com/wp-content/uploads/ferraritoys.jpg
Couldn't agree more.
Jimmy2Feet
18-10-10, 03:52 PM
NO! Not everybody does agree with Fizz.
Sid squid for one, and YC for another and for what it's worth, me too!
The time it takes to put your gloves on is too long to leave your bike idling. Idling is just a waste of petrol and a waste of wear on your engine.
How long does it take to put your gloves on?!? No offence meant by that at all, but i was concerned about not leaving it idling long enough! but letting the bike idle without the choke open at all, is a bare minimum surely, and to be honest i am ready to ride before i am able to close the choke fully with out the engine struggling!
Just goes to show each to there own i suppose, i have no intention (after reading this thread) of leaving the bike idle for 10 minute's before riding, and i am very glad of that fact! but i will defo be waiting to close the choke!
Jimmy2Feet
18-10-10, 03:54 PM
+1.
Start, sit on bike and sort my gloves etc out and off I go.
Couldn't agree more.
Having only recently come back to the org, am i missing something about/with Matt?
and also to take it easy on cold rubber...
speedplay
18-10-10, 04:04 PM
Having only recently come back to the org, am i missing something about/with Matt?
I think its the menopause...:rolleyes:
I think its the menopause...:rolleyes:
Or mid life crisis?? I think he needs a ruddy good banging to sort all that tension out, with his attitude I bet he's not getting much at home :smt008
speedplay
18-10-10, 04:10 PM
Or mid life crisis?? I think he needs a ruddy good banging to sort all that tension out, with his attitude I bet he's not getting much at home :smt008
http://www.made-in-england.org/images/probably-not-having-a-wank.jpg
Specialone
18-10-10, 04:33 PM
Just to quote my dealer who is purchased my sv from, idle it until its up to temperature (?) then ride away.
My sprint it probably has approx 1 min while im putting my lid on etc, but i do let my DRZ warm up more cos it cuts out a bit when moving if i dont, i can stop this by turning up idle revs a smidge, but when warm then it idles fast, albeit singles, im told, should be set fast anyway.
yorkie_chris
18-10-10, 04:34 PM
I think comparing putting your gloves on before or after starting the engine is splitting hairs TBH.
Specialone
18-10-10, 04:36 PM
Im sure there are pros and cons for doing both, but higher revs on a cold engine cant be good so i would rather idle it for 2 mins and burn a small amount of fuel to get it warmer than ride away cold and oil might not be circulating properly or whatever.
Each to their own, but i agree with Fizz so there :smt019
fizzwheel
18-10-10, 05:14 PM
Each to their own, but i agree with Fizz so there :smt019
Like I said, start bike, Lid on, gloves on ride off. Wait till bike will idle without the choke. Or wait till the ECU has taken the bike of fast idle and off you go. Taking it easy till the bike is fully up to operating temperature.
Doesnt matter if nobody agrees with me or not, its what I do. I never said it was technically or mechanically correct. Its just what I do.
speedplay
18-10-10, 05:15 PM
Ha ha, all you have missed is that reeder likes to dress up as :batman: and speedplay is a tool!
The main difference is though, we both admit it and go along with the banter without taking it all to heart ;)
Welcome to the adult world :D
Idling a cold engine for any significant length of time is not a good idea. The loads on the cams are highest at idle, this is when any lubricating films will break down more easily. Start it up and ride it gently and it will warm up more quickly. You can still ride a bike with the choke on you know.
Stonesie
18-10-10, 05:39 PM
Another reason to Not let the engine idle for ages is that on a cold start it will be running very rich and with the cold bores/pistons/rings and low cylinder pressures you can get bore wash, the excess un-burned petrol gets past the rings and washes the almost impossibly thin film of oil from the bores, that makes for massively increased ware.
That same petrol is now in your oil, not the best place for it because it brakes down the oils lubrication capability's.
I start it up
Put on helmet/gloves/close garage door
Ride gently for the first couple of miles until its upto temp.
Milky Bar Kid
18-10-10, 06:08 PM
I tend to start mine and then put helmet and gloves on, which takes about a minute and the head off, taking it gently. Bobs yer uncle.
As for Matt....where's the banning stick when we need it??
Batman works for me, grrrrrrrr.....
Mickey!! Pah that's for the kids x
steve.w
18-10-10, 06:31 PM
You can still ride a bike with the choke on you know.
+1 :thumleft: Just enough choke to keep 1000-1500 revs switch it off a little way up the road.
thedonal
18-10-10, 06:37 PM
I use a bit of choke now (partly cos I've got a seized idle screw so it's not idling as smooth as it could anyway)- get it to about 1500-2000 revs while I get the gloves on. Then roll it down to the road, wait for about, 30 secs, then off.
I have a slowish warm up ride anyway- 20mph zone and always stuck behind some ****! So less than 5k revs for about a mile, then drop the choke.
Though some days, I just start it and ride it!
seedy100
18-10-10, 07:13 PM
Right or wrong my procedure is:
1. Put keys in ignition
(I do this now because I got pee'd of getting my gloves on and leaving my keys in my trouser pocket)
2. Helmet on
3. Gloves on
4. Ignition on
5. Start
6. Into gear
7. Ride off
8. Complete approx 1 mile in 30 limit
9. NSL (GLF)
To my mind leaving the bike to idle
a) Wastes fuel
b) Makes unnecessary noise
c) Increases engine wear
d) Pollutes
But there are other opinions.
Biker Biggles
18-10-10, 07:39 PM
Right or wrong my procedure is:
1. Put keys in ignition
(I do this now because I got pee'd of getting my gloves on and leaving my keys in my trouser pocket)
2. Helmet on
3. Gloves on
4. Ignition on
5. Start
6. Into gear
7. Ride off
8. Complete approx 1 mile in 30 limit
9. NSL (GLF)
To my mind leaving the bike to idle
a) Wastes fuel
b) Makes unnecessary noise
c) Increases engine wear
d) Pollutes
But there are other opinions.
:cheers::winner:
cb1000rsteve
18-10-10, 08:09 PM
I've always just fired it up and set off. Never had any problems with any of my bikes including the 5000 miles i did on the sv. as i was only commuting i'd just keep to the speed limits which for me is 2 mile of 30 mph followed by 50 mph for another 2 mile. bike was usually warm by then (apart from when we had the minus 12 degrees earlier this year) and then i just rode normally the rest of the way to work
Sid Squid
18-10-10, 08:36 PM
I think I can remember Sid's reply almost verbatim (it stuck in my mind as an apt and pithy phrase and as i trust his judgement when it comes to things mechanical I filed it away for future use)
"Warming up - all loss and no gain"
I'm deeply flattered that anyone remembers a damn word I say, I'd like to thank my mum and... etc etc
Anyway, forgetting the acceptance speech just for a mo, this:
Do not warm up your bike before riding it, especially if it's new and being run in.
At tickover, (even when raised by choke), the oil pressure is low, the mixtures are rich which risks contaminating the oil, and the warming phase takes longer and does your engine no good. Get some revs on and ride it.
Warming up is all deficit, no benefit. Start it ride it. Take it easy 'til the motor is hot certainly, but don't let it warm on the stand.
I think comparing putting your gloves on before or after starting the engine is splitting hairs TBH.
Agreed.
I have a +120,000 mile motorcycle, owned by me from new and never 'warmed up', (or 'mistreated' as it's better known), this is not a freak, this is one of a number of higher mileage bikes I've owned, and because I know how they work, (and why they do too), I( can fully recommend the above info - don't 'warm up'.
It's all deficit and no benefit.
Get your leg over.
Hit start.
Select first.
Lifesaver.
Go go go.
If its a manual choke, watch out for surging as it warms up.
8099
ah, peace and quiet. thats better.
minimorecambe
19-10-10, 10:16 AM
8099
ah, peace and quiet. thats better.
:winner::stupid:
did somebody just say something?
Jayneflakes
19-10-10, 12:02 PM
By the time the temp gauge reads its lowest setting I am ready to pull away. Starts first time every time and it has a whopping 11000 miles on it! I think that it is on it's second ever rear tyre!
I love my bike and will do everything I can to ensure that it is kept in good order. This includes patting her every day and telling her what a good girl she is and wishing her a good night when she goes to bed in her nice little garage. :D
I have a +120,000 mile motorcycle, .
Will you swap for one with 49,000 miles? [-o<
Which glove do you put on first, your left or your right one :-) ?
Sid Squid
19-10-10, 01:15 PM
Will you swap for one with 49,000 miles? [-o<
Sure.
Oh wait... You mean your 49,000 mile bike?
Errr... I'm taking the fifth.
Get your leg over.
Hit start.
Select first.
Lifesaver.
Go go go.
If its a manual choke, watch out for surging as it warms up.In the front garden! Whos gonna be there, a spider :lol:
minimorecambe
19-10-10, 01:25 PM
In the front garden! Whos gonna be there, a spider :lol:
Now now Viney we dont want squashed bugs - especially if they had right of way! :p
benji106
19-10-10, 01:31 PM
Start the bike, with choke if neccasary
ride off taking it easy because there is a school about 5 doors down from my house
take the choke off when I get to the exit of the crescent (if not before)
Go for it
Crap myself as the back end slips out round a corner
wait for tires to warm up
Go for it.
Like all the others say, leaving an engine idling from a cold start isn't good for it, start, let it settle for maybe 30sec so the afterstart fuelling or choke can be reduced and then ride off gently.
Just for interest, I measured the oil temp (filter can) after a cold start on my curvey.
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh268/Hi-vis/SV650oiltemp2.jpg
This is a cold start (15C), a couple of miles in 30/40, then a few miles in a 50 limit, then 60, and finally a short stretch at 70 on a dual carriageway. Basically it takes quite a long while to reach 60C, which is what I would consider to be the minimum temp to be properly warm. Oil needs to reach at least 80C to keep clean of water.
It gives you an idea of how quickly (or not) and engine warms up anyway.
Davadvice
21-10-10, 03:11 PM
am i totaly missing somthing here, (i never read the whole thread)
Those people that have a car what do you do in a cold morning ?
why should a bike be any differeent? it is after all an internal combustion engine as well.
speedplay
21-10-10, 03:25 PM
Those people that have a car what do you do in a cold morning ?
why should a bike be any differeent?.
Get in, start engine, put on helmet and gloves....;)
MattCollins
22-10-10, 01:44 PM
I never warm it up,just ride off as soon as it will run.As said that means ride off gently and smoothly so as to warm up the tyres and everything else before giving it any beans.
The theory behind this is that the best way to protect an engine from cold wear is to warm it up as quickly as possible without putting under much load.Tickover puts it under no load so takes ages to warm up.Riding gently puts it under slight load thus warming it up quickly.Thrashing the blux off it from cold might warm it up quick but does a lot of wear in the process.
Ditto...
I'll add that it gets long enough to bring the oil up properly. It can take a while on a cold morning.
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