A bunch of lovely car problems...

[warrenhewitt10]

Just picked up a 2002 fiat punto 1.2 Mia last night, was assured by the seller it was in perfect working condition, drove it home, no knocks or rattles to speak of... However I'm going to run all of this by you knowledgable people to get some input.

Brakes- work fine, but front right has a tapping and scraping sound coming from it under had braking, I'm thinking done pads possibly

Engine- well...... Starts fine, idle is very low and rough, will be adjusted soon, I wouldn't be concerned if it was just low, but it's slightly jumpy also. At low speeds, engine is very juddery, and at costant speeds it is definitely still there but not as noticeable. Possibly coils/and or ht leads replacing.

And newly today a water sloshing sound and whining when revving. Not sure what this is, presumably air has gotten in somewhere.

Water pump(......yes hmmmm) has been decency replaced, as with oil filter and oil. I am told the head gasket was changed a few months back and no apparent leak from around it. Will be checked for cream cheese later.

Only 55k on the clock, I'm not too impressed and think the guy will be getting a phone call later about it.

This was typed on an iPhone so I apologise in advance for seamingly random words in the middle of sentences...

And ideas would be helpful

Cheers

[punyXpress]

" A cheap car for the walnut faced Italian peasantry " ;)
Best of luck with it.

[warrenhewitt10]

Yes I know, thanks for the luck, with a start like this I'd say I could probably need it!

[454697819]

they have these quirks..

check the water level it likes to be full to avoid the sloshing..

[Mr Speirs]

Water sloshing thing I would hazard a guess is the air con water being too low. Had this on my car too, just topped it up n it stopped. Worth a check.

Although with that amount of problems I'd just take it back.

[Bibio]

i hope you have a friend called Tony.

[Biker Biggles]

Private sale?
I hope it was dirt cheap.

[collis]

Just picked up a 2002 fiat punto 1.2 Mia last night, was assured by the seller it was in perfect working condition, drove it home, no knocks or rattles to speak of... However I'm going to run all of this by you knowledgable people to get some input.
I used to own one of these, same year, in Silver.
Accidently put a dent in the o/s rear panel.
If you have the same dent, check the reg does not end in AHY and be registered originally in Hampshire.

Brakes- work fine, but front right has a tapping and scraping sound coming from it under had braking, I'm thinking done pads possibly
I would agree, possibly the break pads need changing.

Engine- well...... Starts fine, idle is very low and rough, will be adjusted soon, I wouldn't be concerned if it was just low, but it's slightly jumpy also. At low speeds, engine is very juddery, and at costant speeds it is definitely still there but not as noticeable. Possibly coils/and or ht leads replacing.
Sounds like the air filter is clogged to hell, give it a clean out and see how it all is, also check the fuel, poor quality fuel can make the enginge drive really rough.

And newly today a water sloshing sound and whining when revving. Not sure what this is, presumably air has gotten in somewhere.
The water sloshing could be the fuel lines, they run just below the drivers seat and you can often hear the fuel runnign from one end to the other of the car, nothing to worry about jsut means that it's working and your running low on fuel.

Water pump(......yes hmmmm) has been decency replaced, as with oil filter and oil. I am told the head gasket was changed a few months back and no apparent leak from around it. Will be checked for cream cheese later.
Head Gasket replaced? Why?
in the time I had mine I NEVER replaced the HG as it didnt need it, if memory serves (which recently it hasnt) the HG should not need changing till around 80k

What kind of person did you buy it from?
A boy racer may not have been very kind to the engine and thus will have ragged it meaning it'll need to TLC to keep nice and smooth.
Find out when the battery was last changed if you can, when they die they just die and there is no warning.
You can get them charged to bring some life back but otherwise they will just leave you stranded untill someone give you a jump.

I used to get around 45MPG out of mine on a general trip through traffic into and out of town daily.
and the speed limiter is easily broken, I managed to break mine when headding down the M5 round Birmingham at 92 it then crept up to 110mph and the speed limiter never worked afterwards, infact the car ran much better with a more nippy engine.

HTH

[timwilky]

Head Gasket replaced? Why?
in the time I had mine I NEVER replaced the HG as it didnt need it, if memory serves (which recently it hasnt) the HG should not need changing till around 80k


OK, It is a very long time since I worked on an cars/truck engines. But change head gasket because of age or miles, never. You change the head gasket because you have lifted the head for some reason. I see no other reason to change a gasket.

[davepreston]

what part of my punto is a peice of carp didnt you understand when you were at mine
and if you paid more than £400 for it you'll get a slap

[benji106]

OK, It is a very long time since I worked on an cars/truck engines. But change head gasket because of age or miles, never. You change the head gasket because you have lifted the head for some reason. I see no other reason to change a gasket.

+1, unless its leaking obviously.

[jimmy4237]

You should only have to change the head gasket if:
1. Its drinking water like hell
2. You see blue reek coming out of the exhaust

If at 55k miles the head gasket has been changed, then the previous owner has been a bit of an ape behind the wheel, ragging the car to very high revs, and melted the cylinder head or head gasket.

Or its possible that the timing belt has been changed, and a monkey of a mechanic has put the belt on without putting the engine timing to TDC, so when you start the engine - BOOM goes the valves knocking on the pistons, and the cylinder head needs replaced.. along with a new gasket...

Water pumps are fickle things - they either last a lifetime, or they don't. My '55 plate Saab destroyed itself at 63K miles. The thing was siezed solid... and stripped the timing belt. Then the idiot junior apprentice mechanics??? at Arnold Clark didn't put the engine to TDC when changing the belt and pump (under warranty...), and BOOM went half my valves and other bits.... thank god for a warranty, cos it cost them the best part of £1000 in parts alone:smt104:smt104 freaking idiots...

And they want me to bring the car back to them for servicing (at £60 per hour):smt051:smt051:smt019:smt019 and its MOT..... I don't think so... will be doing it myself from now on, and my pal runs an MOT station, so guess who's getting the MOT work...

[husky03]

i feckin hate these cars -the mrs bought one new and we had nowt but trouble with it, but to address your probs-

the brakes-had that-well known for these to rust up after even one days use-solution -change discs and pads-about 30 quid from ebay

The poor running-had that-change the leads-there crap

The sloshing-had that and it can be major-you have air trapped in the cooling system-you need to bleed the system-theres two bleed valves on the punto-one on the right hand side very near the rad, and the other is near the bulkhead in the centre-its a black circular thing on the coolant hose-i filled the rad up, attached a hose(sv rad hose fits air tight inside) to the opening and blew into the system while opening the bleed valves(its fecking a pain) and expelling the air-you need to do this until you have no more sloshing-the worry is how long this has been going on as according to the owners club it CAN lead to headgasket need redone.

these cars are $hit and the italians should be shot for making them-i wouldn't take one for free i hate them that much.
if you go to the fiat owners club there's a forum there for retards who still own one-they'll be able to point you in the right direction as they will all have had issues with the devils automobile.

[warrenhewitt10]

the head gasket is fine, was only just replaced, and yes I paid more than £400 for it, cars over the pond are much cheaper than here dave, if you want one that works (...ish in my case) then it costs a bit more :(

It doesnt have air con.....and all fluid levels have been checked and are fine.

Was on the phone with the guy, was private sale, hes gonna take it back and have it checked over, to no cost for me, seems like a fairly sound guy.

And yes Im contemplating just asking for my money back for it, I thought it would be nice for those cold winter mornings, but if its going to be a money pit I can survive being a bit cold on the bike. cost me a grand to insure the dam thing.

No overheating, coolant is all still there after 70 miles, and no blue coming out the exhaust. From talking to him id say theres a good chance he will replace the coils and give me new brake pads.

And i do have a friend called tony actually, dont think he would be of much help to me here though!

The air filter is brand new, had it all apart tonight, however one of the lugs that it screws onto has no threads, and was meaning the air box was sitting on top of rather than securely fastened to the intake. This was fixed with a cable tie, but its still not the best seal, so possible air leak going on there.

hopefully this guy sticks to his word...... its mirrors are crap too

[warrenhewitt10]

i feckin hate these cars -the mrs bought one new and we had nowt but trouble with it, but to address your probs-

the brakes-had that-well known for these to rust up after even one days use-solution -change discs and pads-about 30 quid from ebay

The poor running-had that-change the leads-there crap

The sloshing-had that and it can be major-you have air trapped in the cooling system-you need to bleed the system-theres two bleed valves on the punto-one on the right hand side very near the rad, and the other is near the bulkhead in the centre-its a black circular thing on the coolant hose-i filled the rad up, attached a hose(sv rad hose fits air tight inside) to the opening and blew into the system while opening the bleed valves(its fecking a pain) and expelling the air-you need to do this until you have no more sloshing-the worry is how long this has been going on as according to the owners club it CAN lead to headgasket need redone.

these cars are $hit and the italians should be shot for making them-i wouldn't take one for free i hate them that much.
if you go to the fiat owners club there's a forum there for retards who still own one-they'll be able to point you in the right direction as they will all have had issues with the devils automobile.


yes this seems to be the general thoughts on these cars, reason I wanted one is because my dad had an older one for a few years and it was grand, and i like the look of the 2002 one in comparison to all of the other tat around then for this price.

ask for my money back is the general advice from the forum then?

[husky03]

money back and a kick of his sack-the old ones were ok , these ones are pish-the sloshing thing really concerns me-they overheat when this happens and the headgasket does go-seems too much of a coincidence that the gasket has already been replaced -money back or he's needing his knees done.

[maviczap]

Head Gasket replaced? Why?
in the time I had mine I NEVER replaced the HG as it didnt need it, if memory serves (which recently it hasnt) the HG should not need changing till around 80k

Mate at work had the head gasket go on his Punto, which the mechanic said they are prone to.

Same as my 8 valve Cavalier, head gasket went on that, mechanic said they were also prone to that.

Milage is not always a good indication, as it would be better to know how many hours the engine had run for

[husky03]

spot the difference?????
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee254/vekyman1/01092009623.jpg

http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr197/stacytate/IMG_1855.jpg

[warrenhewitt10]

Im gonna take it to work again 2morrow, see if theres any rivers running through my dashboard and the likes, if there is, and I find more wrong with it, Ill ring him and see what his reaction to me asking for my money back is, or even if i let him keep say £100 for the hastle, as in the long run it will save me alot more.

its just one of those things, some people online have no complaints about them, others hate them with a passion, same as the bikes really, i read about all the people online here with problems, and my bike hasnt given me any real trouble and its down 30,000 miles now.

Maybe its to balance out the ratio....what i gain in bike reliability I loose in the car.....

[warrenhewitt10]

spot the difference?????
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee254/vekyman1/01092009623.jpg

http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr197/stacytate/IMG_1855.jpg

I can actually, the car in the bottom one is brown rather than black

[husky03]

I can actually, the car in the bottom one is brown rather than black


lol:-D

you should be able to hear the sloshing around when you rev the car at a standstill-also squeeze the bottom of the black tubes that allow the water to drain from the bulkhead-they get clogged with leaves and other sheet.

[maviczap]

lol:-D

you should be able to hear the sloshing around when you rev the car at a standstill-also squeeze the bottom of the black tubes that allow the water to drain from the bulkhead-they get clogged with leaves and other sheet.
+1 I had this happen on my Cav, got to the point where the water came into the car via the heating ducts which were supplied by the fan situated in the bulkhead

[warrenhewitt10]

right, got the car back, new coils, ht leads and spark plugs, and still it is still jumpy and doesnt idle smoothly, so any ideas what else im looking at for this?

And also the river installed in the dash is supposably nothing to worry about, not to sure i want to belive him on that one....

oh and its doing about 35-40mpg, which isnt great for a car that has a combined of 49

[davepreston]

mate if its so much hastle already take it back and look for something else, thats just my opinion but tbh i think it will be more hastle that is worth in future

[warrenhewitt10]

im gonna give it one more chance, will get it arranged to go to a mechanic on wed afternoon, if it comes back with any serious problems its going back.

Just wondering, if a car was running off a cylinder, would it be very noticeable if it was just running on 3?

[husky03]

Warren i'm telling you mate the sloshing is serious-

http://www.fiatforum.com/punto/131103-bubbling-noise.html

http://www.fiatforum.com/punto/137534-bubbling-noise.html

get rid mate -its jonah'd

[warrenhewitt10]

ah that wasnt a great read...... I would like to get rid of it, but the thing thats stopping me is that there is only so many rubbish cars you can look at on gumtree.... before it starts killing you inside.

The water sounds are getting quieter, ill say that, didnt notice them really at all today, but the jumping is very much still there. If it comes back on wed with any serious problems its going back with no hesitation.

Serves me right for buying cars from shifty characters...

[husky03]

the jumping was on the wifes after about 200 miles from new-ended up with the clutch and fly wheel getting replaced at last count 3 times-got rid once it was out of warranty-cut your loses mate

[warrenhewitt10]

right, id say im gonna have a word with him tomorrow about giving it back, I have 14 days to cancel my insurance and it only costs £22, whereas its a few hundred to cancel after that time.

I specifically asked him before he sold the car if it was in perfect working order and he said it was. Is there anything here that I can hold him to legally for selling me a car that really isn't in "working order" if he decides he doesn't want the car back?

[husky03]

not fit for purpose me thinks

[svrich]

If it was a private sale then it would be very difficult to hold him to anything. If he was a nice guy he could take it back but he could easily say it was working prffectly well when you drove it away. It's a horrible situation to be in. I hope it gets sorted for you.

[yorkie_chris]

OK, It is a very long time since I worked on an cars/truck engines. But change head gasket because of age or miles, never. You change the head gasket because you have lifted the head for some reason. I see no other reason to change a gasket.

Because it's an eye-talian POS that's leaking possible :-P

[yorkie_chris]

right, id say im gonna have a word with him tomorrow about giving it back, I have 14 days to cancel my insurance and it only costs £22, whereas its a few hundred to cancel after that time.

I specifically asked him before he sold the car if it was in perfect working order and he said it was. Is there anything here that I can hold him to legally for selling me a car that really isn't in "working order" if he decides he doesn't want the car back?

No, you're screwed if he doesn't want it back unless it's some sort of dealer. If private you've got no chance and you should've driven the thing before you bought it!!

I know it's hard looking at cheap cars... but buy a reliable one and take the time to learn what the issues are with them and all of a sudden it's easy.

Best cheap sh*tbox motors I used to see a lot of being driven very badly with little to no maintenance and few issues... 205 diesels.

[Lozzo]

right, id say im gonna have a word with him tomorrow about giving it back, I have 14 days to cancel my insurance and it only costs £22, whereas its a few hundred to cancel after that time.

I specifically asked him before he sold the car if it was in perfect working order and he said it was. Is there anything here that I can hold him to legally for selling me a car that really isn't in "working order" if he decides he doesn't want the car back?

If it was a private sale the only way you stand any chance of getting anything back out of him is if his receipt does not include words to the effect of "Sold as seen with no warranty given or implied by the seller". You'll have to take him to County Court though.

If the guy is a trader or dealer then he cannot sell you a duff car, full stop. There is no such thing as a trade sale with no come-backs, no matter how cheap they sell the car for. You always have a warranty of sorts in as much as the car must be fit for purpose. If you've asked him if it's in perfect running order and he said yes, then he has no defence. Call Trading Standards and explain your siuation to them, they'll log your call and issue an incident number - then back the car to him with a bill for the work you've had done and see what happens. If he refuses to pay then mention that you've already been in contact with the Trading Standards people and had the call logged and then ask him politely if he'd like to reconsider. If he still refuses then take the b'stard to the County Court.

[svtomo]

not properly read all the posts here but from what i have read it sounds suspiciously like head gasket/ warped cylinder head. it is a very common fault on these cars im afraid (did two last week!)
if when the head gasket went wrong before the engine overheated there is a good chance the head warped and should have been skimmed before being refitted, unfortunately not all garages do this and so the problem returns. the mating surfaces are also prone to pitting around the bores on these engines which also prevents the gasket sealing, and with the sloshing sound there is air in the cooling system which often is the air from the cylinders being forced into the cooling system.
a quick check you can do yourself is to bleed the cooling system, put the coolant bottle cap back on and run the engine for a minute, then remove the bottle cap and see if you get wet! there should be hardly any pressure, maybe a slight hiss but nothing more.
btw different engines have different symptoms with this kind of fault so dont expect any oil in the coolant/ visa versa.

[Viney]

right, got the car back, new coils, ht leads and spark plugs, and still it is still jumpy and doesnt idle smoothly, so any ideas what else im looking at for this?Warped head is a strong possibility to me. Hwy would a head gasket be replaced on a 55k car? The head could also be cracked. Just take it back, if you can, get your money back and walk away quickly. Get yourself a Fiesta and stay away from anything Italian.

[timwilky]

Head Gasket replaced? Why?
in the time I had mine I NEVER replaced the HG as it didnt need it, if memory serves (which recently it hasnt) the HG should not need changing till around 80k
HTH

OK, It is a very long time since I worked on an cars/truck engines. But change head gasket because of age or miles, never. You change the head gasket because you have lifted the head for some reason. I see no other reason to change a gasket.

Because it's an eye-talian POS that's leaking possible :razz:

Chris, you are quoting me out of context mate. I said "You change the head gasket because you have lifted the head for some reason. I see no other reason to change a gasket". If you suspect the POS is leaking, then that is a reason to lift the head. You do not lift it because it has reached a mythical mileage.

[yorkie_chris]

Fair one, to be honest it was simply a cheap excuse to slag off the pasta breath Luigis of the world who make every car a Friday car...

[Dicky Ticker]

Fix
It
Again
Toni

Their cars and bikes are like Marmite:D