View Full Version : Car hunting - advice please
kellyjo
29-10-10, 10:48 AM
Hi guys,
Im off to look at 3 Vauxhall Astras this afternoon and I know less about cars than I do bikes, so not a lot then!!
They are all 2003 or 2004, 50k miles 1.6i 16v models, approx £2k
I've been researching cambelts and there seems to be very conflicting advice varying between replacing at 40k miles up to 100k, so i phoned a local vauxhall servicing centre who told me the recommended is 60k miles.
One of the traders said he has just replaced it on his motor, how can i check if he has no paperwork?
And what other things do i need to look for? Obviously I want to see some paperwork confirming mileage but what about brakes etc...
If they say they will service the vehicle what do I need to make sure they are going to do? Naturally I will expect at least 3 months warranty, but what should it cover to be of any value?
Sorry for all the daft questions, but I really appreciate any advice you can offer!
TIA, KJ xx
Used car market is an absolute minefield. I always considered myself to be reasonable bad apple spotter... but I have ended up with a couple of knackers. My most memorable being a 3 year old Laguna 1.9DCi, it had been in a massive shunt and had serious engine issues... none of which you could really see until you started using it properly.
It may be worth investing in getting any vehciles you are seriously interested in RAC inspected, even some of those are hit and miss though as it very much depends on the monkey which turns up.
Yea dont look at Astras
Had nothing but problems with my 2001 model including a new £600 quid ecu
There was something on watchdog the other week i think it was the H model if you tooted the horn the lights switched off, not 100% if i remember that correctly though cant quite remember how many were affected
kaivalagi
29-10-10, 11:03 AM
Got a good Megane 1.9DCi second hand, best going Diesel I think...and even the old Renaults were designed with good safety in mind, only the 1.9 though, the other sized diesels engines are not that good.
The Renault 1.9 DCI is notoriously a terrible terrible engine. All you have to do is google renault 1.9DCI.
kellyjo
29-10-10, 11:27 AM
The problem I have is that this car is being financed by the 'bank of mum' (thanks treasure :smt008) and shes been told by her partner that the most reliable cars and cheapest to maintain are Fords and Vauxhalls and definitely nothing french for whatever reason, so Im kind of limited because she now will be very reluctant to buy anything other.
If your getting petrol avoid the 1.8 engine, the 1.6 is miles better both for actual performance and MPG.
I've had the fortune to drive both the 1.8 and 1.6 and found the bigger engine sluggish to get going, where as the 1.6 was just power from the start.
Astra wouldn't be high on my list TBH.
Here is the J.D.Power customer satisfaction survey 2006 (http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/jd-power-survey-2007/small-family-cars/225557)which will cover the sort of age car you're looking at, typically then up to 3yrs old in 2006. Reading the brief decription for them, in fairness a lot of the issues seem to be with dealers and service, but that usually indicates problems which have not been resolved satisfactorily. Better to go for something with fewer inherent issues.
There are links on that site to earlier and later survey results, remember the J.D.Power survey is "satisfaction rating" from real owners, not journalists on a free jolly.
Civic would be my choice in that class (small family car), or a Honda Jazz if it's big enough for you (lot of space in a small car, ultra reliable)
http://www.whatcar.com/NonCar/8666102471.jpg
Japanese or German FTW
I agree that in that class a Honda Civic is where the smart money would go.
kellyjo
29-10-10, 11:41 AM
Why are there so many cars??!! Its doing my head in, and tbh I dont really care what it is, I just need to get the kids from A to B (which isnt usually more than 10 miles away) in relative safety and be fairly certain of getting there without the RACs help!
Thanks for your opinions guys x
kaivalagi
29-10-10, 11:52 AM
The Renault 1.9 DCI is notoriously a terrible terrible engine. All you have to do is google renault 1.9DCI.
The 1.9 DCi 120 is the good one, the other smaller sizes are the ones to steer clear of. Not had a problem and the car's now done 90K
Good luck KJ...
... I just need to get the kids from A to B (which isnt usually more than 10 miles away) in relative safety and be fairly certain of getting there without the RACs help!
Thanks for your opinions guys x
Have a hunt on Autotrader (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/) for a Honda Jazz reasonably local and try to at least have a look at one, they are a triumph of packaging, very roomy for a small category car, and as said almost totally reliable. Both my neighbours now have them ;) I reckon it would be perfect for what you want (note they are all 5 door, no 3 door versions).
I have a Yaris, but it is quite a lot smaller than a Jazz in practice. It might be enough for you and there are a lot more of them around at the £2k mark, so maybe worth considering. Both will be very low cost to run.
How many children do you have KJ
TBH i would steer clear of the Jazz, its too small, ok im 19 dont have kids, not married, live with parents etc etc but after being crammed into one twice a day for 5 days with the driver and 3 other people not that long ago im supprised it even moved, its just far too small, if you was an old retired lady who used it to pootle to the shops and back fine but as a kiddy wagon id say something Civic sized
Being a vauxhall fan myself, I would stear clear of the 1.8 units. Very ver thirsty.
Previous generation of 1.6 engines arn't too bad, but the Mk5 onwards is awful. The car is too heavy and too long a gear ratio. On a modern astra, the 1.4 is acutally better.
On the model your looking at, I think its the X16XEL (or similar) engine. Cirrc about 30-40mpg (town to motorway). The engines actually not bad, its just the weight on the newer ones has gone up so much.
Cambelts should be changed every 60k! Cambelt breaks = bent valves. Luckily a 2nd hand engine would cost about £300 anyway, so not too bad.
Parts are easy to get.
Get on www.astraownersnetwork.co.uk (http://www.astraownersnetwork.co.uk) for real life information and common faults.
fizzwheel
29-10-10, 01:12 PM
And what other things do i need to look for? Obviously I want to see some paperwork confirming mileage but what about brakes etc...
If you dont know, take somebody with you who does when you go to look at the car.
Renault Diesel, no thank you. As pointed out those 1.9dci engines have a god awful reputation.
Japanese or German would be my recommendation.
Apologies to Daimo but the current crop of Astra's I've driven that I had as hire cars were disgusting to drive. The newer Focus that I had was much nicer.
I dont think theres much to choose between Ford and Vauxhall TBH.
In the Focus / Astra sized market, I'd be looking at Neither and be looking for a Golf.
Nothing of it dude, I hate them as well.
What I meant was, the 1.4 unit is better than the 1.6 unit due to much shorter gearing. Much better about town as its more zippy. The extra length of the 1.6 box makes it extremly dull to drive, especially when coming from the top of the range VXR. (we had a 1.6 hire car for a bit, ruddy awful, that had to go back and we were given a 1.4, and that was just awful, not ruddy awful :lol: ). 1.9 cdti 150 is a good engine, just don't talk to me about m32 gearboxes :grrrrrrrrrrrr:
But with regards to the poster, only thing I know of is to check the servicing, check underneath for rot, and the usual under the bonnet for rust, under the rear boot carpet for repair damage etc.
As for Golfs, I can assure you they have JUST as many problems, and for that kinda money your looking at moon miles Mk4, or a lardy but usually fairly reliable, but dull as hell to drive Mk3.
tbh, i've got a similar budget for a car, and im loking at Lupo's and Polos 1.4 16v's,, although they are 3 door.
johnnyrod
29-10-10, 02:36 PM
As said above, and the JD Power numbers back it up, Fords and Vauxhalls may be cheap on parts, but that's the upside for needing so many of them. Jap cars are a bit more money but they tend to go wrong a lot less.
In the Focus / Astra sized market, I'd be looking at Neither and be looking for a Golf.
Yup or any VAG car really Seat, Audi, VW, Skoda, in the year i have my 03 Seat Leon (basicly a golf, same shell underneath, engine etc) ive had no issues *touches wood*
Wideboy
29-10-10, 05:24 PM
camblets should be changed any time up to 60K not left over, no way really of checking if its been done unless you start taking it apart as the camblet and pulleys are behind a plastic shield but you can check the auxiliary belt, if he has no paper work walk away its not worth the hassle trying to find out, most traders are liars to be fair
9 times out of ten used warranty's are bought in not provided by the trader (sort of like an insurance policy) and most of them aren't worth the paper they're written on as they'll worm their way out some how
things to look out for;
water pump bearings shot, will make a grinding knocking/sound that can be herd from inside the car aswell as out, common fault with vauxhalls
head gaskets, particularly on the small engine astra's, due to the cheap insurance for young people alot tend to buy them as they are fairly nippy compared to your average chav wagon..... easy to pick up on, there should be no oil or water on the block casing
the 1.7 diesels are utter crap, slow as feck and crap on fuel, im not even sure they still make that model?
other than that no major problems spring to mind, its a tool made to a budget not a drivers car which is commonly forgotten so most people slate them. Mines been brilliant, i have the 1.4 16v. relatively bullet proof for the miles and abuse I've thrown at it, fairly nippy as standard compared to other cars in its class, mines chipped so drinks abit but its about to roll over to 100k and is still nippy
shifter
29-10-10, 05:49 PM
I have an old X plate Astra 1.6i that Ive had for about 6 years. In that time I've had to change an EGR valve (£60 and five mins to fit) and a wiper motor (£30 from a breaker) I can't argue with that.
It also has no sign of any rust but then I waxoil it every year.
maviczap
29-10-10, 06:00 PM
After parting with my Cavalier of 14 years this week I am a Vauxhall fan, it did me proud, never let me down once in 14 years.
But a campervan has just joined our fleet and a failure at MOT time meant its gone to the great big recycling bin, as it was economic to get it back on the road.
However we have a newer Zafira, and the build quality is no where near as good as my old cav, so I wouldn't buy a new Vauxhall now. Plus the ones at work weren't great.
If you can't afford a Honda, Mazda or Toyota then the Ford Focus is a better bet
Wideboy
29-10-10, 06:06 PM
although ford have worked on their build quality they're still lacking quality control, the amount of returns and warranty claims they have is ridiculous
but agreed, another very happy vauxhall owner here aswell
speedplay
29-10-10, 06:10 PM
After parting with my Cavalier of 14 years this week I am a Vauxhall fan, it did me proud, never let me down once in 14 years.
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01213/Chavalier_1213551c.jpg
maviczap
29-10-10, 06:15 PM
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01213/Chavalier_1213551c.jpg
LOL :p
At least my Cav remained upright and on its 4 wheels :eye: Unlike a certain Freelander :eye:
speedplay
29-10-10, 06:18 PM
Im back to using a mondeo again.
It's the 3rd one now but have had other cars in between (ghia x 2.5 v6 and st220 were the last 2) Diesel this time though.
As said, its a gamble with second hand cars (but I refuse to lose as much as I did on the new st220 again).
I personally, hate french cars almost as much as I do the italian crap so that rules out some of the market.
Jap is usually the best and reliable, German is also very good but often end up costly when they do eventually go wrong.
Vauxhall are ok but I'd never rate them due to problems in the past but this could have been just down to the cars built in that time period.
Ford are generally pretty boring (they dont call them the dag dustbin for nothing) but you do know what your getting.
If you can get diesel, and want to get more for your fuel costs, then do it.
Im getting upto 60mpg on a long run and still getting 48mpg round town in Milton Keynes.
speedplay
29-10-10, 06:19 PM
At least my Cav remained upright and on its 4 wheels :eye: Unlike a certain Freelander :eye:
The problem there was the tit behind the wheel!
Stupid cow!
...I liked that car too :(
maviczap
29-10-10, 07:14 PM
The problem there was the tit behind the wheel!
Stupid cow!
...I liked that car too :(
Knew I'd get a rise out of you on that one, sorry Rob cheap shot :thumright:
I liked my Cav too, got £130 scrap for it mind :smt038
I have an old X plate Astra 1.6i that Ive had for about 6 years. In that time I've had to change an EGR valve (£60 and five mins to fit) and a wiper motor (£30 from a breaker) I can't argue with that.
It also has no sign of any rust but then I waxoil it every year.
OO yeah, good point.
EGR Valve and Idle control valves sometimes go too. ICV can usually be sorted with a cleanup and some WD40 though.
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01213/Chavalier_1213551c.jpg
Nahh, but a spot 4x4 turbo is much nicer
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j20/cgrextreme/Picture001-1.jpg
kellyjo
30-10-10, 07:37 PM
Well, i've been out shopping!! :-)
On Thursday I am picking up my 2002 Seat Leon 1.4s in speedy red and I'm really pleased!!
She's done 60k miles and is in really good condition, a few scratches around door handles and some small scuffs on the bumper but not bad at all for her age.
The garage is going to do major 60k mile service, cambelt and mot so she should be good to go for a while.
Just been on ebay to buy some black/red seat covers and mats to bling her up a bit :p
Thanks for your advice and comments xx
http://www.whatcar.com/NonCar/8666102471.jpg
Haha, my middle daughter has a 2003 Ford Ka, which ranks at No. 100 in that list. My BMW is joint 11th. Now I can properly rip it out of her rollerskate
maviczap
30-10-10, 07:53 PM
Well, i've been out shopping!! :-)
On Thursday I am picking up my 2002 Seat Leon 1.4s in speedy red and I'm really pleased!!
She's done 60k miles and is in really good condition, a few scratches around door handles and some small scuffs on the bumper but not bad at all for her age.
The garage is going to do major 60k mile service, cambelt and mot so she should be good to go for a while.
Just been on ebay to buy some black/red seat covers and mats to bling her up a bit :p
Thanks for your advice and comments xx
Well sounds like a good car and its a VW in Seat clothes, so thats ok too.
Did you pick it cos it was red, like your curvy :rolleyes:
Good choice Kellyjo :thumright:
Sir Trev
01-11-10, 01:41 PM
I'm always wary of these JD Power type surveys as I'm not convinced they take volume into consideration properly. Sure they may get more complaints about model x but is that because they sell so well? It may only be a very small percentage of the volume sold and the silent happy majority don't respond.
My 14 year old Cavalier was an excellent car until some numpty tried to drive *through* it one night. And my 51 plate 1.6 Astra is an excellent car - not fast or special but it's fine for the commute and general use. The engine spins up nicely and is better in a lot of ways than my three year old Mundaneo. I've not written Ford or Vauxhall off my possible future car list.
kellyjo
01-11-10, 03:25 PM
Well sounds like a good car and its a VW in Seat clothes, so thats ok too.
Did you pick it cos it was red, like your curvy :rolleyes:
Actually yes, it did remind me of my curvy :-)
Now I just need to pay back my mum for the car as a matter of urgency cos then I can get my new bike - hopefully a red sv1000s with black frame. I feel a pattern starting to form.....
OO yeah, good point.
EGR Valve and Idle control valves sometimes go too. ICV can usually be sorted with a cleanup and some WD40 though.
My Astra had (takes a deep breath)....oh sod it, it had EVERY thing that moved replaced, including Engine, box, etc etc. In the 5 years i had it, it cost a fortune. I would never buy another Vauxhall again.
The ICV was cleaned about once every 3k, and replced the breather filter every service.
Tom_the_great
01-11-10, 06:05 PM
well i just cant find a car anywhere ive been looking for a cheap cage for the winter but no there all just rubbish i mean i really dont care from corsa to passat i just want a sub 1k car to workhorse in the winter but there is nothing road worthy or that should be :( glad you found your car hun :)
...i just want a sub 1k car to workhorse in the winter ... :)
I'd be looking at a jelly mould Micra for that job, you should pick up a reasonably tidy example for £1k. There is very little that goes wrong with them, haven't even got a cambelt to worry about (chain). They are very easy to work on in the rare event something does need doing. Make sure it has power steering and some airbags (after N-M reg).
I dropped a random Yorkshire postcode into Autotrader (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/) and it came up with a hundred or so Micras withing 60mls of Huddersfield for under £1k, including a 30k mile T-reg example.
ChrisSV
01-11-10, 09:45 PM
My parents 'Y' reg astra has just hit 200K and nothing has gone wrong at all. I'm rather surprised.
Good cars are Toyota Corollas' nice and reliable and fairly fun to drive. Plus parts are pennies cause they sold in droves xD
Ya Seat sounds nice, enjoy (as much as a car can be enjoyed xD)
shifter
03-11-10, 10:50 AM
It seems to me that with the Astra the 1999-2004 ones are the ones to have. As I said before my x -plate one has done me for 5 years and cost me £90 in replacment parts in that time.
We had 3 of the newer ones at work however and they were always having problems.
The Basket
03-11-10, 11:26 AM
Car surveys are either filled in by old people or people with axe to grind.
I remember the RiDE surveys where an SV was directly in comparison to a R1. So that was fair! For some reason the R1 was considered 'better' than a SV.
There are breakdown and warranty surveys which seem better for comparison.
The days of German build quality are long gone. in independent surveys, they are not better than other Euro cars and sometimes worse. If you want relaibilty then either Korean or Jap as they seem to work out best.
My wife uses an 55 plate Astra 1.4 estate every day for work - 95 mile round trip - it takes us camping all over the country and apart from the odd blown bulb I've never had a problem with it. We got it as an ex-motability car (which had been neglected badly) with 30k on the clock, it now has nearly 94k on it.
I use the local garage to service it - main dealer here was hopeless and charged the earth, although we are told that the 100k service will be expensive (his idea of expensive is 2-300 quid though)
My only gripe with it is the paint seems to pick up a scratch if you stare at it for too long!
I'm not really into cars tbh, but it goes and stops when we want it to - what more can you ask :D
My Astra had (takes a deep breath)....oh sod it, it had EVERY thing that moved replaced, including Engine, box, etc etc. In the 5 years i had it, it cost a fortune. I would never buy another Vauxhall again.
The ICV was cleaned about once every 3k, and replced the breather filter every service.
You will get bad egg's with ANY car. You just were unlucky got a bad one unfortunatly.
Sir Trev
03-11-10, 12:31 PM
Car surveys are either filled in by old people or people with axe to grind.
My point exactly.
I won't labour the point, but the J.D.Power survey (http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/jd-power-survey-2010/the-league-tables/250115) is recognised by the automotive industry as a good representation of owner satisfaction and most manufacturers take notice of it. It is a measure of overall satisfaction, the whole deal, not just reliability.
It started off in the USA, I believe it was a follow on from the Ralph Nader "Lemon Law" business in the 70's.
I worked in the car industry and we certainly took notice of J.D.Power, and all the reliability ratings we used for our corporate vehicles and competitors stacked up pretty well against the J.D.P league tables.
Personally I tend to go predominantly by reliability when recommending models, I don't intend to go anywhere near marque dealerships so their performance doesn't interest me. It can be interesting however, for example Aygo is at the top of the citycar category whereas the Pug 107 is near the bottom, same car in essence but owners are not happy with Pug dealers being useless.
Bottom line is that few modern cars are really poor.
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