View Full Version : Track Day 'Racing'
Just a hypothetical debate really to pass the time...
Would you or the TD organisers have any issues if a few riders were going shoulder to shoulder and diving up the inside of each other etc while out on track. Previous conversation between friends who agree to a bit of competitive riding, they can duff each other up, but play it safe around others, so as not to rub 'innocent parties' up the wrong way.
What do you guys think? Thoughts etc? Too far? Acceptable?
Hope that made sense.
It's only hypothetical, i haven't done this before, just something that crossed my mind earlier this week...
No justification, unless you and your mates have exclusive use of the track. You will inevitably come across other track users during these friviolities and they won't want to be involved.
The TD organisers would have you black flagged within a lap.
If you want to race, go racing.
C
davepreston
09-11-10, 07:20 AM
try watching tony and berlin having a friendly trackday lol
never seen either of them "wined anyone else up" on route just went all road rash (lets see who gets that one) on eachother
davepreston
09-11-10, 07:21 AM
No justification, unless you and your mates have exclusive use of the track. You will inevitably come across other track users during threse friviolities and they won't want to be involved.
If you want to race, go racing.
C
mmmmmmm leeming
at one point i thought tony was rubbing your leg but he was actually using his clutch
I can assure you Dave, that's *nothing* compared to the proper race track. Times Leeming by 10 and Tony's just warming up! :)
There was no duffing up and block passes at Leeming. Just paddock wind up.
C
You reackon you would get black flagged? I have an issue (one of many :p ) i am heading to a track day at mallory on a sat rather soon ish.... i would go to the acu test days but cant get them off work... so im heading there on a sat with a very good (so much so he won the championship) rider so that we can do some training. This will kinda involve me chasing him down and trying to "race" him... you think i'l get in trouble?
yorkie_chris
09-11-10, 10:49 AM
No, you're just riding as fast as you can... which is the whole point of going to a trackday in the first place. Different to bashing each other out of the way!
What's next "you want to race each other... do it on the road!" :-P
But... what organisers say is "dangerous" riding will get you a slap on the wrist, probably if it is 2 of you having a bit of a dice you'll be fine... but if you start risking others by it, definite rollocking time. Depends on the marshalls on the day entirely
I'd be quite peeved if my track time was cut short because of it i.e. following an accident because of your fun and games.
I can't really see how what you propose would be possible without complications from other users. I've been hit and cut up on track before and I've never felt such rage. Spectators even heard me curse from insider helmet!
but surely if you are in the right group, you have the ability to deal with faster riders/riding?
UKPrincess
09-11-10, 12:07 PM
You reackon you would get black flagged? I have an issue (one of many :p ) i am heading to a track day at mallory on a sat rather soon ish.... i would go to the acu test days but cant get them off work... so im heading there on a sat with a very good (so much so he won the championship) rider so that we can do some training. This will kinda involve me chasing him down and trying to "race" him... you think i'l get in trouble?
See you there then
a note on the conversation, ACU Licence holders at every track day i have been to, we are told to behave, no racing, no duffing each other up or you will get black flagged and sent home, personally in the fast group this applies less, but in the other groups i have heard of people blacked flagged and warned (this would be me then).
i would agree with a previous comment, if you want to race, then go racing, track days are in the main to go fast, and have fun, i use them to try new things, and get some tuition when i bring a mentor, it works, it wouldnt work at an ACU test day.
Faster riders are faster riders. Morons who scrape alongside your bike or cut RIGHT in front because of their own lack of respect for other people are a completely different kettle of fish.
One member on here was hit by one of these cretins who actually ran over him. To add insult to injury his bike was fine and he wasn't injured.
Edit: this was in response to Rai's last post (not sure if his post was directed toward mine)
yorkie_chris
09-11-10, 12:15 PM
I'd be quite peeved if my track time was cut short because of it i.e. following an accident because of your fun and games.
Track sessions ending early because of peoples fun and games is a fact of life... when we did cadwell OPL it was pretty much 3 laps then a red flag for about an hour after dinner until all the nutters had fallen off!
Unfortunately very true. I remember doing Lydden when on the first session a streetfighter anodisaholic binned it at the only left hander spilling his oil everwhere which really took the edge off it.
UKPrincess
09-11-10, 12:20 PM
Faster riders are faster riders. Morons who scrape alongside your bike or cut RIGHT in front because of their own lack of respect for other people are a completely different kettle of fish.
Sounds like racing to me, and its an art, but agree not for track days
Joanne
Faster riders are faster riders. Morons who scrape alongside your bike or cut RIGHT in front because of their own lack of respect for other people are a completely different kettle of fish.
One member on here was hit by one of these cretins who actually ran over him. To add insult to injury his bike was fine and he wasn't injured.
Edit: this was in response to Rai's last post (not sure if his post was directed toward mine)
She :smt039:D
Morons are morons, whether they are racers or not. 90% of the time they arent racers and trying to be. And this is what usually ends sessions early. Not the racers on track
If you are a fast racer (not talking about me) then you will be use to picking a safe path thro back markers.. whether that is in a race or on a track day. The principle is the same. And you would get just as rollocked if you stood a back marker up in a race. EDIT: but all racers are taught track Etiquette, track day nuts arent
It does suck about your mate, and im not justifying it, but its kinda part of the risk when you are on a track
then of course there are the slow 'nutters' who put themselves in the fast group and get in the way of reasonable lines - self promoted wideboys with big bikes, lots of stickers on, clean leathers doing slow laps. Had many a protest from Ducati 1098 type riders who dont want to scratch their pride and joys and take exception to being overtaken by lower powered bikes. Trackdays are great fun for this..................:smt039
The rules for most track days state that you shouldnt pass going into a corner. This is to curtail ungentlemanly conduct. So no duffing up. You will get black flagged for making another rider change course. Acu test days are a step above track days but again youre not supposed to go mental. And in our club standing up a novice is not encouraged but certainly not a black flag offence. Its racing. You get duffed up whoever you are.
I have NEVER seen anyone get black flagged at a bike trackday... even complete and utter idiots.
Edit: That's a lie I saw one guy get black flagged for doing a beast of a wheelie for ages after the mountain at cadwell.
I've been hit and cut up on track before and I've never felt such rage. Spectators even heard me curse from insider helmet!
I remember that, he went in to hot, cut you up and you clipped his rear wheel... it was nuts.
Too right.
Sorry Rai. I stand adjusted.
So long as my trac ktime were not effected because they got over zealous and binned it, I wouldn't care. Saying that, I can't see me ever progressing from the novice group so probably no chance I would ever be on the same track at the same time as them.
Too right.
Sorry Rai. I stand adjusted.
its cool :kiss:
went all road rash (lets see who gets that one)
Best bike game ever
http://www.zonesega.com/file/covers/megadrive/Road%20Rash%203%20[EUR].jpg
yorkie_chris
09-11-10, 03:16 PM
I'd hope it went without saying that such a daft carry on would be in the fast group only.
Worst thing about track days seems to be people in novice or inters who should be in a higher group but aren't just because they want to pass people.
Two aquaintances got themselves banned - though it was a RC30 vs Honda RS125 - so you can imagine how all the passing was done. The 125 rider was youthful and it was a long time ago.
Not sure how possible it would be to stay in touch with each other where other people are involved. Still - what do I know?
I'd hope it went without saying that such a daft carry on would be in the fast group only.
Worst thing about track days seems to be people in novice or inters who should be in a higher group but aren't just because they want to pass people.
+1 but also people in the Advance group who really shouldnt be in there
Worst thing about track days seems to be people in novice or inters who should be in a higher group but aren't just because they want to pass people.
I don't think that is really the case... most people I know that are to quick for novices just doubt their own ability.
I'd hope it went without saying that such a daft carry on would be in the fast group only.
Worst thing about track days seems to be people in novice or inters who should be in a higher group but aren't just because they want to pass people.
Indeed. And something that puts a lot of people off doing more than one track day. Being whizzed past on the inside as your setting yourself up for a corner at a speed you probably wouldn't be doing if it were not a track is something to make you reconsider doing it again and quite possibly ruining the experience. And it's normally the ones that should be in a higher experience group doing it.
I can't really see how what you propose would be possible without complications from other users. I've been hit and cut up on track before and I've never felt such rage. Spectators even heard me curse from insider helmet!
If you know the guys you are riding with then you also know those who aren't with you and who aren't expecting you to pass them into a corner. These are the riders you give more space and are courteous to...
Thought this would be an edgy subject. I just want to point out that i'm not a nutter or chav *******. Just a guy whose interested in a debate... :D
lukemillar
09-11-10, 08:00 PM
If you know the guys you are riding with then you also know those who aren't with you and who aren't expecting you to pass them into a corner. These are the riders you give more space and are courteous to...
This wouldn't happen though. If you and your mate came up behind a slower rider and you mate gets past before the next corner whereas you didn't - you're telling me, you'd be happy to roll off, pass safely at the next opportunity while your mate disappears into the distance?
I have gone right off trackdays anyway. They had one as practice before our last race meet, so I went into the fast group (out of slow, med,fast,race) as I wanted to slow the place a bit and work on some superbike drills. The fast group was a joke! It was full of riders not willing to let themselves be passed, taking crazy lines, not holding their line and passing riders anywhere they could stick their bike! Eventually I got p!ssed off and moved up to race where there was this predictable serene calm and it was MUCH safer! (despite being a quicker pace)
Specialone
09-11-10, 08:13 PM
Indeed. And something that puts a lot of people off doing more than one track day. Being whizzed past on the inside as your setting yourself up for a corner at a speed you probably wouldn't be doing if it were not a track is something to make you reconsider doing it again and quite possibly ruining the experience. And it's normally the ones that should be in a higher experience group doing it.
Fully agree, its intimidating at first, for me it was anyhow.
Ego boosters, makes them feel special overtaking a noob, but tbh a lot werent that great at late braking or tight corners, i got overtook on the really fast corners by track bikes mainly, but im ok with that as i didnt wanna go stupidly fast.
I just couldnt get used to people buzzing me both sides on approaching corners etc, screwed up my lines at first.
From the trackday I saw you at Stig you need go into inters.
yorkie_chris
10-11-10, 05:34 PM
If you know the guys you are riding with then you also know those who aren't with you and who aren't expecting you to pass them into a corner. These are the riders you give more space and are courteous to...
Thought this would be an edgy subject. I just want to point out that i'm not a nutter or chav *******. Just a guy whose interested in a debate... :D
Having been to a couple of race meets now and seen the folk out on track on ridiculously cheap bikes with no race experience at all... go racing!
Seriously, Mad Tony had never even been on a trackday before starting racing in minitwins, and turned up with conti road attacks on. He did alright!
Having been to a couple of race meets now and seen the folk out on track on ridiculously cheap bikes with no race experience at all... go racing!
Seriously, Mad Tony had never even been on a trackday before starting racing in minitwins, and turned up with conti road attacks on. He did alright!
Oh i will. I'm going to set my sites on next summer. After all my work has died down.
I will need some help, and will probably be on the ****tiest bike ever, but i'll get there eventually. Think i'm going to promise to myself that i will have raced by the end of 2011, otherwise i'll never bloody do it. :-({|=
UKPrincess
10-11-10, 07:05 PM
I don't think that is really the case... most people I know that are to quick for novices just doubt their own ability.
hey, is he talking about me :smt039
Fully agree, its intimidating at first, for me it was anyhow.
Ego boosters, makes them feel special overtaking a noob, but tbh a lot werent that great at late braking or tight corners, i got overtook on the really fast corners by track bikes mainly, but im ok with that as i didnt wanna go stupidly fast.
I just couldnt get used to people buzzing me both sides on approaching corners etc, screwed up my lines at first.
A lot of people stick themselves in the lower groups if they are unfamiliar with the bikes, or testing their track-bike etc. As the day goes on the people usually get moved up if they are "buzzing" people.
I've put myself in novice for Silverstone for this reason, even though I was comfortably one of the quicker ones in novice when on the SV. I'm using the day to get my suspension set for my weight though and won't be pushing at all.
hardhat_harry
10-11-10, 08:35 PM
Well Im on a trackday on Tuesday at Oulton were 35 are from the Thundersport Grid . The TDO said if we get 10 we could get 10% off and a booked garage and it sort of errr snowballed. The TDO know the fast group is mostly racers and are ok with it in fact our lot is more than half of the total booked for the trackday.
After a hard fought season where all the trophy's are settled should be a good blowout to the season.
From the trackday I saw you at Stig you need go into inters.
You think? I'm not so sure. I'm actually not all that bothered myself of having my line stolen at the last second as I know I have the ability to change it where necessary. I think however I would annoy rather a few with my slow pace if I were to move up. That day at Rockingham was my first (and to date) only track day I have done. Yearning for more though. Just wish I had the time and cash to do it. :roll:
Back on track, (see what I did there?) there were a few guys in the novice group I was in who didn't really seem to worry about diving in on the inside of a few people who looked a bit unsteady and unsure of what they were doing. Maybe I was thinking too much about them and not enough about me? Or maybe I was thinking they looked a bit unsure so kept away for self preservation reasons.
The first rule of the track is Worry about whats in front of you, not behind you.
Its the person coming up behind's responsibility to avoid you. Even if show a blue flag in a race because you're about to be lapped means "Carry on riding as you were" and not to deviate from your normal riding. It's (supposed to be) a warning that they're coming and nothing more.
The more you worry about whats coming from behind, the less attention you have for whats going on in front and with your traction, line, turn in point, exit point, etc. (keith Code and his £10 of attention)
I saw one member on a track day this year (you know who you are ;) ) doing lifesavers in each corner. Looking back before tipping in. At the exact time he was supposed to be looking at the apex, he was looking back over his shoulder in case "anyone was coming". That makes hitting an apex quite a challenge unless you've got eyes in the back of your helmet :)
C
Was that aimed at my post Carl or just a post in general on the subject?
Easy to say don't worry about traffic behind but when you've been buzzed as your entering a corner and had to change your own line, for a newbie, it would be quite a worry I think wondering if on the next corner, someone is going to do it again. On my track day I did not think about anyone coming from behind but I did think about those in front of me who were holding me up in the corners. I got a bit frustrated some times when bigger more powerful bikes overtook me on the straights but then held me up in the corners.
Hmmmm, maybe inters is a better idea. :lol: I don't have enough track etiquette yet to move up a group. Think I will stick with novices for a while. After all, I have only ever done one track day.
Specialone
11-11-10, 11:31 AM
The first rule of the track is Worry about whats in front of you, not behind you.
Its the person coming up behind's responsibility to avoid you. Even if show a blue flag in a race because you're about to be lapped means "Carry on riding as you were" and not to deviate from your normal riding. It's (supposed to be) a warning that they're coming and nothing more.
The more you worry about whats coming from behind, the less attention you have for whats going on in front and with your traction, line, turn in point, exit point, etc. (keith Code and his £10 of attention)
I saw one member on a track day this year (you know who you are ;) ) doing lifesavers in each corner. Looking back before tipping in. At the exact time he was supposed to be looking at the apex, he was looking back over his shoulder in case "anyone was coming". That makes hitting an apex quite a challenge unless you've got eyes in the back of your helmet :)
C
I must admit, i done the life saver thing in the first few sessions, i was paranoid of me moving into the line for the corner then a knob buzzes up the inside, which they did nearly every session before.
After a while, i got the 'ah fook it' attitude and 'defended' my lines a bit better.
I wont be so courteous next time ;)
I have found a lack of consistancy in group paces and ability. I would place myself toward front of inters/back of fast group. Last time out went in inter/adv mixed at cadwell expecting to be middle of the pace. I was spending most sessions trying to "politely" overtake everyone apart from a tatty old gsxr750srad who was loads quicker than me with me on my tatty old 600srad. I was scared of going too close to people for fear of black flags. Cos of my lack of power on straights I had to do some outbraking moves as people with latest superfast bikes dont like old bikes outdoing them(one guy on a late model fireblade made a comment in paddock, he did not realise everyone was saying he should go in novices)). As someone mentioned they think they are fast cos they have bought a fast bike and see learning the tracks in novices (like I did) as below them! Inters can be a free for all cos of these riders and their "lines" plus fast group riders who go in inters to practice overtakes and boost their ego's. I have found fast group dont like roadbikes in their group.. lol. And will do any do or die move to get past one. To be fair I found that they rode better, smoother fast lines. The red flags seem more common cos the crashes are faster and bigger...eek! Where as slower group run offs dont always end in A+E. However I think if marshalls dont know you are mates it could look bad to them. Dont see problem if not affecting other riders, I presume you dont want to crash and red flag it?
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