Riding in cities/large towns

[missyburd]

Just wondering how people find they cope with it? Obviously if you've ridden/driven in cities for many years then it will become second nature but I find there is sometimes too much going on in cities to take in all at once and things can so easily get missed. When I was out on the road with an instructor I was occasionally missing the odd important thing, mainly because I didn't either see the appropriate sign in time or just didn't recognize it to take heed in time if that makes sense. Going from living in the country where road riding is a lot more straightforward and its the hazards you need to concentrate more on, I find it a tad stressful when in cities where more concentration has to be given to what the signs tell you. Makes me feel that important hazards could get overlooked.

Having spoken to a few people about this it seems its a common thing, too much information overload in cities with signs just being plonked in places you'd not expect to normally find them and generally poor road layout. My instructor seemed a little put out that I'd not noticed a couple of things but to tell the truth I'm not sure I would have completely understood what the sign was telling me even if I had seen it. I'm not talking about your normal signs as listed in the Highway Code, just variations that catch me out occasionally.

Please discuss!

[thulfi]

I ride in London mostly. Sometimes there is too much going on, but the most important hazards are the big cans of death trap around me.

Stick to modest speeds, and watch out for every single tool of a car driver. That's the main concern in towns, so don't get bogged down trying to clock every single sign on your route.

Urban riding is naff, it's like playing frogger.

[JamesMio]

When I'm riding in town or on the occasions I'm on the bike in Edinburgh or Glasgow etc, my head's twisting and turning all over the place like my neck's made of rubber, trying to keep an eye on everything that's going on.

It's not fun, riding in towns (although it does beat sitting in traffic in the car) but it does become easier. I had it described to me once as it just being risk assessment, i.e. what's the nearest / biggest potential hazard I need to deal with, deal with it then keep working back, which kinda made sense to me.

[Gene genie]

dont throw yourself in the deep end. if its a particular route you use everyday try riding it sunday morning to get familiar with it. in time things generaly fall into place and you find theres suddenly plenty of time to take it all in.
keep truckin myc.

[missyburd]

cheers for the replies guys :-)

Gene genie: I do find myself deliberately riding into town centres and strange areas to encourage different road layouts and unfamiliarity and I'm usually fine, but as usual, as soon as you go out with an instructor you just start over-analyzing your riding and generally thinking about stuff more.

[gfewster]

I just spent a month working as a courier in London.

The riding itself I found I got used to very quickly and was able to make good progress, dart through gaps, filter just about anything. The bike they gave me to use helped, it was a CBF600 which had a good upright riding position and is easy to duck and dive on - only gripe was that you have to work the gearbox quite a bit.

Totally see what you mean about the signs and information overload though, especially in London. Many times I'd move away from some lights or make a turn, and then as I proceeded down the road think "****, was I allowed to do that?". Normally I was ok, but the myriad of information on signs in London about what sort of vehicles can or cannot make what sort of manouveres at what times of the day and night did mess with my mind.

[timwilky]

I hardly ever ride in a town/city. I have my bike for fun not to torture me.

[thulfi]

I hardly ever ride in a town/city. I have my bike for fun not to torture me.

Still more fun than driving in a town/city though?

[missyburd]

I hardly ever ride in a town/city. I have my bike for fun not to torture me.

Unfortunately I have no choice, I'd rather ride my 125 than get on a bus :-P I have no qualms about riding in towns but cities scare me a little, probably because I'm on a small bike so my presence on the road is reduced, makes it all a bit more intimidating. I can filter no problem in a normal town, then I hit a city and I just get the feeling there must be a higher ratio of idiots to eejits so I don't filter as much...although saying that I don't go to many cities hence my problem!!

[Gene genie]

as soon as you go out with an instructor you just start over-analyzing your riding and generally thinking about stuff more.
not just me then. :D
i find that i am also very critical of my ridng when under the microscope. i suppose you never stop learning.
i get very annoyed with myself if a car has managed to sneak up on me or one has turned off without me registering it.
sounds like your still enjoying it myc which is why we all do it. just accept it, you've got the bug big style and you'll never be able to kick your habit.:(:D:D

[BBadger]

I quiet like riding in town, london especially. But it helps alot if you plan your route before hand as it means you spend less concentration on signs and where your going but more on your riding and every fool in a cage around you.

[missyburd]

I quiet like riding in town, london especially. But it helps alot if you plan your route before hand as it means you spend less concentration on signs and where your going but more on your riding and every fool in a cage around you.
This is very true, Google StreetView is a fantastic invention for this reason! I hate the feeling of not knowing where I'm going if I've got somewhere to be (different if I'm just on a bimble) so I find the StreetView a real help!

[BBadger]

Exactly. If your looking out for somthing, your not looking where your going which can become uncomfortable.
Good planned route
plenty of time to do it in

and the more you do it the less it will worry you and the more confident you'll become in your riding and observation of others.
Time and practice is all you need really.

[Stonesie]

Unfortunately I have no choice, I'd rather ride my 125 than get on a bus :-P I have no qualms about riding in towns but cities scare me a little, probably because I'm on a small bike so my presence on the road is reduced, makes it all a bit more intimidating. I can filter no problem in a normal town, then I hit a city and I just get the feeling there must be a higher ratio of idiots to eejits so I don't filter as much...although saying that I don't go to many cities hence my problem!!


I have to agree with this, riding my 125 in Sheffield was no fun and I was made very concious that I was a very small thing on the road, Doing the same route on the SV with its tiny end can and no L plates was much better, I'm sure other drivers were giving me more room and not trying to intimidate me as much...

[orose]

Probably the main key is to prioritize what you're seeing to give yourself a better chance of taking the right option. A useful cue would be the shape of the sign, as this tells you what sort of messages the sign has... round are orders, triangles are warnings, squares are information, so you can come back to squares after the others.

You've probably already had this one drummed into you as well... the speed limit is a limit, not a target, so if you need to slow down to take it all in, do so. I was in London this weekend, and while I was trying to navigate through to Westminster, I hardly went above 20 in 30 limits to make sure I didn't miss a direction, hit a pothole or a taxi. If you arrive late, at least you've arrived...

[Spikenipple]

What's good about riding in cities is that you're typically at a standstill more often, giving you plenty of time to read the signs ahead and get an idea of where you need to be. Filtering to the front of the queue where possible is always a good start so you can pull away before everyone else and get into place.

[yorkie_chris]

I have to agree with this, riding my 125 in Sheffield was no fun and I was made very concious that I was a very small thing on the road, Doing the same route on the SV with its tiny end can and no L plates was much better, I'm sure other drivers were giving me more room and not trying to intimidate me as much...

My 125 experience in Leeds was great fun at rush hour and terrible at any other time when traffic was encountered

[fizzwheel]

I dont like it, either riding or driving. Heres what I do...

Slow down, just because the limit is 30mph doesnt mean you have to ride that fast, that'll give you more time for

Observations, keep them up, you'll need eyes in the back of your head.

Always expect the unexpected

Everybody else is a moron

Learn to get used to reading the traffic flow, watch for gaps as the begin to develop and use that as a get out of jail free card / escape route

Leave a decent gap between you and the vehicle in front / that you are filtering past, space is your friend, again it'll leave you room to deal with the moron / unexpected

The more you ride in cities / heavy traffic the easier it'll get.

I loved riding my 125 in town / through traffic, so much easier to move it around due to lighter weight, high wide bars ( mine was an off road style bike ) was good fun.

[sinbad]

However big the city, you can only ride on one little part of it at a time. Roads are roads. Cars are cars. Everything is the same, hazards, junctions, you can encounter weird and busy ones anywhere, it's just that in a city it can be almost constant.

[missyburd]

What's good about riding in cities is that you're typically at a standstill more often, giving you plenty of time to read the signs ahead and get an idea of where you need to be. Filtering to the front of the queue where possible is always a good start so you can pull away before everyone else and get into place.

I admit, one of the things I didn't observe enough on was where I'd approached a junction with 4 or 5 cars in front and the lights on green, I usually rely on having to slow or stop at the front to observe junctions but I ended up having to go through and so didn't have enough time...if I'd have slowed down too much I might have had to stop suddenly for a red light because I was looking for something else, can't win!

Also, when I come to a traffic light in a city centre I sometimes don't filter to the front on purpose so I can see where the car in front is going (if we're in the same lane and I know I'm in the right lane) as this helps me sit in the middle instead of veering off slightly, does happen sometimes.

Probably the main key is to prioritize what you're seeing to give yourself a better chance of taking the right option. A useful cue would be the shape of the sign, as this tells you what sort of messages the sign has... round are orders, triangles are warnings, squares are information, so you can come back to squares after the others.

A good tip Ollie. You IAM riders have your uses :-P

[-Ralph-]

I have sat stationary in the traffic amongst the cars on the Euston Road/Marylebone Road/Westway, on my way out of London at 5:30pm, and just marvelled at the rest of the bikes. Some of the guys that ride in London every day are just nuts! I took the train today and missed a train home by a few minutes and had half hour to wait for the next one, so I went outside and just stood and watched all the bikes filtering and flying along for half an hour.

I can't do that myself, I am quite happy and confident to ride in and out of London, filter, and duck and dive, but not at the same speed as the guys who do it every day. It's something you get more used to and more adept at the more practice you have. For me as you say there is just too much information to process in too short a space of time, so the way to give yourself more time is to slow down.

Whilst the 'slow down' advice is good, if you don't move with the flow of the traffic, you come into conflict with the traffic, so it's OK to not filter, and OK to move with the traffic as if you were in a car, but I'd caution against city riding if you find yourself holding other vehicles up. That's when impatience sets in, and it only takes them to expect you to do something, and you don't do it, for them to run into the back of you, for instance, they expect you to run a yellow light, and you decide to brake for it. City drivers tend to drive very close and leave very little margin for error. If you find yourself holding stuff up, ride in and out at a quieter time of day until you've got a bit more confident.

Because of there being little margin for error, sometimes it's better in a city, if you think you path is clear ahead, but the danger is in your mirrors, take up your place and own your space on the road, and DON'T use your indicators. If the driver behind is left wondering what the hell you are going to do next, he'll leave more space. If he THINKS he knows what you are doing next, he will take up the position that gives him the best forward progress once you are cleared out of his path. If then you don't do what he expected, or he guessed wrong, accidents can happen. You need to be very sure of yourself when doing this though, and be very careful where/when/in what situation you apply it. So I'd say it's a technique for use further down the line for you.

You said sometimes you don't filter stationary traffic. If the traffic is not moving filtering through it is relatively safe, so long as you are watch for other vehicles, cyclists or pedestrians that could come across your path. Then once at the front, you use the power of the bike to get away first and into clean space. This is much safer than starting moving whilst mixed up in-between other vehicles. I learnt this in Mexico city, where you really didn't want to be stuck in the melee and chaos that took place when traffic started moving again and everybody was jostling for space and ignoring lane markings.

If there is a space - somebody will fill it! Always beware if you have a bit of empty road next to you, you'll look and it's clear, but with a few seconds some idiot will have filled it, in a vain attempt to get one car length further ahead. In London that space will be filled by 3 or 4 two wheelers, before you can say 'scooter'.

London is a different to any other city in the UK I think. Birmingham can be pretty manic, as I'm sure can Manchester, and some of the other bigger cities. (Mexico city is something else altogether!!)

One of the things I really notice, is that drivers in cities are so used to powered two wheelers, with scooters zipping around the place, that they loose the consideration and sense of vulnerability for two wheelers, that other drivers have outside of the cities. It's every man for himself, they give you no room, and if you get knocked off then that's your look-out.

The other thing is you have to watch pedestrians. Especially if they have a mobile phone to their ear! They will just take a quick glance down the road, and because they don't see a large vehicle they just step out.

[Bibio]

DON'T use your indicators.


:smt103

sorry Ralph but i totality disagree with that one m8. that's just an excuse for the driver behind to say 'sorry m8 you never indicated, i thought you were going straight on' when he smashes into you as you gave him no indication of your intention of manoeuvre (sp). most cage drivers are morons in a city don't give them an excuse.

[busasean]

I love riding in London - I suppose because I've commuted for the past 21 years. It can be a bit of a laugh with some of the couriers, but I also think the biggest help is I generally know where I'm going.. hated riding in Leeds/Manchester though when I had to go there.

I also think the met plod are alot more tolerant with bikes than other forces..

oh and ALWAYS use your indicators in London, it can really be difficult to ensure its clear where you going - dont give anyone an excuse.. not a pop Ralph - just experience..

[missyburd]

for instance, they expect you to run a yellow light, and you decide to brake for it. City drivers tend to drive very close and leave very little margin for error. If you find yourself holding stuff up, ride in and out at a quieter time of day until you've got a bit more confident.


I know what you mean about that...I've ended up running amber lights because I know damn well the car behind is so far up my ar5e there's no room for braking. Doesn't happen often but if it's in wet weather I'd rather not take the risk of jamming the brakes on and taking longer to stop anyway with a car kissing my licence plate :rolleyes:




You said sometimes you don't filter stationary traffic. If the traffic is not moving filtering through it is relatively safe, so long as you are watch for other vehicles, cyclists or pedestrians that could come across your path. Then once at the front, you use the power of the bike to get away first and into clean space.



AHEM, have you forgotten I'm on a YBR Ralph? :-P

[-Ralph-]

:smt103

sorry Ralph but i totality disagree with that one m8. that's just an excuse for the driver behind to say 'sorry m8 you never indicated, i thought you were going straight on' when he smashes into you as you gave him no indication of your intention of manoeuvre (sp). most cage drivers are morons in a city don't give them an excuse.


Thats OK mate, I dont expect everyone to agree with everything I post. :)

It was actually a retired police rider from Kirkcaldy that took me through that technique. London is very different to Edinburgh or Glasgow anyway. You can often find in London that somebody is following behind you leaving a little gap, and as soon as your indicator goes on they completely close that gap and sit on your rear wheel in anticipation of getting past you. You've had to put your indicator on because perhaps you have pedestrians waiting to cross the road your turning into, but if one of them then steps out causing you to brake, the guy behind is already less than six inches off your rear wheel. Crossing a main road at a staggered junction is particulrly bad, 'cos you accelerate out of the junction to turn left, then immediately slow to make a right hand turn. The guy behind has accelerated out behind you, assuming you were going left down the main road, and is still looking right towards the oncoming traffic.

You could argue scenarios where not indicating may be dangerous all day long, but there is no right or wrong answer, you have to use your experience, anticipation skills, understanding of the behaviour and expectations of the drivers around you, and apply that to the situation you are faced with there and then. This is why I have commented on the technique, but suggested that MYC doesnt use it yet.

[Daimo]

Watch every car,
Every gap for pedestrians
Know the width of your bike
Never ride faster than you can stop
Use the facility of a motorcycle to cut down every back road possible and get yourself through the cycle barriers as theres less cars.
Get to the front at every traffic light.
Generally, have your eyes absolutly everywhere. I didn't pay attention to signs, takes your eyes of what really matters, the road and paths around it.
Get a bike with ABS!!! Vital in the wet, on oily roads, with drains and white lines everywhere.

Or you can go the other way, which was to ride like a madman. I had more problems riding at slower speeds than hammering it everywhere!! I had no problems hammering it around town, I could really get a hustle on, but some of those courier boys :lol: Would leave me standing. Still, I only run over 1 person, went over 1 bonnet in 8 years, so once you know what your looking for, faster is better :D Don't wait, don't think, just do it. By the time you think, its already happened or you've lost your chance, see a gap, go. If someone doesn't like it, turn round and see what their problem is, give them the bird, carry on knowing you'll be home soon.

[Stu]

I find it helps to keep my eyes shut.

[barwel1992]

Watch every car,
Every gap for pedestrians
Know the width of your bike
Never ride faster than you can stop
Use the facility of a motorcycle to cut down every back road possible and get yourself through the cycle barriers as theres less cars.
Get to the front at every traffic light.
Generally, have your eyes absolutly everywhere. I didn't pay attention to signs, takes your eyes of what really matters, the road and paths around it.
Get a bike with ABS!!! Vital in the wet, on oily roads, with drains and white lines everywhere.

Or you can go the other way, which was to ride like a madman. I had more problems riding at slower speeds than hammering it everywhere!! I had no problems hammering it around town, I could really get a hustle on, but some of those courier boys :lol: Would leave me standing. Still, I only run over 1 person, went over 1 bonnet in 8 years, so once you know what your looking for, faster is better :D Don't wait, don't think, just do it. By the time you think, its already happened or you've lost your chance, see a gap, go. If someone doesn't like it, turn round and see what their problem is, give them the bird, carry on knowing you'll be home soon.

i also find that going faster helps very strange at first but going slow filtering just dosn't work for me

[hongman]

I remember when I first learnt to drive, and had to go into central london for work, I used to come home with a banging migraine from the pure concentration I had to exert.

Now, it doesnt bother me at all. Only thing that bothers me is the traffic itself ;)

Only been into C London on the bike a handful of times (5 or 6?), but I dont find it all that different to the car except I dont have to hang around as much :)

Practise, experience, nothing can replace it!

[dirtydog]

I find it helps to keep my eyes shut.

I think that just about sums up your riding "style" ;)

[-Ralph-]

YBR125 is still quicker off the mark 0 to 20 mph than your average family hatchback MYC

[missyburd]

YBR125 is still quicker off the mark 0 to 20 mph than your average family hatchback MYC
It is indeed but they soon catch up again :-P

[Daimo]

I remember when I first learnt to drive, and had to go into central london for work, I used to come home with a !

Ditto on the bike, and that was just riding through the Blackwall to Docklands from Kent. I used to get more tired by riding that actually working as it was so much ahrd work to observe everything.

I think your mind adjusts to whats important and whats not as you become more used to it.

[andrewsmith]

Because of there being little margin for error, sometimes it's better in a city, if you think you path is clear ahead, but the danger is in your mirrors, take up your place and own your space on the road, and DON'T use your indicators. If the driver behind is left wondering what the hell you are going to do next, he'll leave more space. If he THINKS he knows what you are doing next, he will take up the position that gives him the best forward progress once you are cleared out of his path. If then you don't do what he expected, or he guessed wrong, accidents can happen. You need to be very sure of yourself when doing this though, and be very careful where/when/in what situation you apply it. So I'd say it's a technique for use further down the line for you.

I'm with ralph it does mean the person behind has to pay full attention, but its an advanced technique and I would start to consider it after your test MYC.

I was given that advice by a police rider for Durham that took me for my Advanced test a few weeks ago.

[-Ralph-]

It is indeed but they soon catch up again :-P

That's OK, if your on a fireblade and you accelerate up to 30mph and the car behind accelerates up to 40, then he'll catch you. And eventually you'll catch the traffic in front. You have already achieved what you wanted to achieve, which is put yourself into a clear bit of road, and take up the desired position on the road, rather than being stuck in-between vehicles as they move off, and a 125 is more than capable of doing that. Safer to filter to the front and get a head start IMO.

[-Ralph-]

Oh, watch taxi's like a hawk MYC, they are always pulling manoeuvres that you wouldn't expect when picking up and dropping off passengers. After dropping of passengers they may be going to another job in the opposite direction, so they take one glance in the mirror and pull a U turn from the kerbside.

[gfewster]

I filtered tentatively when I first started commuting in, and a couple of weeks into the courier work I found myself as one of the faster riders on the road - probably one of the 'madmen' that a few of you have described.

Quite a strange experience actually. When the weather was good and I felt at one with the bike, it really felt like I was in some sort of 'zone'. Zipping though small gaps very quickly, and it not feeling risky at all - and on the bigger roads like the Westway, M4 and North Circular still filtering and lane-splitting up to 60-70mph. Felt like I had total control and everything seemed to be happening in slow motion.

I am however, acutely aware that all that was probably an illusion and most of the time I was a split-second away from death. A great experience, but glad to be back behind a desk!

[missyburd]

Oh, watch taxi's like a hawk MYC
Don't worry, where we live I knew that before I got on a bike...watch 'em like a hawk when I'm just walking on the pavement lol...