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Speedy Claire
18-11-10, 08:07 AM
Not had cause to use an electrician for some time so I`m wondering if £30 is a reasonable charge for fitting a spotlight in my kitchen? Tho it seems a bit steep to me this might be the current rate so am after some opinons. I`ve removed the current light fitting so it`s literally a case of just fitting the new one.

Many thanks in advance :D

timwilky
18-11-10, 08:15 AM
Seems very fair.

I would expect he would be looking at 15-20/hour, plus his call out etc.

A decent electrician would not simply install onto the circuit where you have removed the current fitting without checking it properly first, otherwise he is liable for any damage/injury even if it is not on a part of the circuit he has worked on.

EG, correctly fused, correctly earthed, cable size and condition etc. So not quite as simple as connecting to the existing wire.

By the way, I no longer do electrical work since the Part P requirement, but I have seen plenty of real dodgy wiring that I have condemned when asked to "add a socket/light" etc. Although the resulting total rewires used to be a very nice little earner.

Sid Squid
18-11-10, 08:22 AM
Cheaper than me.

Speedy Claire
18-11-10, 08:48 AM
Many thanks guys... will ask him to go ahead then :D

Bluefish
18-11-10, 10:23 AM
I recon your looking at 40-60 quid an hour, depends what he finds though.

Dave20046
18-11-10, 11:28 AM
sounds similar to what I've been quoted.
hope you don't mind me highjacking your thread claire but does anyone know if £350 is reasonable for replacing a main circuit board with an up to spec/regulations new rcd unit? (i have no idea how long that should take!)

Sid Squid
18-11-10, 11:59 AM
Depends on a number of things including:
Does that include supplying the CCU?
What type of CCU; RCD split load, all RCBO, or... something else?
How many ways, (circuits), are needed?
Is the cabling suitable to be connected directly to the new board?
Does that include the test?

Difficult to be specific about price unless the exactitudes of the task are known :D. How long it will take rather depends on a survey of the specifics of your present installation too, this is particularly true of the testing and rectification of faults found, if any.

Dave20046
18-11-10, 12:16 PM
Depends on a number of things including:
Does that include supplying the CCU?
What type of CCU; RCD split load, all RCBO, or... something else?
How many ways, (circuits), are needed?
Is the cabling suitable to be connected directly to the new board?
Does that include the test?

Difficult to be specific about price unless the exactitudes of the task are known :D. How long it will take rather depends on a survey of the specifics of your present installation too, this is particularly true of the testing and rectification of faults found, if any.
well the above is a bit over my head unfortunately!all I know is I have a mishmash of 70s and 80s electrics I've been quoted £350 to " Replace Consumer Unit with new 8way split load RCD Unit.* Test and issue Domestic Installation Certificate to Building Regulations (Part P)*"
does that make sense?
excuse my ignorance!

Sid Squid
18-11-10, 11:45 PM
does that make sense?
Yes. Pay the 350 notes is my advice.

HTH.

Kilted Ginger
19-11-10, 12:32 AM
I'd come and do it for you claire for a cup of tea but it would be more than £30 in petrol.

Fruity-ya-ya
19-11-10, 12:38 AM
sounds similar to what I've been quoted.
hope you don't mind me highjacking your thread claire but does anyone know if £350 is reasonable for replacing a main circuit board with an up to spec/regulations new rcd unit? (i have no idea how long that should take!)

I'll ask about at work. Plenty of ex sparkies.
Sounds reasonable if you want my gut answer as the kit can be pricey and taking into account the hourly rates it's not astronomic.

beabert
19-11-10, 12:40 AM
Aren't you allowed to do this stuff yourself now?

timwilky
19-11-10, 07:48 AM
Aren't you allowed to do this stuff yourself now?


Of course you can, replacing is allowed, changing is not.

However, you can do all you want, the issue is that you need to get a part P certificate. It was all a con by the last government to stop competent people doing work on their own homes without the local councils being informed. There was no need for it, just government busy bodying.

Dave20046
19-11-10, 10:44 AM
cheers sid and fruity :thumright:

embee
19-11-10, 02:07 PM
It's a bit more involved, but in simplest terms Part P only needs you to notify certain works, e.g. new circuits, installing new fittings in kitchens/bathrooms/outside. You can replace like-for-like switches, outlets etc without notifying, and that includes kitchens/bathrooms, for example if you want new styled sockets or switches when decorating. You can install new sockets etc in other rooms without notifying. You can replace damaged sections of wiring on existing circuits. If uncertain, read Part P of the Building Regs.

Of course if the work was done before Jan 2004 you didn't need to notify anyway ;). Cable used before then would probably be red/black but of course it might have been necessary to replaced a damaged cable by now with brown/blue and replace the old fitting with a newer style.

beabert
19-11-10, 08:12 PM
Of course you can, replacing is allowed, changing is not.

However, you can do all you want, the issue is that you need to get a part P certificate. It was all a con by the last government to stop competent people doing work on their own homes without the local councils being informed. There was no need for it, just government busy bodying.

Oh dear lol. Oh well, never knew.

Specialone
19-11-10, 08:20 PM
cheers sid and fruity :thumright:

That's about the going rate dave, my sparky has done a few fusebox swaps for my customers and charged around that depending on what they have obviously.

The part p is a load of Bolox, fully qualified, time served electricians can't certify their own work if not signed up to part p, NIC or similar, yet an inexperienced kitchen fitter can ??;)

Btw, there are various levels of part p I have been told, kitchen fitters with it can't do fusebox swaps.

Dave20046
19-11-10, 08:59 PM
That's about the going rate dave, my sparky has done a few fusebox swaps for my customers and charged around that depending on what they have obviously.

The part p is a load of Bolox, fully qualified, time served electricians can't certify their own work if not signed up to part p, NIC or similar, yet an inexperienced kitchen fitter can ??;)

Btw, there are various levels of part p I have been told, kitchen fitters with it can't do fusebox swaps.

Ta Phil, yeah the Part p bit sounds to be a bit of Bureaucratic *******s. Not sure if it's to do with that or genuinely is a safety issue but there's no earth bonding in the bathroom, but apparantly it doesn't need to be added if there's an up to spec fusebox in the house. I can give moving sockets and stuff ago myself but I can't even do bike electrics so doubt I could handle a fusebox swap!
And no he ain't a kitchen fitter ,he's a proper sparky - got letters after his name and everyfink!

Cheers, sorry again to derail claire.

thefallenangel
19-11-10, 10:28 PM
As an industrial sparkie i am shafted over by part P. How the hell can i go from working on 690v Motors pulling hundreds of amps okay down to working on something protected by at least 2/3 safety devices and have to have Part P. I've got my 17th Edition and to me it depends on who interprets the readings but basically if you can prove it was safe at the point it was last inspected then your covered (which to me means 17th Edition and Inspection and testing are more importantly than Part P).

Also word of advice, my aunties Distribution board burnt out and she'd paid top whack to have it done. They put some cheap, nasty board in and within 3 years a loose connection on the main neutral out and burnt the board out, 2 RCCB's had failed when i tried to test them as well. Safe to say it has been rapidly replaced.

Oh on the light for £30 sounds okay but the Fuse Board for £350 is well overpriced. I got a 10 way RCD board, 3 32 Amp, 2 16 Amp and 4 6 Amp C rated breakers for £66 with vat. 3 Hours labour to change and test a board. £250-£300 sounds fair enough. Unless you live in the sticks i'd ask for a 2nd quote from someone else. Unless you know the wiring is old and could be a bigger job than first anticipated.

Sid Squid
20-11-10, 10:14 AM
Aren't you allowed to do this stuff yourself now?
You always could and you still can, but can you test it to the relevant standards and methods? I can and that's why I get paid to do this stuff.
A new board that has protective devices not previously fitted to the installation is a notifiable change.

Very simply put, replacement of existing fittings, anything that doesn't require you to touch the wiring - new sockets, switch faces or light fittings for example - needs no certification and isn't notifiable, any alteration or extension - basically if you need to do any wiring - almost certainly does.

And yes, as said above, Part 'P' and the new ludicrous paper chase of testing and certification is a load of cobblers and hasn't made any significant difference to electrical safety, it costs a lot of money of course. So that's alright then.

And don't get me started on the bloody harmonised colours, I actually think it's a dangerous change that will cause more risk to the exact people it's attempting to mollycoddle.

beabert
20-11-10, 03:31 PM
I 'may' have run a cable from inside a fused switch for the boiler to power a thermostat. Is that allowed?

thefallenangel
20-11-10, 05:24 PM
modifying cabling isn't.

Hold on if modifiying cabling isn't allowed people will just put a plug on everything (and leave a 13A fuse in there even though it will run a little outside light probably) and make things worse anyway?

embee
20-11-10, 06:59 PM
Unless Part P has changed (again) recently, it is only new fittings in kitchens/bathrooms/outside, consumer unit change, and additional new circuits that are notifiable (in the simplest terms anyway).

Adding a new socket to an existing circuit in your sitting room or bedroom, even if it means adding new cabling, is not notifiable.

Connecting anything to an existing connection unit (e.g. a switched fused connection point for a boiler, or connecting an electric oven to a suitable outlet) is not notifiable even in a kitchen.

*** I stand to be corrected and apologise if I'm out of date, but that's how it was. Read the document to be sure (I haven't read it recently, can't be bothered) ***.

It's nearly as bad as the gas regs, the bods will all tell you it's illegal to do anything with gas stuff unless you're registered. It's not. You can do DIY gas work perfectly legally (i.e. no reward involved) without being registered.......... but it might well be highly inadvisable.

Read the Statutory Instrument. If you do it "for reward" then you have to be registered with the "approved" body, it doesn't even state GAS-SAFE (or formerly CORGI), it just happens that they are the only approved body but they are not specified by name. It does say that you basically must know what you're doing though. *** Again, I haven't read the Stautory Instrument recently.***

Most regs are quite carefully written to be very specific about what they are and are not regulating (though Part P hasn't exactly excelled in this), most confusion arises when people (like me :D ) bandy about odd bits and pieces and mis-quote or mis-represent what the document actually says. Part P essentially lays down a process by which works in certain areas involving various hardware should be done, and notified and approved if necessary. It is clear what is and isn't notifiable. If it isn't, it isn't, simple. It doesn't even say what you can or can't do (though it does say you should be competent), it doesn't even state that it has to be done in accordance with 17th Edition or whatever, but that is the best set of standards by which to work in order to satisfy the competence requirements, and covers you in most eventualities.

If you don't know what you're doing, then don't. Remember there's a Power Staion on the other end of the cable.

READ PART P

Specialone
20-11-10, 07:04 PM
You can add new spurs and cable for them no probs, you're just allowed to extend the circuit i believe.
It is a joke tbh, i can do most stuff, its not hard, but im not allowed to.

Dave20046
20-11-10, 07:11 PM
Got a lot of sockets to add/move, worth knowing - might give it a go myself then get the dude to check it when he does the consumer unit/issues part p cert.
If I can wire a plug I take it I can add a socket? Just trace out some plaster, run a bit of trunking and wire, fit socket and skim over?

Dave20046
20-11-10, 07:14 PM
Oh and maybe turn off the lectrics first?

Specialone
20-11-10, 07:47 PM
Got a lot of sockets to add/move, worth knowing - might give it a go myself then get the dude to check it when he does the consumer unit/issues part p cert.
If I can wire a plug I take it I can add a socket? Just trace out some plaster, run a bit of trunking and wire, fit socket and skim over?

Dont forget to put the grommet on the hole in the back box where the cables pass through, its a common mistake.

thefallenangel
20-11-10, 08:06 PM
to check this as well you can do the work yourself as long as you get it check before it's powered.

For the Part P electricians out there can you tell me how much work you do for industrial electricans who don't have Part P?

timwilky
21-11-10, 12:14 PM
Our electrical drawing office manager was having a house built and decided to do his own electrics. He had to get his deputy to show him how to wire a 3 way lighting circuit. Yet he was quite happy to approve drawing for power stations.

So sometimes perhaps it is a good thing that industrial electrical engineers don't go near domestic stuff.

His deputy tells me that when he worked for the local electrical board as an apprentice he had to do non payment disconnects. He turned up at one house with his oppo and the lady of the house made them an offer they had to refuse of her for the oppo and her daughter for him.

Sid Squid
21-11-10, 12:46 PM
*** I stand to be corrected and apologise if I'm out of date, but that's how it was. Read the document to be sure (I haven't read it recently, can't be bothered) ***.
No, you're quite correct, I made my explanation deliberately simplistic. It's true that some changes can be made without notification, but the general rule of thumb is that wiring changes will require it, which is what I was trying to get at.

Stuuk1
21-11-10, 11:26 PM
Part P is crap but works as a very handy excuse for me when asked to do any private domestic work that I dont want to do... 'sorry, im not part p...'

Anyway, domestic wiring is horrible, ill stick to my larger AC/DC works... Much cleaner :)