How should the bike get up to temp on a 2 mile commute?

[-Ralph-]

This is borne out of Mr Endo's "More Stupid Questions, I can't seem to get a answer", thread. He's still not getting an answer because I've given one bit of advice and Biker Biggles has given another. How is he going to be anything other than more confused? So we need a poll folks!

Please vote for whichever you think is the CORRECT advice. I have no interest in posting this Poll, which way the opinion swings. All that matters is that Mr Endo gets the right advice, or at least the advice that the majority believe to be right!

So Mr Endo's journey to work is only two miles. His bike is only getting up to 60 degrees.

Please vote for what you would advise

A: Tick over before setting off whilst gloves and lid go on, bike hits 85 degrees before you get to work.

B: Ride immediately from cold, if bike only gets to 60 degrees, so be it.

I don't know about Mr Endo, but I'm always running late, taking a longer route to work would usually leave me in trouble with the boss. Only Mr Endo can tell us if that's an option in his case.

The bike is a 56 plate pointy, so it will only run on the choke for the first 20 seconds or so after being started.

... So long as the bike gets up to reading 85 degrees by the time you get to work, it has all warmed up properly... If you wheel your bike out and start the engine before putting on your earplugs, lid and gloves, the temp gauge should be rising before you set off. Just don't give it the berries on your rides to and from work, save that for a weekend blast when it is nicely warmed up.

As for warming up the engine before driving off---dont do it.The engine warms quicker and with less wear if you ride it gently as soon as it will go without cutting out on you.Just never thrash it until fully warmed.If it doesnt get hot because your journey isnt long enough so be it. You do less wear by riding it than letting it tick over on choke while you faff about.Perhaps go the long way round to work?

[TazDaz]

Noise could be a factor though...I'd be a bit peeved if I had a neighbour who needed to go to work quite early and he left his bike running for a while whilst I was sleeping.

[-Ralph-]

Noise could be a factor though...I'd be a bit peeved if I had a neighbour who needed to go to work quite early and he left his bike running for a while whilst I was sleeping.

Could be yes, depends what time and if he has a road legal exhaust.

[Specialone]

Col, I think you need another level on the poll, I tick my bikes over while lid and gloves go on but they are no way up to temp, 30 seconds I guess.

[-Ralph-]

Col, I think you need another level on the poll, I tick my bikes over while lid and gloves go on but they are no way up to temp, 30 seconds I guess.

It's not supposed to be up to temp, it's just to help him get up to temp by the time he gets to work, rather than arriving at work when the bikes only at 60 degrees then switching it off. If it's at 25 degrees by the time you jump on it and ride away, you've achieved what you wanted.

The point of the poll is to see what people think about whether that's good for the engine. It's what I've always done and what I've always been told to do, and I've never had any problems, but I don't know if it's harmful to the engine or not.

If you let your bikes tick over, and you don't think it does any harm, vote for that.

[Stonesie]

Option C
Find a longer way to work and enjoy the ride, letting an engine warm up on idle is pretty bad for it for a number of reasons including the neighbour factor, I had to change my stubby exhaust for a bigger one because of this.
While it was being swapped over the engine had to be started and revved with no can or link pipe:smt098
It just has to be done... Sorry, I digress, back on topic...



I would say your commute should be about 5 miles to get the oil warmed through so you don't get a condensation build-up in the crankcase, that will show itself as 'Mayo' around the filler cap and possibly visible in the sight glass, remember that the oil takes longer to warm up than the coolant which the temperature gauge monitors.

[yorkie_chris]

Either will be fine, neither will likely get it hot enough to dry the oil.

Just add a 20+ mile blast once a week to get the water out of the oil.

[-Ralph-]

remember that the oil takes longer to warm up than the coolant which the temperature gauge monitors.

Is this still true on a thermostat controlled system? Water absorbs heat much quicker than oil, and it runs through a hotter part of the engine with the specific purpose of taking away heat (whereas oil is there to lubricate), so actually water in the cylinder head will heat up much quicker, but the thermostat won't open and allow the water to flow until the heat has reached the thermostat, and the temperature reading is taken at the thermostat. I thought this was why you never get an oil temperature gauge nowadays, the coolant temperature gauge is sufficient info.

[-Ralph-]

Either will be fine, neither will likely get it hot enough to dry the oil.

Just add a 20+ mile blast once a week to get the water out of the oil.

Do we need another option? Can I edit a poll?

Chris, look at my Q above on coolant?

[yorkie_chris]

Oil is getting sprayed onto the bottom of the combustion chamber and into pockets on head near combustion chamber too.

I think oil warming up slowly is due to large thermal mass of engine which will act as a heat sink.

[Dave20046]

voted b as its closer to what I do. like special one I wheel the bike out start it up and let it tick over while I gear up and lock the garage I then ride as gently and smoothly as safe /practical til its above about 50 degrees

p.s you just found the poll function or sommat ralph? :)

[Specialone]

p.s you just found the poll function or sommat ralph? :)

Lol :)

[-Ralph-]

voted b as its closer to what I do. like special one I wheel the bike out start it up and let it tick over while I gear up and lock the garage I then ride as gently and smoothly as safe /practical til its above about 50 degrees

p.s you just found the poll function or sommat ralph? :)

You should have voted A. We are only talking about the amount of time taken to get your earplugs, gloves and helmet on. No more than a minute, but the engine heats quite quickly during that minute, 'cos the thermostat hasn't opened yet. Try putting your hands on the engine block after a minute.

I like Polls! :-)

[Dave20046]

sorry I misread the first poll option ,thought it said tickover till it hits 85 degrees! thought that'd do more damage if anything

..doh

[-Ralph-]

I wasn't going to vote on this, because my advice to Mr Endo was based upon what I have always done and been told to do, but not on science, but I'll put a vote in now and it'll balance out Dave's c0ck up.

[speedplay]

2 mile commute?

I'd walk.

By the time i'd got my bike out and sorted my kit out id be halfway to work :)

[-Ralph-]

2 mile commute?

I'd walk.

By the time i'd got my bike out and sorted my kit out id be halfway to work :)

Personally I'd rather walk than only get my bike up to 60 degrees every day, but the poll is suggesting otherwise at the moment.

I could never be disciplined enough to take a longer route to work, so it would have to be a longer route home a couple of times a week, just to ensure the bike gets up to temperature.

[speedplay]

get a mountain bike...;)

[Mr EnDo]

I would walk normally but the builders are working outside my house and bike is kept on road side and they have a nasty habbit of not seeing it. Plus I would like to use it as a way of getting out of work at lunch time if you know what I mean. :D

[-Ralph-]

Plus I would like to use it as a way of getting out of work at lunch time if you know what I mean. :D

If you are going for a one hour blast at lunchtime a couple of times a week, then all this is irrelevant. You'll be getting your engine up to temperature often enough.

[CSpronken]

For a 2 miles commute? Use a bike without engine.

My teacher at automotive engineering told me, start up and drive off gently. Having it tick over at idle will wear down the cams more. I never tested it, but I don't let it tick over unnecessarily.

[Mr EnDo]

Like already said I plan to leave it outside when possible as its a quick walk but, the builders have got some big lorry's on my street at moment and getting close to knocking my bike over.

[Mr Speirs]

If it were me, I would start the engine, put my helmet and gloves on and ride the bike. Oil takes quite a long time to heat up to temperature.

For comparison, my 749 (water cooled) used to show the coolant was up to temperature by the time I left the village about 1/2 of a mile.

My Hyper (not water cooled and therefore has a oil temp gauge) doesn't get up to temperature until about 5 miles.

As long as you take it easy for that 2 mile commute and take it for a long blast every now and then to (as YC says) clear the water out then you needn't worry about getting the oil up to temperature. Just enjoy the bike.

[-Ralph-]

Thanks folks, think the poll is pretty conclusive on this one and I've learned something from it too, I won't bother hitting the starter button until I'm ready to go from now on. Great way to resolve conflicting opinions and get the right answer IMO!

[Bluefish]

Even if either way caused some harm to the engine, it would only be a problem if you kept the bike for the ammount of years it takes to become a problem, and seeing as most people swap bikes every 2-3 years, no problemo imo.

[Specialone]

When i purchased my sv new from sutton suzuki, the dealer told me to let it warm up a bit before riding off, so thats what i did as i didnt know any better.
I doubt any of us would ever see the difference as BFM said even if we put 25k on them.
Engines are built to quite decent standards these days and as its your money that bought the bike, do what you want as im sure it wont affect it at all imo, as long as you dont thrash it until warm then thats all.

[-Ralph-]

I don't think you'd see any difference until 80k or more.

[Mr EnDo]

Thanks guys, Yeah I got told the same Specialone, Let the bike idle until you get a reading on the temp sensor then take it easy to let it warm up, but they didn't say it had to be upto 85oC. I think I do a bit of both wont harm me to walk, I just want to make sure the bike is safe, and there is no lockup's around my way before any one asks. Thanks for the comments, and a big thanks to Ralph and his help, and welcoming into the forums.

[-Ralph-]

85 degrees is just "operating temperature" for a pointy SV.

Help is what this forum is here for mate! There are one or two wind up merchants and trolls about unfortunately, but the majority of folk on here are genuine, and will help you any way they can.

[The Basket]

I always like to heat up an engine especially on a cold day.

I travel on a dual carriage way so kinda giving high revs sharpish after first start up. Not the best idea.

I always feared stalling a cold motorcycle engine so I always put in a little heat before setting off.

[-Ralph-]

I always feared stalling a cold motorcycle engine so I always put in a little heat before setting off.

My XT600 is like this, can't touch the throttle for the first 30 seconds when the choke is fully out, or it floods. Once warm it starts lovely. I strongly suspect the carbs need looking at on that bike though.

It isn't the first carb petrol engined thing I've had like that though. I had a manual choke Escort which was the same, another bike, and a two stroke 35cc chainsaw which needs to warm up on the choke for a couple minutes before you can touch the trigger.

[Specialone]

Yep, my 2 stroke chainsaw, my strimmer, my old lamby, all needed to idle for a bit before you can use them.
Even my DRZ cant just be rode straight away when its cold like now, otherwise it will cut out.

[beabert]

Thanks folks, think the poll is pretty conclusive on this one and I've learned something from it too, I won't bother hitting the starter button until I'm ready to go from now on. Great way to resolve conflicting opinions and get the right answer IMO!

Not really the best way to get the right answer IMO, watching QI teaches you that, the majority and obvious answers are not always right.

As for this question I have no idea which is better for the engine. Ill carry on warming my carbed SV up before going, just because its smoother to ride and less likely to stall on me.

[Sid Squid]

Poll? Neither/both - it doesn't matter as they're both poor options.

But as answered in another similar thread; if that's what you need to do with your bike, that's what you need to do with your bike.

There couldn't be a worse way to treat an engine though.

[Mr EnDo]

I think the thread has gone out of hand, and is now missing the point.

I have understood everything everyone is saying but, I am not going to be running engine and driving off straight from cold, I leave it on tick over until temp is displayed on display, I then move off, but by the time I get to work in the mornings currently the temp reads around 60-65oc and is going to get lower as more colder it gets, what I was asking was this ok to switch the bike off at this temp or do I need it up to 85+ to make sure the oil has heated up before turning off, and keeping at low temp a lot would damage the engine, but a mate also said the battery won't last long. So I have decided if I need to go out at Lunch or go some where after work take the bike if not walk.

[Specialone]

Poll? Neither/both - it doesn't matter as they're both poor options.

But as answered in another similar thread; if that's what you need to do with your bike, that's what you need to do with your bike.

There couldn't be a worse way to treat an engine though.

TBH mate, would we really see the results of either???

My dealer, who supposed to know about things, told me to do it the way i did, until somebody more qualified comes along with evidence, not their opinion, i aint gonna be changing my mind.
Im not so pig headed to say its my way or the highway, i will listen to facts and adjust my habits accordingly, but until were told different, what can we all do ?

[Sid Squid]

My dealer, who supposed to know about things, told me to do it the way i did, until somebody more qualified comes along with evidence, not their opinion, i aint gonna be changing my mind.
Fair enough, I know that I know about this, but in your position of not knowing me I can understand that you may not place any weight to my thoughts.
I don't see how I could practically supply evidence, however if you'd like to read Embee's thoughts on the subject - he works in engine design and testing - you'll find much of interest.

[-Ralph-]

Poll? Neither/both - it doesn't matter as they're both poor options.

If both are poor options, what is the right thing to do then?

Shall do a search for Embee's stuff tomorrow, unless someone can post a link in the meantime.

[sam anon]

Poll? Neither/both - it doesn't matter as they're both poor options.

But as answered in another similar thread; if that's what you need to do with your bike, that's what you need to do with your bike.

There couldn't be a worse way to treat an engine though.

What's the best way Sid?

I normally put my ear-plugs in and helmet on, start bike on full choke, put gloves on, turn choke off, ride off and wait for three bars on the engine temp gauge before riding the bike hard.

[yorkie_chris]

Best way is to ride far enough to get it up to temperature fully.

[-Ralph-]

Best way is to ride far enough to get it up to temperature fully.

Sid said both poll options are bad, we know he thinks idling is bad (and I know he knows his onions)

so that leaves us with

Ride from cold is also Bad?

or

Ride from cold is good, but bad if you don't get it up to temperature?

[svrich]

I doubt anything you do will be any better or worse for the engine, but running it for that short time/distance will damage it. As several have said, and YC above, the journey will need to be longer to get the temperature up enough for the oil to work properly. Fortunately my journey starts and finishes with about five minutes of stop start, easy throttle, 30mph riding. This allows the engine the time to get ready for my blast on the open roads. I don't wait for it to warm up before starting out though. I get the choke to a level where 1500 rpm is steady and then shut it off after a couple of junctions when it is able to hold the revs without it.

[svrich]

Sid said both poll options are bad, we know he thinks idling is bad (and I know he knows his onions)

so that leaves us with

Ride from cold is also Bad?

or

Ride from cold is good, but bad if you don't get it up to temperature?
By the time he has waited for the bike to get up to temperature he could have jumped on a push bike and ridden the two miles to work already.

[yorkie_chris]

Sid said both poll options are bad, we know he thinks idling is bad (and I know he knows his onions)

so that leaves us with

Ride from cold is also Bad?

or

Ride from cold is good, but bad if you don't get it up to temperature?

Use the f***ing search function seems to cover all the above options :)

[-Ralph-]

Use the f***ing search function seems to cover all the above options :)

Can't be f****g ar$ed 'cos I'm going to bed seems to cover that response ;)

[Specialone]

Nor f**king me, I'll read the thread after someone posts the link up ;)

[yorkie_chris]

Can't be f****g ar$ed 'cos I'm going to bed seems to cover that response ;)

If you cannot be f***ing ar$ed to search I cannot be f***ing ar$ed to write a sensible answer. Seems to cover a lot of threads appearing over last few days eh :p:rolleyes:

[beabert]

Here you go you lazy *******s lol

http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=83586&highlight=warm+up
http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=101456&highlight=warm+up
http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=76036&highlight=warm+up

Sounds right and justified to me, choke on just to start, turn it of as soon as possible, then open throttle a tad to warm up rather than use the choke, (Or ride at low revs until warm)

[metalhead19]

hold throttle open gently to warm up

Think my neighbors would kill me if i sat on the drive with the throttle open til the bike was warm.
But thanks for the summary, way to lazy to read them all ;)

[beabert]

Think my neighbors would kill me if i sat on the drive with the throttle open til the bike was warm.
But thanks for the summary, way to lazy to read them all ;)

Not fully open, under 3k, less rich than using choke, illl edit.

[toxic]

2 miles?
Quicker to walk than take cover off bike, remove chains and disc locks, put locks, cover and chains inside house.
Put on gear, push bike up the drive to avoid the akrapovic rattling neighbours windows. Which is sometimes payback for their door slamming, but at 06h45 too early for vengeance.

Or ride the mountain bike.

[Mr EnDo]

Yeah I decided inless I need it for something during the day it stays parked up :D

[-Ralph-]

Here you go you lazy *******s lol

http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=83586&highlight=warm+up
http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=101456&highlight=warm+up
http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=76036&highlight=warm+up

Sounds right and justified to me, choke on just to start, turn it of as soon as possible, then open throttle a tad to warm up rather than use the choke, (Or ride at low revs until warm)

Merci! Shall read those this evening with interest. :D

I noted that my petrol Vectra had done 3 miles before the temperature gauge moved this morning.

I'm doing a lot of work in London at the moment, which means a 3.6 mile journey to the railway station in the morning before switching off. Depending upon what I read tonight, I may start using the wife's car.

[hongman]

Both options are to ride it within 30s-1min of each other, so I doubt either makes any noticeable difference.

Real question should be, are you going to give it a good blast as and when possible?

If not, I suspect the battery would show signs of failure sooner than the engine.

For the record now it's cold, I start the bike on half choke, while I get lid + gloves on (everthing else is done), this takes about 30s. Get on, take choke off and see that it is idling ok. Ride off.

In the summer I used to just do the same without the choke.

[SVFreak]

This is all rubbish, modern engines are fine to be ridden however, wether it be a 2 mile commute twice a day or 200 miles a day. No different to a car. Just ride it then when it breaks fix it. This is too much fuss about how to use, when to use etc..
Just ride it and ignore all these wanna be mechanics :-)

[beabert]

Just ride it then when it breaks fix it. This is too much fuss about how to use, when to use etc..
Just ride it

I agree, just bloody ride the thing.

[-Ralph-]

Cars can't drive away in winter until the windscreen is defrosted on the outside and demisted on the inside anyway. De-icer spray and scrapers help, but it's still not unusual to see it idling for 2-3 minutes before you can drive away.

[-Ralph-]

Here you go you lazy *******s lol

http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=83586&highlight=warm+up
http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=101456&highlight=warm+up
http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=76036&highlight=warm+up

Sounds right and justified to me, choke on just to start, turn it of as soon as possible, then open throttle a tad to warm up rather than use the choke, (Or ride at low revs until warm)

So according to these the whole f*****g thread has been taken out of context as per usual.

All the threads above, including Embee's posts, say idling for 30 seconds or a minute is absolutely fine, and correctly observes that a lot of carbed bikes can't be ridden straight off the starter button as the engine it not yet settled enough run smoothly and not kangaroo about.

The OP clearly clarifies what the two poll options mean and states

If you wheel your bike out and start the engine before putting on your earplugs, lid and gloves, the temp gauge should be rising before you set off.

Then later in the thread

We are only talking about the amount of time taken to get your earplugs, gloves and helmet on. No more than a minute)

If it's at 25 degrees by the time you jump on it and ride away, you've achieved what you wanted.

So that's 20-25 degrees on a pointy, or the gauge just having started working and lifted off the needle stop on a curvy.

As usual nobody read it, and therefore the poll results are bollox.

Nobody suggested that the bike should be sitting idling for five minutes.

[Specialone]

Col, I think you need another level on the poll, I tick my bikes over while lid and gloves go on but they are no way up to temp, 30 seconds I guess.

Tbh Col, a lot if people, including me, misread option 1 at first because of the way it was worded.
We all thought you meant idling until 85 degrees, where in reality you meant 85 degrees by the time mr endo got to work.

So in real terms, most of us are doing it the right way anyway :)

[-Ralph-]

So in real terms, most of us are doing it the right way anyway :)

No, because the OP clearly gave all the details and clarified what both polls meant.

[Stu]

Tbh Col, a lot if people, including me, misread option 1 at first because of the way it was worded.
We all thought you meant idling until 85 degrees, where in reality you meant 85 degrees by the time mr endo got to work.

So in real terms, most of us are doing it the right way anyway :)
Wow, time to hang up your internet boots if you can't read.

[Mr EnDo]

LOL can't believe this thread has reached 7 pages, I have decided I do what is needed when with it, if I need to use it for the day I will if I don't I walk. Simples.

[Specialone]

Wow, time to hang up your internet boots if you can't read.

Well smart ass, I wasn't the only one. Answer was still the same anyway.

[fastdruid]

Having it tick over at idle will wear down the cams more.

True.

Heaviest load and hence worst wear is at tickover and then when cold also has the least protection. Everyone thinks that low rpm is best but there is a sweet spot (that depends on bike) of where there is the best compromise between wear, oil supply and getting warmed as quick as possible. I have no idea on the SV (possibly 4k) but its about 6k for an NC30/35[1]. Everyone just assumes that its bad to have the engine 'screaming' at 4k when cold but that's not necessarily the case.

Druid

[1] According to HRC

[-Ralph-]

LOL can't believe this thread has reached 7 pages, I have decided I do what is needed when with it, if I need to use it for the day I will if I don't I walk. Simples.

That's just the sign of a good thread mate. We like to get people arguing, sorry talking! ;)

You'll get used to it on here. People (me included) will carry on posting in a thread long after it has serviced it's initial purpose. If you've finished with it, and don't want to read or post in it anymore, just click unsubscribe and move on.

Other people will pick it up in searches and read it long after you and I have forgotten about it.

[Sid Squid]

If both are poor options, what is the right thing to do then?
Not use your bike for a two mile journey.

But, as I've said through all of the threads on this subject, if that's what you need to do with your bike then that's what you need to do with your bike.

There is no way to get the engine to full temperature on such a short journey, and that's an end of it. If you have no alternative at the very least you should take it out for a full heat up as often as is possible, and changing the oil more often would also be a wise precaution.

If it were me I'd walk the two miles.

[Old Git]

change to hotter plugs. works on my falco up to temp within about 90 seconds. choke comes off by the end of my road. Simples

[Richie]

get up earlier, and go for a 15 miles rideout out of your way... make the most of it :0)

[-Ralph-]

get up earlier, and go for a 15 miles rideout out of your way... make the most of it :0)

Trouble is that would cost about £2 a day in fuel, or £500 a year. That pays for trading in for a new SV every 4 years, and not worrying about engine damage.

[yorkie_chris]

But which is more fun?

[-Ralph-]

But which is more fun?

That depends who's in the bed you need to get out of 20 mins earlier :mrgreen:

[BoomBoomBox]

Bike should idle at about 1400 rpm. If its at that, surely its fine? Although oil wouldnt be up to temp :\