7-9th JULY, site bunks booked out recently.

[dizzyblonde]

OK peeps, have rung the site this morning, and unfortunately a school has booked out the bunkhouses for 1&2nd July and the 7-9th weekend.

SORRY FOLKS, this does happen, and I only spoke to the site the week before:mad:

I'm not sure how this affects our voting, as obviously we need the bunkhouses, as these are essential to some of us.

SO far, the other dates in July are free.


DISCUSS>

[Bibio]

bloody school kids.

looks like the date voting needs to get a move on folks.......

[dizzyblonde]

YUP. Fraid so, this is what happens when we want to give people chance to vote on a choice. Its soddin typical. I rang them to let them know it was looking likely to be that weekend, but we'd know for certain by the 1st.

Obviously some peeps voted for that, because they can't make it any other weekend, but I'm afraid, if theres 40 people that prefer to sleep in the bunkhouses, we have to go with those voters.

[gruntygiggles]

Should that date not now be removed from the poll then as it was a clear winner?

[gruntygiggles]

Yeah it sucks Diz. I thought you were lucky to get that many dates to choose from TBH. We only had a few to pick from last year.

The proposal is fab, so whenever it is, I'll be there having a blast :-)

[Messie]

Oh dear.

I think I can amend the poll to remove this week end. If I can't I'll start a new poll, but that will just lengthen the delay.

Give me a few minutes ...

[dizzyblonde]

I'd rather not prolong the voting time, as it will only allow(sods law) other parties to book weekends. **** happens, but the campsite is very popular, and they start to get booked up quickly for next year.

[Messie]

OK done. The 7-9th dates are no longer an option on the poll.
And as it was a mutliple option poll I don't think there's any need to redistribute the votes that were cast for this date.

[Stig]

I think your wrong to remove that date option. You should have kept the date, made people aware the bunkhouse would not be available for that weekend, reset the poll and let everyone vote again with the end date of the poll the same.

THAT would have been a fair way of doing it. What you have effectively done is remove the dates in favour of the few people who would have wanted to use the bunkhouse. You have not taken into consideration the reason why that date had the most votes.

[dizzyblonde]

oh:confused:
I didn't ask for it to be removed......just to for us to discuss what to next!
The bunkhouses are pretty essential to the deciding vote though.

[Messie]

Si - many, if not most, of the people who voted for that date, also voted for other dates.

Starting a new poll will confuse many, and leave out many who thought they'd done what they needed to do.

I think many people see an alternative to camping as essential.

[fizzwheel]

The bunkhouses are pretty essential to the deciding vote though.

Are they, well they are if you want to stay in them I guess. I know that the majority normally camp. But it would be interesting to know how many people utilised the bunkhouses for AR10.

[dizzyblonde]

I'm judging it on all the discussions in threads relating to the AR11. One of them in the PM regional, made it clear, people wanted alternatives to camping. Judging by the popularity of wigwams(yes I know its a different event) in the GMs, theres a lot that use them, also upon reading last years threads for the AR10, I am only assuming this alternate to camping is very popular.
I too would be interested in how many people would use the bunkhouses. Also on the same token perhaps those that used the hotel for B&B at AR10 would possibly be going for bunkhouses, as there aren't many B&B rooms on site. How many people used the facility at AR10?

[Messie]

I think the hotel, hostel rooms and others were quite polular for AR10. I seem to remember someone saying the place was full.

Maybe GG has the figures?

[timwilky]

For me, Proper accommodation is essential. It would be my intention to book B&B as soon as the date is known.

[Viney]

OK peeps, have rung the site this morning, and unfortunately a school has booked out the bunkhouses for 1&2nd July and the 7-9th weekend.

SORRY FOLKS, this does happen, and I only spoke to the site the week before:mad:

I'm not sure how this affects our voting, as obviously we need the bunkhouses, as these are essential to some of us.

SO far, the other dates in July are free.


DISCUSS>So that date is cancelled affecting the majority vote due to the fact the bunkhouses are not available. How many poeple were bunking down in there anyway?

I think that it should still be a goer for that date.

[Stig]

Well it doesn't matter now does it. The decision has been made. Date withdrawn. Like it or lump it.

Whatever!!!!

[dizzyblonde]

oiiii....I aren't the one that cancelled the vote on the poll, nor did I ask for it to be cancelled......WHICH is clear to see

''not sure how this affects our voting

Discuss''

is what I said.

[orose]

Can I just chuck in a request for calm... all that we're saying is that the bunks aren't available on that date. If that is a dealbreaker for people who've voted for that weekend, then we'll try and find alternatives that they can make work. I understand there is a youth hostel nearby that we can investigate, and I'm sure that isn't the only alternative in the area.

[gruntygiggles]

I think your wrong to remove that date option. You should have kept the date, made people aware the bunkhouse would not be available for that weekend, reset the poll and let everyone vote again with the end date of the poll the same.

THAT would have been a fair way of doing it. What you have effectively done is remove the dates in favour of the few people who would have wanted to use the bunkhouse. You have not taken into consideration the reason why that date had the most votes.


Good point...didn't think of that!

[gruntygiggles]

Right, I have answers...

20 hotel rooms were used and I believe most of those were double occupancy
8 people stayed in the dorms

so...you're looking at 40-48 people not camping and opting for hotel/B&B/Dorms and don't forget, Pete and Lissa stayed at a B&B off site as well, so possibly as many as 50 people not camping.

[Stig]

There are quite a few that used the Hotel and Dorms who would have camped had the those alternative options not been there. Just because those people did use the dorms and Hotel, that isn't stating categorically they would not camp. I stand by what I posted. The dates should have remained with a caveat stating the dorms would be unavailable for that weekend.

[gruntygiggles]

There are quite a few that used the Hotel and Dorms who would have camped had the those alternative options not been there. Just because those people did use the dorms and Hotel, that isn't stating categorically they would not camp. I stand by what I posted. The dates should have remained with a caveat stating the dorms would be unavailable for that weekend.

Agree....that's why I said opting for hotel/dorms...doesn;t mean they won't camp. If I remember correctly, I think there were half a dozen people or so that contacted me that really didn't want to camp...so they just called and booked their rooms early to secure them.

No reason they can't do that again for AR11.

AR10 was just a very convenient venue for having those options available. I There has never been such a need for other accommodation in the past, so a few B&B rooms and maybe a local B&B or two should be fine.

[dizzyblonde]

Right, I have answers...

20 hotel rooms were used and I believe most of those were double occupancy
8 people stayed in the dorms

so...you're looking at 40-48 people not camping and opting for hotel/B&B/Dorms and don't forget, Pete and Lissa stayed at a B&B off site as well, so possibly as many as 50 people not camping.

So, if we are to 'assume' those sort of numbers opt for the 'alternative' to camping....thus fills the 40 available spaces in the bunkhouses available. Those bunkhouses sleep both 4 persons and 6 persons, Plus there are 6 B&B rooms onsite, doubles and a single from the top of my head.

There is a Youth Hostel in Ingleton, and another 2 B&Bs in Austwick, theres many a B&B in Settle.....but most prefer to be a little nearer. I have reccyed these once, and have said so in my first proposal thread.

Although cancellin the option for 6-9th July, you also have to think about this scenario....do we reallly want to just opt for a field, without alternative accomodation, thus removing some 40 odd potential orgers from our event?
Also do we really want to be told to be kept quiet by teachers who are responsible for 40 school children using the bunkhouses on that particular weekend?

[Stig]

So, if we are to 'assume' those sort of numbers opt for the 'alternative' to camping....thus fills the 40 available spaces in the bunkhouses available. Those bunkhouses sleep both 4 persons and 6 persons, Plus there are 6 B&B rooms onsite, doubles and a single from the top of my head.

There is a Youth Hostel in Ingleton, and another 2 B&Bs in Austwick, theres many a B&B in Settle.....but most prefer to be a little nearer. I have reccyed these once, and have said so in my first proposal thread.

Although cancellin the option for 6-9th July, you also have to think about this scenario....do we reallly want to just opt for a field, without alternative accomodation, thus removing some 40 odd potential orgers from our event?
Also do we really want to be told to be kept quiet by teachers who are responsible for 40 school children using the bunkhouses on that particular weekend?

Allowing people to vote for themselves would have given the answer without hassles, complications, arguments or discussions. Simples.

[gruntygiggles]

So, if we are to 'assume' those sort of numbers opt for the 'alternative' to camping....thus fills the 40 available spaces in the bunkhouses available. Those bunkhouses sleep both 4 persons and 6 persons, Plus there are 6 B&B rooms onsite, doubles and a single from the top of my head.

There is a Youth Hostel in Ingleton, and another 2 B&Bs in Austwick, theres many a B&B in Settle.....but most prefer to be a little nearer. I have reccyed these once, and have said so in my first proposal thread.

Although cancellin the option for 6-9th July, you also have to think about this scenario....do we reallly want to just opt for a field, without alternative accomodation, thus removing some 40 odd potential orgers from our event?
Also do we really want to be told to be kept quiet by teachers who are responsible for 40 school children using the bunkhouses on that particular weekend?

It wouldn't remove 40 odd people Lou.

If you have 6 B&B rooms, so long as the people that want them know that and book early, then they'll be fine. Most of the people chose the B&B option purely because it was there but have happily camped in the past!

Personally, I'd just start a new poll, put up when the dorms are and are not available and then allow people to make a new, informed choice, but make a short poll to be timely!

[Messie]

I didn't put my vote in for the venue because both options were equally good in my opinion. However if one of the venue options had been for a place without alternatives to camping then that would not have got my vote and the one with choices would have done.

If people want to offer a venue now that does not have alternatives to camping then I suggest that we need a new poll to choose where we have the AR11. That is the only logical answer. If Dizzy can look at the alternative accomondation options and put them forward then fine; at least we know what's there.

Several people who voted for this critical week end have voted for other dates as well. They may have done so in the belief that the accomodation was available on all dates. Knowing the bunkhouse is unavailable on a date may have affected their choices.

I think the current date should be closed and another set up when we have a little more information

[gruntygiggles]

My post was just to make clear that only a few of those that chose the alternative option would not have attended if it was not available. Lou has said that there are 6 B&B rooms and nearby B&B's so I don't consider this date to be one that does not have alternatives to camping. It does. So yes, would be good to have an idea of what B&Bs are close by

[dizzyblonde]

Like I said, all the dates above, were available at the time the poll was put up.
Unfortunately, another party has booked all the bunkhouses on that particular weekend, which poses an issue to some.
The site owner has said that the other dates are still fine.....but don't expect someone not to come along and book them, as it is a campsite. The dates put forward were on the belief they were available, I am not a xmas fairy that can stop the world booking something from under us in the meantime.

Whys is the only logical answer, to re poll a venue for the AR11?

I have already posted in the original proposal where alternative accomodation is, but if I have to clarify it again in another thread, then so be it. I shall do it when the poll has closed for the dates, and the site has confirmed the booking. Orose is to be going up to the site after the poll has closed.

[gruntygiggles]

Like I said, all the dates above, were available at the time the poll was put up.
Unfortunately, another party has booked all the bunkhouses on that particular weekend, which poses an issue to some.
The site owner has said that the other dates are still fine.....but don't expect someone not to come along and book them, as it is a campsite. The dates put forward were on the belief they were available, I am not a xmas fairy that can stop the world booking something from under us in the meantime.

Whys is the only logical answer, to re poll a venue for the AR11?

I have already posted in the original proposal where alternative accomodation is, but if I have to clarify it again in another thread, then so be it. I shall do it when the poll has closed for the dates, and the site has confirmed the booking. Orose is to be going up to the site after the poll has closed.


Lou...if other dates get booked up, that's just the way the cookie crumbles. Like you say, there is no way of holding all the dates and making them wait on us. The AR has always been a camping weekend and having alternatives on site has been a bonus and that is what you have found for us. :-)

No idea why there would be a need to re-poll on a venue.

Yorkshire got voted in, it's just the dates now...I don't think this is that big of a deal...just a case of letting people know. As people can't change their votes, a new poll for dates is, as I see it the logical option as it allows people to amend their dates if they wish.

[SoulKiss]

I didn't put my vote in for the venue because both options were equally good in my opinion. However if one of the venue options had been for a place without alternatives to camping then that would not have got my vote and the one with choices would have done.

If people want to offer a venue now that does not have alternatives to camping then I suggest that we need a new poll to choose where we have the AR11. That is the only logical answer. If Dizzy can look at the alternative accomondation options and put them forward then fine; at least we know what's there.

Several people who voted for this critical week end have voted for other dates as well. They may have done so in the belief that the accomodation was available on all dates. Knowing the bunkhouse is unavailable on a date may have affected their choices.

I think the current date should be closed and another set up when we have a little more information

Thats no good either - either site could fill up EVERY weekend between the start and end of a new vote on where to have it, then the new vote for dates...

I don't care where it is, have little care for when it is.

All this thread proves is that give too many options, and have too many variables and you get "discussions"

Only way to plan something like this is for someone to say "Its at place X on date Y, be there or be square", and not open every little detail to public vote.

However the AR organisation has rolled on from that being seen as acceptable.

So all I can say is "Calm down dear, it's only an AR detail"

[gruntygiggles]

Thats no good either - either site could fill up EVERY weekend between the start and end of a new vote on where to have it, then the new vote for dates...

I don't care where it is, have little care for when it is.

All this thread proves is that give too many options, and have too many variables and you get "discussions"

Only way to plan something like this is for someone to say "Its at place X on date Y, be there or be square", and not open every little detail to public vote.

However the AR organisation has rolled on from that being seen as acceptable.

So all I can say is "Calm down dear, it's only an AR detail"

Careful Dave...that sounds like a bit of common sense there...lol

[Messie]

There is no need for a new venue poll.

There is need for a date poll for the venue as it was originally proposed.

We can squabble about polls open/closed/changed all we like.

In the end we just have to choose it.

Oh and SK Dave - we tried that once - just telling people where is was. That caused problems too! :)

[SoulKiss]

Careful Dave...that sounds like a bit of common sense there...lol

Thats the problem with posting from work, still got my calm sensible head on...

Will try and come up with a better response when I get home and have had my dinner :)

[SoulKiss]

There is no need for a new venue poll.

There is need for a date poll for the venue as it was originally proposed.

We can squabble about polls open/closed/changed all we like.

In the end we just have to choose it.

Oh and SK Dave - we tried that once - just telling people where is was. That caused problems too! :)

See the second last line of my post - I covered that :p

H- See me after class :) ( H- as in the letter missing from the word Teacer) :p

[gruntygiggles]

I think a new poll with all orginal dates, just with a caveat for the 7th-9th July that it is B&B only, no bunkhouse. Those that don't want to camp can then call and book the B&B rooms that are on site.

Simples :-)

[dizzyblonde]

Why not just get supermod to undo what has been done in haste?

Don't forget to keep the poll open for the same time, more time = more time for other parties to book the bunkhouses, reducing our accomodation variety, and us back to square one.

Jeez, you try to make it fair for everyone, and theres always a bloody bun fight.

And don't forget to add, that on the 7-9th July, we will be sharing the site with 40 school kids and their teachers.

[fizzwheel]

I can't put back the votes that were there as I dont know how many it was.

Also knowing that the bunkhouse is now not available that weekend, would that change how people would want to vote. Once the forum software has registered that you have voted, you can then not go back into the poll and change your vote.

[gruntygiggles]

New poll with same end date then?

[orose]

I'm not sure about having all of us mixing with the schoolkids, so I'm going to have a rethink and get back to you all.

[Messie]

It would definately be a busman's holiday for me lol!

[-Ralph-]

200 people at the last AR, we'll assume the same will go this year
47 people voted in the poll that has just been closed
10 of those voted for 6 or more dates out of 8, which means whichever one was chosen there's a greater than 75% chance they could make it.

It's amazing what a copy & paste job into Excel can do in a few minutes innit! :-)

37/200 = 18.5%

Which means about 80% of the people planning to attend the AR haven't voted, or they could make any date.

Probably because like me they have no idea what they are doing next July or August, and they are just waiting to see what date wins. Once they know what date wins they will decide nearer the time whether they can go.

All the poll is doing, is allowing a select few who can plan that far ahead, choose the date on behalf of the majority.

If you did choose a date out of a hat and say "that's it!", a few of those 18% may complain, but there would still certainly be less of those 18% unable to attend, than amongst the 80% odd who couldn't plan that far ahead, due to other commitments such as childcare, work, or simply because they haven't booked their 2011 summer holiday yet.

The poll is hyper-democratic red tape IMO.

Just my 2p. Yes, I know I'm sad. ;-)

[-Ralph-]

Oops, I've missed a couple of dates out of these stats, but the pattern is the same, you get the picture.

[orose]

It was still interesting from another point of view, though... it was starting to look like the school holidays were not the preference of the majority, which suprised me somewhat. There is nothing wrong with being sad though.

Just as a heads-up though, the aim is to start a new poll next week - time to take a look at your calendars ;)

[dizzyblonde]

Sad...no....Geek...yes :)

[Bluefish]

Oops, I've missed a couple of dates out of these stats, but the pattern is the same, you get the picture.


Yeah, loads of peeps can't be bothered to vote, or don't know the vote is being held ;)

[missyburd]

just pick 3 dates and stick with them. If people want to attend the event they will shuffle plans accordingly. Too much choice is a bad thing sometimes! And as Ralph pointed out, most of us are not organised enough to know what we're doing july next year so a week here or there won't make a difference. I personally don't want to spend my weekend sharing toilets with a load of kids but I'm sure they'd think the same of us :lol:

Or maybe it would be an idea to pick a weekend and stick with it for every AR in the future to prevent this sort of thing happening in the future? Is there much difference between the dates of previous ARs? Too many polls spoil the plans :-P

[metalhead19]

just pick 3 dates and stick with them. If people want to attend the event they will shuffle plans accordingly.

+1 to that suggestion. More likely to get a better idea of the date people want from a small selection.
Although saying that, i cant vote in the poll as i have no idea when i could be free that far in advance. :rolleyes:

[Stig]

There was nothing wrong with the original poll. It just needed resetting due to the bunkhouses not being available on the first date which the majority had selected.

As for people not knowing in advance if they will be available, well I would suggest there are plenty that do know. In fact I would guess there are a few that need an early date so as to be able to book it in advance to ensure they can attend.

[Messie]

Well anyway, a new improved poll for dates will be up soon :)

Everyone who wants to will be able to vote for the new options.

Clearly it is not possible to please all the people all the time

[gruntygiggles]

Clearly it is never possible to please all the people all the time

Edited for you hun...it's a PITA sometimes but yes, we're all different and always want different things :rolleyes:

We had 160 this year, but I think that was mainly down to a certain someone pulling the crowds for us. Lets hope all those new AR attendees do it again though :-)

[Ed]

D'you know, smug git me is sometimes glad I lost:rolleyes:

I didn't vote for exactly the reason that Ralph posted - ie no idea what I'm doing next summer now, so wait and see.

[-Ralph-]

I'm not saying don't have a poll, I'm just pointing out that it's a futile exercise for the majority. If nothing else a poll means nobody can moan at the organisers about what the date ends up being, because they had the chance to vote. So if another poll saves the organisers that stress, but serves no other real purpose, then stick one up. Those who don't need a poll, but just need to be told a date, either don't need to vote on it, or they can do the completely pointless and vote for every option.

[fizzwheel]

If nothing else a poll means nobody can moan at the organisers about what the date ends up being, because they had the chance to vote.

Exactly why it is done the way it is.

[-Ralph-]

Exactly why it is done the way it is.

Yeah, I realise that, just a shame we have to go through that red tape, otherwise toys start flying out of prams.

Can you imagine if your workplace had to have a poll to decide what date the xmas party should be?

Maybe Kate and Wills should have had a poll to see what date was best for the nation to have an extra public holiday. An extra couple of telephone numbers at the end of X Factor would have done the job :lol:

[fizzwheel]

Its not red tape though. During one bout of discussing the way the forum is run. The feedback was that people wanted to feel more involved in how the AR / Events were organised and choosen, the best way to do that is to open up the discussion / process / decisions to everybody that uses the forum.

That is what as a team of mods / admins we were asked to do by the forum as a collective, which its why its done this way, primarily because "you" as a group wanted it that way.

As for christmas parties, why not, at my workplace, we vote for where we would like to go and then we vote on the dates its held on, once the venue is selected. It works very well and has seen an end to the complaining about one or two people making all the decisions that our christmas party venue selection has seen in the past.

[gruntygiggles]

Yeah, I don't see it as red tape. It's the way that we, as a collective asked for it to be done and it makes thing a whole lot better, not worse.

[Messie]

It's also quite handy to have an idea of when most people can make it. We want to enable as many to come as possible. It's not a perfect system by any means, but it's better than no system


BTW - I think it's just got to be 29th April. Long week end, empty roads - fun times :)

[gruntygiggles]

Well, I'm pretty sure Lou and Orose will speak to the venue just before they put up a new date poll, so we'll have up to date info and this can be done and dusted to let them just carry on with it all. :-)

[Messie]

Indeed!

[Smudge]

I think your wrong to remove that date option. You should have kept the date, made people aware the bunkhouse would not be available for that weekend, reset the poll and let everyone vote again with the end date of the poll the same.

THAT would have been a fair way of doing it. What you have effectively done is remove the dates in favour of the few people who would have wanted to use the bunkhouse. You have not taken into consideration the reason why that date had the most votes.

100% agree with that, Jooped and that was the only sunny weekend we have too!!!

[-Ralph-]

That depends on what your definition of red tape is. If it's only done so that folk can't moan and throw toys, then IMO it's red tape. Just an unnecessary process that we have to go through to keep some people sweet. Like I said, I don't really care, I won't be voting on it.

[Smudge]

I voted for the first weekend simply for the weather as the last few years march and april have been sunnier and july august rainny.

[Messie]

That depends on what your definition of red tape is. If it's only done so that folk can't moan and throw toys, then IMO it's red tape. Just an unnecessary process that we have to go through to keep some people sweet. Like I said, I don't really care, I won't be voting on it.

So why keep on commenting then?

Keep well clear and let those that do want a say get on with it

[-Ralph-]

So why keep on commenting then?

Keep well clear and let those that do want a say get on with it

Am I not allowed to express an opinion on it then? :rolleyes:

Whether I'm voting or care about the date, doesn't change whether or not I think the poll is useful or a load of red tape.

I'll shut up now and get me coat :smt039

[fizzwheel]

Am I not allowed to express an opinion on it then?

Yes you are. Which you have done. Do you think that in order to try and get AR11 decided upon that we might move on from the issue over what the process should be, otherwise we'll go around in circles and it'll never get done.

[-Ralph-]

Do you think that in order to try and get AR11 decided upon that we might move on from the issue over what the process should be

I'll shut up now and get me coat :smt039

Can we have a new emotion representing zippy from rainbow please?

[-Ralph-]

:silent:

Actually, that one'll do.

[littleoldman]

The problem with the best sites is that they are popular. A lot of people have family reasons for particular dates and I'm sure we all understand this, however speed is now important if we are to have a successfull outcome (good time). I did'nt vote as its not important to me. To get a good venue (and this is good) we need to move fast. Regards Mal

[monkey]

Wo ist de newer datum pole?

[Messie]

Wo ist de newer datum pole?

Under several feet of snow!