Caliper questions

[hongman]

I took my front calipers off today, for a complete overhaul, reaady for spring.

The right hand side came apart like a doddle - pin, pistons, everything just came apart like clockwork :)

The left hand side however...pistons are stuck. I've mangled them now anyway by being too hamfisted, there are pit marks all on the inside of the pistons. But try as I might my puny arms cannot muster enough strenth to get them out :(

I'd say they are about half way. They turn fine, just wont come out any further.

Needless to say, no access to an air compressor or anything like that.

Any tips? Dont care if its destructive to the pistons, I'll be getting new ones anyway.

Some other quick yes/no questions:

1. Can the piston seals be reused, if not damaged? I havent looked yet but if they are peanuts I will prob change them anyway.
2. Banjo washer - same as above
3. The two dust boots - as from the Haynes, it says: "Apply a smear of silicone based grease to the boots and fit them into their bores in the caliper. Is this a really bad way of saying to grease the pins the boots cover?

Caliper is swimming in a tub of Gunk at the moment, Halfrauds were out of Brake cleaner and said this would work also :o

Thanks

[barwel1992]

1. Can the piston seals be reused, if not damaged? I havent looked yet but if they are peanuts I will prob change them anyway.
2. Banjo washer - same as above
3. The two dust boots - as from the Haynes, it says: "Apply a smear of silicone based grease to the boots and fit them into their bores in the caliper. Is this a really bad way of saying to grease the pins the boots cover?

1: yes in most cases they can
2: should be replaced but i have just used the same one before
3:Yes lol

ohh and if the inside of the piston is scratched that doesn't matter its the out side that slides over the seals that matters, and when removing the pistons put a bit of 3in1 in the grove where the seal is and rotate them out dont just pull them straight out as its harder to do like that

HTH


PS clean the seals in warm soapy water then inspect, dont use brake cleaner it will dry them out, if you have a dish washer strip the calliper's down so there is no seals or any thing just the body and bung them in the washer with no tablet (or dishes) and wash away lol

should look nice a clean like these with no gunk in the bottoms of the bore

http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/P1040587.jpg

[Jordy]

I'm no expert but maybe you could reconnect the caliper to the brake line and force the piston out hydraulically?

1. The seals can be reused if they're not damaged, but smear them with rubber grease before reinstalling. New ones are on wemoto, not sure on the exact price.
2. copper washers each side of the banjo? I would replace with new personally.
3. Copper grease the bolts, bleed nipples, retaining pins, maybe some rubber grease on the bleed nipple covers.

[hongman]

Cheers!

The outside of the pistons have a few marks as well :( I'd probably reuse them if it werent such a vital safety part ;)

I'll try some 3-in-1 overnight and try again tomorrow.

The other caliper is in Gunk now with seals in still...if I take them out now would they be ok to reuse?

No dishwasher, I'll have to do it the old fashioned way :(

[hongman]

I'm no expert but maybe you could reconnect the caliper to the brake line and force the piston out hydraulically?

1. The seals can be reused if they're not damaged, but smear them with rubber grease before reinstalling. New ones are on wemoto, not sure on the exact price.
2. copper washers each side of the banjo? I would replace with new personally.
3. Copper grease the bolts, bleed nipples, retaining pins, maybe some rubber grease on the bleed nipple covers.

Cheers Jordy.

The manual says to lube the seals with clean brake fluid...are you mistaken?

I cant use the hydraulics system on the bike (well I could, but its a bit too late now...) - I;d have to refit the whole lot and to be honest I'm too lazy. Its cold out :D

Copper banjo washers are like 20p so I will get new ones anyway.

They arent going back on til spring, so no real rush.

[barwel1992]

i use red rubber grease as well, but you can use brake fluid

[Jordy]

Cheers Jordy.

The manual says to lube the seals with clean brake fluid...are you mistaken?

I cant use the hydraulics system on the bike (well I could, but its a bit too late now...) - I;d have to refit the whole lot and to be honest I'm too lazy. Its cold out :D

Copper banjo washers are like 20p so I will get new ones anyway.

They arent going back on til spring, so no real rush.

Yeah mate from what I understand you just smear a small amount around the seals or in the recess grooves where they sit, also smear some on the sides of the pistons before reinstalling. This is information I've gathered from here, not from personal experience btw. http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=159803&highlight=rear+caliper&page=2

[Teejayexc]

Main thing is to get the grooves where the seals fit really clean. They collect a 'whitish' deposit in there and stop the seals seating properly. I find a dentists plastic scraper , don't use metal ones!, are the best tool for the job.

[barwel1992]

Main thing is to get the grooves where the seals fit really clean. They collect a 'whitish' deposit in there and stop the seals seating properly. I find a dentists plastic scraper , don't use metal ones!, are the best tool for the job.

i use fine wire wool for that job

[hongman]

Is copper grease the same as, or a suitable alternative to "rubber grease"?

[danf1234]

Is copper grease the same as, or a suitable alternative to "rubber grease"?


No

[barwel1992]

no copper grease will score the piston and damage the seals

[andrewsmith]

Red Rubber grease is about £7 for 100g on ebay!

Got a pot last week

[barwel1992]

^ thats what i paid for mine, its castrol stuff and smells nice lol

[hongman]

Ah lol. Silly me.

I best get ordering then!

[husky03]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RED-RUBBER-GREASE-Made-UK-United-Oil-Products-/110608162879?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item19c0c2a03f

this stuff mate -dogs ********

[yorkie_chris]

Cheers!

The outside of the pistons have a few marks as well :( I'd probably reuse them if it werent such a vital safety part ;)

I'll try some 3-in-1 overnight and try again tomorrow.

The other caliper is in Gunk now with seals in still...if I take them out now would they be ok to reuse?

No dishwasher, I'll have to do it the old fashioned way :(

What you are supposed to do (if you had read my posts on the matter ;)) is do one side at once, so when t'other is back together you move to the other side, bleed it up (ish) and use hydraulics and a G clamp to pop them out.

Most emphatically DO NOT REUSE THOSE SEALS. It is not worth risking it now you have possibly damaged them with degreaser.

Cheers Jordy.

The manual says to lube the seals with clean brake fluid...are you mistaken?

I cant use the hydraulics system on the bike (well I could, but its a bit too late now...) - I;d have to refit the whole lot and to be honest I'm too lazy. Its cold out :D

Copper banjo washers are like 20p so I will get new ones anyway.

They arent going back on til spring, so no real rush.

He is on about the rubber boots, silicon grease is OK on them and on seals but it is IMO too slippy for seals. Rubber grease is good.

Do not use brake fluid on them, haynes is full of ****. The brake fluid crystallises, expands behind the seals and actually causes brake drag. Better to put them in dry than use brake fluid.

You can reuse banjos washers unless they are damaged for whatever reason or refuse to seal.



To get your piston out, put a big cable tie or better yet a jubilee clip around it and use pipe grips over that.

[yorkie_chris]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RED-RUBBER-GREASE-Made-UK-United-Oil-Products-/110608162879?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item19c0c2a03f

this stuff mate -dogs ********

Have you used the castrol stuff? Is this any different?

[husky03]

Have you used the castrol stuff? Is this any different?

found this stuff goes further mate-same price for 500 though-personal pref

[yorkie_chris]

Might give it a try next, so far this pot has done probably 50 calipers and there's plenty left.

[hongman]

I just bought that grease :D

To be honest YC, I didnt actually plan to do the calipers today, it kind of happened spontaneously which is why I didnt do any reading up before hand. I have originally got the bike out to test my replacement snazzy lever (which is still the wrong thickness....) when I discovered I could barely move the bike becuase the brakes had seized up. So I just kinda got on with it :D

So this is where I'm at:

Both calipers cleaned in Gunk and then hot soapy water. 1 set of pistons look fine, other is in the bin. I am replacing all seals just to be safe, for the sake of a fiver.

Apart from the pistons and the recess where they sit, the rest isnt immaculately clean, but decent enough imo. I can handle the calipers and stuff now without my hands becoming dirty...thats good enough for me :p

I'm replacing the banko washer as well, just becuase they are 18p.

Now:

Assuming I finished these within the next week, should I put them straight back on the bike, or keep em indoors?

Bike is sat outside with a cover. The loose brake lines are covered with a plactic food bag and zip tied. Is it ok to leave it like this all winter, or should I get the calipers back on and seal the system up?

This was nowhere near as complicated as I thought it would be by the way. Least I know I can do them myself in the future lol.

[yorkie_chris]

Get it back on now, if you service them right it sitting outside with a bit of wet on it won't do any harm.

[hongman]

Ok, will do.

I dont actually think it was the calipers causing the brakes to drag anyway - they weren't in as bad a shape as I thought. I think its the rust on the disc. But anyhoo.

Rear one next!

[barwel1992]

id just bring the whole system inside, refit when u want then bleed the brakes

makes no difference really

[hongman]

No space!

[yorkie_chris]

Better yet bring whole bike inside

[hongman]

Oh trust me, if I could, I so would.

[andrewsmith]

Ok, will do.

I dont actually think it was the calipers causing the brakes to drag anyway - they weren't in as bad a shape as I thought. I think its the rust on the disc. But anyhoo.

Rear one next!

Have fun with the rear

here's the q's (or some) on it

http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=159803

[hongman]

I'd love to get mine that shiny but just the thought of all that elbow grease makes me feel lethargic :D

[andrewsmith]

mine are getting the rattle can, as the rear is showing some marks of the 30k its done. Spent 30 mins with wet and dry cleaning the rear pistons

[hongman]

Wow, I'm nowhere near that committed lol. Just maintained and functional is all I want. Just having had them apart makes me feel better as the last reciept I have of a brake overhaul was like 5 or 6 years ago, so I has no idea what state they'd be in.

Was expecting seized pins at least, but only trouble was a set of pistons which could have been avoided if I was better prepared.

Must get some gloves in the future though, my hands are ruined from all the solvents!

[hongman]

Ok, lets hope I used the right grease in the right places!

RRG smeared on the seals, and refitted.*
RRG smeared on the pistons and refitted (anyone else find that ultra smooth tranistion of a nice clean piston going back in really satisfying?)
RRG smeared on the sliding braket pins, rubber boots refitted

Used rag to wipe clean the face of the piston edge that contacts the pad

Smeared (liberally) copper grease onto back of brake pad (not the whole pad, just the metal shim bit), and slotted into caliper

Refit static brake pad without any grease - it just sits there right?

A dollop of copper grease pushed into the hole that the end of the pin goes into

Copper greased pin, slid it in, wiped excess copper grease from fingers over the R-Clip and fit that

Copper greased bolts and screwed them in and out a few times

So...did I do it right?

*The bottom seal which is supposed to be tapered - I either have the wrong seals, or the taper is teeeeny, becuase no matter which way I looked at all 4, I wasn't 100% on which face was wider. I guessed, but its very possible I got it wrong.

What are the consequences? How do I check this bit properly?

Also, was I supposed to smear any on the "Pad Spring"?

Ta!

[yorkie_chris]

AFAIK the "taper" on the seal is just a haynes ****up.

[hongman]

Oh, thank god. Spent ages staring it to death.

How about the other bits YC? Did I do it right?

[yorkie_chris]

Sounds alright to me.

Only thing you did not mention is outside of rubber boot which goes through caliper body... it is good to put some RRG on that as they can corrode there and stop caliper from sliding freely on hangar.


Yes it is also normal to find pistons sliding into place satisfying :)

[hongman]

:D

Cheers!

I'll run some RRG on the outside of those boots as well before I fit them, after all this snow nonsense passes!

I'm well chuffed

[Bibio]

another little tip i have been using for years is to put some PTFE tape (plumbers tape) on the threads of the bleed nipples so when you come to bleed the brakes the brake fluid wont rise up threw the threads giving a better bleed and has the added bonus of making sure that the bleed nipples dont seize the next time you go to bleed the brakes.

dont cover the bottom bleed holes with tape, you only need to cover 2/3 of the threads leaving the bottom part untouched.

make sure you wind the tape (hold nipple in left hand and wind tape anticlockwise with a fair bit of tension then just pull to snap tape) so it wont unravel when you screw them in.

you only need 2-3 turns of tape.

roll the threaded part between your fingers when you have applied the tape so its nice and secure.

[hongman]

oo thanks for the tip Bib!

[Owenski]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RED-RUBBER-GREASE-Made-UK-United-Oil-Products-/110608162879?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item19c0c2a03f

this stuff mate -dogs ********

following your link, I bought some of this and it arrived this morning. This stuff should last me a lifetime! Nice work Husky.

[husky03]

should be all you'll ever need in that tub mate

[hongman]

Mm ok.

Reinstalled the fronts today and bled them through, lovely jubbly.

Took rear off, but this time left banjo on til caliper was off the bike so I could take out the pads and pump them out a bit. One piston is stuck, the other was doing all the movement.

Problem is, I cant get the god damn hex bolts out to split the caliper. Tried 3-in-1...think I really need a rachet hex rather than a t-hex tool which I'm using.

Maybe if I re-bolted it to the bike too....

:(

[hongman]

Oh and I lost the screw that holds the metal braket onto the front brake res...anyone got a spare? ;(

[barwel1992]

i all ways use a ratchet hex, i find they do less damage to the bolts and you can use more torque because of the ratchet size (leverage)

[andrewsmith]

The rear I split needed a ratchet hex. £5 from Halfords (3/8ths drive) and the new socket head bolts are £4 on ebay

[hongman]

Thanks.

Nothing like being prepared eh!

[andrewsmith]

mate I had to buy one to do the rear. You got a breaker bar or large torque wrench, as I had to use a 2ft breaker bar and it still took a lot of effort.

Which piston is stuck BTW?

[hongman]

Its the piston on the same side as the banjo bolt.

Halford trip tomorrow I guess...

[yorkie_chris]

If it is same side as banjo then knock piston out through banjo hole if you already split caliper.

I have had to drill a few caliper bolts out, they can seize badly. You can mix a bit of acetone and ATF for some very effective penetrating oil and let it soak into the bolt from the back. I think acetone is the ingredient they took out of it when penetrating oils started being sh*t a few years ago.

[andrewsmith]

If it is same side as banjo then knock piston out through banjo hole if you already split caliper.

I have had to drill a few caliper bolts out, they can seize badly. You can mix a bit of acetone and ATF for some very effective penetrating oil and let it soak into the bolt from the back. I think acetone is the ingredient they took out of it when penetrating oils started being sh*t a few years ago.

Easiest way is as YC said. Save damaging the piston with moe grips.

I think it was Acetone that was banned for penetrating oils, as it was Benzine that was banned as a degreaser

[yorkie_chris]

Never use mole grips on pistons, there is always a better way.

It was trike they banned as degreaser... trichloroethylene

[hongman]

Ah murder, hope no drilling is involved!

Good tip about the knocking piston out though :)

Pins/clips/other bolts were in fairly good nick actually, dirty but not seized in the slightest, and I could still see a good amount of copper grease on the caliper mount bolts, so I'd hope its last service was recentish.

We'll see tomorrow I guess!

[andrewsmith]

Won't ever use mole grips again. Footpump or a hammer is a lot easier :D
Stand corrected for banned degreasers.

[Sally]

Another here...

Bikes only got >2K on the clock, bought in August.

Has sat for a few weeks as Aberdeen resembled the north pole.

Took it home, and fixing it today, brakes aren't too bad.
There is some crud around pistons, but once I pumped them out a bit it was just on the edge, so cleaned it off with a small piece of wood. Copper grease on the two pins. That right? I am not completely splitting them as I don't think its needed, and I am not also bleeding the system.

Red rubber grease around the outside of the pistons?
I never used brake cleaner on this at all, as someone said on here that it damages the seals. Just used some WD40, that won't cause any damage will it?

Cheers

[barwel1992]

Another here...

Bikes only got >2K on the clock, bought in August.

Has sat for a few weeks as Aberdeen resembled the north pole.

Took it home, and fixing it today, brakes aren't too bad.
There is some crud around pistons, but once I pumped them out a bit it was just on the edge, so cleaned it off with a small piece of wood. Copper grease on the two pins. That right? I am not completely splitting them as I don't think its needed, and I am not also bleeding the system.

Red rubber grease around the outside of the pistons?
I never used brake cleaner on this at all, as someone said on here that it damages the seals. Just used some WD40, that won't cause any damage will it?

Cheers

well i will salute you if you can "split" pointy callipers :lol:

but yes copper grease on the pins rubber grease on the piston's (small amount)

i just use soapy water to clean them down or if im fully stripping down then stick them in the dish washer

brake cleaner dry's out the seals and they crack eventually, you can use it just be very careful with it and spray it on a cloth then apply it dont spray it direct on to the calliper

[yorkie_chris]

well i will salute you if you can "split" pointy callipers :lol:

A tenner says I can. :D

[barwel1992]

A tenner says I can. :D

haha what with a gas axe :p

or are you meaning the sliding bit ;)

[yorkie_chris]

I saying nowt about the possibility of putting them back together again afterwards :-P

[barwel1992]

I saying nowt about the possibility of putting them back together again afterwards :-P

rofl :p

[dirtydog]

Quick thread hijack here...

whats the best way to get a snapped bleed nipple out of a caliper (4 pot from GSXR srad) managed to snap it flush with the caliper when i was bleeding it through after servicing it #-o#-oI did manage to get it all bled nicely though using the banjo bolt instead :D

[barwel1992]

left handed drill, or use a easy out very very carefully

[andrewsmith]

Another here...

Bikes only got >2K on the clock, bought in August.

Has sat for a few weeks as Aberdeen resembled the north pole.

Took it home, and fixing it today, brakes aren't too bad.
There is some crud around pistons, but once I pumped them out a bit it was just on the edge, so cleaned it off with a small piece of wood. Copper grease on the two pins. That right? I am not completely splitting them as I don't think its needed, and I am not also bleeding the system.

Red rubber grease around the outside of the pistons?
I never used brake cleaner on this at all, as someone said on here that it damages the seals. Just used some WD40, that won't cause any damage will it?

Cheers

Don't use WD40 near the brakes (unless they're stripped and being washed out afterwards)

Sally, RRG (Red Rubber) around the pistons won't do out, best to strip the brakes clean them properly and RRG during assembly.

Rear is a case of splitting if its dragging and doing the same.

You running all weathers mate?

[andrewsmith]

well i will salute you if you can "split" pointy callipers :lol:

Tenner says I can in under 10 minutes.
Just done a seized curvy rear in 10 minutes piston out too.

[dirtydog]

left handed drill, or use a easy out very very carefully

Hmmmm rarely get a good outcome with easy outs. They should be called " it may work but more than likely it'll snap off and be a nightmare to get I outs"

[andrewsmith]

Hmmmm rarely get a good outcome with easy outs. They should be called " it may work but more than likely it'll snap off and be a nightmare to get I outs"

has it snapped flush in the casting?

[barwel1992]

Tenner says I can in under 10 minutes.
Just done a seized curvy rear in 10 minutes piston out too.

cough* cough* pointys have a solid sliding calliper's front and back so as i said id like to see you split a pointy calliper ;)

and from another post, sally has a pointy ...

[dirtydog]

has it snapped flush in the casting?


Yep

[barwel1992]

Yep

is it corroded in ?

if so i would heat it up, soak in penetrative and the get a left handed drill bit on it, hopefully it should screw it out while drilling it

[andrewsmith]

Yep

Would suggest a reverse tap and die, but that sounds stupid.

Errm could try contact adhesive'ing a screw driver to it, but that may fubar the caliper, or as barwel suggested

[dirtydog]

Not corroded in, I even put copper grease on it when I serviced the caliper so shouldn't be too tight in there

[yorkie_chris]

Careful drilling it if it comes to that, you don't want to knacker the seat, helps to have an intact nipple to compare depths.

You can TIG something to it and turn that, left handed drill is good too.


Tenner says I can in under 10 minutes.
Just done a seized curvy rear in 10 minutes piston out too.

Way to completely miss the joke there andrew

Would suggest a reverse tap and die, but that sounds stupid.

Errm could try contact adhesive'ing a screw driver to it, but that may fubar the caliper, or as barwel suggested

Do you actually think about this before you post it?

You could try gluing a screwdriver to it, but if the 6mm or so of steel didn't move it, what makes you think 2mm of brittle glue will make owt other than a mess?

[Sally]

Yeah I should stick to doing what I do best, and that isn't being on the tools...

Brakes are better, both pistons actually move now.
Shouldn't have used WD40, woops.

Couldnt do much with the rear, calliper bolts came off ok but the pin was stuck in.

[dirtydog]

You could try gluing a screwdriver to it, but if the 6mm or so of steel didn't move it, what makes you think 2mm of brittle glue will make owt other than a mess?


Oh you mean I shouldnt try this suggestion? ;)

I managed to snap it doing it up, was only using a tiny little spanner so didnt have huge amount of leverage on it. Knew I should've got new ones when I ordered the seals for the calipers :rolleyes:

[yorkie_chris]

You might have a chance with an easy out then. (might!)

[dirtydog]

You might have a chance with an easy out then. (might!)


I really do hate those bloody things! will need to go search my box of random bits to see if I can find one now :evil: (theyre not worthy of being in my tool box ;)

[dirtydog]

So do I go for stainless steel nipples to replace or just standard ones?

[dirtydog]

The offending nipple




http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x241/dirtydog88/f2602ea7.jpg

oh and thats not rust on it just dust from cutting MDF next to it

[BoltonSte]

Can you not stick the caliper in a vice and use a small flat bladed screw driver?

If it's not in tight, then coming at an angle with the screw driver, on the inside lip of the thread as if you were using a wood chisel may be enough to turn it.

that always leaves you the easy out option for later.

[wattyfred89]

I was going to start a thread just to express my pain but as you guys are talking brakes.....

New dust seals for my front pistons (little rubber rings that swell up, pop out and don't pop back in) £74!!!!!! :smt101

that is all

[husky03]

I was going to start a thread just to express my pain but as you guys are talking brakes.....

New dust seals for my front pistons (little rubber rings that swell up, pop out and don't pop back in) £74!!!!!! :smt101

that is all


you've been pumped hard then mate-complete rebuild seal kit from wemoto 50 quid

[husky03]

dd-i'd be getting a drill into that

[barwel1992]

I was going to start a thread just to express my pain but as you guys are talking brakes.....

New dust seals for my front pistons (little rubber rings that swell up, pop out and don't pop back in) £74!!!!!! :smt101

that is all

sorry mate you'v been bummed

[husky03]

I'm thinking its been more of a gang rape:(

[andrewsmith]

you've been bent over and been had!!

THey OE by anychance?


Husky, Q; you tired the STP brake caliper paint the in the past?

[husky03]

you've been bent over and been had!!

THey OE by anychance?


Husky, Q; you tired the STP brake caliper paint the in the past?


on cars mate but not the bike.

[andrewsmith]

on cars mate but not the bike.

might temp fate and do a rear with it. See how it faires

[leebex]

you've been pumped hard then mate-complete rebuild seal kit from wemoto 50 quid

is that all the seals to do both front calipers husky?

Need to get mine done and just pricing it up. A bike mech mate said he will do the job for me as I really dont fancy touching it myself.

[hongman]

Wemoto kits are both calipers

[husky03]

is that all the seals to do both front calipers husky?

Need to get mine done and just pricing it up. A bike mech mate said he will do the job for me as I really dont fancy touching it myself.


and rubber grease also-do it yourself mate-get the manual out and you'll walk it, then you'll never need to pay someone to do them again-to me its what makes the sv a special bike, you can learn how to do jobs yourself and before you know it you'll be a pretty competent diy bike mechanic, and the sv is the bike to learn on.

[hongman]

Ditto - if I can do it, anyone can. Seriously.

[husky03]

Ditto - if I can do it, anyone can. Seriously.


and all he's after now is the diy wisdom tooth extractor plan:smt039

[hongman]

I heard an easy-out is the way to go!

[husky03]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgsfKusOGts

[wattyfred89]

I'm thinking its been more of a gang rape:(


i wont be sitting down for weeks! :(

[monkey]

another little tip i have been using for years is to put some PTFE tape (plumbers tape) on the threads of the bleed nipples so when you come to bleed the brakes the brake fluid wont rise up threw the threads giving a better bleed and has the added bonus of making sure that the bleed nipples dont seize the next time you go to bleed the brakes.


Nice little tip which I used today. Coupled with a syringe to back feed new lines and a motrax little bleeder and it made brake bleeding so much of a better experience than I'm used to.
:D