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Law advice: Theft of a tank
At the last round of the championship, a rider who I am friends with come off and smashed up his bike at craner curves. We helped him get the bike ridable again (as anyone would in a friendly paddock) and as his tank was caved in, I lent him ("him" being the rider - not the owner of the bike) my tank in order that he could race in the next few races
After the round, the rider took the bike home and returned it to the motorcycle company that own the bike. informing them that the tank was borrowed and will need removing and returning to me. That was 5 weeks ago. This has now come to a head where the motorcycle company are refusing to return my tank and have in fact sold the bike (along with my tank)
Now, since the chain that the tank took was Me - Rider - Motorcycle company, I have checked that:
a) The rider does not owe the motorcycle company and monies or services
b) that the motorcycle company were aware that it was not theirs or the riders tank
No monies were owed, and the company were made aware both on the day the bike came back and several times since that the tank was borrowed and needed returning
The company effectively are guilty of theft as (since they have also sold the bike) they have taken the tank from me where there was no existing agreement for them to do so, with the intention of permanently depriving me of it
Any advice of this from people who actually know the law would be really helpful :)
plllllllllllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaasssssssss sse
tactcom7
30-11-10, 11:56 AM
Do you have any proof in writing from the bike company that they were aware the tank needed returning to you?
A signed statement from your rider friend stating when and who he spoke to regarding the situation with the tank would be helpful.
I have a verbal statement from the rider stating that the bike company were informed, and also from the riders sponser. It would be helpful to get that in writing - sure that wont be a problem
There was nothing in writing when the bike went back to the motorcycle company
You will have a difficult time proving theft. Have you complained to the police? A conviction makes life so much easier as it's proof that the person concerned did the deed, and as the burden of proof is higher in a criminal court than in a civil court, the fact of the conviction is admissible as evidence of the fact in the civil court.
The civil claim would be for 'conversion', and would be brought under the Torts (Interference With Goods) Act 1977. Suggest you write them a letter before action saying that by selling the bike they have converted your tank and you will issue a claim against them unless they cough up.
It's not a particularly easy Act to understand...
http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/legResults.aspx?LegType=All+Primary&PageNumber=53&NavFrom=2&activeTextDocId=1343923
tactcom7
30-11-10, 12:15 PM
O.k, first get written copies of both statements. Also obtain something which roughly shows the value of your tank. Either a receipt or something like an ebay advert for one of similar age and condition.
Write the company a letter, entitled 'letter before action', stating what you want (your tank back or monies to the value thereof), what you will do if the refuse (small claims court) and who is going to help you do it. (Your solicitor)
Should work hopefully.
...who is going to help you do it. (Your solicitor)
Should work hopefully.
Why do you need a solicitor:smt039 - they're too expensive and you won't recover your costs, even if you win... very easy to issue a claim yourself. Especially if you have a friend to help;)
tactcom7
30-11-10, 12:28 PM
Why do you need a solicitor:smt039 - they're too expensive and you won't recover your costs, even if you win... very easy to issue a claim yourself. Especially if you have a friend to help;)
You don't, but often just mentioning the word is enough to get a result. Plus my mum is free, at soliciting anyway. Wait not that kind..oh nevermind.
Ok guys :) thank you to you both :D I will action by sending a letter to him
Really sucks as i am meant to at a trackday on sat.. aint going to happen without a tank
tactcom7
30-11-10, 01:04 PM
What tank is it you need?
Biker Biggles
30-11-10, 01:11 PM
I know its "wise after the event" but why on earth did your friend allow the bike to go anywhere with your tank still on it?Id have thought he would have removed it and given it back after the racing,not given bike and tank to a third party.
dizzyblonde
30-11-10, 01:14 PM
Why do you need a solicitor:smt039 - they're too expensive and you won't recover your costs, even if you win... very easy to issue a claim yourself. Especially if you have a friend to help;)
Wavey smile.....
You don't, but often just mentioning the word is enough to get a result. Plus my mum is free, at soliciting anyway. Wait not that kind..oh nevermind.
......Wonder if Ed was hinting at his job there:rolleyes:
because he is mechanically retarded and couldnt cope with taking it off. I would have taken it off before he left if i had a chance but we were out racing when they left. They live near me so said they will get it taken off and drop it round
the tank is off a CB500. Granted not worth a huge amount but trying to get a of that age without any rust or damage is a pretty hefty task. Mine was mint and painted to match my bike so thats why i specifcally want my one back
tactcom7
30-11-10, 01:27 PM
Wavey smile.....
......Wonder if Ed was hinting at his job there:rolleyes:
Lol I did wonder that but I couldn't work out why he was slagging his own profession off :-P
Lol I did wonder that but I couldn't work out why he was slagging his own profession off :-P
Yes I'm one of the brethren:D but no longer in private practice and I haven't renewed my practising certificate because I don't need one any more. A bit disillusioned, you might say.
phil24_7
30-11-10, 01:57 PM
Where are you working now Ed...for future reference?
Sorry for the hijack!
tactcom7
30-11-10, 02:02 PM
Yeah I guess so Ed, with good reason though I imagine. My mums a partner in her firm and what I didn't realise is they are the last people to get paid (if there's any left after everyone else has taken a wage out of the pot)
Where are you working now Ed...for future reference?
Sorry for the hijack!
I do 2 days a week for Liverpool City Council, in their Legal Services Team. I have to call myself 'Solicitor (Non-Practising)' cos I don't have a current certificate, I don't need one as I'm not held out as a Solicitor here. The other three days - this and that, helping the builders (but as thety've all but finished I have no more concrete to mix, or drains to dig). I have a few irons in the fire but nothing substantial.
Yeah I guess so Ed, with good reason though I imagine. My mums a partner in her firm and what I didn't realise is they are the last people to get paid (if there's any left after everyone else has taken a wage out of the pot)
That sounds horribly familiar:(
phil24_7
30-11-10, 02:33 PM
I'll keep my fingers crossed for you Ed as your one of the good guys.
Regards
Phil
From memory from my degree theft has 5 components found in the Theft Act.
1. Dishonest
2. Appropriation of property
3. Belonging to another
4. With the intention
5. To permanently deprive the other of it
5 elements seem present. Theft is criminal so report it to the police?
Yes I'm one of the brethren:D but no longer in private practice and I haven't renewed my practising certificate because I don't need one any more. A bit disillusioned, you might say.
Don't say that, I'm about to embark!
beabert
30-11-10, 06:08 PM
I know its "wise after the event" but why on earth did your friend allow the bike to go anywhere with your tank still on it?Id have thought he would have removed it and given it back after the racing,not given bike and tank to a third party.
+1 if i was the friend id of reimbursed you
Milky Bar Kid
30-11-10, 10:55 PM
From memory from my degree theft has 5 components found in the Theft Act.
1. Dishonest
2. Appropriation of property
3. Belonging to another
4. With the intention
5. To permanently deprive the other of it
5 elements seem present. Theft is criminal so report it to the police?
Me thinks it would be incredibly difficult to prove theft in a court of law in this case, I would think she will have much more success going down the civil route.
Rai, have a good chat or PM with Ed, I'm sure he can sort you out with the best advice on this one.
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