Toyota Prius - why?

[grimey121uk]

It appears that the Prius is becoming very popular and i just cant understand why anyone would buy one.

Negatives
-Expensive they cost 20k
-a mid size diesel engine can achieve the same economy with more power
-slow
-crap handling
-the production of the battery cells is bad for the environment
-ugly
-one of the cheapest interiors ive seen in a car for a while

Positives
-no congestion charge in london

What i cant understand is if someone wants to get an economical car you can spend 4-5k less and get a car which is miles better for the environment and has non of the draw backs and is hugely cheaper.

is it just me who thinks this?
you thoughts please...

[punyXpress]

Another +
The feeling of utter superiority - what a good part am I.
They're the sort who had 7 shades beaten out of them at school & now getting their revenge on the rest of the human race.

[yorkie_chris]

Ecomentalists are retarded.... or maybe the tax is free or something. Very false economy anyway.

Prius' do crap mpg around here anyway, not enough traffic to switch onto electric drive much, and they loose out from lugging half a ton of batteries up hill and down dale all the time.

[Dicky Ticker]

You can actually buy small diesels that are more economical and such low emissions that they have little or no road tax and possibly,perhaps somebody will correct this ,no congestion charge for Londonium
With the price difference it will take you over 100,000miles to gain anything and then you will probably need new batteries.
Does anybody know the life expectancy of the motor batteries?

[andrewsmith]

the hybrid cars are a con. They produce more pollution (from raw materials upwards) than a conventional car.

One calculation worked out a prius produced more pollution in its life than a 1957 Chevy Pick-up in 50 years of life (including building the chevy) and still less if it ran for the next 50.

[grimey121uk]

Ecomentalists are retarded.... or maybe the tax is free or something. Very false economy anyway.

Prius' do crap mpg around here anyway, not enough traffic to switch onto electric drive much, and they loose out from lugging half a ton of batteries up hill and down dale all the time.

yeah tax is free but yet my clio 15.tdi is 35quid a year and that cost me £9995 new - so its gonna take a lot of years for me to get the 10k back from the cost of a prius. plus i get 60mpg

[andrewsmith]

With the price difference it will take you over 100,000miles to gain anything and then you will probably need new batteries.
Does anybody know the life expectancy of the motor batteries?

Have heard 7 years bandied about. But the cost of the batteries is something like £8k to replace or the price of a C3 Diesel that is tax exempt

[arenalife]

The best that can usually be said about them is 'at least they're trying' which is a bit like what you say about a retard when they draw a 3 legged cat or something.

[fizzwheel]

Its a fashion thing.

My brother used to work for a toyota dealershp, he said the Prius werent any better on fuel than a normal car, in fact they were worse with the petrol engine running, as the engine was to small for the weight of the car and requried thrashing which lead to poor fuel economy, he also said the handling was terrible as it was running eco tyres which were designed to give low rolling resistance and the expense of grip.

Much rather have a small diesel, like a 106 or a Citereon C3 both will give at least 60 to the gallon if I have done my research correctly.

[gruntygiggles]

We care about the environment and as soon as we can get it set up, we'll run the disco on a mix of diesel and used vegetable oil.

I've had LPG converted petrol engines in the past.

One thing I will never get is a Prius. It only goes to show how naive the owner is that they have believed all the BS they've read about eco friendly they are.

A few A-listers get them and all the sheep follow suit!

[yorkie_chris]

With the price difference it will take you over 100,000miles to gain anything and then you will probably need new batteries.

I am not sure you would ever break even.

[L3nny]

Did anyone see the episode of Top Gear where they got a 911 and a Prius put 1 gallon of fuel in each then got the stig to drive the Prius around the track as fast as he could then get the 911 to follow it at the same speed.

Guess which one ran out of fuel first. The Prius!!

I expect most of the improved economy comes from other things like saving weight with a cheap interior, low resistance tyres and good aerodynamics, the car would probably be more economical in 90% of situations with the electric motor and batterys removed.

EDIT: Sorry it was an M3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKTOyiKLARk)

[yorkie_chris]

In the prius' defence (you won't hear that right often from me) it is more designed to be save fuel in town with frequent start-stops. So they're comparing it where it will naturally compare worst.

Try the same test creeping forward 100 yards then stopping for 30 seconds you MAY see a different result. Cruising on the motorway or many other real situations I think any normal car would win.

[Biker Biggles]

I bet a small diesel would be just as good in town as well.Having two propulsion systems has got to be less efficient ultimately,and is more of a gimmick IMO.
Who was it used to say "Add lightness and simplicate"?

[yorkie_chris]

The big gain from 2 propulsion systems is having regen brakes.

[toxic]

i know someone who has one as a company car, supposedly there are tax savings for the company.
he got given a list and it was a Toyota Pious or various VW Blue Motion type cars.

[fizzwheel]

Who was it used to say "Add lightness and simplicate"?

Colin Champan, founder of Team Lotus

[The Basket]

Did anyone see the episode of Top Gear where they got a 911 and a Prius put 1 gallon of fuel in each then got the stig to drive the Prius around the track as fast as he could then get the 911 to follow it at the same speed.

Guess which one ran out of fuel first. The Prius!!

I expect most of the improved economy comes from other things like saving weight with a cheap interior, low resistance tyres and good aerodynamics, the car would probably be more economical in 90% of situations with the electric motor and batterys removed.

EDIT: Sorry it was an M3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKTOyiKLARk)

The BMW was constantly in the tow of the Prius which means it has less air to go thru so has better MPG than otherwise. Also the Prius was thrashed and the M3 not so it wasnt working at max.

[rowdy]

Meh, piles of hybrid donkey shyte.
Once saw a program in which folically challenged shortarse cockerney geezer Dominic Argos Freeman Littlewood repaired one of them H*nda Civic hybrids. Said the body panels were a lot thinner to make the car lighter because of the extra weight that comes with hybrid technology.
So at least when Mr Specky Tw*t in his hybrid is safe in the knowledge that he is saving mankind and the planet, he is going to be f*cked when he slides off the road into a tree and blows his car into smitherene.

You can get plenty more cars that are more economical and cheap or free road tax, and they are not all roller skate size shopping trolleys either, you can have an Audi, a Golf, Focus etc and Volvo have just brought out a saloon with a diesel engine and under 100g/km (free road tax) and they are all realistically more environmentally friendly than a Prius.

In the case of the Volvo, they are apparently lobbying Boris for the car to be elegible for free entry into London so no Mr Ticker, I don't think any car under 100g/km is elegible for it just yet.

[L3nny]

I can't see drafting making that much difference at those speeds. But both cars were travelling for the same distance at the same speed and the Prius used more fuel. I expect the M3 weighs more as well.

[The Basket]

The Prius is also not a sports car so hardly a fair test.

The top speed of the Prius is below 100mph which is tickover on an M3.

The Prius is rubbish for oh so many reasons. Any modern Diesel is better.

[L3nny]

How is it not a fair test. Bot cars went the same distance at the same speed.

The Prius isn't designed to go fast but then the M3 isn't designed to be economical.

[The Basket]

What speed was the test done at...

A scientific test is 30mph...then 40mph...then 50 mph...

Then take an average.

Any vehicle will quickly run out of fuel when ragged.

[yorkie_chris]

How is it not a fair test. Bot cars went the same distance at the same speed.

The Prius isn't designed to go fast but then the M3 isn't designed to be economical.

I am not saying it was not fair, just that it is not the sort of use it is designed for.

Fact is if you want economical you want small, light, simple. And maybe a diesel engine.

[L3nny]

I see what you mean, of course people who buy a Prius aren't going to drive like that. But the point it proves is that most cars can be driven economically and even an M3 will return decent fuel economy if you drive carefully.

The Prius is just a good marketing success which unfortunately it's not onlythe usual fashion victims which have fallen for it, the government has as well.

[yorkie_chris]

Same people who buy iStuff, nuff said.

If I wanted an economical car, I'd probably buy a 207 diesel. Saw plenty of these get absolutely *rsed with no sympathy and still return 50+mpg for a long time. Saw one owned by a "character" that was basically used as a scrap bin and had done 200,000 mile.

[ChrisSV]

Prius Why?

Company persprective - PR bumf, seen to be doing something for the enviroment, provides a development direction (rightly or wrongly)

Purchaser perspective - Gullable and believes the PR so gets a smug feeling, minimal road tax (again prefer small diesal), can say "i'm driving one of them Prius like *insert celebrity name*

Goverment perspective - Seen to be supporting something eco, they know full well people won't be using them for the intended purpose, i.e driving in towns/cities, so will get more petrol money from the appalling MPG they do.

Unfortunatley, despite the lack of sense the Prius makes, it doesn't appear to be going anywhere soon, and more hybrids are appearing, such as Auris and Civic.
Personally I'd have a small diesal, as mentioned above numerous times.

[tactcom7]

It's funny how everyone is slagging off the prius off and even more so is the **** you are saying about the people that own them.
My mum has one and hasn't had a problem with it. O.k so it's not as economical as it may make out to be. But have you lot ever driven one? No. It's quiet, smooth and comfortable to drive. Which is exactly what she wants from a car. She is not a retard, or a **** as half of you seem to brand prius owners. And her previous cars include a rx7, mx5 and rx8. Yeah I was miffed when she got it but if she is happy with it, along with everyone else that has one, then why are you bothered??

[beabert]

Same people who buy iStuff, nuff said.

If I wanted an economical car, I'd probably buy a 207 diesel. Saw plenty of these get absolutely *rsed with no sympathy and still return 50+mpg for a long time. Saw one owned by a "character" that was basically used as a scrap bin and had done 200,000 mile.

Hindle is bound to have one? lol

[L3nny]

It's funny how everyone is slagging off the prius off and even more so is the **** you are saying about the people that own them.
My mum has one and hasn't had a problem with it. O.k so it's not as economical as it may make out to be. But have you lot ever driven one? No. It's quiet, smooth and comfortable to drive. Which is exactly what she wants from a car. She is not a retard, or a **** as half of you seem to brand prius owners. And her previous cars include a rx7, mx5 and rx8. Yeah I was miffed when she got it but if she is happy with it, along with everyone else that has one, then why are you bothered??

It's okay, we all make mistakes. ;)

I once bought an SV!

And although I've not driven on myself I have been a passenger on one and for the money IMO there are much better cars.

[grimey121uk]

It's funny how everyone is slagging off the prius off and even more so is the **** you are saying about the people that own them.
My mum has one and hasn't had a problem with it. O.k so it's not as economical as it may make out to be. But have you lot ever driven one? No. It's quiet, smooth and comfortable to drive. Which is exactly what she wants from a car. She is not a retard, or a **** as half of you seem to brand prius owners. And her previous cars include a rx7, mx5 and rx8. Yeah I was miffed when she got it but if she is happy with it, along with everyone else that has one, then why are you bothered??

Ive not slagged anyone off but one thing in your statment does interest me.

O.k so it's not as economical as it may make out to be

So if the highlighted statment is true why would you spend daft money on one, the only plus to buying a prius how enviromentaly friendly it is (which it isnt), take that away and what have you got,

Buy a ford focus for 5k cheaper and its better for the enviroment, and will be better in every other way

[grimey121uk]

The way it appears to stack up to me at the moment
-bad for the enviroment
-poor handling and braking due to its huge weight and eco tires
-crap interior in terms of style and build qulity
-god awfull ugly
-poor performance
-expensive to repair (batteries etc)
-more expensive than a top end VW golf or vauxhall astra or ford focus

Looking at the above, i could never think "hmm i have 20k to blow, i know ill buy a pruis for all of the above reasons"

[tactcom7]

Why is that the only plus? So the fact that it's quiet, easy to drive, reliable etc mean naff all? Easy to use in traffic, automatic etc. Try driving one if you like. If you really want to understand why people buy something, try something, the only way to find out why is try it for yourself.
My dad's been driving for over 30 years n reckons it's one of the nicest n easiest cars he's driven. Yes it's not designed for speeding pound corners and so it doesn't do it well.
But like I said, you keep asking why bother, drive one and find out perhaps.

[454697819]

please see here for my opinion...

http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=156949&highlight=environmental+rant

[Sid Squid]

Agree with, (most of), the above. It's early days for the technology however, and we can only expect them to get better, so as a toe in the water it's not a bad car - just a first go at it/proof of principle etc.

The Top Gear test wasn't at all fair, the Pious wasn't intended or constructed for that sort of use so it's unsurprising that it doesn't give it's best when doing so. That said I think it's advantages are going to be hard to find, but I suspect it could give better fuel economy than a comparable car - it would be in a very specific circumstance only though.

There will be a time when fossil fuels get harder to get, if they're economically viable at all that is, all the lessons we learn along the way are good.

[amnesia]

Another bad point - as the temperature drops the battery efficiency is reduced.

The problem I have always had with this type of vehicle is that it might reduce emissions in the city under some circumstances, but the energy they use has to come from somewhere - and that is mostly still the finite supply of fossil fuels - so don't give me 'but it reduces my carbon footprint' and all the BS hype around that.

I think all that happens is the pollution is moved somewhere else.

The problem is of course that you need to start somewhere with new technology, and it will always be expensive, inefficient and limited to start with. Once more companies get involved with energy storage technology research then things will move on. Before you know it we will all be going to work in our Hover-cars and dressing in tin-foil suits.

[yorkie_chris]

I have to disagree with the intent of that point about "the energy has to come from somewhere."

For a purely electric vehicle that's undeniable, however for a hybrid vehicle using regenerative braking the energy source is the kinetic energy of the vehicle which is recovered. In a normal vehicle that energy is wasted as heat in the brakes, so it is effectively "free" energy.

Yeah the pollution is moved somewhere else, but not the way you state (cadmium mining mostly, not direct burning of fuel). A purely electric vehicle is "just a longer tailpipe"; CO2 at the power station not at the car.

[orose]

I think the parallel hybrids like the Prius might be the wrong path to be going down in the longer term - series hybrids, like the Chevy Volt stateside and (worryingly) the Top Gear Hammerhead Eagle i-Thrust where the engine is used to charge the batteries are the way to go.

With these systems, it doesn't matter how the battery is charged, so if you're driving less than their all-electric range you can source your power from whatever sources you have available. For example, I really like the idea behind the Jaguar CX75 concept which uses gas microturbines to charge its batteries.

[yorkie_chris]

Hybrids like that are not IMO the way forward. They by design have a extra energy conversion steps which introduce more inefficiency.

Think about it, engine, rotating shaft power, wheels, shaft power.

Or go rotary > electrical > chemical > electrical > rotary.


Only advantage of that is you can run the engine at constant speed right at it's peak efficiency. But the engine will be tiny and the vehicle slow.

[orose]

Agreed, but the source of that power can also be from regenerative braking (for which the hardware is already present), solar panels on the roof, or plugging it into another more efficient source.

It is a tried and tested approach, going by those huge locomotives that have been hauling up and down the rails for millions of miles - they're effectively mobile power plants on the megawatt scale.

[embee]

We are in an odd situation just at present, the technology is in its very early stages, try
Electric & Hybrid Vehicle Technology International (http://www.ukipme.com/mag_electric.htm) for some insight (sic) into what the state of the art is. One thing for sure, it's not going away.

Costs are very distorted, for a start the fuel giving the energy for mains rechargeable vehicles is not subject to road fuel duty, a similar distortion applies to LPG. The playing field is deliberately made not level by powers that be in order to promote technology advances.

Truth is a very large proportion of vehicle trips are 5-10miles, a lot in stop/start traffic conditions, and many in a basically urban environment, all of which lends itself towards a mains rechargeable vehicle. The supporting infrastructure is straightforward but not without considerable technical issues, one thing being the load on the grid when everyone arrives at work and plugs their car in to recharge, just like the kettle going on after a world cup final.

It'll be an evolutionary thing just like all the other forms of transport have been. Imagine someone suggesting that we should clear a piece of land about 20m wide, level it so there are no real hills, lay big lumps of wood (concrete) every couple of feet and nail down two strips of steel exactly 4' 8 1/2" apart all the way from London to Edinburgh then put a carriage with a steam boiler and a fire on it and loads of coal (burning black rock for goodness sake?) and you'll need to fill up with water every so often etc etc, it sounds mad. And as for flying, sheer lunacy.

The first petrol cars were pretty impractical, there were no petrol stations and the roads were dirt, petrol was originally considered a "waste product".

I was just starting in the auto industry when exhaust emission control was in its infancy (in the UK anyway), end of the 1970's. Then, meeting standards (set by very astute and far sighted bods in the EPA/CARB in the USA) was seen as an almost insurmountable task and every step in tightening regs brought a whole new set of challenges, but what happened was that the technology was driven by the need, materials, electronics, control systems etc etc all developed apace.

The original question, why a Prius? Well, it may not be the answer but neither was the Model T (pedals were wrong for a start). What Toyota have done is prove certain technology concepts can work successfully in real world use, and that's a major factor.

[The Basket]

The main issue with the Prius is that it doesnt make sense.

A small car with a small engine will always be better than a bigger car with a bigger engine...Environmentally so.

The Prius is an over complex solution to a a question best served by little 1 litre cars...which dont need fancy gizmos and are vastly cheaper.

[punyXpress]

" Timber! "
What's wrong with producer gas, & with this one http://krisdedecker.typepad.com/.a/6a00e0099229e88833012876d4a753970c-500wi (http://krisdedecker.typepad.com/.a/6a00e0099229e88833012876d4a753970c-pi)
. . . when the wood runs out, take an axe to the coachwork.