Photographers...

[Stuuk1]

Hi all, I know there has been much talk about photographers etc on here but I have a dilemna..

My girlfriend is a student and University studying photography in fashion. Now she has an Olympus, which is apparently quite complicated to use and her uni uses the Canon EOS 1000D.

Being someone who knows nothing about cameras.. What is the best camera out there which would suit her needs for now and well in to the future?

I have a price range of around £800. Its either a good camera for the money or a new macbook (which she has an old one anyway).

Apparently Canon are good because you can get lots of addons?

The 1000D write up says this:
With a 10.1 Megapixel CMOS sensor and technology inherited from Canon’s professional models, the EOS 1000D offers EOS imaging power in an affordable, easy-to-use package.

Which tells me its just on the market for general purpose and not professionalism...

HELP!

[fizzwheel]

Looks like Canon's Entry level DSLR. Which if thats the case I'd be inclined to consider it seriously.

the advantage of using something that her University already has is that her University might have a stock of lenses that she can borrow or use that will fit straight onto that camera body.

Remember with a DSLR, its not just about the camera its about what Lens you stick on the front of it.

I'm not a canon man, I have Nikon, but IMHO you wont go wrong with a Canon, just like you wont go wrong with a Nikon either.

Is it something that she is going to use alot during the course of her study ?

[Stuuk1]

She will be using it all the time, the camera seems to be attatched to her 24/7...

Ive done a little research and alot of cameras seem to have video capture on them which she isnt interested in at all.

She has also mentioned Nikon aswell!

Would the 1000D last her a long time even after finishing uni and then on to making a living with the camera? 10.1mp enough? Or with fashion will she require more for more zoom or to blow a picture up?

[the_lone_wolf]

I'm not a canon man, I have Nikon, but IMHO you wont go wrong with a Canon, just like you wont go wrong with a Nikon either.

This is the crux of the matter, Nikon and Canons have different plus and minus points but if you buy one of the big two you'll get a top model and plenty of support later on that you may not with less common names

My beef with Canons is the size of the lower level models, my normal sized hands swamp the things, but obviously your GF probably won't have that issue (unless she's got man hands?)

For a student course you won't *need* a professional model (and she could end up spending more on the camera than the course fees!), an decent mid or entry level model will do everything she'll need, I'd be looking around the Canon 550D and Nikon D7000 level

[Stuuk1]

The 550d looks better than the 1000d? Its certainly more expensive... Not that its too much of a problem, ill just need to find out what lens she uses at the moment. This bundle ive found seems good apart from the lens which i dont know about:

http://www.jessops.com/online.store/products/78110/show.html

[the_lone_wolf]

The 550d looks better than the 1000d?

From what I remember when I was looking the 1000D was pretty old then, unless they've updated it I'd be wary buying such an old model...

Before she spends the money go and molest a few in Jessops, no point buying a technical masterpiece if you can't get a comfy grip on it - that was the decider for me when I went and played with the 550D and the D5000

[Stuuk1]

Well, im paying.. its an xmas present. Ok ill head out to a Jessops soon, thanks so much for your help!

[the_lone_wolf]

Take her with you, or at least her hands...

Also check out www.dpreview.com for extremely detailed reviews of cameras...

[jambo]

We bought my dad a 1000D a last Christmas if memory serves and he's been very happy with it. My 400D (now discontinued, the 1000D shares the same sensor) has taken many thousands of photos without issue.

Whet lenses and accessories she ends up using will depend on the type of photography she ends up doing. The higher end models allow access to more features without going into menus.

Ultimately the amount spent on the camera will probably pale compared to lenses flashes etc if she ever wants to make a living from it...

Jambo

[SIII]

Bought a 400D about 18 mths ago and am very pleased with it. My only critisism is the images are a little 'soft'. Not quite as sharp as I would like but this is only really noticable on large print and can often be sorted on editing software. If your GF is used to using Canon I would stick to that as once you have learned how to access all the menu's it is difficult to learn the Nikon menu style. (the only reason I chose the canon over the similar nikon at the time)
I would suggest you go for the 500D or 550D as she may well 'outgrow ' the basic 1000D very soon and the 15/18meg will print better than the 10meg of the 1000d.
Not sure the jessops flash included in the kit, is as good as the genuine canon unit which is fantastic.
Hope this helps a little:D

[Specialone]

That money would get you a Nikon D90 with a 105 mm lense.
Its worth mentioning, for gods sake dont just walk into Jessops and pay for whatever you buy.

I found this out recently when i bought a 300mm nikon lense, online it was £405, but in the store was £437, but if you buy online and ask for store pick up, you can still pay in store (???) i know its mad and the guy in the store couldnt explain it either.
Its a stupid idea imo, you can walk in the shop, get their advice choose a camera or whatever, thn stand in the store on your internet phone and buy it online for cheaper, wait a bit, then buy it cheaper from same store.
Absolutely barmy.

[Viney]

I have a price range of around £800. Its either a good camera for the money or a new macbook (which she has an old one anyway).

HELP!You can get the Canon 500d twin lens kit for that money on Camerabox.com. plus you get a case, spare battery and memory card as well

Tis what i have. Very good bit of kit

Canon 500D 18-55mm IS + 55-250mm IS Twin Kit (Cash Back) + Hama Pro Zoomster Case + Rapide Power 32GB HC Super High Speed Class 10 + LP-E5 Spare Battery Saver Bundle £745

http://www.camerabox.co.uk/product.asp?ProductName=Canon-EOS-500D-18-55mm-IS-+-55-250mm-IS-Twin-Kit-%28%25A330-Cashback!!%29&ProductID=8255 (http://www.camerabox.co.uk/product.asp?ProductName=Canon-EOS-500D-18-55mm-IS-+-55-250mm-IS-Twin-Kit-%28%25A330-Cashback%21%21%29&ProductID=8255)

[jambo]

I've found the images very sharp with my 400d, but I tend not to use the kit 18-55 lens (the newer 18-55 IS seems to be a better lens optically even aside from the IS).

Speaking of which I much put my 17-85 in for repair after the aperture ring went nuts after a few years of hard service :(

For the OP: Whatever you buy I'm sure it'll end up being replaced part by part. Something up from the bottom line may grow further with her than the 1000D

[Smudge]

Try the Leica M range if you don't want to keep upgrading

Canon, Nikon are ok for press use but they aint no Leica or Hasselblad

[grimey121uk]

Ive had a variety of canon camera gear over the past few years, the best thing you could buy her if she uses it a lot is a 2nd hand (Body) canon 40d (£350ish) or 50d (£450ish) and that leaves you cash to get a decent lens.

I started with a 400d and if you use it a lot and want to progress you will want to upgrade

The downside to consumer level DSLR's are the lack of buttons, now at first you would assume more buttons = more complicated but that isnt the case. If she uses the camera in manual mode on any entry level model (tripple digit xxxD) she will only have one scroll whell to control 2 settings which means she will have to mess around holding a button down to activity the scroll wheel for its secondary function this is a royal pain in the ****, the having 2 scroll wheels is absolutly invaluble to anyone who wants to use a camera for more than a P&S.

Other features on prosumer grad camers (double digit- xxD) are-
Better build (metal vs plastic)
Brighter and larger view finder
Almost double the battery life
Faster shooting for action shots

The onlydown side is they are a bit heavier and a bit more bulky, and dont let anyone tell you they are harder to use as they have all the same auto modes and they function in exactly differant ways

Also do not worry about MP, cannon slrs with 10 and 15MP and you cannot tell differance, a good frind of mine has a 7d with 18MP and you really cant tell. I have many images (often cropped) from my 10MP cameras printed A3 size and they are stunning

My gear
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4041/4663632834_dff1532104_z.jpg

[fizzwheel]

The downside to consumer level DSLR's are the lack of buttons, now at first you would assume more buttons = more complicated but that isnt the case.

I'm starting to find that now with my D40. But its done me well in the 3 years I've had it and I've only really noticed since I started playing with the settings alot more.

Agreed on the Megapixel thing. Its a hangup based on the way the compact digital camera's are marketed, i.e. more means a better picture.

[grimey121uk]

With consumer grade cameras they just add gimmicks to each new generation then replace them every 12 months as my joe public thinks a few higher numbers will give him better pics when all he does is use it in auto and use it like a P&S.

Some other gimmicks include video, articulating screens, more mega pixels and more techy words on the box.
Its like video yeah it may have its use for advanced users (it has shallow depth of field and stunning qulity) but the general consumer thinks he can use it as a camcorder to film his holiday when in reality he cant, as often its all manual focus, has a max recording length of just over 10 mins and the file sizes are huge.

Buy a DSLR with the intention of it being a good still camera and not a swiss army knife

[Specialone]

I know probably not a massive difference, but that is why i spent a bit more than i wanted to on my first DSLR, i didnt wanna be wishing i bought a better one then having to spend even more cash 18 months or so down the line as i get more experienced.
I thought with the D90 it would do me ok for a good few years, then upgrade it and hopefully the half decent lenses i have bought / will buy will still be ok for the replacement upgraded body.

[Smudge]

With consumer grade cameras they just add gimmicks
Buy a DSLR with the intention of it being a good still camera and not a swiss army knife

+1
Ask her inadvertantly what she wants as she may choose a lens or better lighting as the amount of light you get in the lense determines the quality of the pic not the megapixels we are led to believe!

[Stuuk1]

+1
Ask her inadvertantly what she wants as she may choose a lens or better lighting as the amount of light you get in the lense determines the quality of the pic not the megapixels we are led to believe!

Ive tried this already, and she e-mailed be a big long list of links to topshop... So that attempt failed.

I failed last night to see the lens's that she has already. What I have done, is look through some posts on her facebook and e-mailed some guy i think is on her course and asked for her lecturers e-mail address. So hopefully he wont try and help (he is a pap) and will just give me the info i have requested!

[boot]

All good advice so far.

I definitely wouldn't buy from Jessops. Partly, I have a grudge, as they pretty much killed of all small independent camera shops by swamping towns with multiple stores in many locations and are excessively priced with staff who are one the whole, retail workers rather than enthusiasts or experts. The other issue being that you can get much better prices online and through local independents if they're competitive (which many are) then your money is more ethically spent too.

If you want to win some points on doing your research and thinking a little outside the box, I think we could all pool a little knowledge on the extras you acquire over time that become invaluable bits of kit, that someone getting in to photography wouldn't necessarily think of first off, such as:

A small empty bean bag - preferably PUL lined so filling on-site with wet things wouldn't wet your gear. Useful when you don't want to lug a monopod or tripod around.

A remote trigger. I have an Infrared one for my Canon, which gets a lot of use.

Reflectors - you can get some quite innovative ones that cover white, silver and gold all in one.

An off-camera shoe cord.

Aperture or Lightroom and Photoshop for the Mac.

Lynda.com tutorials on how to use any software you 'acquire'.

An good capacity external hard drive for all those photos to go on.
An extra external hard drive to backup the first one to (good advice being to backup and store at a relative or friend's house 'just-in-case'), or an online storage solution.

A domain name and hosting plan. I use ixwebhosting, as they reasonably cheap, but am currently looking for a green alternative.

Printers, inks, papers, books on/tools for picture framing.

I could go on...

Oh, I did. :rolleyes:

[Stuuk1]

Wow, thanks again!

I recieved an e-mail back from her friend and got an e-mail address for the lecturer only it ends .ac.uk so im hoping she can see them outside of university as they have broken up for christmas.

Software wise, I admit i'm a bit of an internet leech and download the stuff for free.. So software isn't usually a problem and i recently downloaded and found a crack for indesign which she uses regularly.

Printer-wise, funnily enough we were looking the other week, she has said about laser printers and A3 size printers.. She's in to impulse buying and i said to wait and ask someone who actually knows! Turns out that laser printers arent what she wants for A3, is that right? I may be wrong.

The other stuff I have no idea what they are so can't comment, although the waterproof bag is a good idea!

[Stuuk1]

You can get the Canon 500d twin lens kit for that money on Camerabox.com. plus you get a case, spare battery and memory card as well

Tis what i have. Very good bit of kit

£745

http://www.camerabox.co.uk/product.asp?ProductName=Canon-EOS-500D-18-55mm-IS-+-55-250mm-IS-Twin-Kit-%28%25A330-Cashback!!%29&ProductID=8255 (http://www.camerabox.co.uk/product.asp?ProductName=Canon-EOS-500D-18-55mm-IS-+-55-250mm-IS-Twin-Kit-%28%25A330-Cashback%21%21%29&ProductID=8255)

I placed the item (£745 bundle) in the basket and went to checkout, then though id check out the website first and found this....

http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews159866.html

Order aborted...

[the_lone_wolf]

Without wanting to be rude, frankly dude, you're mad buying a camera she's never handled - what if she's not comfortable using it? Could easily have happened to me had I not gone and played with them before buying...

As for Jessops, despite the bile outpouring up there ^^^ our local is very good and staffed by people who genuinely know what they're talking about so I guess it depends on how lucky you are - I paid about £50 more for buying there than from an unknown internet retailer, and I'd much rather support a local shop even if it is a national chain...

[Stuuk1]

Well she has used this guys 50d and the 1000d at uni and she hasn't moaned (trust me, if she has anything to moan about, id know about it).

Ive pretty much decided on this bundle now seeming as i cant find a good bundle package i can trust online to get it to me before xmas:

http://www.jessops.com/online.store/products/78081/show.html?cm_vc=PPZ1

I just have to find a time to pick it up as I work away during the week.

[Specialone]

Without wanting to be rude, frankly dude, you're mad buying a camera she's never handled - what if she's not comfortable using it? Could easily have happened to me had I not gone and played with them before buying...

As for Jessops, despite the bile outpouring up there ^^^ our local is very good and staffed by people who genuinely know what they're talking about so I guess it depends on how lucky you are - I paid about £50 more for buying there than from an unknown internet retailer, and I'd much rather support a local shop even if it is a national chain...

Very rare i know but i have to agree with wolfie here ;)
The jessops i got my gear from seemed to know their apples.

When i was researching prices for my D90 the best price i found was £750 that was online, jessops £800 in store price.

I got a 3x2 feet free canvas print worth £70 which i have used, so didnt really cost anymore than elsewhere.
Plus...any problems i can take it back to them, not have to worry about posting it somwhere.

[fizzwheel]

I have to say the Jessops in Yeovil that I bought all my stuff from have been very good, but I had done alot of research prior to buying and knew what I wanted. Always offered a go with the lens or camera prior to purchasing, asked what I would be using it for etc etc, staff seem interested in photography and camera's rather than just simply trying to shift boxes.

Plus point is that if i have a problem I can take it back and talk to somebody about it.

Id be happy to use a local independant, but there arent any so I cant.

[Stuuk1]

Well, I've done it. Ive spent the money in Jessops and bought this bundle:

http://www.jessops.com/online.store/products/78081/show.html?cm_vc=PPZ1

Im sure she will be very very happy!

Thankyou for all of your help!!

[boot]

I paid about £50 more for buying there than from an unknown internet retailer, and I'd much rather support a local shop even if it is a national chain...

Your prerogative.

As is...
Without wanting to be rude...

And the being so...

As for Jessops, despite the bile outpouring up there ^^^

Id be happy to use a local independant, but there arent any so I cant.
Kind of my point.

Simply posting my personal opinions and views based on experiences over the past 15+ years, which I can happily back up.

Anyway Stuuk1, pleased to see you've picked, looks like a good package and sure she will be very happy.

[the_lone_wolf]

And the being so...

That was aimed at the OP, not you...

Frankly I don't know you and couldn't care less if you think I'm being rude to you...

:smt039

[Smudge]

http://i.ebayimg.com/22/!B9OJCn!!mk~$(KGrHqR,!hIEzeph3dqhBM5JEPOd4w~~0_1.J PG

This is one of the most usefull things I've bought!
available from here.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/back-white-green-chroma-key-screen-Backdrop-light-kit-/300500834231?pt=UK_Photography_StudioEquipment_RL&hash=item45f73ed7b7

[Stuuk1]

Well, Xmas came and has now gone... But most importantly she loved it! Thank you everyone for your advice and help!

Now for the next question...

I have decided I want to buy a cheap-ish dslr camera and learning a little bit about it myself!

I for some reason fancy doing some sort of sporting photography e.g. Fast moving cars or bikes with a blurred background.

Can anyone shed any light on what to look for in a camera? Would perhaps a Canon 400d do the trick with the right lens of course?

I'd like to blow these pics up a little to perhaps a3 size, frame and then flog at a car booty? Just for a hobby.

Again, thanks in advance ;)

[beabert]

2 umbrellas with stands, handy if your standing still.

[mister c]

Well, Xmas came and has now gone... But most importantly she loved it! Thank you everyone for your advice and help!

Now for the next question...

I have decided I want to buy a cheap-ish dslr camera and learning a little bit about it myself!

I for some reason fancy doing some sort of sporting photography e.g. Fast moving cars or bikes with a blurred background.

Can anyone shed any light on what to look for in a camera? Would perhaps a Canon 400d do the trick with the right lens of course?

I'd like to blow these pics up a little to perhaps a3 size, frame and then flog at a car booty? Just for a hobby.

Again, thanks in advance ;)
I have just dipped my toe in the water by buying a Canon 300d with a couple of lenses off a friend of mine that has updated to a 5D (or D5, I cant remember all the anal talk lol) & I have to say that I am well impressed with the quality of the pictures. I have done quite a bit of motorsports with mine & am learning all of the time. My daughter has just picked up a 1000d & lens off ebay for £230. It is immaculate, with a bag & the pics are really good. As said before, dont worry about MPs, mine is only 6 & they look really good quality wise.

Just a couple of shots with my 300d.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_x187wrpxju4/TH_U20Rc0jI/AAAAAAAABeA/xYen1fFKqc4/s720/IMG_4513.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_x187wrpxju4/TMHR6U9JRYI/AAAAAAAACGc/2JfGKANK_gM/s512/IMG_4942.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_x187wrpxju4/TQSSSEEA-UI/AAAAAAAACUA/jFzkFOuti9c/s720/IMG_5754.JPG

[stewie]

I'm going backwards, Ive just invested in a Nikon F90 for a staggering £35, well a few months ago tbh, but anyway I can use my digi lenses on it with the added bonus of my 18 - 55 is now a 12 - 43 ish plus a single 35mm image taken on fuji velvia has the equivalent of approx 100 mbs of info on it, Ive scanned images this way and even had one published, theres some right bargains out there on Ebay

[Stuuk1]

Would anyone like to answer another question of mine? Ok, here goes...

We are now on to looking at printers... Can anyone offer any advice on the best printer to print a3 sized photos? Laser? Inkjet? Which is best?

Thanks!

[boot]

Inkjet. My preference would be Canon - inks are pretty cheap to replenish as they use a separate print head, whereas some manufacturers put the print head in the cartridge, making replacement inks expensive. Although a replacement print head for a Canon is expensive.

Having said that, I was fortunate enough to pick up an Epson A3 printer from freecycle for black and white prints using Lyson inks, and the quality is very good.

Quality ink and paper is paramount in producing quality prints and should also be a consideration when choosing.

TBH though, unless it's an absolute must to own one, I'd be inclined to fire a few through Peak Imaging first, quality is very high at respectable prices.

[TC3]

Just ordered a printer myself but it is not A3. They are too pricey for me so stuck with A4. Have used Epsom and HP in the past but thought i would try a Canon 6150 inkjet as it gets some good reviews. Xmas pressie to myself :)

[Filipe M.]

I'm going backwards, Ive just invested in a Nikon F90 for a staggering £35, well a few months ago tbh, but anyway I can use my digi lenses on it with the added bonus of my 18 - 55 is now a 12 - 43 ish plus a single 35mm image taken on fuji velvia has the equivalent of approx 100 mbs of info on it, Ive scanned images this way and even had one published, theres some right bargains out there on Ebay

Sorry to disagree, but your 18-55mm lens is still an 18-55mm lens... the difference being it is now giving you 18-55mm real angle of view (albeit with a very strong vignette from 24 mm downwards), whereas in your digital camera it would give you 27-82.5mm equivalent angle of view... ;) In a way it's a shame they dropped the aperture rings, it does cripple the lenses when you want to use them with older but still very usable bodies like the F70 / F90x. It'll work perfectly with the F80 / F100, though, even in A and M modes.

As for Velvia having the equivalent of 100 MB of info on them... that's a bit disputable, and it all depends on how you save your files. The tests I've seen with Provia, which is a sharper film than Velvia, point to an equivalent resolution of 20 MP, after which you're just scanning and enlarging the grain structure of the film. Of course if you save a 20 MP file as a 16 bit TIFF you might even get a bit more than 100 MB ;) What I won't dispute though is the quality you get from a well exposed Velvia slide... pure lust. :love:

[Filipe M.]

Inkjet. My preference would be Canon - inks are pretty cheap to replenish as they use a separate print head, whereas some manufacturers put the print head in the cartridge, making replacement inks expensive. Although a replacement print head for a Canon is expensive.


+1. Canon PixmaPro 9000 or 9500 Mk. II.

*drools*

*drools some more*

*runs out of drool*

[stewie]

Sorry to disagree, but your 18-55mm lens is still an 18-55mm lens... the difference being it is now giving you 18-55mm real angle of view (albeit with a very strong vignette from 24 mm downwards), whereas in your digital camera it would give you 27-82.5mm equivalent angle of view... ;) In a way it's a shame they dropped the aperture rings, it does cripple the lenses when you want to use them with older but still very usable bodies like the F70 / F90x. It'll work perfectly with the F80 / F100, though, even in A and M modes.

As for Velvia having the equivalent of 100 MB of info on them... that's a bit disputable, and it all depends on how you save your files. The tests I've seen with Provia, which is a sharper film than Velvia, point to an equivalent resolution of 20 MP, after which you're just scanning and enlarging the grain structure of the film. Of course if you save a 20 MP file as a 16 bit TIFF you might even get a bit more than 100 MB ;) What I won't dispute though is the quality you get from a well exposed Velvia slide... pure lust. :love:

Well thats me told ;) I must admit I thought using a digi lens did give me more angle but you're right about the vignetting though, have to admit I got the 100 mb info from practical photographer but have saved to tiff before and as good as velvia is I actually prefer provia, still £35 for a F90 ? you cant beat that mate :)

[rob13]

Stu my advice on getting some kit would be to buy a Canon 30d or 40d (probably could get away with a 20d) and then add something like a Canon 70-300 IS lens to it. I've got the 40D and its excellent. You will be able to enlarge no problem with any of those bodies suggested. The Canon 70-300IS isnt the best lens available but its affordable, and it gets good results.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v642/robchester/IMG_8002.jpg

[cbay]

I would take a look on eBay and see if you can pick up a cheap 30D / 40D also. I have a Canon 1D MkIII but have 2x 30Ds as Backups and they are superb! You can't complain at them for the price. :-) It will do everything your girlfriend will need. You are better looking into Lenses as they are what matters more and will stay with you forever if looked after.

[fizzwheel]

I for some reason fancy doing some sort of sporting photography e.g. Fast moving cars or bikes with a blurred background.

Lense, think lense, then think some more about a lense, to get a decent result its not going to be cheap either. Well in my experience either.

You want a decent tele lense with a decent range i.e. 70 - 300mm and it will need to be fast on the auto focus as well. Zoom is especially important at places like Donnington where you have two layers of catch fencing to deal with and you are a fair old distance from the track in certain places as well.

Then you'll need to fiddle learn about shutter speed and aperture and then you'll need to learn to pan with the subject matter.

Its as much about learning to use what you have got as it is about having the right kit in the first place.

A couple of mine, you'll have seen these on the forum at some point no doubt

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/fizzwheel/Donny%202008/DSC_0160-1.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/fizzwheel/CSC_0469.jpg

[stewie]

Stu my advice on getting some kit would be to buy a Canon 30d or 40d (probably could get away with a 20d) and then add something like a Canon 70-300 IS lens to it. I've got the 40D and its excellent. You will be able to enlarge no problem with any of those bodies suggested. The Canon 70-300IS isnt the best lens available but its affordable, and it gets good results.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v642/robchester/IMG_8002.jpg
Ive got a Nikon D60 with a couple of VR lenses, 18-55 and 55-200 plus various bits and bobs, I always thought fitting an analogue lens to a digi slr body would increase the focal length by a factor of approx 0.5 therefore a 200 lens would become a 300 on a digi slr cos of the way the sensor magnifies the image from the lens, therefore a digi lens on an analogue body should be the reverse or so I would have thought,anyway sorry for hi jacking the thread ;)

[grimey121uk]

All lens mm's are created equal, there is no such thing as a digital lens or an analogue lens in terms of mm.
a 50mm lens from today is the same as a 50mm lens from 40 years ago

the difference is the body / sensor size

Heres the formula
lens mm X crop factor

crop factors;
-35mm film camera = 1.0
-Canon crop cameras = 1.6
-Nikon crop cameras = 1.5
-Olympus crop cameras = 2.0

eg

50mm lens on a film camera (50mm x 1.0) = 50mm (35mm equivalent)
50mm lens on a nikon camera (50mm x 1.5) = 75mm (35mm equivalent) but it is a still a 50mm lens, it just acts different

[keith_d]

The crop factor is there because the sensor in a digital camera is 33% smaller than the piece of film in my old 35mm camera. The digital camera only records the central portion of the image formed by the lens and ignores the rest. The focal length of the lens remains the same, but we are cropping the image in the camera.

For example, a Nikon D90 has a crop factor of 1.5, so a 50mm lens on the D90 will have roughly the same field of view as a 75mm lens on my film camera. These 35mm equivalent values are quite handy because they allow us to compare cameras with different sensor sizes.

However, the manufacturers have one last trick up their sleeve. Providing even illumination for a 35mm x 24mm film requires quite a lot of heavy (and expensive) glass. If we only need to illuminate 66% of that area why not use less glass and mount these smaller, lighter lenses in cheaper plastic bodies. This means 'DX' lenses that are lighter, cheaper to manufacture and ultimately more profitable.

Just my thoughts,

Keith.

[rob13]

The crop factor is there because the sensor in a digital camera is 33% smaller than the piece of film in my old 35mm camera. The digital camera only records the central portion of the image formed by the lens and ignores the rest. The focal length of the lens remains the same, but we are cropping the image in the camera.

For example, a Nikon D90 has a crop factor of 1.5, so a 50mm lens on the D90 will have roughly the same field of view as a 75mm lens on my film camera. These 35mm equivalent values are quite handy because they allow us to compare cameras with different sensor sizes.

However, the manufacturers have one last trick up their sleeve. Providing even illumination for a 35mm x 24mm film requires quite a lot of heavy (and expensive) glass. If we only need to illuminate 66% of that area why not use less glass and mount these smaller, lighter lenses in cheaper plastic bodies. This means 'DX' lenses that are lighter, cheaper to manufacture and ultimately more profitable.

Just my thoughts,

Keith.

Thats only true on the crop sensor cameras i.e xxxD and xxD in Canons range. The 5D and 1D's are both full frame cameras so 17mm really is 17mm.

I'm compensating with the 40D by using a Sigma 10-20mm for wide angle Landscapes.

[Filipe M.]

Thats only true on the crop sensor cameras i.e xxxD and xxD in Canons range. The 5D and 1D's are both full frame cameras so 17mm really is 17mm.

I'm compensating with the 40D by using a Sigma 10-20mm for wide angle Landscapes.

Not quite, the 1D Mk IV has a 1.3x crop factor, only the 1Ds (and 5D / 5D Mk II) has a full frame sensor.

As a side note, in Nikon's range the D3, D3s, D3x and D700 are full frame, all others are 1.5x crop. The newer D3100 and D7000 are closer to a 1.55x crop though, but still considered 1.5 because it makes them look better on the spec sheet :lol:

[rob13]

I think if I was to upgrade, I'd go for the 5D MkII but having APS-C lenses means a complete change of kit!

[keith_d]

I'd like to upgrade to a full frame D700 for landscape photography, but they're a tad expensive. :(

[grimey121uk]

The down side of modern photography is people just look for big numbers,

Im on a canon forum and now it is just getting full of threads on someone getting a 5d mk2 or a 7d and then asking how to use it, "how do i use M mode" etc.

People just assume that 20+mp makes good pictures or that 20mp = twice as good as 10mp which it isnt.

I remember sigma bringing out SD camera range with the foveon sesnor but it never took off as they were only 6mp compared to the bayer sensors 12+ mp (at the time). When in reality a normal digital sensor can only resolve detail over 3 pixels (it takes 3 pixels to resolve 1 pixel worth of detail), where as the the sigma could resolve sinlge pixel detaisl as each pixel could see all 3 colours.

Another point now is that we have compact cameras with 15mp for around 100quid yet they resolve less detail and provide lower quality images than an older 6mp camera could.

[rob13]

The down side of modern photography is people just look for big numbers,

Im on a canon forum and now it is just getting full of threads on someone getting a 5d mk2 or a 7d and then asking how to use it, "how do i use M mode" etc.

People just assume that 20+mp makes good pictures or that 20mp = twice as good as 10mp which it isnt.

I remember sigma bringing out SD camera range with the foveon sesnor but it never took off as they were only 6mp compared to the bayer sensors 12+ mp (at the time). When in reality a normal digital sensor can only resolve detail over 3 pixels (it takes 3 pixels to resolve 1 pixel worth of detail), where as the the sigma could resolve sinlge pixel detaisl as each pixel could see all 3 colours.

Another point now is that we have compact cameras with 15mp for around 100quid yet they resolve less detail and provide lower quality images than an older 6mp camera could.

Everyone starts somewhere, its just that some buy the best to start with while others buy the best they can afford.

In all cases, do your homework before you buy!

[Filipe M.]

(...)When in reality a normal digital sensor can only resolve detail over 3 pixels (it takes 3 pixels to resolve 1 pixel worth of detail), where as the the sigma could resolve sinlge pixel detaisl as each pixel could see all 3 colours.

Close, but not quite right... a normal (Bayer filtered) sensor can resolve luminance detail pixel by pixel just like the Foveon, it's only the colour information that will need info from the adjacent pixels to be fully resolved. Whereas the Foveon sensor can "read" full colour on every pixel, a Bayer sensor's pixel will read green, red or blue luminance and then use the adjacent pixels (not necessarily just 3) to interpolate the actual colour on the original pixel (and they have twice the number of green pixels than blue or red because the human eye is more sensitive to green than any of the others). This, by the way, is the reason why the RAW converter software (in or out of camera) is so important on digital cameras: it's the RAW converter's job to interpolate the colours for the individual pixels (called de-mosaicing), and the ability to do this will make or break a picture.

As any good marketing department would do, Sigma's advertising took it upon themselves to try and convince everyone that since their sensor could read 3 colours per pixel, it was actually equivalent to a Bayer sensor with 3 times the resolution (hence all the confusion about it), which isn't quite right. While it's true that their 6 MP sensors produced images with better apparent resolution, sharpness and "clarity" (due to the "real" colours being recorded for every pixel and the lack of the anti-aliasing filter that still kills sharpness on the Bayer sensors - that's another story), they are not equivalent to a 3x the resolution Bayer sensor coupled with a good de-mosaicing algorythm, and this is especially true when it comes to printing big. 6 MP is just not the same as 18 MP when it comes to sending data to the printer...

[grimey121uk]

Close, but not quite right... a normal (Bayer filtered) sensor can resolve luminance detail pixel by pixel just like the Foveon, it's only the colour information that will need info from the adjacent pixels to be fully resolved. Whereas the Foveon sensor can "read" full colour on every pixel, a Bayer sensor's pixel will read green, red or blue luminance and then use the adjacent pixels (not necessarily just 3) to interpolate the actual colour on the original pixel (and they have twice the number of green pixels than blue or red because the human eye is more sensitive to green than any of the others). This, by the way, is the reason why the RAW converter software (in or out of camera) is so important on digital cameras: it's the RAW converter's job to interpolate the colours for the individual pixels (called de-mosaicing), and the ability to do this will make or break a picture.

As any good marketing department would do, Sigma's advertising took it upon themselves to try and convince everyone that since their sensor could read 3 colours per pixel, it was actually equivalent to a Bayer sensor with 3 times the resolution (hence all the confusion about it), which isn't quite right. While it's true that their 6 MP sensors produced images with better apparent resolution, sharpness and "clarity" (due to the "real" colours being recorded for every pixel and the lack of the anti-aliasing filter that still kills sharpness on the Bayer sensors - that's another story), they are not equivalent to a 3x the resolution Bayer sensor coupled with a good de-mosaicing algorythm, and this is especially true when it comes to printing big. 6 MP is just not the same as 18 MP when it comes to sending data to the printer...


The point i was making is that the camera uses software to resolve the 3 colour pixels into a single pixel, then the software then expands the 1 pixel of detail out to 3 pixels.

This using an algorithm to estimate what them 2 other pixels maty look like

Sending 18mp to a printer just reduces pixelation, however the sigma would still capture the same details amount of detail, it would just apear pixelated where as the bayer sensor would be soft but less pixelated

[speedplay]

Just my 2 pence worth...

I got given an eos 1000D this time last year for my birthday.
I have a variety of different lenses and still feel that the camera is far better than I will be for a long time.
Yes its an entry level DSLR but for what it costs (and theres some great deals out there at the moment) its a lot of camera.
As Fizz has mentioned, its also handy if the uni use the same cameras as lenses are easily interchanged.

[Stuuk1]

Well I don't know about all this pixel stuff... But yes very handy as she can borrow lenses from her uni.

[Bluefish]

Would you guys and girls, reccomend buying off ebay from either hong kong or the usa, as regards import and vat, i believe if you get taxed it's roughly 20% of the total cost, just you can get some brill deals especially from the usa. why is everything so feckin expensive over here, lol :evil:

[Specialone]

Would you guys and girls, reccomend buying off ebay from either hong kong or the usa, as regards import and vat, i believe if you get taxed it's roughly 20% of the total cost, just you can get some brill deals especially from the usa. why is everything so feckin expensive over here, lol :evil:

Depends, if from the states you get them to say its a warranty replacement part you can get round import duty + vat which is actually 10% plus 20% vat now.

[Bluefish]

Hi mate, most companys say that they won't say it's a gift etc, i assume they are all playing by the rules now, and it just depends on if your package gets caught, but if caught 30%makes it less worth the risk, although could still be cheaper than here, been looking at this type of thing http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nikon-D90-Digital-SLR-Camera-3-Lens-Kit-18-55-VR-MORE-/290518201461?pt=Digital_Cameras&hash=item43a43bf475

[keith_d]

The other thing to watch for when buying imports is how the UK distributor will handle warranty issues.