Broken Down Wont start.

[SVMAT]

Hi all my bike cut out as it hit the limiter in second (i had just done a 30 mile commute and was nearly home bike was warm etc). Hasnt started since. Compresion is good, turns over fine. Fuel pump is not making noise i think a fuse has gone? I had no tools and had a look under rear seat and couldnt see fuses. Are they under the main seat? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Biker Biggles]

Post up what bike you are talking about,then start with the simple stuff.
Favorite for cutting out while going along is sidestand cut out switch.Check that first.Also make sure you have fuel and you didnt nudge the kill switch.

[SVMAT]

sorry its a k4 sv650s. Dont beleive its sidestand switch as i was riding when it cut out and specifically cut out when it hit the limiter.

[Owenski]

still check the side stand switch, they're known for it at this time of year all the road crud clogs it all up. Mines been wired around to avoid such incidents happening again.
Was there any reason for you bouncing it off the limiter in 2nd gear?
Reg/Rec could have caused it to cut out but you'd be getting f'all from it now however if when you turn on the ignition everything is normal except your FI system isnt priming then I'd look into that fuse.
Not sure where the FI fuse is, but your mains fuse is under the rider seat, right hand side of the bike you may be possible to get to if you pop off the infill panel (although not sure off top of my head) may require you to take off the rider seat so you can see the battery its defo visible then.
The other fuse housing will be under near the CDI, so depending on how neat your wiring is its either under the pillion seat or stuffed in next to your battery.

Also have you noticed any error codes on the display, is the FI indicator light going off?

[SVMAT]

FI light is on constant but i thought this was always the case until started :s prety sure the chec sign is up (ive walked home for tools now) so i think this means stand switch/ cut out switch or in gear with stand down. As for hitting the limiter i enjoy taking it through the revs in second once a week or so, like to clear her out lol.

[Owenski]

fair enough, wouldnt advise it its a limiter for a reason.

FI light should be on but if it wasnt then you've got a problem - (was my trail of thought)
Yeah make sure its not still in gear, that would be a facepalm moment.

Do you know how to get the bike into dealer mode so you can find the error code?

[mikerj]

fair enough, wouldnt advise it its a limiter for a reason.

:confused::confused:
Of course it's a limiter for a reason, it limits RPM below destructive levels. And OP didn't say he was bouncing it off the limiter, just that he hit it.

[Owenski]

He also said he did it from time to time, give me any context where taking something its limit on regular occasions is ever a good thing?
No matter what the application if u frequently stress something you weaken it, weaken it enough an you'll break it. Just cos the engine is limited what makes u think the other mechanical parts are built to the engines full capabilities rather than the limiters? There's a lot more to a modern bike than pistons and oil, engine will be fine as the limiter protects it but something else on the other hand seems to have been less fortunate, he said it himself... It happened when it hit the limiter.

[Dave20046]

Yep the fuses are under the seat, think you need just a 4mm and a 6mm allen key to whip it off (the infill plastic panels either side first). Check the fuses, think the one marked ignition will be worth double checking maybe even swap with a spare to be sure.
And as said check the simple things, killswitch , sidestand switch etc.

All dash and other lights/electrics working as normal?
He also said he did it from time to time, give me any context where taking something its limit on regular occasions is ever a good thing?
No matter what the application if u frequently stress something you weaken it, weaken it enough an you'll break it. Just cos the engine is limited what makes u think the other mechanical parts are built to the engines full capabilities rather than the limiters? There's a lot more to a modern bike than pistons and oil, engine will be fine as the limiter protects it but something else on the other hand seems to have been less fortunate, he said it himself... It happened when it hit the limiter.

As far as I'm aware the hammering limiter wouldn't cause a starting fault, think it can damage the valves or something. But I've got to admit to using it a fair bit on lower (than the sv) powered bikes without issue *touch wood*

[Owenski]

As far as I'm aware the hammering limiter wouldn't cause a starting fault, think it can damage the valves or something. But I've got to admit to using it a fair bit on lower (than the sv) powered bikes without issue *touch wood*

lol, we know your history dave using the limiter as a warning to old ladies that they've upset you with their driving style.
Problem wasnt a starting fault, it cut off whilst in use its only after the incident that its not starting.

Pretty sure if I challenged anyone to; stand next to thier bike while I stood next to mine holding my bike at 6000rpm and them bouncing thiers off the limiter to see who's went pop first, they'd tell me to get F***ed! Fair enough thats exagerating the terms but it explains the thinking behind my reasoning.

[SVMAT]

It was the fuel pump fuse!!! shes alive!!! never have i been more happy to hear that thing whine lol. and how courteous of suzi to grace me with 2 spares :P.

As for the limiter i often hit it when wheelieing etc and never had any probs. I have seen a mk2 golf gti drained of oil...sand poured in....bouncing of the rev limiter...took 15 mins to blow. I think the sv could do it all day :P

Thanks for the help and sugestions guys!

[Owenski]

. I have seen a mk2 golf gti drained of oil...sand poured in....bouncing of the rev limiter...took 15 mins to blow. I think the sv could do it all day :P

Thanks for the help and sugestions guys!

Was that some sort of test to destruction, lol ran on sand impressive.

Dont thank neone on here, I'd say you solved that by your self.

[mikerj]

Just cos the engine is limited what makes u think the other mechanical parts are built to the engines full capabilities rather than the limiters?

Because that's how it's designed. Suzuki will know what the safe limit of the engine is given the design life etc. and the limiter will be set to that value. They are hardly going to design an engine that's on the edge of grenading itself at 10,000RPM and then set the limiter to 11k.



Pretty sure if I challenged anyone to; stand next to thier bike while I stood next to mine holding my bike at 6000rpm and them bouncing thiers off the limiter to see who's went pop first, they'd tell me to get F***ed! Fair enough thats exagerating the terms but it explains the thinking behind my reasoning.

Flawed thinking however. He wasn't in neutral holding it against the limiter, he was accelerating in second and hit the limiter. It happens, that's why the limiter is there and the occasional trip to the red line isn't going to hurt it.

[Owenski]

Because that's how it's designed. Suzuki will know what the safe limit of the engine is given the design life etc. and the limiter will be set to that value. They are hardly going to design an engine that's on the edge of grenading itself at 10,000RPM and then set the limiter to 11k.

You're interpriting my comment the wrong way around, lol you basically just agreed with me.
In exagerated terms I was saying:
If the engine explodes a 15000rpm,
So its limiited to 12000rpm, = engine safe from Kaboom!
Do you think the rest of the parts, injectors, pumps, various valves connectors etc will be designed to withstand the 15000 or the 12000rpm?
You know as well as I do they'll be to the 12000 everytime, therefore when you're at the engines limiter - yes you're safe from blowing yourself up but you're likely to be at breaking point for many other of the odds and sods essential in making the bike run.



Flawed thinking however. He wasn't in neutral holding it against the limiter, he was accelerating in second and hit the limiter. It happens, that's why the limiter is there and the occasional trip to the red line isn't going to hurt it.

Occasional trip, hurt it. Maybe not - but you're missing the obvious
On this occastion he took it to the limiter and it went pop, maybe a fluke maybe not eitherway Im not about the change my habbits to include regular trips to the rev limiter and back.

[Dave20046]

lol, we know your history dave using the limiter as a warning to old ladies that they've upset you with their driving style.


That was a er isolated incident and to be honest my poxy horn wouldn't even be able to make a pensioner soil themselves...the revlimiter ,however, did the trick.

[mikerj]

If the engine explodes a 15000rpm,
So its limiited to 12000rpm, = engine safe from Kaboom!
Do you think the rest of the parts, injectors, pumps, various valves connectors etc will be designed to withstand the 15000 or the 12000rpm?
You know as well as I do they'll be to the 12000 everytime,


That's just silly, the engine as a unit will have a safe operating RPM, determined primarily by the valve train and bottom end fatigue strength. Injectors do not fail prematurely because you hit the rev limiter occasionally! Which connectors are likely to fail at high RPM? Which pumps?

All engine manufacturers spend thousands of hours longevity testing engines, they even run them continuously at the red line for hundreds of hours. It's in their own interests to make the engine reliable at all all engine speeds below the limiter purely to ensure minimal warranty work and to avoid giving themselves a bad reputation.

I'm not saying it's a good idea to hold an engine on the limiter continuously - it's not, but hitting the limiter occasionally is not going to significantly reduce it's life providing it's looked after.

[Owenski]

That was a er isolated incident and to be honest my poxy horn wouldn't even be able to make a pensioner soil themselves...the revlimiter ,however, did the trick.

The horn is a joke lol
its nice to know your aim is to make old ladies soil themselves ;) nice.


I'm not saying it's a good idea to hold an engine on the limiter continuously - it's not, but hitting the limiter occasionally is not going to significantly reduce it's life providing it's looked after.

Thank you,

[yorkie_chris]

Do you think the rest of the parts, injectors, pumps, various valves connectors etc will be designed to withstand the 15000 or the 12000rpm?

Yes, they'll be absolutely fine.

On curvy, carbs don't care, fuel going through a hole doesn't wear it out. The electrics are solid state.

Spark plugs? Meh. They'd be more damaged by transients like gently opening the throttle to move from 30 to 40mph.


Bits to worry about are crank, rods, valvegear. Stress is quadratic to rpm so more revs will mean more fatigue on rods, rod bolts, crank parts etc.

In practice they're fine. SV engine is strong enough to do 3 tanks of fuel one after another with it held flat out turning nearly 10k rpm.

Any wear issues would likely not show up for far longer than anyone would be likely to keep the bike for.



By the way, if you are unlucky you only need to go OVER the limiter ONCE with an over exuberant downshift to cause valve bounce, rod failure or something to completely grenade the engine.

[hongman]

SV engine is strong enough to do 3 tanks of fuel one after another with it held flat out turning nearly 10k rpm.


Sounds like there is a story beind this ;)

[yorkie_chris]

Not really, just had to be somewhere in a bit of a hurry

[hongman]

Loon!