View Full Version : Battery reverse connected. What's the damage?
hindle8907
09-12-10, 08:27 AM
Well my bike (2000 Curvy) has been sat in the warehouse at work for the last 3 days becuase my battery died, so I come to work this morning with a different battery out of my old bike.
Now Im not making excuses for my self :---) But it was dark, early and im really tired lol, any ways connect it all up and turn the key and nothing, i look down at the battery and to my horror see that i have got the connections the wrong way round !!! :(
removed the connections and placed the right way and try again, and still get nothing now the battery might be dead because its out of the bike I crashed a few month ago but was a solid battery before that and its been kept inside although not on charge.
what are the possible out comes of this ? :confused:
Cheers Ant.
Main fuse has probably blown. Replace fuse and try again with battery right way round.
hindle8907
09-12-10, 08:46 AM
Thanks for the reply stig well thats made me feel a bit better :)
My hayens manual is at home, can anyone point me in the right direction for a replacement fuse and where it is located on the bike.
beabert
09-12-10, 08:47 AM
Im not sure, id check fuses first. The battery is likely too low to start it after a few months uncharged anyway.
beabert
09-12-10, 08:49 AM
Thanks for the reply stig well thats made me feel a bit better :)
My hayens manual is at home, can anyone point me in the right direction for a replacement fuse and where it is located on the bike.
As you sitting on it the right side below the seat, take the black panel off to acess it iirc- mines a green housing. The other fuses are in the lil black box under the seat.
Yup main fuse is where beabert described. It's a 30amp fuse.
Oh and it's a large spade type fuse.
Looks like this
http://dnfus.com/images/fuses/ATM30.jpg?1177520306
yorkie_chris
09-12-10, 02:06 PM
Are any lights or anything switching on on the bike?
Feel free to give me a call if you get stuck
I can't see why the main fuse would blow but if anything's damaged I'd say it would be the ECU.
Hopefully though the battery you fitted is just knackered and that's why you got nothing.
How did you fit a battery backwards? I didn't think they physically allowed it.
EDIT: Just read that it's a curvy so no ECU to damage.
Battery must be dead putting it the wrong polarity wont kill anything.
yorkie_chris
10-12-10, 10:51 AM
EDIT: Just read that it's a curvy so no ECU to damage.
Where you think sparks come from? Magic?
fastdruid
10-12-10, 11:50 AM
I certainly thought it was magic pixies. Certainly the way the little f**kers down tools at the drop of a hat. ;-)
Druid
Did this in a car once and blew the diode pack in the alternator. Is this going to the one benefit of a reg/rec?
fastdruid
10-12-10, 12:00 PM
That a reg/rec is cheaper than an alternator?
Basically if you didn't turn it on then you may have damaged reg/rec. Very unlikely to blow the fuse as they blow with ampage not polarity. As you did turn it on you may have damaged: Reg/rec. CDI/ECU and Clocks.
How did you manage it though, from memory it would only go in one way and connect up one way.
Druid
Not understanding how a reg/rec works - will it blow the same as a diode pack? In any event it's cheaper to change the reg/rec than the diode pack and alternator.
Why don't bikes have a diode pack on the alternator like a car (sorry for slight derail)?
fastdruid
10-12-10, 12:20 PM
The reg/rec *is* for all intents and purposes a diode pack.
Druid
Thanks, so why do car's seem less prone to regulator failure?
yorkie_chris
10-12-10, 12:39 PM
They regulate in a different way, they have a charge coil which creates the magnetic field and controls it's strength. Basically you increase the current to the charge coil which increases the output.
They only really use the rectifier bit.
A bike is permanent magnet alternator so runs at full output all the time. The regulator has to control this either by switching the current on and off very rapidly (new MOSFET type) or by dumping a load of energy as heat to bring the voltage down (olde shunt type like stock SVs).
(N.B some bikes have charge coil bit just like a car alternator and no reg rec)
You learn something every day! Thanks.=D>
AndyBrad
10-12-10, 12:48 PM
is it just a cost/packaging thing then?
Where you think sparks come from? Magic?
The CDI.
yorkie_chris
10-12-10, 12:53 PM
The CDI.
The capacitor discharge ignition? Try again...
We're talking semantics here, but FYI the curvy uses an ECU, a microprocessor controlled chunk of solid state electrics,* to fire the spark. If you want to put a name on it, it's a transistor controlled ignition as it uses transistors to feed power to the coils and cut it to create a spark.
*Exactly the same as a pointy, just FAR simpler as it doesn't have to deal with fuelling too.
A CDI doesn't actually use coils, they charge a capacitor and dump that directly through the HT lead to fire the spark.
yorkie_chris
10-12-10, 12:55 PM
is it just a cost/packaging thing then?
Possibly packaging and weight.
The alternator on an oil boiling GSXR is driven by some gears, which are heavy. The alternator itself is also a fair chunk of rotating mass. Mechanically quite a bit more complicated than a permanent magnet one too. Compare that to a GSXR1000 one which uses some tiny rare-earth magnets on a flywheel, massive weight advantage.
fastdruid
10-12-10, 12:59 PM
Compare that to a GSXR1000 one which uses some tiny rare-earth magnets on a flywheel, massive weight advantage.
IIRC About 630g for the entire GSXR1000 flywheel, go compare that to the SV item or indeed something like a RVF400 which is IIRC 1.5kg!
Druid
fastdruid
10-12-10, 01:04 PM
The capacitor discharge ignition? Try again...
We're talking semantics here, but FYI the curvy uses an ECU, a microprocessor controlled chunk of solid state electrics,* to fire the spark. If you want to put a name on it, it's a transistor controlled ignition as it uses transistors to feed power to the coils and cut it to create a spark.
*Exactly the same as a pointy, just FAR simpler as it doesn't have to deal with fuelling too.
A CDI doesn't actually use coils, they charge a capacitor and dump that directly through the HT lead to fire the spark.
Er wrong I'm afraid, CDI still uses coils. Plus while it is an ECU it is essentially a computer controlling a CDI ign unit.
Druid
yorkie_chris
10-12-10, 01:07 PM
AFAIK the SV one simply uses a transistor which acts just the same as a set of points, the points open, the magnetic field in the coil collapses which fires the spark.
No capacitors involved at all beyond what's used in the timing electronics.
I had a trials bike with CDI, that was apparently directly CDI, maybe there was a coil hidden away in there somewhere but it must have been a bloody compact one as the "black box" was tiny.
Ok CDI with coil, discharges the capacitor into the coil to charge it. SV... coil is necessarily charged by current as they have a live feed. Not a feed from the "CDI" and an earth.
And anyway, while this is interesting you admit "it is an ECU", so to put it into the context of this discussion there are still some delicate electrics which it may be possible to fry?
fastdruid
10-12-10, 01:25 PM
No such thing as Direct CDI[1], although it might be a combined coil/CDI unit.
Typically the CDI is use to provide (IIRC) 400-600v to the coils to be upped to (IIRC) ~40kv.
While I can't find the exact details of the SV's ign unit, see for example
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignition_system#Digital_Electronic_Ignitions
Druid
yorkie_chris
10-12-10, 01:26 PM
You don't need exact details of it, just to see that it is driven by +12V and controlled by an earth, like points, and cannot be charged from the other side of the +12V supply by a capacitor.
I can't see why the main fuse would blow
The rectifier unit would be almost a short circuit with reverse polarity - the diodes inside would be forward biased and allow a lot of current to flow. That is assuming the rectifier/regulator is connected on the non-battery side of the main fuse...
Delicate electronics it is.
Fair enough.
Well my bike (2000 Curvy) has been sat in the warehouse at work for the last 3 days becuase my battery died, so I come to work this morning with a different battery out of my old bike.
Now Im not making excuses for my self :---) But it was dark, early and im really tired lol, any ways connect it all up and turn the key and nothing, i look down at the battery and to my horror see that i have got the connections the wrong way round !!! :(
removed the connections and placed the right way and try again, and still get nothing now the battery might be dead because its out of the bike I crashed a few month ago but was a solid battery before that and its been kept inside although not on charge.
what are the possible out comes of this ? :confused:
Cheers Ant.
Ant.
That battery isn't that old. I'm sure It's less than a year :confused:
Got it from batteryman on here mds batteries (http://www.mdsbattery.co.uk/departments/department001.asp?DepartmentName=Motorcycle+Batter ies&DepartmentID=155)
Do bike batteries have a warranty???
A bike is permanent magnet alternator so runs at full output all the time. The regulator has to control this either by switching the current on and off very rapidly (new MOSFET type) or by dumping a load of energy as heat to bring the voltage down (olde shunt type like stock SVs).
(N.B some bikes have charge coil bit just like a car alternator and no reg rec)
Do the FET ones still have a heatsink?
Hindle8907, i`ll be interested to know if you get away with just a recharged battery.
I connected my battery up the wrong way a few weeks ago as i wanted to make sure the pointy rear light and euro headlight all worked ok.
Couldnt believe it when I saw what id done, should know better in my line of work too :rolleyes:
The bikes been in bits, so havent even tried to start it, maybe a job in the next couple of weeks, so if Ive buggered it. Although not sure if reg/rec was connected as much of the bike was in bits.
Lee
yorkie_chris
10-12-10, 11:45 PM
Do the FET ones still have a heatsink?
Yes. They are power transistors to switch it on and off and still dissipate some heat. They don't get half as hot as shunt ones though.
punyXpress
11-12-10, 12:27 PM
. . .so in this weather it'd be a GOOD IDEA to put longer leads to your reg/rec & tuck it down yer kecks? ;)
Connected my battery up this evening, correctly this time, how will I know if I buggered up my reg/rec box?
Will the bike run ok, but not charge the battery, whats the speedo issue mentioned?
Cheers, Lee
yorkie_chris
12-12-10, 10:04 PM
Best way is to get a voltmeter and test it.
fastdruid
12-12-10, 10:30 PM
The speedo issue is that the speedo/tacho is a delicate instrument thats not designed to have 12v shoved the wrong way up it!
Hook it up, turn it on and see if it works.
Druid
sorry for the hijack hindle, looks like my speedo is ok, all light up, and the mileage display is ok too. Will put multi meter on it when I get it running in the next couple of weeks.
Sid Squid
13-12-10, 09:50 PM
If you didn't switch the ignition on, then you'll probably be OK.
SVs do not have CDI, they have a transistorised version of a coil and battery system, sometimes referred to as a Kettering system, (it was invented by Charles Kettering of the Dayton Engineering Laboratory Co Ltd - Delco - in about 1905 or so).
CDI systems do have an ignition coil, which may or may not be integrated into the ignition unit. CDI charge capacitor discharges through ignition coil when the spark is required.
A fuller explanation: Click me. (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?p=926191)
hindle8907
14-12-10, 01:38 PM
hello people,
Well I charged up the origional battery over the weekend and changed the x2 30amp fuses and she fired up fine,
speedo seems to be OK as all the lights ect ect , dont know if she's charging the battery though.
can some one explain how to test this with a multi meter please.
sorry for the late reply and thanks for the help just been a little busy lately not been on much.
beabert
14-12-10, 05:11 PM
When engine running just touch each terminal with the multimeter cables + to + - to -. Set it to the DC low voltage setting.
Should read between 13-15v
Test at idle, lights on full beam, and at a higher RPM, should always stay between those figures.
yorkie_chris
14-12-10, 06:05 PM
hello people,
Well I charged up the origional battery over the weekend and changed the x2 30amp fuses and she fired up fine,
speedo seems to be OK as all the lights ect ect , dont know if she's charging the battery though.
can some one explain how to test this with a multi meter please.
sorry for the late reply and thanks for the help just been a little busy lately not been on much.
You only needed to change one, there are 2 in there but one is a spare.
Didnt turn on the ign on mine, realised literally a second after id touched the connector onto the battery.
Near miss for us both then :D
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