removing exhaust bolts

[barwel1992]

whats the best least messy way to remove the header bolts ?

i was thinking about running the bike till about 90c then hitting them i with a drift then shut the bike off and spray with something like deodorant to cool them down quickly and try and undo them

any other suggestions?

ohh and what bolts should i replace them with ? or keep the stock ones and stick loads of coper grease on them ?

thanks

[rictus01]

I presume you mean the exhaust studs?, if so just run two nuts on the stud, lock them together and then undo the stud from the head.

if it's only the nuts you need to remove, then if the thread is that corroded then you'll probably find the stud comes out instead of the nut undoing anyway, but a nut splitter or if it's rounded then the next size down imperial socket from the metric one that should fit, sometimes works.

Cheers Mark.

[barwel1992]

i mean the bolts that attach the headers to the cylinder head

cheers :)

[rictus01]

they shouldn't be bolts unless they have been replaced at some point already, but something like this
http://www.superformance.co.uk/parts/1223f_308_exhaust_studs.jpg.

Cheers Mark.

[barwel1992]

ahh there cap head bolts

they dont look corroded so should come out ok then i suppose :)

[rictus01]

yeah and they aren't original either, a better solution when you come to re-fit is to use a slightly longer bolt and run a nut down to clamp the header in, this makes sure you're using the full length of the tapped thread within the head.

but replacement studs aren't expensive.

Cheers Mark.

[21QUEST]

ahh there cap head bolts

they dont look corroded so should come out ok then i suppose :)

Famous last words ;) .

Mate, your bike is a K3 and persoanlly, I wouldn't py much attention to 'how they look' lol. get some plus gas and buy one of those hand held Butane torch....mine cost about £10(maybe £15) from B&Q . Bit of plasticine/Blue Tack/rag or tissue to help with getting the Plus gas in the right place might be a good idea.

All the above might sound over the top but after years of taking exhausts off SVs without problem, my first problem definitely taught me that, it's better to go over the top...

By the way, the hedaer botls on the Pointy are cap head designs so bolts could be original. If they are original, even more reason to be extra careful. Do all the above and also make sure you clean the recess very well and use a good quality Hex Bit Socket...not some 'poundland' runbbish lol.

Good Luck :p

[andrewsmith]

By the way, the hedaer botls on the Pointy are cap head designs so bolts could be original. If they are original, even more reason to be extra careful. Do all the above and also make sure you clean the recess very well and use a good quality Hex Bit Socket...not some 'poundland' runbbish lol.

Good Luck :p

I second that!
I'm not touching mine with std sockets. Word of warning if the studs shear it will get very interesting.

[barwel1992]

ahh poop

how am i meant to get plus gas to seep in to threads that are only accessible from the bottom? :/

ooo good excuse to get something that makes fire i suppose :D

[punyXpress]

A sharp tap on the head of the bolt with a suitable implement might help free it.

[B1k3R]

.....Mate, your bike is a K3 and persoanlly, I wouldn't py much attention to 'how they look' lol. get some plus gas and buy one of those hand held Butane torch....

+1 You may be lucky. Heat and plus gas. Heat and plus gas. Remember the mantra

[Owenski]

if someone took the trouble to replace the annoying standard studs its seems a bit daft they wouldnt copper slip the replacements, have you tried to remove them and failed or are you just pre-emtping a failed attempt?

HEat and pentrants have already been adivsed, I have nothing further to add - note mine came out of the curvy using paul_the_6th, a whelder and a 80mile round trip.

[barwel1992]

if someone took the trouble to replace the annoying standard studs its seems a bit daft they wouldnt copper slip the replacements, have you tried to remove them and failed or are you just pre-emtping a failed attempt?

HEat and pentrants have already been adivsed, I have nothing further to add - note mine came out of the curvy using paul_the_6th, a whelder and a 80mile round trip.

i was pre-empting as every one seems to struggle getting them off.

hmm might try and do it at college as they have loads of stud extractors and stuf like that

[Owenski]

if thats the case then just have a go once you've run it up to temp u may be suprised.

[Dave20046]

if thats the case then just have a go once you've run it up to temp u may be suprised.

Aye, no point wasting time worrying about it before you've found there's a problem. Mine came straight out (and they were bent & seized looking). Replaced em with copperslip & ACF50 plastered stainless steel studs.

[barwel1992]

Aye, no point wasting time worrying about it before you've found there's a problem. Mine came straight out (and they were bent & seized looking). Replaced em with copperslip & ACF50 plastered stainless steel studs.

Dave were yours cap heads or studs ?

going to try and wip them out later as the bikes on axle stands and ratchet strapped to the sealing and the swing arm is coming off soon as well so might as well sort them out now and make it easier for when i take the cylinder's off

[mikerj]

they shouldn't be bolts unless they have been replaced at some point already

There was a thread on this fairly recently, the pointy has cap head bolts from the factory, or at least some years do.

They are difficult to remove but I got mine out with a combination of shock and by tightening them slightly first. Then I worked them back and forward constantly, increasing the motion in the anti-clockwise direction by about 1/8th turn each time and using lots of penetrating oil.

Just removed the exhaust from my dads curvy this evening and had to get a chisel onto the remnants of the nuts. It took quite a while but studs are definitely the way to go for exhaust manifolds.

[barwel1992]

.......... i snapped one......... with a 3/8th ratchet thats about 10cm long ........ F*CK ! didn't even put that much pressure on it it was moving then bam snap the bolt snapped about 5mm from the bolt head mole grips it is then ...

[B1k3R]

Not good. Heat. If you have not got a torch heat, until red hot, something like a poker and place it on the stud end to conduct the heat through it. Do this a good few times then plenty of plus gas. Remember hot things burn and can be dangerous.

The only thing that heat and plug gas didn't work on for me was a swing arm bolt from a 1980's bike.

[barwel1992]

ok the other one came out fine ... the bolts are A2 stainless im guessing these are not standard ?

hmm could heat it with the zippo ? lol :D

going to give the shard bit a hit to see if i can losen it off more then try the mole grips

going to remove the system so i have some more room to play with then try and get it out

[B1k3R]

It is damage limitation now. Scratching and skuffing anything around it and taking the skin off knuckles. Don't try the zippo. Good luck.

[21QUEST]

Bugger!! as they say...

But you know, sometimes, it pays not to listen to some folks... It wasn't about 'worrying about nothing' but about 'being prepared and giving ones self the best possible chance for a good outcome'....

Anyways,it's done now so it's time for a plan B ;)

Last thing you want to be doing is going crazy lol with the mole grip. That'd probably be next to useless(depending on how stuck bolt is...and by all accounts , it's pretty stuck). You just might end up chewing what is left of bolt anyway which would make things even more difficult.

Defintely get some plasticine/Blue tack/ whatever and build a reservoir around what is left of bolt. You can also use tissue/rag soaked with Plus gas(probably diesel too?). Let it simmer(not literally :-P ) for a while(day or so). Then heat too.

Hack saw(dremel or similar is better) to cut a slot so you can use a good quality flat blade screw driver. Slot needs to be as centred sqaure as possible and alo deep enough so you don't get any slipping of screw driver. Bits from an manual impact wrence probably be good here...use the biggest/biggest you can get away with.
You of course have to keep in mind the size of the bolt ie you still want to have enough meat left after cutting slot .

Anyhoos, I've rambled on a bit. Once again, good luck bud or you'd be needing to test out your drilling skills :smt103

Aye, I'm probably sounding over the top again :rolleyes: ;)

[thefallenangel]

or just drill and re-tap out hole and be done with it.

Pilot, then up to right size drill for metric tap. Think it's M8 but not 100% on it. Get stainless and big tub of copper grease.

[punyXpress]

+ after cutting the slot, put a nut on so the split stud doesn't spread even more.
Or : weld/braze a nut onto what is effectively a stud
Or : wait for YC

[andrewsmith]

Or : wait for YC

That would be me!!!
Don't fancy running the risk

[TamSV]

I claim no special knowledge but this is what I did with the studs on the curvy (which looked like Nik Naks)...

Penetrating oil of your choice (not sure how it runs uphill but it makes you feel better)
Heat (blowtorch)
Cold (freeze spray)
Impact (sharp tap with hammer)

Repeat

Remove stud (I used socket type extractor). If it's not coming out with reasonable force then repeat above steps again.

Patience is a virtue.

Good luck. :)

[Owenski]

at least with one out and the this one fubar you can still slip the header off, that'll expose more thread for you to attached a nut via a wheld.

[barwel1992]

header and system off (another sheard bolt under the left hand side near the stand) looks like most of the bolts are farked !

soaking bolt/stud in 3 in 1 over night (will get some plus gas) going to drop the head off tomorrow and try the slot trick if that does not work (will try tomorrow) then i will take it to college and use the pillar drill and use a stud remover

[punyXpress]

For some reason the front & rear bolts are different part numbers.
NE1 know why ?
( awaits flak fron MYC ) ;)

[timwilky]

People

I keep saying it, nobody listens. Stainless is brittle S4 even more so.

So be careful where you use it.

Oh and to remove, find a local company with spark eroder

[mikerj]

People

I keep saying it, nobody listens. Stainless is brittle S4 even more so.


Also stainless and aluminium in contact will promote electrolytic corrosion (more so than mild steel).

[_Stretchie_]

For next time, get a set of these

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_categoryId_1 65572_productId_530659_langId_-1?cm_mmc=Shopping-_-Google%20Product%20Search-_-Workshop+%26+Tools%2FTool+Sets-_-Halfords+Stud+Extractor+Set&source=shopping&istCompanyId=b8708c57-7a02-4cf6-b2c0-dc36b54a327e&istItemId=mptirp&istBid=t

I used Squirrell_Hunters to remove the rusty ones from the CBR400 and they are awesome, they gripped the whole of the shaft instead of just the end and came out really well

[toxic]

I keep saying it, nobody listens. Stainless is brittle S4 even more so.


Preaching to the choir on that one. Can you get titanium header bolts?

[barwel1992]

Preaching to the choir on that one. Can you get titanium header bolts?

any bolt that fits will work

ps theres about 15mm of stud in the head will buy a gas torch and some plus gas, then slot the stud and put a nut on it and try and screw it out

[yorkie_chris]

Noooo do NOT use a stud remover, for the love of God... unless you have an EDM machine too to get the broken stud extractor out?

Worry at them, heat them up, spray with plusgas, heat them up, spray with plusgas.

Only sort of stud remover you can use is the socket type which has cams inside to grip the protruding end.

Seriously, even the good stud extractor (easy out thingys) are horrible, to the point where they are harder to use and more risky than simply drilling the entire bolt out and picking the remains of the thread out.
If you cannot drill a straight hole, then learn how before you start on heads, snap some bolts in a scrap casting or something.



if someone took the trouble to replace the annoying standard studs its seems a bit daft they wouldnt copper slip the replacements, have you tried to remove them and failed or are you just pre-emtping a failed attempt?

HEat and pentrants have already been adivsed, I have nothing further to add - note mine came out of the curvy using paul_the_6th, a whelder and a 80mile round trip.

Pointies use those ****ing devilish cheap socket head bolts instead of studs. You thought studs were bad?

[yorkie_chris]

Also stainless and aluminium in contact will promote electrolytic corrosion (more so than mild steel).

It's honestly fine to use stainless, use plenty copperslip or ally anti seize compound. I've never had a problem with it compared to the absolute nightmares I've had with the mild steel ones used as standard.

[barwel1992]

Noooo do NOT use a stud remover, for the love of God... unless you have an EDM machine too to get the broken stud extractor out?

Worry at them, heat them up, spray with plusgas, heat them up, spray with plusgas.

Only sort of stud remover you can use is the socket type which has cams inside to grip the protruding end.

Seriously, even the good stud extractor (easy out thingys) are horrible, to the point where they are harder to use and more risky than simply drilling the entire bolt out and picking the remains of the thread out.
If you cannot drill a straight hole, then learn how before you start on heads, snap some bolts in a scrap casting or something.



have access to a pillar drill so straight is not a problem really lol plus i can drill straight also have left handed bits so the bolt might come out as i drill it (if i decide to do that)

will try heat first, can i get plus gas from halfrauds for like less than £200 ?

[yorkie_chris]

Huh? Plus gas is penetrating oil, couple of quid a tin. Better to buy from local motor factors, f**k halfords. Duck oil is OK too.

Pillar drill does not mean straight if you don't have a perpendicular reference surface to put on the table does it :rolleyes:
If your drill has tilting table that can be useful to get it straight.

Hand drill is good enough, like I said it is skill though.

Left hand drill bits are great for it.


My first port of call would be to use a socket type stud gripper on it, with heat and penetrating oil. If that doesn't work, weld a nut to it. Then try drill it.

[barwel1992]

Huh? Plus gas is penetrating oil, couple of quid a tin. Better to buy from local motor factors, f**k halfords. Duck oil is OK too.

Pillar drill does not mean straight if you don't have a perpendicular reference surface to put on the table does it :rolleyes:
If your drill has tilting table that can be useful to get it straight.

Hand drill is good enough, like I said it is skill though.

Left hand drill bits are great for it.


My first port of call would be to use a socket type stud gripper on it, with heat and penetrating oil. If that doesn't work, weld a nut to it. Then try drill it.

lol the £200 was tanking the pi$$ out of halfrauds prices .. :D

pillar drill is a floor mounted item with pivoting table(s), also have access to a mill no idea if that would work but that has pivoting and sliding tables and can take drill bits.

will have a look at the socket type gripper, but the threads are buggered on the stud and there's only about 5mm sticking out will it still work ?

[barwel1992]

somthing like this ?

LINK (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Stud-Extractor-Removal-Impact-3-8-Drive-6mm-13mm-/270564238399?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item3efee2a43f)

[yorkie_chris]

Yeah if it will grip it, might be pushing it with only 5mm to get hold of though. Worth a try.

Milling machines make brilliant drills, overkill, what's that?

When starting drilling out a bolt or something, grind it flat, carefully find center and punch it. Drill pilot at say 3mm then go in with a drill the same as the minor diameter of the thread. Then you can pick the remnants of the thread out like it was a crap helicoil.

I am not sure you will do much better with a mill/drill press than by hand drill, depends how good you are at setting the angle up. It is 100% all about the quality of the setup. Again you'd want to grind it flat and get a nice accurate punch mark.

[Specialone]

I once drilled 4 M12 locking wheels studs froma vauxhall astra cos id lost the removal key.
I drilled all 4 perfect and the coils just fell out, the engineers at the place i was working at the time couldnt believe id done it with a pistol drill.
Done exactly like Chris said, pilot drill first then worked way up.

Btw some studs get rediculously hard, ive got a honda 125cc engine with a broken exhaust stud, like it when i got it, tried drilling it, got about 5mm then it got stupid, used my bestest drills (tin coated jobbies, not cheap ones either), would hardly touch it.
May have to get my mate to spark erode it out.
Or cope with one stud, it is only for a go kart after all.

[barwel1992]

Yeah if it will grip it, might be pushing it with only 5mm to get hold of though. Worth a try.

Milling machines make brilliant drills, overkill, what's that?

When starting drilling out a bolt or something, grind it flat, carefully find center and punch it. Drill pilot at say 3mm then go in with a drill the same as the minor diameter of the thread. Then you can pick the remnants of the thread out like it was a crap helicoil.

I am not sure you will do much better with a mill/drill press than by hand drill, depends how good you are at setting the angle up. It is 100% all about the quality of the setup. Again you'd want to grind it flat and get a nice accurate punch mark.

lol, will get some one to help me if it comes down to drilling it

will try that tool then

if not will try the slot screwdriver and nut thing

then if not i will chop and grind it flat and drill it

I once drilled 4 M12 locking wheels studs froma vauxhall astra cos id lost the removal key.
I drilled all 4 perfect and the coils just fell out, the engineers at the place i was working at the time couldnt believe id done it with a pistol drill.
Done exactly like Chris said, pilot drill first then worked way up.

Btw some studs get rediculously hard, ive got a honda 125cc engine with a broken exhaust stud, like it when i got it, tried drilling it, got about 5mm then it got stupid, used my bestest drills (tin coated jobbies, not cheap ones either), would hardly touch it.
May have to get my mate to spark erode it out.
Or cope with one stud, it is only for a go kart after all.

LOL, cart should be ok with one as long as it seals properly

[mikerj]

MIG welding a nut to the exposed part of the stud has almost always worked for me, you get a fresh hex to turn and the thermal shock of the welding is effective in breaking the rust bond. You do need a reasonable amount of stud exposed for this to work though.

[barwel1992]

should i use titanium bolts as a replacement

[barwel1992]

seeing as i have 5mm of stud should i slot it and put a nut over it and try and get it out that way, or try the stud extractor EG the one posted some where above (the grip type)

im tempted to just try and slot it and but the bolt over it and get the wrench on it and see what i can do

i have heated and cooled it a fair bit and sprayed it with penetrating oil

[yorkie_chris]

Why do you want to slot it? You've no chance of turning it with a screwdriver.

[Smudge]

I had this prob with my RD350 and a snapped cylinder dowl I tried wheld and cutting a slot but in the end it was heat + WD40 + molegrips that worked.
make sure it's hot and there is plenty of thin oil.
Chris didn't you just dremel Dizzys and drill em out without effecting the original taps?

[barwel1992]

Why do you want to slot it? You've no chance of turning it with a screwdriver.

i have a ratchet flat blade screwdriver attachment ?

[Smudge]

Ok give that a go and then you'll see why!

[Sid Squid]

i have a ratchet flat blade screwdriver attachment ?
Don't even try, there'll be even less material to grip. Get the gripping stud extractor that you earlier mentioned and try that. A bit of heat and a sharp tap with a hammer and drift won't go amiss either.

[yorkie_chris]

i have a ratchet flat blade screwdriver attachment ?

It will just muller the end and you don't have enough length to waste on that.

If socket stud extractor doesn't work fire in with the welder.

[yorkie_chris]

Chris didn't you just dremel Dizzys and drill em out without effecting the original taps?

Different on curvy, I used a little die grinder to split the nuts then I could attack the studs easily.

[barwel1992]

ok cheers :)