Which brake line set up?

[Rob969]

I'm about to buy a new set of brake lines but was wondering what the pro's and con's are between race style or OEM i can see the obvious one which is the race set up is cheaper (2 lines instead of 3) but is there any other considerations.

Thanks

[maviczap]

If you have the race set up, then you'll still have one brake line, if one should fail.

If the line from the MC went on the OEM set up before the splitter, you'd have no brakes

[andrewsmith]

If you have the race set up, then you'll still have one brake line, if one should fail.

If the line from the MC went on the OEM set up before the splitter, you'd have no brakes

as mavi, like the race set-up for that reason and the extra pressure that the system has.

Rubber lines are better in winter as the braking force is less and reduces the risk of lock up (slightly- still no substitute for accidentally grabbing a handful!)

EDIT: SS's answer is correct.

[Rob969]

so no real downsides then. Probably order myself a set a race style then seen as though there cheaper

[andrewsmith]

look at Goodridge, Hel or Venhills websites as they sometimes was winter deals on the lines

[Rob969]

cheapest i've seen is venhill for about £45 and the other 2 for around £50

[Biker Biggles]

If you have the race set up, then you'll still have one brake line, if one should fail.

If the line from the MC went on the OEM set up before the splitter, you'd have no brakes

Is that right?At the MC both lines share a banjo bolt,and pressure goes equally through both lines.Surely if one line fails pressure is lost throughout the whole system?

[AndyBrad]

Is that right?At the MC both lines share a banjo bolt,and pressure goes equally through both lines.Surely if one line fails pressure is lost throughout the whole system?

thats what i thought.

race style will be easier to bleed and offer better brake feel. standard will look neater

[Sid Squid]

If you have the race set up, then you'll still have one brake line, if one should fail.

If the line from the MC went on the OEM set up before the splitter, you'd have no brakes
as mavi, like the race set-up for that reason and the extra pressure that the system has.

Rubber lines are better in winter as the braking force is less and reduces the risk of lock up (slightly- still no substitute for accidentally grabbing a handful!)
Completely wrong!

Is that right?At the MC both lines share a banjo bolt,and pressure goes equally through both lines.Surely if one line fails pressure is lost throughout the whole system?
Correct.

There is no functional benefit to either way, but a two line system is cheaper - the unions are by far the more expensive of the parts of the lines. A two line system simply has only four unions instead of the six that a three line system has.

If you want to do it the neatest way then take one hose from the master cylinder to the right caliper, then one from there over the mudgaurd to the the left caliper - sightly shorter overall line length.

[andrewsmith]

Completely wrong!


Correct.

There is no functional benefit to either way, but a two line system is cheaper - the unions are by far the more expensive of the parts of the lines. A two line system simply has only four unions instead of the six that a three line system has.

If you want to do it the neatest way then take one hose from the master cylinder to the right caliper, then one from there over the mudgaurd to the the left caliper - sightly shorter overall line length.

Stand corrected by SS

[Stonesie]

Is that right?At the MC both lines share a banjo bolt,and pressure goes equally through both lines.Surely if one line fails pressure is lost throughout the whole system?

I would agree with that, a car master cylinder has two independent pistons in it so that if a hose does fail then only half the system looses pressure... on the bike there is only one...


Ah NUTS, must type/spell check/post faster.

[maviczap]

Completely wrong!


Correct.

There is no functional benefit to either way, but a two line system is cheaper - the unions are by far the more expensive of the parts of the lines. A two line system simply has only four unions instead of the six that a three line system has.

If you want to do it the neatest way then take one hose from the master cylinder to the right caliper, then one from there over the mudgaurd to the the left caliper - sightly shorter overall line length.

Oops sorry SS, you are right, must have read it somewhere and stored it in my head as gospel

Here's Venhill's explanation

8320

[Sid Squid]

I would agree with that, a car master cylinder has two independent pistons in it so that if a hose does fail then only half the system looses pressure... on the bike there is only one...
Spot on, dual circuit brakes are something quite different.

There is a least one dual circuit alike brake master cylinder available for bike twin disc brakes, but I forget who made it. It actually functioned as a tandem system rather than the axially aligned, pressure operated, second system most commonly used in car brakes.
I have a memory that some BMs have dual circuit front brakes, maybe.

[rictus01]

Of course you could argue most bikes have dual circuit braking systems........ one for the front and one for the back.......;)


Cat/ pigeons and throw........

[AndyBrad]

lol :)

what about the blackbird then? ;)

i still maintain that a "race" setup is better.

[Sid Squid]

Of course you could argue most bikes have dual circuit braking systems........ one for the front and one for the back.......;)


Cat/ pigeons and throw........
I'll throw it back then ;).

No they don't - most have twp separate systems that are not interconnected.

i still maintain that a "race" setup is better.
Better how exactly?

[hongman]

Becuase it has the word "race" in it!


I'll grab my coat.

[Biker Biggles]

Spot on, dual circuit brakes are something quite different.

There is a least one dual circuit alike brake master cylinder available for bike twin disc brakes, but I forget who made it. It actually functioned as a tandem system rather than the axially aligned, pressure operated, second system most commonly used in car brakes.
I have a memory that some BMs have dual circuit front brakes, maybe.

I seem to remember that Moto Guzzi used a system where the "rear"brake pedal also operated one front disc,and the front brake lever acted on the other disc.
The latest Honda "fly by wire" system does appear to be a genuine innovation though.

[maviczap]

I seem to remember that Moto Guzzi used a system where the "rear"brake pedal also operated one front disc,and the front brake lever acted on the other disc.
The latest Honda "fly by wire" system does appear to be a genuine innovation though.

Yep my Guzzi Spada had this linked Brembo system

[Sid Squid]

I seem to remember that Moto Guzzi used a system where the "rear"brake pedal also operated one front disc,and the front brake lever acted on the other disc.
The latest Honda "fly by wire" system does appear to be a genuine innovation though.
Very true, they were not however 'dual circuit'. As you say the front brake lever operates one front caliper and the 'rear' brake lever operates the other front caliper and the rear brake - no interconnection between the systems and if the 'rear' brake system had a leak anywhere then the rest of that system would not operate either.
The whole point of dual circuit brakes is that one control operates two siamesed systems equally*, if any point in the two interconnected sub-systems fails the rest still functions.

*There may be a brake proprtioning valve that regulates pressure to the rear brakes dependant on suspension load.

[andrewsmith]

Very true, they were not however 'dual circuit'. As you say the front brake lever operates one front caliper and the 'rear' brake lever operates the other front caliper and the rear brake - no interconnection between the systems and if the 'rear' brake system had a leak anywhere then the rest of that system would not operate either.
The whole point of dual circuit brakes is that one control operates two siamesed systems equally*, if any point in the two interconnected sub-systems fails the rest still functions.

*There may be a brake proprtioning valve that regulates pressure to the rear brakes dependant on suspension load.

You implying systems like Honda's C-ABS system?

or the bias controllable systems used in Rallying

[Stonesie]

Most cars have some form of load dependant regulator for the rear brakes, if you are transporting a load of paving slabs for example, then it is useful to let the rear brakes do a bit more work, but running empty the same front to rear pressure ratio would lock the rear wheels... And let’s face it; most cagers would simultaneously pebbledash the seat and crash in that situation.

[Sid Squid]

You implying systems like Honda's C-ABS system?
Or the bias controllable systems used in Rallying
No.
Most cars have some form of load dependant regulator for the rear brakes.
Yes.