Police Clarification Required Please

[tactcom7]

Hi Policepersons of the org.

O.k so I have a company car and the tax disc expired at the end of December last year, apparently they usually post the new ones out direct to employees but due to Christmas (I assume) it hasn't arrived yet. I'm due to start back at work tomorrow and am just wondering if I am liable or the company for not displaying a valid tax disc.

I am 99% sure it has been taxed automatically, I just haven't received the disc yet.

On another note, my dad was stopped for speeding a few weeks back and told he had comitted 6 offences, 2 for speeding, 1 for not having the MOT certificate in the car, 1 for not having the insurance certificate and 1 for not having the V5 in his possession. ( he can't remember the other 1). The officer in question cautioned him and read him his rights and gave him a producer. Is this correct??

Cheers

Si

Edit: I'm not against him getting the producer, just the reading him his rights bit....

[Jabba]

Sounds like the copper was being ar$y or your dad might have misubderstood what he was told.

..... told he had comitted 6 offences, 2 for speeding, 1 for not having the MOT certificate in the car, 1 for not having the insurance certificate and 1 for not having the V5 in his possession.

It is not a legal requirement to carry the MOT Certificate, Insurance Certificate or V5 document with you whilst driving. It is also not an offence not to have your license with you.

In fact, it's better that you don't. You aren't going to want to carry then round with you after parking the vehicle and you certainly don't want to go leaving them in the vehicle.........

[MisterTommyH]

Not a police person, but I think it's You who's responsible. Could be a good excuse not to turn up in the morning - "Sorry boss I couldn't legally use the car you're contractually obliged to provide for me".

Whats the problem with being read you rights? Doesn't mean you're arrested unless they say you're under arrest - just making you aware what your rights are (I think). In a previous job I've been present when people have been read their rights by Civil Servants (they just have to be trained in PACE). It's just covering their backs so if it does get to court they can repeat anythin he said.

Edit: Jabba, my understanding was that it actually was a legal requirement to be able to provide you documents upon request, and we'd all been getting the benefit of the doubt for the past few years just getting producers. (Although I agree that it's not a good idea to carry them).

[tactcom7]

Cheers Jabba, that's my dad squared away, do you know about the tax disc thing as well?

[Milky Bar Kid]

Sounds like the copper was being ar$y or your dad might have misubderstood what he was told.



It is not a legal requirement to carry the MOT Certificate, Insurance Certificate or V5 document with you whilst driving. It is also not an offence not to have your license with you.

In fact, it's better that you don't. You aren't going to want to carry then round with you after parking the vehicle and you certainly don't want to go leaving them in the vehicle.........


Incorrect. TECHNICALLY, it is a requirement, however, I've never heard about a V5. Anyway, technically, to the letter of the law, you are meant to have those items with you but the subsection which brings the producers, or HO/RT1's into play, sort of cover it so it allows you 7 days to produce at the Police station. Mind you, dunno why the copper was making such a big deal out of it, I know I never would have providing the control room confirmed the tax, mot and insurance were in order!

With regards to the tax disc situation, we have certainly been advised that due to adverse weather conditions and the difficulty in delivery that we are to exercise some discretion regarding discs, ie, if yours only expired at the end of December, then you should be ok, however, if it expired in June and you try and tell me you don't have it because of the snow....:rolleyes: .

HTH.

[tactcom7]

Thanks MBK for the swift and informative reply, just hope the coppers down here are as generous :)

Edit, thanks to the others too :)

[Milky Bar Kid]

Tactcom, it's a directive that's come from the DVLA so should see you right enough.

[Milky Bar Kid]

Just to explain a wee bit more, he will have been cautioning him so that if it did turn out your dad didnt have insurance or whatever, then it's actually in fairness to your Dad so he knows his rights and that anything he says could be used in court...that make sense??

I caution people every day at work, it doesn't necessarily mean the person has committed an offence though.

[Ch00]

With regards to the tax disc situation, we have certainly been advised that due to adverse weather conditions and the difficulty in delivery that we are to exercise some discretion regarding discs, ie, if yours only expired at the end of December, then you should be ok, however, if it expired in June and you try and tell me you don't have it because of the snow....:rolleyes: .

HTH.

+1

If you get a cop on a bad day it can be £60 fine made out to the driver for failing to display tax - which doesnt matter if its even in the post.

[Littlepeahead]

+1

If you get a cop on a bad day it can be £60 fine made out to the driver for failing to display tax - which doesnt matter if its even in the post.

Our physio got his lease car towed just before Christmas from outside his house as his tax had run out and he hadn't realised. Turned out the lease company had received the disc but forgot to post it on to him. They covered all the costs relating to him getting his car out of the pound and the fines but he still had all the inconvenience and no car all weekend.

[MisterTommyH]

Incorrect. TECHNICALLY, it is a requirement, however, I've never heard about a V5. Anyway, technically, to the letter of the law, you are meant to have those items with you but the subsection which brings the producers, or HO/RT1's into play, sort of cover it so it allows you 7 days to produce at the Police station. Mind you, dunno why the copper was making such a big deal out of it, I know I never would have providing the control room confirmed the tax, mot and insurance were in order!

With regards to the tax disc situation, we have certainly been advised that due to adverse weather conditions and the difficulty in delivery that we are to exercise some discretion regarding discs, ie, if yours only expired at the end of December, then you should be ok, however, if it expired in June and you try and tell me you don't have it because of the snow....:rolleyes: .

HTH.

Just to explain a wee bit more, he will have been cautioning him so that if it did turn out your dad didnt have insurance or whatever, then it's actually in fairness to your Dad so he knows his rights and that anything he says could be used in court...that make sense??

I caution people every day at work, it doesn't necessarily mean the person has committed an offence though.

^^^^ Thats what I meant to say.

[appollo1]

Interesting Thread as this has just reminded me that the Tax was due to be renewed on the Ambulance car I drive at the end of December. last year was a complete farce trying to get the disc as it was sent to the regional HQ.

Not been out in the car for a few days but due to go out on Wednesday night!!

[Biker Biggles]

Interesting Thread as this has just reminded me that the Tax was due to be renewed on the Ambulance car I drive at the end of December. last year was a complete farce trying to get the disc as it was sent to the regional HQ.

Not been out in the car for a few days but due to go out on Wednesday night!!

Wel if you only drive it "at the end of December" they have plenty of time to get the disc to you.;)

[tactcom7]

Yep much clearer, thanks MBK.

[tactcom7]

Well my tax disc arrived at the office today so will probably get it in the post Monday.

Apparently the lady who chased it up was told i had till the 11th of jan to swap it over. After that date I would be in trouble....

[Jimmy2Feet]

i have been driving company cars for the last 5/6 years, and my understanding was that it is down to the person driving the car to ensure that the car it taxed and disk is displayed.

At the same time if you let someone else ride your bike and there is no tax i believe the rider to be the one in trouble not the owner.

as for MBK saying that they have been told to give some discretion i again assume that every force will be different let alone each of the individual officers!!

But at the same time, i have always believed it to be the case that if you need to take a car/bike etc to a single place to be able to tax/mot it (IE post office, mot center etc) that you are able to do that within the law, i.e you could drive to work without displaying the tax disk being that you are aware that the disk is at your place of work awaiting you.

that is just my understanding however, please don't quote me on that! :)

[Milky Bar Kid]

i have been driving company cars for the last 5/6 years, and my understanding was that it is down to the person driving the car to ensure that the car it taxed and disk is displayed.

At the same time if you let someone else ride your bike and there is no tax i believe the rider to be the one in trouble not the owner.

as for MBK saying that they have been told to give some discretion i again assume that every force will be different let alone each of the individual officers!!

But at the same time, i have always believed it to be the case that if you need to take a car/bike etc to a single place to be able to tax/mot it (IE post office, mot center etc) that you are able to do that within the law, i.e you could drive to work without displaying the tax disk being that you are aware that the disk is at your place of work awaiting you.

that is just my understanding however, please don't quote me on that! :)


No, if you read what I had written correctly, this is an INSTRUCTION from the DVLA and the discretion was in relation to people telling us they didn't have tax because of the snow but their tax expired in like June or July.

And no, you are getting confused with the MOT rules. Not tax, don't drive on the road.

[yorkie_chris]

At the same time if you let someone else ride your bike and there is no tax i believe the rider to be the one in trouble not the owner.

AFAIK the rider/driver is always liable, I believe the only time an owner is liable is if they knowingly permit someone to drive their vehicle without insurance.

[Jimmy2Feet]

No, if you read what I had written correctly, this is an INSTRUCTION from the DVLA and the discretion was in relation to people telling us they didn't have tax because of the snow but their tax expired in like June or July.

And no, you are getting confused with the MOT rules. Not tax, don't drive on the road.

Sorry i missread your post, and i have learnt something new today with the tax thing. was i right with the MOT bit? i.e if car taxed but MOT runs out can you drive it directly to the test center?

[yorkie_chris]

i.e if car taxed but MOT runs out can you drive it directly to the test center?

Yes you can drive to a pre arranged MOT and back or to get any MOT defects fixed.

[Jimmy2Feet]

Yes you can drive to a pre arranged MOT and back or to get any MOT defects fixed.


ok so i was half correct!! :D makes me feel a little better!

but not without tax. what if the car has not got tax, and needs an MOT to be able to tax it? would you need to tow it?

[Dicky Ticker]

Pre-arranged requisite being essential as you need the MOT before you can tax a car over 3 years old. No you can drive on the public road to the test station.

[yorkie_chris]

ok so i was half correct!! :D makes me feel a little better!

but not without tax. what if the car has not got tax, and needs an MOT to be able to tax it? would you need to tow it?

No you don't need tax to go to an MOT, just insurance

[Jimmy2Feet]

so scinario time, If you were to buy a new bike lets say that has no tax or MOT. if i was to insure it and book in for the MOT for the afternoon of the day it was purchased, would i be able to pick up and ride it to the MOT center, then pick back up again and take home? then obveously be able to go to post office and tax it?

but if it was MOT'd but no tax i would need to purchase the tax prior to purchase to be able to ride it, and as i dont have the correct doc i would therefore need to use a trailor etc to get it home?

correct?

[Amanda M]

I've bought bikes with a MOT but no tax before and all I did was take my insurance certificate, MOT and the green slip from the V5 to the post office and got the tax there and then so I could ride the bike home :) Easy peasy (if there's a local post office that is...).

[Jimmy2Feet]

if no post office close, what do the police of the org think they would do it the person has no tax, but had just purchased the bike and was on the way to the post office to tax it?

[yorkie_chris]

so scinario time, If you were to buy a new bike lets say that has no tax or MOT. if i was to insure it and book in for the MOT for the afternoon of the day it was purchased, would i be able to pick up and ride it to the MOT center, then pick back up again and take home? then obveously be able to go to post office and tax it?

but if it was MOT'd but no tax i would need to purchase the tax prior to purchase to be able to ride it, and as i dont have the correct doc i would therefore need to use a trailor etc to get it home?

correct?

First scenario, fine as far as I can see, you are on your way (directly) to a pre arranged MOT, nothing that says you have to start from home.
What's this about picking it back up again after MOT? Go somewhere that does MOT while you wait and watch, none of this kwik-fit BS. You get bad coffee and a shafting up the *rse with the bill too? :smt119

Second scenario, yes you would, but it's only a modest fine so you'd just weigh up the risk of getting caught and booked. Or you could take the docs to the post office before riding which would be the correct course of action.

Most of the difficulties stem from insurance companies being slow to send out your docs.

[husky03]

if no post office close, what do the police of the org think they would do it the person has no tax, but had just purchased the bike and was on the way to the post office to tax it?


i'd see how you measure up to my mind test-if your decent with me thats a pass, if you got no crim record thats a pass, if your bikes good nick and you got all documents and readies to pay for tax thats a pass, and most importantly if you support the right team thats a pass:p-all of these and i'd follow you to the nearest po to get your tax.(i'm only kiddin on the footie thing though-no i'm not, yes i am ,no i'm not , yes i am,no i'm not, yes i am ,no i'm not , yes i am,no i'm not, yes i am ,no i'm not , yes i am,no i'm not, yes i am ,no i'm not , yes i am,etc,etc , etc)