busa piston swap - work in progress

[barwel1992]

well as some may know im fitting busa pistons to my sv, well finally the wheel is turning

got the pistons, received the head and base gaskets, received the piston rings

so today i was bored (as usual) so decided id start on this project


first off i cleaned the pistons, picked 2 out of the 4 pistons and pins i have and decided to ring them up

hears some pics

£45 worth of piston rings (i didn't pay that)
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/DSC_0264.jpg

oil'd up and cleaned up
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/DSC_0265.jpg

oil rings on
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/DSC_0269.jpg

rest of the rings on
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/DSC_0281.jpg

pin part way in, oild up and then pushed home as it will sit around for a while
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/DSC_0283.jpg

both pistons done for now until i come to fit them, then i will align the rings as i no doubt will knock them out of alignment before i put them in
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/DSC_0292.jpg

thats all for now

Price so far

1.) £100 for 4 hayabusa pistons inc delivery from the us of a

2.) £100 for 2 sets of piston rings and 2 head gaskets and 2 base gaskets, steal of a price considering a set of piston rings are £45 each and the gaskets are more than £10 each

will update as stuff moves on

Dan

[husky03]

whats gonna be the benefit of this swap Dan?

[speedplay]

whats gonna be the benefit of this swap Dan?


TY, was wondering this myself :)

[hardhat_harry]

Lighter pistons they are meant to spin up faster and less stress on crank.

Marginally bigger.

Seems to be a favourite with the US guys but really only of benefit if you after the very last bit of performance. If you could get a ECU with higher rev limit there might be benefit then.

[husky03]

hmmm-so in my case if i lost about six/seven stone i'd probably benefit just as much

[speedplay]

Probably be about the same as having a decent curry and a crap then?

[barwel1992]

Lighter pistons they are meant to spin up faster and less stress on crank.

Marginally bigger.

Seems to be a favourite with the US guys but really only of benefit if you after the very last bit of performance. If you could get a ECU with higher rev limit there might be benefit then.

yup that, my bike already revs more than it should i have seen 12.5k on the rev gage direct from coil

hmmm-so in my case if i lost about six/seven stone i'd probably benefit just as much

i could do that as well but im lazy lol

Probably be about the same as having a decent curry and a crap then?

yup ;)


Im increasing the compression as well, and advancing the ignition. I wouldn't expect the pistons to do much on there own but collectivity they might give an increase

[barwel1992]

all the tech info like size's and "stuf" is hear LINK (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=160457&highlight=busa+pistons)

[husky03]

cheers mate

[barwel1992]

cheers mate

i have 2 pistons left and pins £50+P&P ;)

[Rai86]

Why not just get some wiseco race ones? just outta interest

I know they are pricey but if you are doing a performance mod...

[hardhat_harry]

Prob coz they are £200+ a set, you can go mad and get an 850cc set and bore it out. Dont think the crank would hold out for long though.

I also think the Wiseco ones are heavier.

[hardhat_harry]

yup that, my bike already revs more than it should i have seen 12.5k on the rev gage direct from coil




I thought the rev limit was electronic at 11.5k so anything you would do to the engine wouldn't change it.

[yorkie_chris]

Why not just get some wiseco race ones? just outta interest

I know they are pricey but if you are doing a performance mod...

Wiseco weigh a ton and have been shown to fail. Not worth the price.

CP is where I'd look if I wanted big bore.

I thought the rev limit was electronic at 11.5k so anything you would do to the engine wouldn't change it.

Some K3s slipped through with no rev limiter.

I would not make a habit of going over rev limit, busa pistons or not. For a start there is no more power up there.

[barwel1992]

Wiseco weigh a ton and have been shown to fail. Not worth the price.

CP is where I'd look if I wanted big bore.

to rai's question ^ that


Some K3s slipped through with no rev limiter.

I would not make a habit of going over rev limit, busa pistons or not. For a start there is no more power up there.

naa i dont, i just slipped a gear and 12.5k flashed up. would replacing the ecu sort the problem out ?

[yorkie_chris]

Rev limiter is part of the ECU function so yes. Not sure whether later ones would fit

[barwel1992]

Rev limiter is part of the ECU function so yes. Not sure whether later ones would fit

the restricted ecu is the same from k3-6 so the stock ecu from a k4-6 might work

[yorkie_chris]

I would say it's pretty certain it will. AFAIK it is only K3s had the limiter issue, but maybe K4s too. But it did only affect some K3 so maybe you'd be fine just swapping for another of same year.

[barwel1992]

yeh, will have a look around

bike will be back on the road before i get round to doing the piston swaps as i kinda need it but first to sort out the snapped exhaust stud, if i cant get it out when my bloody tool comes. if i end up dropping the head cuz it wont come out im just going to do the piston swap there and then

[Berlin]

Are you haveing any crank work done to compensate for the lighter Busa pistons? Or is this not required?

I was under the impression that crank was balanced to Pistons and visa versa.

I remember changing some two stroke pistons and leaving the crank the same and you couldn't (literally) hold the bars over 5000 rpm. Even after crank work is was way buzzier than before the swap.

C

[barwel1992]

Are you haveing any crank work done to compensate for the lighter Busa pistons? Or is this not required?

I was under the impression that crank was balanced to Pistons and visa versa.

I remember changing some two stroke pistons and leaving the crank the same and you couldn't (literally) hold the bars over 5000 rpm. Even after crank work is was way buzzier than before the swap.

C

if they were any lighter then the crank would need doing, but apparently its ok without it done :bounce:

[barwel1992]

well go a bit more done today

bike started out as a fully running and rolling minus the exhaust

......

i proceeded to strip it down

http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/09012011623.jpg

im dropping the swing arm off as well, but dont have a 19mm hex socket :/

its all a bit sh*tty :p

http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/09012011618.jpg

so far i have the air box off the TBs un hooked and the rear cylinder head off, rad off and other bits, will take the rear cylinder off tomorrow and then move on to the front, going to try and get the cylinders hone'd this week some time

http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/09012011624.jpg
valves dont look to good

[barwel1992]

so all the heads and barrells off yesterday cleaned chambers sorted the bike for the new pistons, just need to make a phone call and get barrel's honed and stick it all back together

http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/10012011634.jpg

http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/10012011632.jpg

http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/11012011635.jpg

also go a new clock bracket made that i designed

http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/10012011631.jpg

http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/10012011629.jpg

http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/10012011630.jpg

just sanded and primed it going to paint it black

:D

[Ed]

Impressive, that looks really clean. But in the kitchen...:o

[barwel1992]

lmao thanks :) thats exactly what the gf said :D

[andrewsmith]

Has your mother not tried to kill you with a conrod yet?

[Stig]

That's what kitchens are for are they not? Food comes from takeaways. :)

[Reeder]

Not meaning to derail, but quick question.
What are sv's meant to rev to? Mine's an 05 and I swear I've seen 12k+ when missing 1st to 2nd.

[ThEGr33k]

Man looking at those heads, I didnt realise how badly designed the intake route is, its a right bend the air/fuel has to go through from carb/injector to the cylinder.

[andrewsmith]

Not meaning to derail, but quick question.
What are sv's meant to rev to? Mine's an 05 and I swear I've seen 12k+ when missing 1st to 2nd.

Limiter is around 11.5k redline 10.5k
You may have a one that slipped through the net

[barwel1992]

lol mums ok as long as ita kept clean,

Yeh the inlet is a bit pants and ita hard to port/polish because its so tight and has the bend in it

Mine rev's to 13k untill it hits some wall maybe injectors cant keep up but it defo goes past 12.5k

Im tempted to get another ecu as i dont like not having a limiter

Sent from phone

[yorkie_chris]

Get it on a dyno and find out with a calibrated tacho, as the clocks can lie.

[barwel1992]

Get it on a dyno and find out with a calibrated tacho, as the clocks can lie.

even running direct from the front coil ? using a vapor was the same with stock clocks

[_Stretchie_]

Yeah get it dyno'd then you'll know where the power starts to drop.

You might hit peak power at 11.5k for example so carrying on for the next 1k revs is pointless, you might as well be in the next gear

[barwel1992]

well cylinders are off for a hone

just been doing some other bits and bobs

cleaned up a few bits
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/14012011640.jpg

cleaned and greased
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/14012011636.jpg

clock bracket been painted, just waiting for the lacquer to set
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/14012011641.jpg

[barwel1992]

this is turning in to more of a general winter clean up and mod thread :p

removed the swing arm
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/15012011645.jpg

cleaned, not fully but its a start
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/15012011648.jpg

[Jayneflakes]

That Swing arm would lovely with a deep brace welded to the bottom and some billet wheel fitting plates welded on the ends. Then mirror polished to perfection, not to give you any more ideas!

Hugs
:D

[barwel1992]

That Swing arm would lovely with a deep brace welded to the bottom and some billet wheel fitting plates welded on the ends. Then mirror polished to perfection, not to give you any more ideas!

Hugs
:D

:smt093

not a bad idea :rolleyes: :smt082

[andrewsmith]

I thought my swingarm was bad at the pivot!

Right the WD40 and swearing is being applied tomorrow

[barwel1992]

I thought my swingarm was bad at the pivot!

Right the WD40 and swearing is being applied tomorrow

i just used paraffin that sort of worked (the pic of it clean (ish)) and then alloy wheel cleaner that worked a bit as well around the welds, will get the paraffin out again tomorrow and strip the grease out of the bearings and get it all greased up again.

then will clean the engine casing and frame at the rear.

picking barrels up on Monday

should have it back together by wen/Thursday

[andrewsmith]

Thats the only thing i wouldn't use around the pivot, incase it got in the bearings and wrecked them

[barwel1992]

yeh i left the spacers in when had the ally cleaner on it, paraffin is ok to use as long as you leave it to dry properly

[_Stretchie_]

Me and Squirrell bought PJ's old SV, 70k on the clock and not right clean, I got the swing arm and frame clean with degreaser and a paint brush.

[andrewsmith]

Me and Squirrell bought PJ's old SV, 70k on the clock and not right clean, I got the swing arm and frame clean with degreaser and a paint brush.

How long did that take then?
Took me 2 hours with petrol to do one a wee while back

[Jayneflakes]

I will gladly provide tea and verbal and/or physical abuse to anyone brave enough to give my SV a deep clean for me. I do like the idea of a deep brace on the swing arm, been thinking that my bike needed one for a while, just for the aesthetic though rather than to remove flex.

[andrewsmith]

I will gladly provide tea and verbal and/or physical abuse to anyone brave enough to give my SV a deep clean for me. I do like the idea of a deep brace on the swing arm, been thinking that my bike needed one for a while, just for the aesthetic though rather than to remove flex.

Could always swap it for a GSXR swingarm, shock and tire :D

[barwel1992]

to be honest the stock swing arm is cr&p the adjusters are awful the design is bland and looks cheep (probs cuz it is lol) its the one of the worse bits of the bike after the suspension, the sv1000 swing arm is much nicer

[andrewsmith]

tis is a budget bike.

If you wanted a posh v twin you'd go buy a 696/ 796 monster/ hypermotrad or a 800ss

[barwel1992]

tis is a budget bike.

If you wanted a posh v twin you'd go buy a 696/ 796 monster/ hypermotrad or a 800ss

yup, but the curvy swing arm looks better and that was a budget bike

and wheres the fun in buying a posh bike ....

[andrewsmith]

true true

The curvy swingarm is a more robust thing

[Stig]

JMC swingarm?

[andrewsmith]

JMC swingarm?

not at 17 months and £170 or what ever it took tolados (apols if I've got that wrong mate!) to get his made up

[Stig]

not at 17 months and £170 or what ever it took tolados (apols if I've got that wrong mate!) to get his made up

Yeah I read that thread. But one persons bad experience doesn't mean everyone elses is going to be the same.

[andrewsmith]

Yeah I read that thread. But one persons bad experience doesn't mean everyone elses is going to be the same.

definitely not at £600 for a top braced.
Shouldn't tar with the same brush but I'd be wary

[Stig]

definitely not at £600 for a top braced.
Shouldn't tar with the same brush but I'd be wary

Yup I'd probably be just the just as wary if I had heard bad reports. But a JMC does look bloody good on an SV. Well on a curvy it does. :)

[andrewsmith]

We should stop was well be giving Barwel and squirrel_hunter ideas ;)

[Stig]

I don't mind. It's not my money they would be using. :)

[barwel1992]

i love the look of them but not the price tag

hmm i know a few people that can weld maybe a bottom brace would look nice ;)

then have it powder coated silver.

any how next thing to tackle is the tank and tail unit as the paint is shoddy and the tank was starting to rust where it had chips so sanded it back and clear coated it as a temp fix

[barwel1992]

ohh and a few bits and bobs that were scruffy

http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/15012011649.jpg

[hardhat_harry]

Anyone got a picture of a JMC Swingarm?

[squirrel_hunter]

We should stop was well be giving Barwel and squirrel_hunter ideas ;)

No need to worry about that, Squirrel has plenty of ideas about swing arms... And JMC is not one of them...

@Barwel, who's doing your cylinder work? And is that an original shock you have there?

[_Stretchie_]

How long did that take then?
Took me 2 hours with petrol to do one a wee while back

Not too long, took about an hour for the frame and the swing arm.

Got a litre bottle of 'Gunk' degreaser as needed to clean the engine bay and underside of the Disco for the MOT so just put some in a measuring jug and got a paint brush on the job. Cut the brustles a little shorter, but not too short or it'll just spray everywhere when you are brushing, but if too long you won't be able to work in it through the grease.

Brush it in and spray it off with a hose, pressure washers even better

Turned out really well.

[barwel1992]

No need to worry about that, Squirrel has plenty of ideas about swing arms... And JMC is not one of them...

@Barwel, who's doing your cylinder work? And is that an original shock you have there?

a place called engine power in Coventry they make boat engines and truck stuff :)

and its a gsxr 1000 k3 (i think) shock cant rember what year it is exactly lol

[andrewsmith]

Not too long, took about an hour for the frame and the swing arm.

Got a litre bottle of 'Gunk' degreaser as needed to clean the engine bay and underside of the Disco for the MOT so just put some in a measuring jug and got a paint brush on the job. Cut the brustles a little shorter, but not too short or it'll just spray everywhere when you are brushing, but if too long you won't be able to work in it through the grease.

Brush it in and spray it off with a hose, pressure washers even better

Turned out really well.

Shame that the stuff rots rubber gloves, plastic veg trays and paint brushes (eventually).

Used it on the 2 rear calipers that needed a proper clean, refurbed them a treat.

[_Stretchie_]

Shame that the stuff rots rubber gloves, plastic veg trays and paint brushes (eventually).

Store it in the tin then
:D

[andrewsmith]

Store it in the tin then
:D

Touche

[barwel1992]

ohh f*ck just tried the drill out the exhaust stud with a drill extractor and it faild miserably so going to tap it or heli coil it

what do you think tap or coil ? ps what size should i tap it to if im going down that rout ? M10 ?

[DarrenSV650S]

When mine snapped someone more mechanically capable than me made up a block of metal which bolted on to the good bolt and was used as a guide so that the snapped stud could be drilled out. Then a tap was used to get out the last of the metal from the original threads. So don't go for a larger tap straight away

[barwel1992]

When mine snapped someone more mechanically capable than me made up a block of metal which bolted on to the good bolt and was used as a guide so that the snapped stud could be drilled out. Then a tap was used to get out the last of the metal from the original threads. So don't go for a larger tap straight away

think the threads are already gone, will check though

[Stonesie]

Timesert is far, far better than helicoil, the local machine shop helicoiled an exhaust stud on my car and in the drilling they nicked the oil way... I've tried everything I can think of and some ideas my mates came up with and it still weeps oil, a Timesert would have been oil tight with nothing more adventurous than thread lock.


http://www.timesert.co.uk/time-sert.php

[barwel1992]

a fair few more ££ though as i can get helicoil for free, the hole is also all ready there so no problems with going to deep

[Stig]

Anyone got a picture of a JMC Swingarm?

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x241/dirtydog88/IMGP0161.jpg

dirtydogs SV.

[Reeder]

Why would you want that swing arm?

[beabert]

Why would you want that swing arm?

Cant be for looks lol, i assume weight.

[Reeder]

Cant be for looks lol, i assume weight.

:smt082

[Stig]

Well I think it looks better than the stock swingarm. :???:

[hardhat_harry]

Deffo not fitting that it looks terrible far too old school.

[Reeder]

Well I think it looks better than the stock swingarm. :???:

People your age seem to have quite an aquired taste though.

[_Stretchie_]

Well I think it looks better than the stock swingarm. :???:


You got a point there.

Squirrel has always said that Suzuki stopped designing the SV when it got to the swing arm.

[Stig]

People your age seem to have quite an aquired taste though.

Taste gets better with age young man. :wink:

You got a point there.

Squirrel has always said that Suzuki stopped designing the SV when it got to the swing arm.

I'd agree with that. Budget bike built to a price. By the time they got to the swingarm maybe they realised they had run out of money so just cobbled a piece of junk together and said 'that'll do'.

[andrewsmith]

I'd agree with that. Budget bike built to a price. By the time they got to the swingarm maybe they realised they had run out of money so just cobbled a piece of junk together and said 'that'll do'.

Defo was, they seem to be doing it with the High end bikes now.

A honda pro link would look good on a curvy

[Jayneflakes]

I have to say that I think that asthetically, the SV arm fails by a long way. The Curvy frame is gorgeous and the pointy one is nice, so chucking a cheap, boxy arm in there makes it look pants.

If I had the cash, I would have something similar to this http://www.swingarm.com/2008/images/gallery/arms/thumbs/SUZ_GSF600_2001_B_ECC.jpg

I have liked JMC arms for a long time and think that they look the dogs danglies.

To make the perfectly beautiful SV though, I think that you need a curvy frame, pointy top fairing and belly pan, deep braced arm, USD forks and pretty wheels. Than polish and paint the whole lot in silver. Would be amazingly lovely. :D

Anyway, Barwell I am sorry for the derail. Update us with your handywork so far. Hugs to you all in SV land. :smt061

[barwel1992]

well finished drilling out the exhaust manifold bolt today... that was not fun but at least its out, now all i need to do is get it fixed

got barrels back nice and fresh with a good hone

so today i didn't get very far as i decided id go to the pub in stead :D

i finished cleaning bearings on the swing arm late last night.

http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/16012011651.jpg

http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/16012011656.jpg

http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/16012011655.jpg

and today i did get the front piston and cylinder fitted.

http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/18012011658.jpg

got to order a new temp sensor and some new engine stud bolts as i slightly rounded the old ones off, and don't want to fu*k them up any more

ohh and a few bits that are been clear coated tomorrow

http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/15012011649.jpg

[barwel1992]

ohh and this was the bike yesterday

http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/15012011646.jpg

[_Stretchie_]

What about the bike today?

: )

[Stig]

What about the bike today?

: )

Well hopefully, all those tools have been cleared away. How anyone can work with tools scattered all over the floor is beyond me. :)

[svsam]

looks good! did you just drill the bolt straight out? did you have to self tap it an that kinda stuff. i got a bolt snapped in the mrs's torsion bar on her 206 :(

[andrewsmith]

Well hopefully, all those tools have been cleared away. How anyone can work with tools scattered all over the floor is beyond me. :)

I thought I was untidy when a worked (Berlin can back that up!).

I find I'm getting annoyed with meself when I'm doing it

[Stig]

What about the bike today?

: )

I thought I was untidy when a worked (Berlin can back that up!).

I find I'm getting annoyed with meself when I'm doing it

A well organised tool box with wheels is the answer. ;)

[andrewsmith]

A well organised tool box with wheels is the answer. ;)

Haha

Cant fit a big'un in the shed. Got a clarke top of cabinet box and a shed load of magnetic bars for the sockets

[barwel1992]

HA thats tidy, i might have a double garage but there's a semi pro weights gym in there and a quad bike, and a huge shelf, no room for any thing so leave the tools in reach

well to day the bike looks the same but with a bit more metal lol, the rear piston,cylinder and head is on, timing up the cams.. im doing the rear first as i was thinking about it and i dont think it would make a difference.

the front cylinder head is at college, my tutor is going to weld an ally plug sort of thing and re drill and tap, he is a welder, fabricator by trade so knows what he is doing and is very good at welding ally

should be nearly done by tomorrow as tonight i intend to fit swing arm later and bolt up part of the linkage.

[barwel1992]

ahaha :D :D :D started first push of the button :D

all thats left to do is chain tension, and stick air box top on.

got some pic's to put up and a video :)

[Stig]

Get on with it then. Want to see the finished job.

[barwel1992]

Get on with it then. Want to see the finished job.

the pics are cr&p will get better ones on Saturday

[andrewsmith]

shall i start a card for when it'll be in bit again! :D

[barwel1992]

shall i start a card for when it'll be in bit again! :D

LOL no thats tempting fate :D

the only other thing that will be comming off now is light brackets as im cutting them down and the tach wiring as the tach is jumping about again

might advance the ign timing as well ;)

[barwel1992]

pics and a video of it running :D

fixed exhaust stud (cost me nothing) thanks very much to my college for lend of the kit ;)
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/19012011677.jpg

cleaned
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/20012011685.jpg

air box and stacks
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/20012011686.jpg

shiny down pipes on
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/20012011688.jpg

video
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/th_20012011059.jpg (http://s357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/?action=view&current=20012011059.mp4)

[Bibio]

is that it alive with transplanted pistons?

[barwel1992]

yup with no air box

[TamSV]

Must have been a nice feeling when it started. Good work.

I like the video. Gotta light mate? :smt033