Thought my motorcycle was in storage...

[sydoggkdy]

Ok, so this is quite confusing and I don't really know where I stand but my dad has an old BMW R65 which I have always wanted to ride. It was in storage in his old office and the person who he sold the office to said he can leave it there until he has somewhere to put it. oke I thought.

My dad went and spoke to him yesterday and he said "oh aw the motorbike erm.... I dont know" Hes going to find out where it went but he thinks maybe one of the builders might have just taken it ?

So I go and check on askmid and it appears that the bike is insured so who ever has taken it has applied for the V5 with a V62 got it insured and it driving it around as if it were their own.

What I don't understand is why the DVLA didn't contact my Dad at his new address when someone applied for the V5.

So where do my Dad and I stand, I want it back. Has this motorbike effectively been stolen ? Do I phone the police? Do I ask the DVLA for the new "registered keepers" address and go and take back what is mines?

So what do you guys think ? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks, Si

[Owenski]

Firstly: Chin the new office owner!
Secondly: Contact the police for sure, but get a solicitor cos its going to go to court.

The V5 only confirms the registered keeper, it legally has no reflection on ownership.
This could quite easily turn into a case of "I bought it off him" - "oh no you didnt" - "Yes I did" and so on.

Defo get the police and a solicitor involved ASAP, check with the insurer after speaking with the police as you may find you've 24hours worth of free legal protection on it.

Also I wouldnt communicate with the office owner now either as he may know the new keeper and tip him off to what your intended statement will be.


I should note, im not a legal guru or anything - thats just how I'd play it... except I'd ask the intimidating irish one to do the chinning.

[sydoggkdy]

Firstly: Chin the new office owner!
Secondly: Contact the police for sure, but get a solicitor cos its going to go to court.

The V5 only confirms the registered keeper, it legally has no reflection on ownership.
This could quite easily turn into a case of "I bought it off him" - "oh no you didnt" - "Yes I did" and so on.

Defo get the police and a solicitor involved ASAP, check with the insurer after speaking with the police as you may find you've 24hours worth of free legal protection on it.

Also I wouldnt communicate with the office owner now either as he may know the new keeper and tip him off to what your intended statement will be.


I should note, im not a legal guru or anything - thats just how I'd play it... except I'd ask the intimidating irish one to do the chinning.

Good to know the V5 doesn't mean you own it & only the registered keeper(wasn't sure)

Funnily enough, my Dad was a solicitor and the person he sold the office to is a solicitor, he had to talk about solicitor stuff yesterday to him(his solicitor) he said he doesn't know where it is. but is going to try and find out for tomorrow.

I'm just thinking it might be best to get the police involved straight away as the always seem to favour on the side of the person who makes the allegations.

cheers. Si

[skidmarx]

What a freakin' cheek! I doubt the police would be remotely interested... But id give them a call, expressing confusion and seek a crime number if you can get it. Without mentioning that, i'd then ask for the builders name and give them a call and adk for it back pronto! You may just get it back. If you go in heavy an allegation if theft, then whoever has it will probably just become entrenched as they will have a lot more to
lose than the bike if they lose the case. Theres no harm in simply asking for it back first imo

[Owenski]

I'm just thinking it might be best to get the police involved straight away as the always seem to favour on the side of the person who makes the allegations.

cheers. Si

Pretty sure they side with the party who has the best case ;)

Based on a similar situation which happened on here recently (search I Just bought my stollen KTM on eBay) if you report the bike as stollen the police will collect and impound the bike. The new possesor (I wont use the term owner) may fold and admit he "found" it. Or as with teh KTM you could be looking at a situation where the person currently with it in thier possesion bought it off someone in good faith and in which case you can be assured they'll want to fight the case too.

Either way the bike will be impounded until the matter is then resolved, I expect in court. Bare in mind both parties will now posses a V5 so that is about as much good as bog-roll. What I'd imagine your challenge will be is that you'll need to prove the bike was never sold. Find the OP on the KTM thread and speak with him, he may be able to help you out conciderably.

[davepreston]

get a statemnet from new office person saying bike was being stored there and no one had the right to take it (do this first) then inform police the bike has been taken without consent but add the new office prson may be able to shed some light on who may have taken it ,then your dad can do what he does in court if required, i would also send a carefully worded letter to "the posseser" asking it to be returned forthwith and that the police are investagating the matter, which you are willing to drop if bike is returned "important bit" in the same conditon as before ,any damage will be paid by them after mutual agreement

[Sid Squid]

Contact the new 'keeper' first, s/he may be under the impression that the bike was OK to remove - s/he has applied for a V5 and has not been refused, we know this proves nothing as far as ownership goes, but they may not be aware that there is even a question over its ownership. The first thing to do is make them aware that the bike's removal was not OK'd by the legal owner.

That way no-one's feathers are ruffled more than is absolutely necessary, as soon as they are contacted by the police they may well not be as easy to deal with as if they would be if a simple enquiry is made first.

[drdax]

I had a problem registering a bike a few years back.

The DVLA should have sent your dad three letters asking if he had sold the bike once they had got an application for its V5. They have to do this and then if they get no reply they will issue a new V5.

Was the bike in your dads name at his current address?

[sydoggkdy]

Thanks for the comments, I think I'll see if the guy can find out who took it and ask for the thing back, else just phone the police.

what sort of evidence do you think we'll need to prove its ours, all we have is the panniers, service books & manual. he bought it in 1987 so as you would imagine the original bill of receipt is long gone.

obviously he owned it for 22 years or so and then all of a sudden without any signature from his part someone else becomes the registered keeper.

I can see all this becoming very confusing and time consuming :smt093

I had a problem registering a bike a few years back.

The DVLA should have sent your dad three letters asking if he had sold the bike once they had got an application for its V5. They have to do this and then if they get no reply they will issue a new V5.

Was the bike in your dads name at his current address?

I think the bike was registered at our old address, so he wouldn't have got the letters if they did, but the DVLA know my dads new address as its on his licence so some common sense and they would have found him.

I'll keep you's posted as if you are like me, you'll hate it when you never find out the ending to a thread lol

cheers, si

[tom-k6]

completely useless with legal mumbo jumbo but hope you and your dad get the bike back, sounds like such a ball ache but is a very interesting case

[speedplay]

Common sense and DVLA are not to be used in the same sentence.
Hope you get it back though.

[tigersaw]

I don't understand all this registered keeper / owner nonesence.

If they had taken your electric drill then thats theft.
So they take a motorbike, (or an assembled collection of motorcycle parts your honour), get a V5 and its now theirs? Surely they just pinched your stuff clear and simple?

[Stig]

but the DVLA know my dads new address as its on his licence so some common sense and they would have found him.



Trouble is most of the companies don't actually speak to other departments. There seems to be no attempt at any sort of cross-referencing at all.

It wouldn't surprise me to find the new building owner had 'sold' it to the builder. The builder riding round on a motorbike he thinks he has bought fair and square.

[benji106]

It wouldn't surprise me to find the new building owner had 'sold' it to the builder. The builder riding round on a motorbike he thinks he has bought fair and square.

Aye, or just told him he could take it as it wasnt wanted.

[pete m]

Monday morning

"hey - anyone know who's bike that is ? "

"nah, djk mate, you might as well have it , if you can be arsed to get it going ..."

"errr .....?"

Next Monday -one battery, bit of fuel and a fettle later, kick it over,
" blimey, it goes , yippee "

"hey mate, you dont thibnk that might be someones pride n joy, y know, the previous owners maybe......"

" :confused::rolleyes: - they ve given me the V5 , its not theirs any more is it !"""


Best of luck getting it back - ive been offered a CB250 with no V5, v similar origins i expect....:mad:

[metalmonkey]

As Sid said that is the best way to begin with don't, go full steam ahead may just complicat the issue at hand and not actually get you the bike back.

Try that first...

As for evidence goes I would suggest two letters...

1) Being from the owner, stating that it is their property, that they gave no permission to remove it for any reason by any persons, how long they have owned and any recpits or documents that relate to the bike. If the bike was to removed then they should be contacted by the person who has allowed them to store it there I would suggest that was for free or a nonimal value say £5 a year as an example.

2) Letter from the person who has allowed the bike to be stored there either from free or the above suggestion, that they given no permisson for the bike to removed in written communication, that they know to contact the owner of the bike before it can moved, or taken from the site without written permisson for the owner of the bike.

If you know who has the bike, you what your options are its up to you. I hope you get it back.

[Scorpio]

Trouble is most of the companies don't actually speak to other departments. There seems to be no attempt at any sort of cross-referencing at all.

It wouldn't surprise me to find the new building owner had 'sold' it to the builder. The builder riding round on a motorbike he thinks he has bought fair and square.

First, don't expect any kind of joined-up thinking from DVLA :rolleyes:
If you get the police involved, don't expect the bike to be removed from the new keeper and returned to you quickly. As said above - it may be seized and kept until all the legal issues have been settled. Not a quick job.

I was involved in a similar "oh yes you did" v "oh no I didn't" thing about 10 years ago :(

* An older chap had bought an elderly non-runner bike from a friend of his sons, the log book was to follow but never turned up (this was the tale I got - I had no reason to doubt it).
* I bought it as an unfinished project with receipt from the old chap and applied to DVLA to get new logbook, this turned up ok after a few weeks in my name :D I was happy as (I thought) it showed DVLA had made any checks, contacted the last keeper as shown on their system etc. As far as I was concerned I was the new legal owner (and had a V5 in my name).
* I spent a fair bit of time any money fixing the the bike up, got it MOT'd etc but decided to sell it rather than put it on the road myself. Sale went ok, I sent V5 off, new keeper received V5 in his name as expected. All fine.
* The problems started when he went to tax it, Police / CID ended up involved as the previous keeper (mate of old chaps son - remember ;)) claimed bike had never been sold and would like it back.

I'm not sure what final result was. No idea know how I (and chap I sold it to) got V5s but trying to tax it caused a CID investigation :confused:

Similar tale from many years ago. A drunken mate bought a modern but scruffy moped very cheaply from a scrapyard (all legal - with receipt etc). When he sobered up he realised it didn't run and he had no bike license. I bought it from him and applied for V5. Had a visit from CID who told me bike was stolen / not recovered. I got to keep it as I had bought it in good faith. Previous owner who reported it stolen (and claimed on insurance, then weighted the bike in at the scrapyard) was charged with fraud etc.

Good luck sorting it out :)

[Stu]

Write it off.
It's a 24 year old bike.
You left it in someone else's property for how many years? Without paying storage costs.
You didn't inform DVLA of a change address of the registered keeper - that's £1,000 fine right there that you're putting your hand up to.


Just an alternative view ;)

[-Ralph-]

Ignore everything written on here so far and if you really want the bike, go and get some proper advice from a solicitor who deals with such matters.

[ManxMatt34]

Write it off.
It's a 24 year old bike.
You left it in someone else's property for how many years? Without paying storage costs.
You didn't inform DVLA of a change address of the registered keeper - that's £1,000 fine right there that you're putting your hand up to.


Just an alternative view ;)

I can see this side of it, certinaly with leaving it for so long in someone elses property.
However i suppose if someone took anything off me without my consent i'd be really unhappy/down about it.
As for the £1000 fine for not changing my address i belive it's a similair fine for not changing ownership on your vechile? I got pulled by the police in 2008 and had owned my car for 9 months. I hadn't changed the ownership (stupidly), of course they wanted me to produce lisence, insurance, log book. And i just went into the police station, explained i had forgotten to change it. They said no problem come back next week with your bits when you have changed it. No issues atall.

I think it might be alot of effort for them to bother assigning a £1k fine for the paper work and similair and therefore it's more there to scare you into getting address changed, ownership changed and etc...

Matt.

[monkey]

Whatever happened with this?

[sydoggkdy]

well... the person / my dads solicitor we sold the office to, who was meant to be looking after the motorbike originally said to us the motorbike had been moved into a storage unit so it'll be there. But a week later he changed his mind to he had to recollection of the whereabouts of the bike. (don't know why he changed his mind)

So at this point we got the police involved, who originally said that it was not a criminal matter, but was a civil matter and the police can not get involved as the "new keeper" has a V5, which is bull****.

So I had a word with different police people, after showing them that a v5 doesn't show the owner of a vehicle but merely only who is the registered keeper. After a long discussion and some convincing they were satisfied that the vehicle has been unlawfully taken from our possession i.e stolen. They are now trying to establish where the current occupiers of the bike obtained it from and hopefully find a connection between them and from where the bike was taken. But because I'm dealing with Fife police who are waiting on Strathcylde police to speak to the regested keeper NOTHING IS GETTING DONE :mad:

I plan on going and speaking to them tomorrow, but you should all know how the police do things, very slowly, if at all.

Si