View Full Version : New Car - petrol or diesel
I know:rolleyes: but you lot are full of knowledge.
looking at a new(ish) car
Mileage approx 15K a year
Needed for work
commute is 18 miles each way
Long runs motoway to England and stuff
Looking at a rather minted GT TDI 150bhp version
but not sure if i should got for petrol with the short runs etc
so mighty orger's bamboozle me with your knowledge and opinions
MisterTommyH
04-02-11, 02:20 PM
Diesel. Don't think I'll ever go back to petrol.
metalmonkey
04-02-11, 02:23 PM
Whats your budget for buying the car, insurance, fuel useage and running costs?
Milky Bar Kid
04-02-11, 02:31 PM
IMO you need to be doing sorta 14-15k a year before it is worth the extra costs for diesel. A diesel car is more expensive to buy and service and the fuel is dearer, however, consumption is MILES better so if you are going to be doing 15k, I would probably say you will be better with a diesel.
454697819
04-02-11, 02:34 PM
Diesel
Unless there are petrel version of the same car available for more than less that the difference in fuel is going to cost you over the x number of years you have the car.
I do 15k a year and I reckon I save £800 a year using a diesel car over its equal petrol.
brennan
04-02-11, 02:45 PM
I know:rolleyes: but you lot are full of knowledge.
looking at a new(ish) car
Mileage approx 15K a year
Needed for work
commute is 18 miles each way
Long runs motoway to England and stuff
Looking at a rather minted GT TDI 150bhp version
but not sure if i should got for petrol with the short runs etc
so mighty orger's bamboozle me with your knowledge and opinions
I believe diesels can be problematic if they're only used for regular short trips. Not sure if it affects modern diesels as bad but something to consider if your commute doesn't include some high speed roads
Budget is cheap as chips as didn't expect to buying a new one as in max £4k
the petrol version I'm looking at all have similar mileage on them and not sure how good petrol engines are once they've gone over 70/80k
The insurance for the Golf Gti TDI is and extra £80 for the remaining 11 months total (almost £400)
tax is the same and i'm trying to cut down on mileage cost of fuel cost
though I think i need to factor in a timing belt change for the car- so apprx£200
Milky Bar Kid
04-02-11, 03:21 PM
I believe diesels can be problematic if they're only used for regular short trips. Not sure if it affects modern diesels as bad but something to consider if your commute doesn't include some high speed roads
To be fair, I would suggest that an 18 mile trip isn't exactly a short trip, if she had said she was doing a 5 or 6 mile trip each way then I would have thought that might have effected the engine but I think it will warm up sufficiently, particuarly in a modern engine during the 18 mile trip.
I drive 140 miles a day. I drive a Pug 106 1.5 Diesel and it gives me back 60-70mpg. It had 125k on the clock when I bought it and last year I put nearly another 30k on it.
I changed the cambelt as soon as I bought it and the engine has been faultless throughout. It just passed it's MOT again.
Non turbo diesel engines are very strong and a high mileage one shouldn't give you concern too much. If looked after you should get 200k miles out of one easily.
To make if cost worthy of having a diesel over a petrol engine you need to be doing some big mileage and top gear. Not just long distance. I drive between 50-70 mph and most of it is in top gear. That's when I get close to the 70mpg region.
After say all that, it is also going to depend on if the difference between petrol and diesel stays as it is now. It wasn't that long ago that diesel was only a penny more expensive and in some garages it cost exactly the same. If the void between the two carries on growing, well it's going to cut the benefit of having a diesel engine.
Oh and I bought my car for less than £500. So well within your 4k budget. :wink:
and if the gap continues between the prices of fuel, people will start to buy more new petrol cars, then petrol will slowly creep up and overtake diesel, as diesel did with petrol around mid to late 90's early 00's
Now got the added complication of do i try to sell the Merc or P/X or WBAC crap!!
MiniMatt
04-02-11, 04:10 PM
Diesel every time now. In my experience *much* more reliable in the long term (although with the technological pace of new diesel engines it perhaps could be argued that the more showy engine management and injector systems are as vulnerable as petrol counterparts). My last two diesel cars have hit, combined, over 400k miles with no engine problems on either of them; one of them was even french for god's sake and it was still everything else that failed while the engine just kept on trucking.
Aside from the reliability they're just more comfortable to drive, gruntiness of power delivery is such a boon to real world driving - kind of like the difference between an SV and an RG500 or some similarly 2-stroke like peaky bike. Means they're so much better for "just get me home" styles of driving but can still turn their hand to more energetic styles should the mood (and road conditions etc) take you. Spot an overtaking opportunity and take it, there's grunt available even if you're in 6th at 55mph or 3rd at 15mph. Also means they're near as damnit impossible to stall and with such a smooth and low power curve I find them much easier to drive in the snow to boot.
speedplay
04-02-11, 04:11 PM
Diesel. Don't think I'll ever go back to petrol.
IMO you need to be doing sorta 14-15k a year before it is worth the extra costs for diesel. A diesel car is more expensive to buy and service and the fuel is dearer, however, consumption is MILES better so if you are going to be doing 15k, I would probably say you will be better with a diesel.
I do quite high mileage for work and last year gave in and bought my first diesel having always bought petrol for my own cars.
I cant see me going back to petrol cars now.
Fill up the tank (about 70 quid but probably more by the time i finish typing this post:rolleyes:) and get about 600 miles if driven sensibly.
I still got 42.9 mpg when I did northampton to northwich in a little over an hour and a half (knew the satnav was wrong telling me 2 hours 15 minutes ;) )
Servicing costs are about the same as any other petrol equivalent I have had and the money saved on fuel over a year pays for the service anyway.
If you are doing as MBK says, over 14k miles diesel is the way to go.
*edit*
Mile for mile, my diesel car is nearly half as cheap to run than my bike :(
Mile for mile, my diesel car is nearly half as cheap to run than my bike :(
Which is why my bike stays at home and I drive to work :(.
Costs me around £25 a day to take the bike and that's just the fuel.
speedplay
04-02-11, 04:27 PM
Which is why my bike stays at home and I drive to work :(.
Costs me around £25 a day to take the bike and that's just the fuel.
I found the same.
I took the bike to work on odd days last year.
120ish mile round trip on the motorway needed to fill up before I left here and again before I left brum to make sure etc.
And then the tyres... I can get 2 for the car at what I pay for one on the bike :(
I found the same.
I took the bike to work on odd days last year.
120ish mile round trip on the motorway needed to fill up before I left here and again before I left brum to make sure etc.
And then the tyres... I can get 2 for the car at what I pay for one on the bike :(
I sometimes think about getting an expensive fuel guzzler so I could then justify riding the bike to work. :lol: But on the bright side the bike is not getting covered in crap. But then sat there under the cover is not doing it any favours either. I gotta hurry up and move closer to work and get a house with a garage.
Jimmy2Feet
04-02-11, 05:29 PM
all depends on the age of the car, i have been driving a series of diesel cars over the last 3 years, mostly ford focus' and all new, i have been averaging 50/60mpg with a 1.6 and a 1.8 TDCI, I was also driving a BMW 318d for a while, and i was getting about 65 average. so i was all over the diesel, i used to get 30/35mpg out of my old astra petrol so twice as cost affective on fuel consumption, and as diesel is not twice as expensive i was all about getting diesels, however time for a new car (they are all company cards by the way) and i am being forced a little to need to get the new astra, and only petrol, however according to what car they recon that it will do 45mpg average, not that makes sense to go for as the cost of petrol is cheaper that diesel, also the tax that i will pay on the car for it being a petrol will be less......i think that will be the cheaper option.
also all depends on what length of jurneys you are doing, lots of little short trips in a diesel will cost you more that an petrol!
Wideboy
04-02-11, 05:34 PM
diesel.
my old car was diesel went over the petrol for when i bought my current one and mumma mia what'a mistake'a to make'a!
diesels are crap on short trips and will only feck up if you don't give it a good thrashing every now and then to clear out the system, its why if you drive one sedately for a few miles and then boot it it will chuck out a load of soot. typically its the injectors that go t!ts up if you drive it around sedately all the time.
im selling and getting another diesel as my car currently costs me 60 quid to fill up and will only give me 300 miles :smt019
and if the gap continues between the prices of fuel, people will start to buy more new petrol cars, then petrol will slowly creep up and overtake diesel, as diesel did with petrol around mid to late 90's early 00's
+1, it always fascinates me, once apon a time it was cheaper than petrol now surprise suprise its more expensive even tho i believe its cheaper than petrol to make and transport
andrewsmith
04-02-11, 05:39 PM
diesel.
my old car was diesel went over the petrol for when i bought my current one and mumma mia what'a mistake'a to make'a!
diesels are crap on short trips and will only feck up if you don't give it a good thrashing every now and then to clear out the system, its why if you drive one sedately for a few miles and then boot it it will chuck out a load of soot. typically its the injectors that go t!ts up if you drive it around sedately all the time.
im selling and getting another diesel as my car currently costs me 60 quid to fill up and will only give me 300 miles :smt019
+1
What you got WB?
Diesel all the way petrols tooo damm expensive
Wideboy
04-02-11, 05:43 PM
astra.......its been chipped so i have no mpg :lol:
hardhat_harry
04-02-11, 05:49 PM
Petrol but has to be V6 sod the economy.
Had two diesels a Saab and a Mazda 6 broke them both.
andrewsmith
04-02-11, 05:54 PM
astra.......its been chipped so i have no mpg :lol:
aslong as it aint the MK3/4 1.6, 16v tune it would not bad chipped
My Pug is 16 years old. Looks tatty as hell but does the job I need it to do. If it's going to be used as a work tool, ie commuting. Why buy a more expensive car and run it into the ground? So long as it serves the purpose, I don't care what it looks like or indeed how old it is.
kwak zzr
04-02-11, 06:16 PM
diesel is the devils fuel! buy a big petrol engine! buy mine! ;)
Diesel, YOu would have to be a complete cretin to buy a new petrol nowadys, unless you lived in a city and a 1.2 petrol is probably best for you.
All this ****e about Diesels being bad on short trips, again crap. I have a 2005 Focus 2.0L TDCi and its banging out 47MPG over a 4.2 mile commute. and 55-60MPG on a 75MPH run.
You would be lucky to get a petrol to get within 7MPG of the urban run i do.
I had two petrols before the Focus and the fact i was lucky to get 300 miles a tank on my commute would **** me off.
Yes Diesel is a few pence more which means the comparable petrol focus would be about £5 less to fill if that. but get a good 150 miles less per tank.
150 miles of any fuel is a lot more than £5 today.
Best advice is buy a second hand Golf and then depreciation is less of an issue. Servicing well have you seen what actually is done, rip off . Do it yourself keep recipts.
My OH has a 2.0L GTTDi and it on a motorway can get 600 miles to a tank.
brennan
05-02-11, 01:09 PM
Diesel, YOu would have to be a complete cretin to buy a new petrol nowadys, unless you lived in a city and a 1.2 petrol is probably best for you.
All this ****e about Diesels being bad on short trips, again crap. I have a 2005 Focus 2.0L TDCi and its banging out 47MPG over a 4.2 mile commute. and 55-60MPG on a 75MPH run.
You would be lucky to get a petrol to get within 7MPG of the urban run i do.
I had two petrols before the Focus and the fact i was lucky to get 300 miles a tank on my commute would **** me off.
Yes Diesel is a few pence more which means the comparable petrol focus would be about £5 less to fill if that. but get a good 150 miles less per tank.
150 miles of any fuel is a lot more than £5 today.
Best advice is buy a second hand Golf and then depreciation is less of an issue. Servicing well have you seen what actually is done, rip off . Do it yourself keep recipts.
My OH has a 2.0L GTTDi and it on a motorway can get 600 miles to a tank.
I dont think its shi*e about short trips being bad for the engine. In my focus, after 5miles the engines only just getting up to temp. Lots of short journeys wont give the engine enough time to heat up, and evaporate condensation within the oil etc.
I dont think its shi*e about short trips being bad for the engine. In my focus, after 5miles the engines only just getting up to temp. Lots of short journeys wont give the engine enough time to heat up, and evaporate condensation within the oil etc.
Main issue is whether it has a Diesel Particulate Filter - if the engine does not get up to temperature then the DPF gets blocked.
Diesel every time now. In my experience *much* more reliable in the long term (although with the technological pace of new diesel engines it perhaps could be argued that the more showy engine management and injector systems are as vulnerable as petrol counterparts). .
Without any doubt at all, modern common rail engines are less reliable than petrol engines, and the repair costs for the common failures (injectors, HP pump, turbo, DPF, dual mass flywheel) are astronomic.
Diesel, YOu would have to be a complete cretin to buy a new petrol nowadys, unless you lived in a city and a 1.2 petrol is probably best for you.
Do only cretins appreciate the smooth, quiet refinement and linear power delivery of a decent petrol engine then?
Dicky Ticker
05-02-11, 01:38 PM
Diesel car will be more expensive to buy and has a higher rate of depreciation also the insurance is higher as accident repairs cost more when a frontal impact damages the engine. Service costs can be higher as you are talking older models with 6000 mile service intervals. Take all that into the equation and you will probably find that you will get a newer low mileage petrol for the same price. Turbos cost a lot to replace and can do a lot of damage to an engine if the blades start to break up.
I am not saying that a diesel will not be cheaper to put fuel in for day to day running just that unless you intend keeping it for a minimum of 4years it is an uneconomical proposition for your intended mileage and then only worth peanuts with the mileage 60K added
The general public still have this thing about mileage when buying a car and newer petrol cars are very good on giving high mileage durability with todays modern lubricants
grimey121uk
05-02-11, 02:15 PM
Diesel car will be more expensive to buy and has a higher rate of depreciation also the insurance is higher as accident repairs cost more when a frontal impact damages the engine. Service costs can be higher as you are talking older models with 6000 mile service intervals. Take all that into the equation and you will probably find that you will get a newer low mileage petrol for the same price. Turbos cost a lot to replace and can do a lot of damage to an engine if the blades start to break up.
I am not saying that a diesel will not be cheaper to put fuel in for day to day running just that unless you intend keeping it for a minimum of 4years it is an uneconomical proposition for your intended mileage and then only worth peanuts with the mileage 60K added
The general public still have this thing about mileage when buying a car and newer petrol cars are very good on giving high mileage durability with todays modern lubricants
Diesel cars dont depreciate anywhere near as fast as petrol cars (try selling a 2.0l+ petrol on the current market), everyone wants a diesel these days. Also i find diesel cars cheaper to insure.
My g/f's dad is a taxi driver he has a ford focus estate 1.8td (old school non common rail) and it has 350k on the clocks and the engine is still strong (even after a cam belt failure)
In terms of MPG, i have been driving for over 7 years and i have had both petrol and diesel cars, you find a petrol will state it will do 45mpg but in fact you are lucky to get half that, but when a diesel says 60mpg you tend to do slightly better
Do only cretins appreciate the smooth, quiet refinement and linear power delivery of a decent petrol engine then?
Maybe, however i find modern Diesels just as quiet and only a hint of noise under acceleration.
I do hovever as a diesel owner appriciate the going on 600 miles from a powerful tourqey 2.0L engine and a 50L fuel tank :wink:
I also appriciate the ability to sit in 6th gear and go from 40 to a motorway cruise in one go.
Modern diesels do everything a petrol will almost better in most cases. Lets face it there is no point having a powerful pertol in the UK anymore, over £60 to go in most cases 300-400 miles from a tank if your lucky, no thanks.
suzukigt380paul
05-02-11, 08:25 PM
well ive been a petrol man all my life but diesel is looking more and more atractive because it does more miles per gallon, but the only problem with the new comman rail engines is if it has ever had more than eggcup of petrol put in the tank then 10000 or maybe 50000 miles down the line and pos more than one owner later, one cold winters morning a error code will come up saying low pump pressure and the best part of a grand latter you will be back on the road after getting the pump and other bits reconed bearing in mind that a modern comman rail engine pump runs at well over 100 bar and a petrol engine does not suffer from this, and if it did you just buy a new or second hand pump for a few pounds,but you cant just change a diesel pump with out haveing it calibrated as the brain of the car wont know the output of the pump,so bear this in mind when buying a used diesel
Biker Biggles
05-02-11, 08:55 PM
well ive been a petrol man all my life but diesel is looking more and more atractive because it does more miles per gallon, but the only problem with the new comman rail engines is if it has ever had more than eggcup of petrol put in the tank then 10000 or maybe 50000 miles down the line and pos more than one owner later, one cold winters morning a error code will come up saying low pump pressure and the best part of a grand latter you will be back on the road after getting the pump and other bits reconed bearing in mind that a modern comman rail engine pump runs at well over 100 bar and a petrol engine does not suffer from this, and if it did you just buy a new or second hand pump for a few pounds,but you cant just change a diesel pump with out haveing it calibrated as the brain of the car wont know the output of the pump,so bear this in mind when buying a used diesel
And breath.:cheers:
Dicky Ticker
05-02-11, 09:09 PM
All cars are good when running right its when they go wrong they are expensive and certain models can be very expensive to repair.My wife has had several new VWs and touch wood not a lot of problems but then again her current Polo is only 50k and 11 years old with full annual services but even that has had some problems Doesn't matter whether it is petrol or diesel its when it goes wrong it costs.
On reflection my last diesel commuter was a Picasso 2.0Hdi and completely trouble free till 90k but since I sold it it has cost the new owner a small fortune so all this about high mileage trouble free motoring depends on the individual car as you hear good and bad stories about the same models.
Research a car before you buy a particular make or model is probably the only advice I would give--------------especially secondhand out of warranty
-Ralph-
05-02-11, 09:12 PM
It entirely depends on your individual circumstances, and there are factors you can't control as well.
When I bought my car the equivalent diesel was £3000 more, and at the time Diesel was 12p a litre more expensive. At the time I was doing 15-20k miles a year, and I paid for my own fuel. It was going to take me much longer to recoup that £3000 so I bought the petrol.
A year later there was a 2p per litre difference between petrol and diesel, I had changed job and was doing 35000 a year, and I had all my fuel paid by a company fuel card.
Spend some time on Autotrader, look at the cars you want to buy, and see what the difference in price is between petrol and diesel models, and then do your own maths based on your own circumstances. If you can buy the a petrol model for £1000 less you may find you're better with petrol.
You can't generalise on servicing costs anymore, many manufacturers the diesels and petrols cost the same to service, and have the same service intervals.
You can't generalise on reliability either. Diesel reliability used to be better because the engines were simpler and revved lower. Now they still rev lower, but with intercoolers, high pressure turbos & common rails, and all the electronics that goes into managing them, I don't believe diesels are any more reliable nowadays.
Paul the 6th
05-02-11, 10:03 PM
Diesel Q :)
a modern-ish one atleast - I had a mondeo tdci and an audi a3 tdi (both 2.0) - both were good for 400-500 miles out of a tank of diesel which cost £50 at the time (probably around £60 now)...
I went mental before christmas and bought an audi s4 - petrol engined 2.7 v6 twin turbo with 4 wheel drive... I'm averaging around 300miles on £65 of petrol and I do around 20,000 miles a year. But then I was paying a fortune on finance for my a3 (it was a flashy s-line model) whereas I now own my s4 outright and it gives me butterflies every time I pick up the keys.
I think big performance petrol cars are the only petrol based vehicles worth buying intentionally because the run on petrol ('drivers cars' for people who want a traditional petrolhead experience), otherwise diesel is the way to go for average driving (commuting, the occaisional spirited drive, and getting around etc.)
Just my 2p :)
simple if you want to save money get a diesel, they are no more unreliable than petrol cars, hold there value alot more and save big money on fuel costs over a year as long as your driving it. Can be slightly more expensive to service but cheaper insurance and fuel savings far outweigh these
plus if you want to save even more money you can run it on cooking oil, cheap as chips
simple if you want to save money get a diesel, they are no more unreliable than petrol cars,
This is blatantly untrue in the case of modern common rail engines.
Maybe, however i find modern Diesels just as quiet and only a hint of noise under acceleration.
Sorry, but the only people that say that are the ones that have convinced themselves of this, a bit like the people buying solid silver mains cables for their Hi-Fi systems and insisting they can hear the difference. I've not yet found a diesel car that isn't instantly recognisable as a diesel, especialy the rough clattering from cold. Even the otherwise lovely 6 cylinder BMW diesels sound like a taxi from cold, and the vibration at idle is certainly noticeable from inside unless you pretend to ignore it. The other favourite excuse is the road tax being lower; some appear to think it makes sense to spend many thousands of pounds on a new diesel car to save up to a couple of hundred pounds a year
Diesels make sense if you have a company car where the manufacturers stated CO2 output determines your tax liability, and if and when it breaks you don't have pay to get it fixed. They may make sense for private ownership for people doing high mileages, but you have to trade off the potential nightmare bills. They make absolutely no sense for people who have low annual mileage, mostly around congested towns and cities were the fuel economy is simply a non-issue. They make even less sense if you actually enjoy driving and want a drivers car.
-Ralph-
06-02-11, 03:58 PM
If you are comparing modern diesel and petrol performance with respect to it being a "drivers car" and favouring the petrol, you are right, BUT probably not comparing apples with apples.
My 1.8 VVT 140 Vectra is slow as slug. The EQUIVALENT diesel is the 1.9 CDTI 150, which is a damn sight more responsive due to the torque it produces. Sure the VXR wil be quicker again, and a much nicer engine (if there is such thing as Vectra "drivers car") but thats not realy apples with apples is it.
Specialone
06-02-11, 04:06 PM
I love turbo diesel engined cars, I do low mileage in my car btw.
The equivalent petrol car is nowhere near as torquey, you can thrash a TDI and still get really good mpg, do that in a petrol and your mpg will really suffer.
The noise of my golf doesn't bother me in the slightest, I have drove noisier petrol cars.
It's the fact the diesel fuel is so much more money, when it's cheaper to produce.
Only downside for me is the fact they don't rev as high as a petrol engine, if they could 6k redline that would make them very good.
When I have my car sitting on the drive all week I like the fact that the tax is only £115, the less the tax man gets the better.
This is blatantly untrue in the case of modern common rail engines.
no its not mate, there are many factors which will determine how reliable a car is but it being petrol or diesel is not really one of them. Common rail does have its faults but do you not think there are petrol engines out there with problems. Its all about how its been maintained and cared for plus a little bit of luck on your side.
-Ralph-
06-02-11, 08:32 PM
I agree with Baph! Some manufacturers diesels will be more reliable than another's petrols and vice versa.
I think diesels are probably more expensive to repair on average when they do go, the turbos cost well over a grand.
Diesels still have better overall longevity than petrols forgetting replaceable auxiliaries like turbos, they still rev lower, but that has dropped with modern engines too. My Uncle runs 10 or so Mondeo's at a time, and runs them into the ground, the Mk1 didn't last as long as the Sierra, and the Mk2 with the TDCI are not lasting as long as the Mk1. The more torque they put out the more stressed the engine components are.
thefallenangel
06-02-11, 08:51 PM
I think people need to make the choice based on life. I drive a citroen C1 which i've had converted to Gas. I got the p!$$ taken but i don't care becausdrive a van 5 days a week and don't want bills for a car i don't use. My brother is clocking mileage in it to make the gas worth it.
On the argument on petrol vs diesel, comparing Vauxhall Combo vans (1.4 Dual Fuel vs. 1.2 Diesel) the 1.4 have had full rebuilds every 50k and have never been right since rebuilds or been okay for 100k where as the diesels seem to be blowing up turbos at 60k, engine at 60k or okay for 106k. All serviced by the same garage, looked after. And before someone is smart the gas vans haven't run on gas for longer than 5k.
The petrol vans are appauling but go well in comparision to the diesels. But comparing them to the Vivaro vans they are beasts and pretty reliable in comparision to the Combos. Not much more gutsy on fuel either.
no its not mate, there are many factors which will determine how reliable a car is but it being petrol or diesel is not really one of them.
Sorry but these days it is one of them (I am refering specifically to engine reliability). Petrol and diesel engines share the same basic components, but common rail diesels have fragile injectors, high pressure pumps that have ridiculously tight tolerances and are highly stressed, dual mass flywheels that take a pounding due to the massive torque peaks, turbochargers that work under very harsh conditions and these day particulate filters that don't work very well under the short cycle times of city driving. Unsurprisingly all these parts are failure points, sometimes at surprisingly low mileages
What the the weak points on a petrol engine? Maybe the odd coil pack. Loads of potential sensor faults of course, but most of these are common with the diesel (MAF, electronic throttles, crank sensors etc). Some petrols have DMFs these days, but they are under less stress than on a diesel.
Diesels still have better overall longevity than petrols forgetting replaceable auxiliaries like turbos,
"replaceable auxiliaries"?? You could get a petrol engine rebored with new pistons and rings for the cost of a new turbo.
speedplay
06-02-11, 09:39 PM
On the argument on petrol vs diesel, comparing Vauxhall Combo vans (1.4 Dual Fuel vs. 1.2 Diesel) the 1.4 have had full rebuilds every 50k and have never been right since rebuilds or been okay for 100k where as the diesels seem to be blowing up turbos at 60k, engine at 60k or okay for 106k.
1.4 and 1.6 vans that are constantly ragged by people who dont actually own them or have to pay for the running of them will always be a problem.
Smallish engines all being driven like they are stolen etc no wonder the turbos are failing.
Specialone
06-02-11, 09:43 PM
Well Im on my 2nd TDI, 50k on first one, 13k on my present one, not had ( touch wood) a single fault, both VW golfs btw.
My first one I used to do 300+ a week and it got thrashed all the time.
So depends on manufacturer, especially French ones, some are bad, some are good, vag ones are pretty bullet proof IMO .
-Ralph-
06-02-11, 10:23 PM
"replaceable auxiliaries"?? You could get a petrol engine rebored with new pistons and rings for the cost of a new turbo.
Yes, I'm talking about engines that are doing 250-300k in 5 or 6 years, driven by taxi drivers that don't own them, after which point something goes that makes it more cost effective to replace with a recon unit.
And so what if you could rebore for the same money as a new turbo? If a turbo has blown, it's not a rebore that it needs is it? It's a new turbo. You don't take a car off the road for days on end if you don't have to, if a turbo has blown you replace the turbo and get it's wheels rolling again.
In the taxi business you don't bother with major work such as rebores, with the labour involved and the length of time the car is not running, it's not economically viable. You could do it, then in another 25k (6 months or less) the big end shims or bearings could go. Let somebody else make a living doing all that work in one go, then buy the recon unit off them.
The TDCI's turbos may have been "replaced" by twice or three times during the lifetime of that engine, if your lucky and the driver radio's in the burning oil smell instead of just driving it until the end of his shift, or drives until the engine goes cataclysmic, whichever is the sooner.
In any high mileage business running working vehicles, anything with a lifespan significantly less than the engine is a replaceable auxiliary.
The old Sierra 1.8 TD used to do 350k before the engines were replaced BTW. I had one on it's second engine and third gearbox, with 520k miles on the clock.
"replaceable auxiliaries"?? You could get a petrol engine rebored with new pistons and rings for the cost of a new turbo.
or you could just rebuild the turbo for a tiny fraction of the cost. Having had 2 turbo's go bang on me (both on petrol engines) id have to say its a dam sight cheaper than new pistons and re boring an engine.
Diesel engines are normally a stronger unit, they have faults but so do petrol engines. Any engine that is well cared for and well maintained should see you ok with the basic bit of bad luck your going to get on any mechanical object that is put under alot of stress. Never owned a diesel until we just got one but i bet i dont spend anything like what i did on the scooby for repairs and engine rebuilds
-Ralph-
06-02-11, 10:51 PM
or you could just rebuild the turbo for a tiny fraction of the cost
True, but again in the taxi business time is money, cheaper just to exchange it for a recon turbo and get it fitted and back on the road, let someone else do the rebuilding.
well i can say that the diesel won. I enjoy the torque that the diesel offers and the fact that you can pull in any gear!
I'll admit that the VW is quieter than the Merc and the ride is so much better but its 3 years younger and has 80k less miles
Petrol maybe cheaper but the mileage return is better on the diesle though I think I'll choke at the price of a full tank when i fill it up for the first time
Wideboy
07-02-11, 12:15 PM
Sorry but these days it is one of them (I am refering specifically to engine reliability). Petrol and diesel engines share the same basic components, but common rail diesels have fragile injectors, high pressure pumps that have ridiculously tight tolerances and are highly stressed, dual mass flywheels that take a pounding due to the massive torque peaks, turbochargers that work under very harsh conditions and these day particulate filters that don't work very well under the short cycle times of city driving. Unsurprisingly all these parts are failure points, sometimes at surprisingly low mileages
What the the weak points on a petrol engine? Maybe the odd coil pack. Loads of potential sensor faults of course, but most of these are common with the diesel (MAF, electronic throttles, crank sensors etc). Some petrols have DMFs these days, but they are under less stress than on a diesel.
Ummm head gaskets?..... and the mafs and crank sensors are worse on petrols, especially smaller engine petrols. look on autotrade at cars @ 200k miles and count how many more diesel there is over petrol. The fact is if looked after they aren't more unreliable than petrol as both go wrong with different types of problens, the pro's of a diesel far outway the ones of petrols today
Are you by any chance related to clarkson? I've never seen someone whinge so much about diesels :lol:
454697819
07-02-11, 12:22 PM
well i can say that the diesel won. I enjoy the torque that the diesel offers and the fact that you can pull in any gear!
I'll admit that the VW is quieter than the Merc and the ride is so much better but its 3 years younger and has 80k less miles
Petrol maybe cheaper but the mileage return is better on the diesle though I think I'll choke at the price of a full tank when i fill it up for the first time
I don't think you will be disappointed,
Quality is remembered long after the cost is forgotten.
My 61 litre tank now costs £74 quid but I get 550 miles going small journeys
as long as you change the belts and tensioners and service it on time the diesels will go forever..
Stick some pics up for a quick oggle.
I don't think you will be disappointed,
Quality is remembered long after the cost is forgotten.
My 61 litre tank now costs £74 quid but I get 550 miles going small journeys
as long as you change the belts and tensioners and service it on time the diesels will go forever..
Stick some pics up for a quick oggle.
And some of the car too if you get a chance ;)
True, but again in the taxi business time is money, cheaper just to exchange it for a recon turbo and get it fitted and back on the road, let someone else do the rebuilding.
Buy a second hand one, get that refurbed then swap over when it goes bang.
Stick some pics up for a quick oggle.
And some of the car too if you get a chance ;)
Matt - there's nothing worth oggling except the car!!
For those interested - 05 VW Passat 1.9 Tdi (100) trendline spec with 44K miles - FSH with 2 stamps (long service intervals its on)
Its bigger than anything I've had so far so no doubt I may be back on asking questions so be warned. For the girls its blue!
Thought it was a better deal than the 02 VW Golf GTI TDI PD (150bhp) with 98 K on the clocks
Should pick up thursday so will get photos at weekend once i get a chance to inspect repairs and start working on giving a damn good polishing!
:smt040
Milky Bar Kid
07-02-11, 03:10 PM
Tut...shoulda got the GT TDI!
the GT has all round mintex brakes, a new clutch put in a 60k and new brake master cylinder and its gone back into the garage this weekend for more work on the clutch 30k later - which sounds like its the flywheel that has not gone
Tell me the car has not been totally hammered!!
Milky Bar Kid
07-02-11, 03:21 PM
Aye, true...
Specialone
07-02-11, 03:24 PM
I don't think you will be disappointed,
Quality is remembered long after the cost is forgotten.
My 61 litre tank now costs £74 quid but I get 550 miles going small journeys
as long as you change the belts and tensioners and service it on time the diesels will go forever..
Stick some pics up for a quick oggle.
Matt - there's nothing worth oggling except the car!!
Er mr numbers said the above not me lol, dunno how my name got in on that quote :confused:
besides it has more room for a cripple like me to get the baby seat in an out
[
Er mr numbers said the above not me lol, dunno how my name got in on that quote :confused:
I didn't know your true name was matt?? It was in ref to MattSV's post which was under it!!
sorry if it confused you (tho i now know your name!!):cheers:
Specialone
07-02-11, 03:32 PM
[
I didn't know your true name was matt?? It was in ref to MattSV's post which was under it!!
sorry if it confused you (tho i now know your name!!):cheers:
Its not its Phil, take a look at post #60
Quote:
Originally Posted by specialone http://forums.sv650.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?p=2476696#post2476696)
Stick some pics up for a quick oggle.
I didnt say this ;) mr numbers did.
454697819
07-02-11, 03:37 PM
Mr numbers is Alex...
and I was talking about the car... :-p
Ok there's a glich in the matrix!! I didn't go anywhere near your posts - in a nice sense!!
It should have quote Mr numbers and Mattsv
ok I'm confused now!!
Mr numbers - you did mean the car but Matt SV twisted your words!
Ok there's a glich in the matrix!! I didn't go anywhere near your posts - in a nice sense!!
It should have quote Mr numbers and Mattsv
ok I'm confused now!!
Mr numbers - you did mean the car but Matt SV twisted your words!
Aneeeeeway. Now that we have got that sorted...
Lets see some pics :D
GT is a good car - I had a GTD 170 with the DSG gearbox as a hire car once, great car to drive.
I'll get Pics as soon as I get it and start polishing it!
Luckypants
07-02-11, 04:14 PM
besides it has more room for a cripple like me to get the baby seat in an out
Hang on, hang on, hang on!!!! What have I missed?:smt104
Diesel really is the way forward. I've gone from getting 200 miles to £45 to 500 miles for £55.
454697819
07-02-11, 04:32 PM
Ok there's a glich in the matrix!! I didn't go anywhere near your posts - in a nice sense!!
It should have quote Mr numbers and Mattsv
ok I'm confused now!!
Mr numbers - you did mean the car but Matt SV twisted your words!
Yes, I originally meant the car, my words were twisted, Im all innocent and sweet...
454697819
07-02-11, 04:32 PM
Diesel really is the way forward. I've gone from getting 200 miles to £45 to 500 miles for £55.
no, hydrogen is the way forward, its just were not there yet
So therefore, it's not the way forward yet... ;)
Hang on, hang on, hang on!!!! What have I missed?:smt104
something everyone else missed:cool:
I noticed, I just didnt comment.
-Ralph-
07-02-11, 05:05 PM
Hang on, hang on, hang on!!!! What have I missed?:smt104
something everyone else missed:cool:
Wheyhey! Congrats Garry & Abby :D
Luckypants
07-02-11, 05:08 PM
something everyone else missed:cool:
Seriously?? WooHoo! Congratulations to you both! That's fantastic news.
I love babies! :D:D:D:D:D
I noticed, I just didnt comment.
Whatever :rolleyes: :mrgreen:
Specialone
07-02-11, 05:10 PM
Seriously?? WooHoo!
I love babies
I do, couldn't eat a whole one though ;)
Milky Bar Kid
07-02-11, 06:50 PM
Congrats!!
I saw the child seat thing but I just thought you meant a friends or something!!
Hang on!!!!
I mention one lousy car seat and you lot have me up the duff
Yes i need a car seat but it ain't for me!! My friend and her wee on is coming to stay. Gracie is only 3 months and will need a seat. I get to play happy families and still hand her back at the end of the day
kwak zzr
08-02-11, 02:01 PM
ok ok ive now decided after spending a day driving my dads diesel s max doing 39mpg i am now KEEPING my Beemer @ 22 - 26 mpg :) i sooooo much prefere it!! no lagg! smooth as silk! 197bhp on tap! i'll pay the extra in fuel :)
I somehow think a bmw to an s-max is an unfair comparison...
kwak zzr
08-02-11, 02:04 PM
what i'm saying is i enjoy the petrol feel of the engine, what i failed to mention is i only travel about 60 miles per week to and from work so i can afford it at the moment :) if i had to travel say 200 miles per week then id have to reconsider.
Petrol is a lot nicer to drive fast, but round town or in lazy mode I'd choose a diesel any day of the week.
kwak zzr
08-02-11, 02:08 PM
i'd agree, the s max is a loverly ploddy engine great for town work.
Wideboy
08-02-11, 02:11 PM
So far BMW has the smothest diesel motor I've driven, Ford being the Lumpiest and laggyest. the st155 was a massive let down when I tried it
kwak zzr
08-02-11, 02:17 PM
ive not driven a diesel BM but i've heard there good, my budget would only stretch to the old shape BM (same as mine in my avatar) but i was scared off with the swirl flap problems they have where the engine eats itself lol
Sounds a decent reason to be scared.
Wideboy
08-02-11, 02:22 PM
It's a breather pipe on the turbo that makes them go pop, once that's done they're fine, them and vw are probably the strongest diesel motors going, me wanty :D
kwak zzr
08-02-11, 02:22 PM
an orger on here had a bill off BMW for some 7k for a new engine!! yup i poo'd :) dont regret the straight 6 it just drinks more than i do!
Wideboy
08-02-11, 02:31 PM
Try a 330d in your shape, they fairly poky and a few kicking about. I'd like one but it would be thirty as buggery on my commute :lol:
Problem with bwm diesels is they hold there money well and people want stupid money for one at 150k. I been after a 150 320d for a while
kwak zzr
08-02-11, 02:36 PM
ya i saw lots of rubbish when shopping for mine for about the 9k mark about 18 months ago :( the clean low milage ones (which is what i wanted) command good money.
-Ralph-
08-02-11, 04:00 PM
an orger on here had a bill off BMW for some 7k for a new engine!! yup i poo'd :) dont regret the straight 6 it just drinks more than i do!
£8300 quid it was mate. Luckily BMW eventually paid 80% parts and 100% labour after being threatened by a mate in the motoring press. Common known fault? Oh, yes!
http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=bmw+320d+turbo+failure
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