return to work getting screwed (help)

[davepreston]

right as most know i was off work for 18 months due to drunken b1tch smashing my knee up and then the surgery to fix it etc,

so i got a 8 week light duties chit, from the doc and went to see my boss

told him i could not do the 12hrs standing like before for a while but wanted to get back asap as going mental at home, i also said i would be back to normal after the 8 weeks

boss put me in a office block doing 26 hrs a week (normally 48 to 60 ,4 or 5 -12hr shifts)

so after 8 weeks got a fully fit chit off the doc and asked for full hours again

then the excuses came , boss is off sick ,were finding you somewhere asap, no hours going, need you where you are etc

ive tried to play the game for 3 months ( since asking for hours back) but cant afford the pay drop anymore

ive offered to work anywhere (we have multuiple sites)

had it out with the boss over the phone today, he says there is no place to put me, and if i dont like it make a formal complaint to HR
i asked where my job was (as i know they had new people start) he just kept saying there is no space's in any site, so no more hrs for me

i dont want much just my 48 hrs back and dont mind where i work, i just need a FULL TIME job again

im phoning HR today to make the complaint but dont even know where to start or what to say

so please org some proper advice required

dave

[454697819]

what is the companies sick policy?

this should tell you what you are and are not entitled to?

[davepreston]

am i not intitled to my job back??

[454697819]

Dave

I don't know?

What I meant by this is they may have a sickness policy, this would be the first thing to check if it details that after longterm sick you are entitled to your job back.

I hope so,

However if they are getting difficult, you need to be prepared for the contractual approach and this is where you would need to start imho.

Fingers crossed for you.

Cheers

Alex

[Bri w]

Find your original contract, or ask for a copy of the original that should have your signature on it. What you are looking for is your contracted hours.

Put everything in writing, and keep copies, just in case they decide to make you redundant. Anything you put in writing send to them by recorded delivery. If they do decide to make you redundant but keep on the person that they took on to cover your hours see a Solicitor about unfair dismissal. If they refuse to put you back on your original contracted hours there may be a case for constructive dismissal.

Good luck buddy

[fizzwheel]

am i not intitled to my job back??

You need to talk to your HR department. Thats the only way you will get a definitive answer.

[Biker Biggles]

A couple of points
The HR (Human Remains)department is an arm of management so dont take everything they say as gospel.They are there to advise managers on employment law.You also need to get advice from your union if you are in one or see an employment lawyer for specific advice on this.
Im a bit surprised your firm didnt dismiss you while you were off for so long on grounds of capability.Where I work you wouldnt last half that time before they move to get rid.Having said that they didnt so you are where you are and may have a case.

[Reeder]

Find your original contract, or ask for a copy of the original that should have your signature on it. What you are looking for is your contracted hours.

Put everything in writing, and keep copies, just in case they decide to make you redundant. Anything you put in writing send to them by recorded delivery. If they do decide to make you redundant but keep on the person that they took on to cover your hours see a Solicitor about unfair dismissal. If they refuse to put you back on your original contracted hours there may be a case for constructive dismissal.

Good luck buddy

+1 totally.

[Sally]

You need to talk to your HR department. Thats the only way you will get a definitive answer.

You sound like you have confidence in HR departments? Really?

[454697819]

You sound like you have confidence in HR departments? Really?

Yes,they will / should give you the company stance on the situation, even if it is one you don't like.

[Ed]

Play your cards carefully Dave and don't make any snap decisions. I was going to say no knee-jerk reactions - bad joke eh;)

You don't have a right to the identical job but you will have a right to return to similar work, full time. They haven't dismissed you on grounds of capability - they should have done. Seems to me that you are being made redundant by the back door. Do you want to be made redundant? How much would you get, in terms of redundancy pay, pay in lieu of notice and so on? And would you find another job quickly?

[punyXpress]

From Bri w - post #5:
there may be a case for constructive dismissal.
NOBODY leans on dp with impunity!

[Ed]

CD sounds all too easy, but it's actually very hard to make out a case. It requires the employer to behave in such a way that it is in fundamental breach of contract, so much so that you can't accept the change. And do you really want to walk out saying 'I've been CD'd', wait months for a Tribunal date, and then have the Trib tell you 'by walking out you resigned, there was no CD'? Much better to have a letter of dismissal, that way you don't have to prove that you were dismissed.

If there is a poss of redundancy then much better IMHO to wait to be made redundant and then say that you were unfairly dismissed on the grounds on unfair selection for redundancy. But even that isn't easy, as long as the employer acts 'within the range of reasonable responses' the Trib won't interfere. And a sick record of 18 months off is going to put you high up the list, even though it wasn't your fault.

Dave - go get specialist advice from an employment lawyer.

[Jimmy2Feet]

i will have a chat throuhg with my Mrs tonight, she is HR Manager for quite a large firm (not sure who you work for but they also sound quite big) dont be scared of HR dept, previous post saying they are only there for management to a load a bull, yes they are there to help management, but they are also there to help you. they have a legal obligation toward you as an employee.

Agreed that you shouldn't have telephone conversations, do everything with email/letters, if you do need a telephone conversation, document it, when ware you were, what was said etc.

As far as my understanding goes, if you were off work due to medical reasons and signed off by doctor they are in there rights to get someone in to cover your job of course, but they also need to be able to give you the job back upon your return.

At the same time however, i think if they feel that you are no longer able to do the job to the best of you abilities due to injurys i think they can go down the redundancy process, however again at the same time, if they are trying that they need to be able to offer you another job within the company as they have not got rid of your job, but just replaced you with someone else.

Something is definatly not right with what they are doing. I was off work for a year ill when i worked for Abbey National, and of course they replaced my job, but as soon as i was ready they gave the the job straight back!

Hope it all works out mate, but as i say i will run it through with the Mrs tonight.

What are you contracted hrs out of intrest? is it the 40pw?

[fizzwheel]

You sound like you have confidence in HR departments? Really?

Not really, but thats always the first port of call when you have a greivance with at work that your manager has failed to deal with correctly...

[Biker Biggles]

A couple of points
The HR (Human Remains)department is an arm of management so dont take everything they say as gospel.They are there to advise managers on employment law.

Thats what I actually said about HR.And I stand by it.They are not there to help the employee.I didnt say to be scared of them,just to understand who pays them and what they are for.

[Bri w]

CD sounds all too easy, but it's actually very hard to make out a case. It requires the employer to behave in such a way that it is in fundamental breach of contract, so much so that you can't accept the change. And do you really want to walk out saying 'I've been CD'd', wait months for a Tribunal date, and then have the Trib tell you 'by walking out you resigned, there was no CD'? Much better to have a letter of dismissal, that way you don't have to prove that you were dismissed.

If there is a poss of redundancy then much better IMHO to wait to be made redundant and then say that you were unfairly dismissed on the grounds on unfair selection for redundancy. But even that isn't easy, as long as the employer acts 'within the range of reasonable responses' the Trib won't interfere. And a sick record of 18 months off is going to put you high up the list, even though it wasn't your fault.

Dave - go get specialist advice from an employment lawyer.

I'm no expert Ed, thats your domain. I was basing it on DP leaving because the reduced hours that have been enforced upon him making it untenable financially.

A do know of a big multinational that unoffically called it the sickening process, i.e. make the employee so p!$$ed off they ended up leaving.

But you are right, no 'elbow jerk' reactions, and find someone versed in Employment Law.

[The Idle Biker]

I'd advise you to get your contract together with every piece of written correspondence you've had from your Company since the accident. If you've had verbal communication, write it down now before you forget it. Record in detail whats happened since returning to work. When you talk with HR, and if you get a bad vibe from the meeting, make sure they commit to sending you minutes of the meeting after and sending you it for your agreement within 48hours. Make sure you appear flexible in your approach to other opportunities in the company, make sure you are not confrontational. So much can depend on whether you are a full time employee or short term or long term contractor, but employee protection law is still fairly strong, especially if they have been paying you sick pay while you were off. Get good advice from a solicitor who specilaises in this area. Try to be optimistic HR usually do, but do not always favour management, they are always paranoid about long drawn out legal debates as it is always expensive, so you may be lucky with HR especially if you are open and flexible. Be optimistic things can change quickly in larger companies, it only take a resignation or movement of jobs somewhere else in the team and you'll be back in before you know it. Good luck.

[davepreston]

well my god fizz your right HR are not the antichrist

phonecall today (48 hrs after email sent) HR were unaware i wished to return to full time hours,
which is why they had not tried recruiting of my post to fill it(the part time one) or that i was fully fit, nor i was wanting to go back to my normal work

phone call from our operations boss (after hr call) went like this

they are getting me 38hrs 1 week and 50hrs the 2nd ,working 6 days 1 week, 7days week 2, just till they fill my place here, after that a full time place on another site

they will make this happen asap but no longer than 2/3 months till im on a steady 4 day (4x12hrs) shift at 1 site,
this was all in conferance with me to make sure i was happy to do the long weeks (id work 365 happily if required ) tbh anything to get my hrs back

and it seemed there was some bemusement to how things were dealt with at this end, it seems that they were also out of the loop

finally hr want me in on tuesday of a hearing for me to explain some of the issues i raise more throughly, ,dont know what that means exactly i am hoping its to dress down my line managers more than have a pop at me but as long as i get my hours back they can say what the feck they want to me, ive big shoulders.

cheers for the advice as usual it was very helpfull, when i get home i'll stick up the email i send (redacted version) and i would appreciate some feedback on that, or any advice about tuesday is welcomed

cheers again
dave

[454697819]

Good news mate

Does this mean u'll be writing on the forum less?

[Quedos]

You say a hearing - is that their terminology? Sound like they want to listen further re the issues you have been having.
the only two bits of advice i would say - phone them and ask for clarification about what they are wishing to achieve with the meeting -in case you need to dig out any evidence to back up your issues etc.
if you can - take someone with you and get them to make salient notes(hr will makes notes and send them to you) and always get them to sign the paperwork it covers your back side and stops any words being twisted.

Yes i'm a sceptical - I really HR is there for us but I've been burned before and I ain't happening again!

Good luck though looks like it going to work out for you

[davepreston]

the words used were "greivance tribrunral" and they wanted me to put my side across to help with the rectifaction of the issue/ complaint made by me, i said that its seems to have be rectified already by operations, to which they said "so you think it will be sorted without the need for a tribruneral" ,he then put me on hold then said "well we will bring you in to talk about what happened and where we all stand on tuesday and you'll still get paid for your shift"

[fizzwheel]

well my god fizz your right

It doesnt happen very often, but sometimes on the odd occasion yes I do get it right.

Sounds like for a change you have a good HR department, or they have realised that said manager has made a screwup and they are trying to sort it out, before things get messy ( i.e. they are a*se covering ) the point made above about HR being there to protect the company is a very good one and something you should keep in mind, but theres no harm in making that fact work for you as well.

Sounds like you are on the way to resolving it so thats good to hear :cool:

[seedy100]

A little advice based on biter experiance:-

First, do not go to this meeting on your own. If you are in a union take a full time official if you can get one, otherwise take a shop steward or similar; failing that take a collegue, dont pick a mate pick someone who is used to taking note in meetings etc.
Second, get each page of the notes taken signed and dated by all present at the meeting. Ask for copies of their notes to take away with you (They may well refuse but its worth a try).
Third: Issue your own set of minutes, if at all possible get them issued before they issue their set. Importantly when they do issue minutes read them carefully and critically. If there are two possible interpritations of any of the points, or indeed any outright "errors" write back immediatly disputing or clarifying the point(s).

You are doing this for three reasons
1) so that you are not relying on memory in the future.
2) to produce conteperanious notes that can be used in the even of a trubunal or similar
3) to let them know that you are not going to be a pushover, which may well make 1 and 2 unnecessary.

Other than that try to keep everything friendly and professional and DO NOT lse your temper at any point.

Good luck!