Breaking up a hardstand

[Ed]

Now I'm a bit of a numpty on heavy practical stuff but I'm determined to do this myself.

We've sold the caravan and with a bit of luck the buyer will take it this weekend, if not this then I will insist on next weekend. He doesn't have anywhere to park it outside his house, but the site he wants to put it on for the spring and summer wasn't open yet, so it's still in our front garden. I'm sick of the sight of it TBH and I can't wait to see it go.

Anyway the builder put down two rows of concrete as a hardstand for it. They're not that deep, from memory maybe 25 - 30cm. And I think about 40cm wide. 7m long. This was the hardstand when dug out before the concrete was laid. The trenches aren't deep but the concrete was built up with shuttering. You'll just about see this in the next pic, taken more to show what a complete mess it was at the time rather than the hardstand:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a127/Sythree/IMG_3750.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a127/Sythree/16102010350.jpg

I want to get rid of the concrete and to reinstate the soil (I still have that in a pile in the garden). Will this tool be up to the job?

http://www.hss.com/index.php?g=2151&t=zoom

I've got all the ear defenders (not much left hearing left to defend TBH:() and the eye goggles and thick gloves. Any advice on how to clear the site gratefully appreciated.

[benji106]

Ive cleared about 10x10M with a sledge hammer and a pickaxe but I wouldnt reccomend it.

[philbut]

You might also want a decent size angle grinder for cutting through any re-inforcement. Don't know how sturdy the steel was that the builders used, but something like a 12" 2 stroke angle grinder will make quick work of any troublesome metalwork.

[G]

Breakers require effort, noise and mess... that one is electric too which is naff.

If it's only 30mm deep I would use http://www.hss.com/g/7156/Concrete-Ring-Saw.html and remove it in slabs.

[454697819]

Ed,

Not messing around with concrete etc, just go with this..

http://www.hss.com/g/2111/Heavy-Duty-Breaker-Avt-110v.html

It will make mincemeat of it in no time the one you selected will do it but you will be looking at an age, and you WILL be board after 10 minutes of it skipping of the surface.

Or this

http://www.speedyhire.com/Tools-&-Equipment/Drilling--Breaking-&-Fixing/16KG-Heavy-Duty-Breaker/p-1-10-17-172/#

And wear steel boots and trousers sharp flints WILL hurt.

The first one you picked will be like taking a knife to a gun fight, you'll loose.

[Luckypants]

I reckon a sledge hammer, pick-axe and 'trosol' (will need to look up the English word) should do the trick Ed. I removed all the concrete from the front of my house this way. Physical work, but easy enough. Here is a picture of the largest area I broke up:-

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v329/214/80/677353213/n677353213_936829_4301.jpg

These photos of the block paving laid to replace it will give an idea of the area removed

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/6092_101090428213_677353213_2217322_6323622_n.jpg

and

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/6092_101090433213_677353213_2217323_5463979_n.jpg

EDIT: TROSOL translates to 'crowbar' but I have only ever heard it used in relation to a dock-off big metal bar about 6ft long, pointy at one end and a flat lever at the other. A big pinch bar? Anyway, normally use them for making starter holes for fence posts..

[flymo]

Ed,

Not messing around with concrete etc, just go with this..

http://www.hss.com/g/2111/Heavy-Duty-Breaker-Avt-110v.html

It will make mincemeat of it in no time the one you selected will do it but you will be looking at an age, and you WILL be board after 10 minutes of it skipping of the surface.

Or this

http://www.speedyhire.com/Tools-&-Equipment/Drilling--Breaking-&-Fixing/16KG-Heavy-Duty-Breaker/p-1-10-17-172/#

And wear steel boots and trousers sharp flints WILL hurt.

The first one you picked will be like taking a knife to a gun fight, you'll loose.

a great big +1 to this. If the concrete is particularly hard you'll be there all day with a sledgy, get a decent drill breaker on hire and it will be done in no time.

[Ed]

Thanks peaps. I want to get the job done, not have it drag on, so I'll get an Alex breaker. I don't have a pair of steelies, I'll have to wear my paras. As for steel reinforcement - I don't remember any being used, the caravan isn't that heavy, about 1200kg from memory, and it's not like it moves across the stand, so I'm fairly certain that none went in.

Mike - fenceposts. I need to build a new rear fence too. It'll be a post and rail thing with some chicken wire stuff to stop rabbits invading and getting killed by the cats. Lots more jobs to follow, too. We could do with a 'How To' section:D

I'll post up some pics of my handiwork as and when:cool:

[Sir Trev]

Does this mean the veg patch is not up and running yet???

I came home one day to find a Polish man almost reduced to a puddle of sweat after breaking up my old concrete drive (he was a builder and was meant to be doing it). Some of it was over 18 inches thick and he cleared it all in a day with a rather weedy electric kango on his own. Goodness knows how but I'm glad it was not me...

Good luck Ed!!!

[Ed]

Does this mean the veg patch is not up and running yet???

Sort of. I made a start but the ground was too wet, and then we had a few nights of frost and the ground was solid. So I've sown a lot of stuff indoors - aubergines, peppers, broad beans. I'm impatient to get going properly, and I can't put up the polytunnel until the CV goes and I've broken up the concrete.

[454697819]

Ed,

the other thing to remember is the Skip,

Get one for when you are doing the work, as double handling material is a **** pig of a job and try for a drop end skip so you can wheel barrow the hardcore straight in.

Best of luck.

[Bluepete]

You could have a work party!

Weekend, work, BBQ, beer, sleep.

Pete ;)

[davepreston]

tell the ecosse section theres a quid somewhere underneath it :)

[Bluepete]

Or the Irish section that it's the end of the Rainbow!

Pete ;)

[Luckypants]

You could have a work party!

Weekend, work, BBQ, beer, sleep.

Pete ;)

I still have my sledge, pick and trosol :D

[Bluepete]

trosol :D

I have one of those too. Not sure how to carry it on the Tiger though?

Ah!

An Idea!

Someone needs to supervise and BBQ. I'll volunteer myself. I know it'll be a hard job, but I'm willing to take it for the team...

Pete ;)

[Specialone]

Having done this many times, it does depend on thickness and strength of the concrete.
But two best ways in my opinion...
Get a lifter underneath it and see if it budge a bit, if it will, scrape some dirt out from underneath so you create a void, then smack feck out of it with a sledge in sizeable chunks, if this doesnt work...

12" skilsaw, plug hose on it to keep dust down and cut 2-3 ft sections and then if it doesnt go all the way through smack the joints with the sledge after.

As they are only strips of concrete, a big kango would also probably do this, but it may start breaking into small pieces and take ages.

[yorkie_chris]

I'd stihl saw it into chunks then put breaker in the cuts or just sledgehammer to crack it up.

Breakers aren't that good at breaking up really big solid stuff from scratch, you'll spend a long time making loads of little chips.



EDIT: TROSOL translates to 'crowbar' but I have only ever heard it used in relation to a dock-off big metal bar about 6ft long, pointy at one end and a flat lever at the other. A big pinch bar? Anyway, normally use them for making starter holes for fence posts..

We used to call them a digging stick. Dunno the proper word.

[embee]

Another recommendation for the lifter bar and sledge here, 2 man job. If it's hard concrete (probably is) any chisel type breaker smaller than a JCB mounted thing is going to be hard work and very tedious. I've got a hefty Bosch breaker but I wouldn't use it for that job.

Getting it lifted before hitting it is the key, if it's supported under where you hit then the shock stays in compression and the concrete is very strong in compression. You need to get the shock converted into tension in the lower face of the concrete, then it'll crack. Support each end, hit in the middle.

[Sir Trev]

I came home one day to find a Polish man almost reduced to a puddle of sweat after breaking up my old concrete drive (he was a builder and was meant to be doing it). Some of it was over 18 inches thick and he cleared it all in a day with a rather weedy electric kango on his own. Goodness knows how but I'm glad it was not me...

Good luck Ed!!!

Found the pics... Here is said Polish man (Pyotr - the foreman) breaking up the old drive.

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc413/Sir_Trev/IMG_1668.jpg


This is a full size sledge so you get some idea how thick some of the stuff was. Most of it was much thicker!

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc413/Sir_Trev/IMG_1670.jpg

[tinpants]

When you say"full sized" what do you mean? Is it a 8lb or 14lb?

Ed, I've got a mini digger and trailer if you want me to drag it up to yours. Will take me a while to get there (about 3-4 hours) but its amazing what people will do for beer and a barby!!

[Specialone]

Theres an offer you cant refuse :)
Have that done in half the time with that, even if you just use it to get a void under the slab for smashing with the sledge.

[Rog]

'trosol' (will need to look up the English word)

Ive got one of these and to quote Bricktop "like a knife through butter". I've always known them or heard them referred to as a "6' Pike". like the medieval weapon of old its similar to.

Dont know if this is right though.

[punyXpress]

You lads really are doing things the hard way!
Just plant a bit of Japanese Knotweed next to it, & hey presto your slab is busted.
" Specific problems caused by Japanese knotweed are:

Damage to paving and tarmac areas. "

PS: might as well start a " Get rid of Knotweed " thread now.

[Viney]

Now I'm a bit of a numpty on heavy practical stuff but I'm determined to do this myself.

We've sold the caravan and with a bit of luck the buyer will take it this weekend, if not this then I will insist on next weekend. He doesn't have anywhere to park it outside his house, but the site he wants to put it on for the spring and summer wasn't open yet, so it's still in our front garden. I'm sick of the sight of it TBH and I can't wait to see it go.

Anyway the builder put down two rows of concrete as a hardstand for it. They're not that deep, from memory maybe 25 - 30cm. And I think about 40cm wide. 7m long. This was the hardstand when dug out before the concrete was laid. The trenches aren't deep but the concrete was built up with shuttering. You'll just about see this in the next pic, taken more to show what a complete mess it was at the time rather than the hardstand:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a127/Sythree/IMG_3750.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a127/Sythree/16102010350.jpg

I want to get rid of the concrete and to reinstate the soil (I still have that in a pile in the garden). Will this tool be up to the job?

http://www.hss.com/index.php?g=2151&t=zoom

I've got all the ear defenders (not much left hearing left to defend TBH:() and the eye goggles and thick gloves. Any advice on how to clear the site gratefully appreciated.Giv me a sledgehammer and some other robbey tools and i'll come and break it up for ya.

[Ed]

When you say"full sized" what do you mean? Is it a 8lb or 14lb?

Ed, I've got a mini digger and trailer if you want me to drag it up to yours. Will take me a while to get there (about 3-4 hours) but its amazing what people will do for beer and a barby!!


Bloody hell!!!! Well yes that would be great but it's not a big area by any means, just 2 tramtracks, and it's a long way just for that.

[yorkie_chris]

The man wants to play with his digger don't discourage him!!

[Owenski]

Most prefab garages are laid on anything between 100-150mm of reinforced concrete. Blockwork structures can require slabs to be upto 225mm thick - Hell most houses provided the ground is stable can be built on 225mm think reinforced concrete footings.
I've smashed 100mm slabs to cinder with no trouble, but I've struggled with vibrated slabs 200mm thick and ended up hireing a HD breaker to finish the job.. which it did with ease.
So if you're working with 300mm of concrete I wouldnt use anything less than a HD breaker.

[Reeder]

The man wants to play with his digger don't discourage him!!

haha +1

[tinpants]

The man wants to play with his digger don't discourage him!!

pmsl!! Its my digger and I'll play with it as much as I like!!


P'raps it is a bit of a trek to Shropshire on second thoughts. You could always hire one in, and I'll come up and drive it for you...

[454697819]

pmsl!! Its my digger and I'll play with it as much as I like!!


P'raps it is a bit of a trek to Shropshire on second thoughts. You could always hire one in, and I'll come up and drive it for you...

meh only takes 20 minutes to learn to drive one...

if you don't mind missing fence piles, and branches of your trees..?

[Kilted Ginger]

Ed its not that thick or wide, if its not reinforced then sledgehammer, job done.
If you do go down the jackhammer / sthilsaw route then beg, borrow steal steel toecap boots and goggles. I've done too many investigations on accidents where "it was only a 5 min job" was the excuse.
Difficult to change gears without toes, (its actually difficult to walk without toes.

[Ed]

What he really means is that he likes pulling knobs:lol:

[tinpants]

meh only takes 20 minutes to learn to drive one...

if you don't mind missing fence piles, and branches of your trees..?

Really? Is that a fact?

I've been driving / operating them for 20 years and I can quite categorically state that after 20 minutes you only know enough to kill yourself with one.

Whilst I realise that numbers was (hopefully) joking, there have been a lot of people killed by going out and hiring one for the weekend 'cos, after all, how hard can they be to drive?:rolleyes:

I learnt to use them in the Royal Engineers, and had to complete a 6 month long course, picking up 3 City & Guilds in the process. We had to learn to maintain the kit we were using, the theory behind the mechanics of the thing and different techniques for digging and levelling as well as different types of machines - dozers, tracked and wheeled loading shovels, light wheeled tractors (JCB type diggers) and compaction equipment, and wheeled and tracked excavators.


20 minutes? I don't think so!!:smt019:-D

[beabert]

Really? Is that a fact?

I've been driving / operating them for 20 years and I can quite categorically state that after 20 minutes you only know enough to kill yourself with one.

Whilst I realise that numbers was (hopefully) joking, there have been a lot of people killed by going out and hiring one for the weekend 'cos, after all, how hard can they be to drive?:rolleyes:

I learnt to use them in the Royal Engineers, and had to complete a 6 month long course, picking up 3 City & Guilds in the process. We had to learn to maintain the kit we were using, the theory behind the mechanics of the thing and different techniques for digging and levelling as well as different types of machines - dozers, tracked and wheeled loading shovels, light wheeled tractors (JCB type diggers) and compaction equipment, and wheeled and tracked excavators.


20 minutes? I don't think so!!:smt019:-D

Yep 15 minutes for me :D

[Specialone]

I agree with tinpants, you might know the controls after 20 mins, but you wont know how to operate it correctly.

Same as forklifts, you could be shown the controls quickly, dont mean you can operate one.

[beabert]

Its the same as anything, i could ride a bike after 20 minutes, but you could tell i had only been on it 20 minutes lol.

[454697819]

Really? Is that a fact?

I've been driving / operating them for 20 years and I can quite categorically state that after 20 minutes you only know enough to kill yourself with one.

Whilst I realise that numbers was (hopefully) joking, there have been a lot of people killed by going out and hiring one for the weekend 'cos, after all, how hard can they be to drive?:rolleyes:

I learnt to use them in the Royal Engineers, and had to complete a 6 month long course, picking up 3 City & Guilds in the process. We had to learn to maintain the kit we were using, the theory behind the mechanics of the thing and different techniques for digging and levelling as well as different types of machines - dozers, tracked and wheeled loading shovels, light wheeled tractors (JCB type diggers) and compaction equipment, and wheeled and tracked excavators.


20 minutes? I don't think so!!:smt019:-D

Id hope the Meh Indicates me pulling of ur leg..

I learnt to operate one, safely and successfully in a weekend, to the point I safely and successfully installed my package sewage treatment plant.

Without a doubt I am not the same skill level as you after 20 years, but the point I was trying to make is the 3 tonne one I had wasn't very difficult to learn to the point of being very effective with it.

Anyway

Back on track ,

Ed, you done the bloody job yet or what?

[speedplay]

Ed, where abouts are you as I have a large Hilti breaker you can use.

I've broken 300 mm (not reinforced) concrete with it no problems.

I go and see the girlfriend most weekends in Northwich so could meet somewhere if its any use.