speed limit to go up.....theres a first!

[dizzyblonde]

http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/28022011/36/speed-limit-reach-80mph-0.html

:cheers:

[Bluepete]

Be honest, if you drive at 70mph on any clear, free running motorway, do you overtake anything except lorries?

It's long past time we re-assessed speed limits. Lowering them is not always the way forward, we all know the story of how the 70mph limit came into being. Cars are waaaaaaaay more advanced than back then. The only fly in the pudding is that drivers are not evolving...

I'd be glad to see an increse on motorways.

Pete ;)

[davepreston]

lovely idea


therefore will never happen

[northwind]

Since when is there a speed limit on motorways? :smt104

[Electro]

Drive faster, use more fuel, spend more at the pump, generate more revenue for the government, i`d say it will happen if you go by that!!

[timwilky]

Personally I would raise it to 100. and take off the governors from trucks. The governed speed is the root cause of the bunching that eats into 2 lanes of the motorway

[davepreston]

Since when is there a speed limit on motorways? :smt104

ahhh my friend here's a few other things you should know
blue flashy lights mean ,move out of the way or stop the person behind wants a word

a big white flash behind you means, you must pay the goverment more money than you already do

a white sign with a black line diagonally across it doesnt mean, warp factor 3 mr sulu

hth

[Bibio]

it will never happen.

we have a bunch of old fuddy duddys running this country.

they would have to spend money on new signs

they would gain less revenue from speeding tickets

and as bluepete pointed out the standard of the average motorist driving ability in the country is shocking.

what would be better is a 'special licence holder' test which allowed you to travel at 90 on motorways but would only be valid for 3 years then a resit.

[dizzyblonde]

what would be better is a 'special licence holder' test which allowed you to travel at 90 on motorways but would only be valid for 3 years then a resit.


well why should I apply for one of those when its obvious I'm perfectly capable already?

[Bibio]

but are you?

have you been 'tested' to see if you are capable?

at the moment according to your test standard you are only able to do 70mph

[-Ralph-]

France is 110 in the wet and 130 in the dry. They've got it about right IMO. I wouldn't mind sticking to the limit if it were more realistic, but 80 can be inappropriate in some weather conditions, and before anybody starts with the nanny state argument, you all ride motorbikes, and you all know your average car driver can't be trusted to make their own risk assessments!

The way it is at the moment, you might as well do 95mph as 80 mph, it's the same penalty, so drivers take the "in for a penny in for a pound" approach and decide if they are going to risk a speeding ticket, they may as well do it properly and reduce their journey times by a decent margin in the process. If the guidelines for a court appearance were kept the same at anything more than 25mph over, those same drivers would just do 105 in an 80 limit, instead of 95 in a 70.

If the limit was increased, enforcement would also need to be increased, ie: average speed cameras everywhere, but then I doubt most drivers would mind the speed cameras if they could do 80 through them.

[dizzyblonde]

but are you?

have you been 'tested' to see if you are capable?

at the moment according to your test standard you are only able to do 70mph

weelll I ain't caused any accident yet, nor fallen off at that speed.;)

France is 110 in the wet and 130 in the dry. They've got it about right IMO. .

+1
Much more realistic, I found it most pleasant riding over there.

[thulfi]

what would be better is a 'special licence holder' test which allowed you to travel at 90 on motorways but would only be valid for 3 years then a resit.

who would bother applying for that test, especially if the resit is 3 years later?

Chances are anyone applying to that would believe they have the means and financial ability to sit the test, so these same people would probably think doing 90 consistently for 3 years might be worth the trade off in terms of chances they'd get caught.

And if you sat this test, would you still not want to go over 90?

[yorkie_chris]

they would have to spend money on new signs


No they wouldn't, motorways are NSL which is just one sign not a "70" sign, they could just rewrite the rules a bit to say that the motorway NSL is 80.

Would be a more sensible progression, dual carriageways can still be NSL and have T junctions going across them, would make sense for these to remain 70, motorways with only easy sweeping junctions to become 80.

[-Ralph-]

No they wouldn't, motorways are NSL which is just one sign not a "70" sign

Bibio is quite correct, because he lives in Scotland, where there are 70 signs on entry to quite a few of the motorways.

[Bibio]

i can see your points but would you rather that everyone in the uk was able to drive at higher speeds?

the only people that moan about resits are those that scraped past their test in the first place. any capable driver should be able to pass a driving test at any time. if they cant then they should not be on the roads.

setting a strict test would ensure that those individuals that are not capable would not gain such a licence.

i'm also a firm belever in test resits after 10 years of first passing then when you get to 60 you take another test every 5 years then at 70 its every 3 then at 79 its every 2 years and if you are good enough to get to 90 then i think you should be given a 'free for all' licence which entitles you to do what ever you want on the roads coz lets face it at 90 you aint got that long to go so let them enjoy themselves they should also get a free car, insurance and road tax.

[yorkie_chris]

i can see your points but would you rather that everyone in the uk was able to drive at higher speeds?

Yes, when conditions are safe to do so.

80 or 85 on the motorway would mean less people speeding. I'd also allow trucks to do 65 as the reduced speed differential would improve safety.

However I'd like to see it done with further policing to attack BAD driving not "illegal" driving which is never going to happen.

[Paul the 6th]

a white sign with a black line diagonally across it doesnt mean, warp factor 3 mr sulu


I think BP's words were "on a fine day where the road is suitable for it, a white circle with black diagonal line means fast as f**k in my book"

Paul ;)

[Paul the 6th]

i can see your points but would you rather that everyone in the uk was able to drive at higher speeds?

the only people that moan about resits are those that scraped past their test in the first place. any capable driver should be able to pass a driving test at any time. if they cant then they should not be on the roads.

setting a strict test would ensure that those individuals that are not capable would not gain such a licence.

i'm also a firm belever in test resits after 10 years of first passing then when you get to 60 you take another test every 5 years then at 70 its every 3 then at 79 its every 2 years and if you are good enough to get to 90 then i think you should be given a 'free for all' licence which entitles you to do what ever you want on the roads coz lets face it at 90 you aint got that long to go so let them enjoy themselves they should also get a free car, insurance and road tax.


Yes yes yes yes yes yes where do I sign for regular re-testing. I would happily pay the test fee's if it means the moron's who some magically gained a driving licence were weeded out as a result of regular re-testing, and if I happened to fail a retest then atleast attention has been brought to my poor driving..

The only people who agree with me & bibio on regular retesting are the ones who are happy to have their driving judged more than once, and the ones who moan seem to say "well I ain't crashed yet" - if you're so confident that you don't need testing because you're so good, why not just go and pass the retest - you know you're good enough :)

[Teejayexc]

Personally I would raise it to 100. and take off the governors from trucks. The governed speed is the root cause of the bunching that eats into 2 lanes of the motorway


It doesn't help, but by far the biggest cause of bunching on 2 lanes is all the silly c***s who just sit in the middle lane for hours on end when there is feck all in the inside lane.

Proper lane discipline should be taught from the outset.

[yorkie_chris]

Yes yes yes yes yes yes where do I sign for regular re-testing. I would happily pay the test fee's if it mean the moron's who magically gained a driving licence we weeded out as a result of regular re-testing, and if I happened to fail a retest then atleast attention has been brought to my poor driving..

The only people who agree with me & bibio on regular retesting are the ones who are happy to have their driving judged more than once, and the ones who moan seem to say "well I ain't crashed yet" - if you're so confident that you don't need testing because you're so good, why not just go and pass the retest - you know you're good enough :)

I'm for the retesting but against the expense. It's expensive enough trying to do any bloody thing without another rip off.

I'd be for a course or something provided by private firms, maybe something like 2 or 3 hours worth of pass-plus style thing. I'd set the pass standard fairly low, more a course than a test, but high enough that any proper mongs would need some further training to brush up.

[Specialone]

Not retesting, re assessing is what I'm in favour of, maybe make it linked to insurance ?

[beabert]

Yes yes yes yes yes yes where do I sign for regular re-testing. I would happily pay the test fee's if it means the moron's who some magically gained a driving licence were weeded out as a result of regular re-testing, and if I happened to fail a retest then atleast attention has been brought to my poor driving..

The only people who agree with me & bibio on regular retesting are the ones who are happy to have their driving judged more than once, and the ones who moan seem to say "well I ain't crashed yet" - if you're so confident that you don't need testing because you're so good, why not just go and pass the retest - you know you're good enough :)

These morons passed first time whats stopping them passing again? Better just having stricter penalties if caught driving dangerously, rather than put everyone through the stress of being examined. Completely against it.

A better option IMO is regular driver training, like the various courses some of you do here.

[beabert]

Not retesting, re assessing is what I'm in favour of, maybe make it linked to insurance ?

:)

[Balky001]

France is 110 in the wet and 130 in the dry.

That is KPH though.

I think a lot of bad driving is down to lack of knowledge. Old biddies sitting in the middle lane probably don't know any better (or are aware of the problems they cause) and probably do it for a different reason than the salesman in the 3 series up everyone's back side.

Re-testing/training would help, especially teaching drivers about lane discipline, the legalities of filtering, use of box junctions, indication, spacing, how to turn off fog lights! etc.

It's bad driving not speeding that causes most accidents

[yorkie_chris]

130kph is 80mph

[Balky001]

130kph is 80mph

yeah, long day :(

[Bibio]

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/4886/iwannatelluastory.jpg (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/iwannatelluastory.jpg/)

the standard of being able to drive in this country is shocking. why?

well my wife according to 'those that be' is capable of driving a 'suitably adapted vehicle' which put bluntly is an adapted car.

now according to them they are going to let a half paralysed person that suffers from dysphasia (google it) as she had part of her brain removed. out on the open roads in charge of a vehicle by herself. she had a full uk driving licence before the haemorrhage and because of this she does not need to pass a full driving test the assessment was all she needed.

so what does that say about driving standards in the uk?

[grimey121uk]

One dangerous side effect of raising the speed limit on motorways, is that you will still have the knuckle draggers that currently join motorways at 45mph on a clear day with traffic moving at 70mph
Imagine a 100mph limit with these idiots around.

Unless they just increase the limit in the outer lanes?

[-Ralph-]

I don't think raising the limit will necessarily reduce speeding, people in foreign countries with higher limits don't speed less, they just drive faster than the speeders do here. Same in countries with the same limits but less enforcement.

Enforcement is the only thing that will reduce speeding, as seen in France in the last ten years where the 100mph which was the norm has now dropped considerably closer to the 80mph limit.

An 80mph limit here, with no change in enforcement, will see your salesman in the 3 series doing 100mph, instead of the 90mph he does now.

The M40, and the Leicestershire section on the M1 from the M69 to the M6/A14, already has lane 3 running at 100mph on a regular basis, due to lack of enforcement.

[cbay]

Since when is there a speed limit on motorways? :smt104

Love this... :-)

[L3nny]

France is 110 in the wet and 130 in the dry.

Only country that has the right idea is Germany.

Why should my bike wihich can do 100-0 in about 2 seconds be governed by the same laws as a smart car??

[grimey121uk]

Only country that has the right idea is Germany.

Why should my bike wihich can do 100-0 in about 2 seconds be governed by the same laws as a smart car??


I was under the impression that cars stopped a lot quicker :confused:

Due to the 4 fat tyres

[L3nny]

Well you know what I mean, I have good brakes on my bike, on my car as well. Yet the highway code and the speed limits are based on 1960s cars with drums all round.

[Bluepete]

These morons passed first time whats stopping them passing again? Better just having stricter penalties if caught driving dangerously, rather than put everyone through the stress of being examined. Completely against it.

A better option IMO is regular driver training, like the various courses some of you do here.

The Gov't won't pay for the cost of the vast number of re-sits, failures, appeals etc. There are enough people driving without a licence now anyway, re-tests would just increase this number.

The flip side of the argument is more enforcement. However, as I pointed out, there are fewer traffic cops out there than ever before. We (GMP) are now running with only 150 for the entire farce. That's split betweeen five shifts, and there's never a full compliment available due to court, training, sickness, fatalities etc.

As for the idea that some drivers can have a special licence to speed - you'd still get stopped and have to go through the rigmarole of checking you are entiltled and would loose the benifit of the higher speed in the time you spend on the hard shoulder.

Realistically though, driving standards in the UK are so p1ss poor and lane discipline so none-existant that it would make no difference to average speeds unless the motorway was practically empty.

Pete ;)

[thedonal]

Higher speed limit would be nice- but all the idiot c**ts that sit in lane 3 below the speed limit make it hard to reach the existing one these days anyway!

I agree on lane discipline. It's getting awful out there. Really taking the fun out of riding.

[Balky001]

being able to pass in any lane might help. But I agree BP, lane discipline and general consideration is missing on our roads. I've resorted to undertaking (very carefully!) in the car when I've had enough of the lane hoggers but I know I'm the one that will get done. Surprising how many people do actually pull in to the slow lane after yet when you sit behind them the appear oblivious. That's why I think its ignorance rather than selfishness/arrogance that is 'often' the problem.

I love driving in France, even if they get a bit close sometimes you know what they are going to do, it's very predictable and lane discipline is very good. Overtaking and moving back to the first lane, even when you might need to pull out again 30 seconds later keeps you more alert too on long journeys.

[dizzyblonde]

Well at least Peg can use 40% of his bikes full speed potential then:rolleyes:


People generally ride/drive more than 70 anyway, I doubt it would make people speed up all the more, just even things out a bit more.

[yorkie_chris]

I agree on lane discipline. It's getting awful out there. Really taking the fun out of riding.

If your idea of fun is any road with more than 1 lane you need to have a word with yourself!

[Specialone]

If your idea of fun is any road with more than 1 lane you need to have a word with yourself!

Agreed apart from fish hill over this neck of the woods, twisty dual carriageway :)
A44 coming out of broadway, can't post a link as on phone, it's ace.
Ignore the Bromyard bit as I got confused.

http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx225/specialone0055/d5541010.jpg

[-Ralph-]

A44 coming out of broadway, can't post a link as on phone, it's ace.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Fish+Hill,+Broadway,+Worcestershire+WR12+7, +United+Kingdom&ie=UTF8&hl=en&geocode=FTPwGQMdWgrk_w&split=0&sll=52.046582,-0.021703&sspn=0.006295,0.006295&hq=&hnear=Fish+Hill,+Broadway,+Worcestershire+WR12+7,+ United+Kingdom&ll=52.032311,-1.838601&spn=0.004845,0.027874&z=16&layer=c&cbll=52.03147,-1.83899&panoid=Av1RkanEgV402rkyjniFmg&cbp=11,98.33,,0,1.05

[-Ralph-]

The flip side of the argument is more enforcement. However, as I pointed out, there are fewer traffic cops out there than ever before.

Realistically though, driving standards in the UK are so p1ss poor and lane discipline so none-existant that it would make no difference to average speeds unless the motorway was practically empty.

Trouble is, every time I see police on the motorway, they seem to be concentrating on catching speeders, and all the other bad driving such as tailgaiting and lane hogging gets ignored. Don't know what GMP is like for this.

[Bluepete]

There's no laser speed onforcement ony any motorway in the GMP area.

You have to be driving like a knob to get a speeding ticket from me in a following check. Bearing in mind there are no unliveried cars on the network, the fact that I can sit there glowing like a radioactive firefly whilst you race along, you deserve the ticket just for not seeing me!

The other issue is that most people see us and their driving becomes impeccable. Being a sneaky sod is part of the job.

As for tailgating etc, that's what I target the most after phone use. The driver improvement scheme is offered in place of points, but a fair few do end up picking up what makes prizes.

Pete ;)

[Lozzo]

All an 80mph speed limit will do is reduce the size of the speeding fine by 10mph's worth. No-one takes the blindest bit of notice of the 70 limit unless they are driving an HGV that's governed. I can't honestly think of one time I've happily sat at 70mph on a motorway for anything longer than a mile or so without getting bored and upping the speed.

[yorkie_chris]

There's no laser speed onforcement ony any motorway in the GMP area.

I see some battenburg 4x4 has almost always pulled someone going over the M62 summit. Is that Yorkshire side lot then or your lot has pulled them for something else?

[-Ralph-]

There's no laser speed onforcement ony any motorway in the GMP area.

You have to be driving like a knob to get a speeding ticket from me in a following check. Bearing in mind there are no unliveried cars on the network, the fact that I can sit there glowing like a radioactive firefly whilst you race along, you deserve the ticket just for not seeing me!

The other issue is that most people see us and their driving becomes impeccable. Being a sneaky sod is part of the job.

As for tailgating etc, that's what I target the most after phone use. The driver improvement scheme is offered in place of points, but a fair few do end up picking up what makes prizes.

Pete ;)

Good to hear, whoever manages your lot needs to come down to the Midlands, no end of unmarked cars of absolutely any make and model on the M6 doing speed checks. It's when there's an accident and they are rushing to it, they reveal themselves with the blues and twos, that you suddenly realise how many unmarked there is on the same stretch of motorway, and how many different makes, models and ages of car there is. We used to keep a thread up to date in the Madlanders section, but I've given up on it now, I see too many to keep track.

[dizzyblonde]

I see some battenburg 4x4

Cake:cheers:

[Bluepete]

YC,

We cover to J22 in BMW X5's.

Ralph, I wish there were some unliveried cars. As I said, people drive better when we're seen. If we could blend in, we could catch the poor drivers with good evidence and get them off the road.

[Balky001]

Ralph, I wish there were some unliveried cars. As I said, people drive better when we're seen. If we could blend in, we could catch the poor drivers with good evidence and get them off the road.

Shame you can't use the m-way cameras to check on poor driving and the electronic boards to put up messages like 'Reg ab60def - you're driving like a total nob, sort it or get pulled next junction'. Hmmm, not sure that would be enforcible but I'd like to see it

If we could get rid of the uninsured/unlicensed/untaxed drivers from the roads there would be loads more room and it would be a safer place.

[irons]

I was under the impression that cars stopped a lot quicker :confused:

Due to the 4 fat tyres

if a car stopped before my bike could id be worried, may have 4 nice fat tyres but they also weigh a hell of a lot more

agree with lozzo on this subject

[yorkie_chris]

if a car stopped before my bike could id be worried, may have 4 nice fat tyres but they also weigh a hell of a lot more

agree with lozzo on this subject

Cars stopping is traction limited, they can brake until the front wheels lock.
Bikes stopping is generally chassis limited, you will do a stoppie while only utilising half of the available grip.

That's the physics behind it, I could show you some sums but even with far better tyres on the bike the car will still stop sooner.

[dizzyblonde]

Shame you can't use the m-way cameras to check on poor driving and the electronic boards to put up messages like 'Reg ab60def - you're driving like a total nob, sort it or get pulled next junction'. .


I'd like that too

'oi....middlelaner Honda Jazz *reg number*, gerrroover to the slow lane, you old fart, people are undertaking you!

[L3nny]

Ok, the point I wasnt trying to make was which is better at stopping car vs bike. It was technology has moved on, therefore speed limits should too.

Mr Clarkson demostrates it a bit better here - jump to 1:50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azU1q-fkdns

If you take out reaction times (and the SLR stopped with some to spare to account for this)

It is as safe driving a SLR at 120 than it is driving a 1960 Ford Anglia (which I believe the stopping distances are based on) at 60 mph.

[andrewsmith]

All an 80mph speed limit will do is reduce the size of the speeding fine by 10mph's worth. No-one takes the blindest bit of notice of the 70 limit unless they are driving an HGV that's governed. I can't honestly think of one time I've happily sat at 70mph on a motorway for anything longer than a mile or so without getting bored and upping the speed.

Agree with Lozzo on this.

80 Mph is ze EU sticking ze oar in, with harmonisation the next thing is well be driving on the right and have the Denmark luxury tax

You up the limit to 80 people will do 90 like everyone does (me included) with 70 mph.

I like the camera name 'n' shame tho, shame the DVLA wouldn't allow peoples names to be shown :rolleyes:

[-Ralph-]

Show any name you like, the people behind on the motorway won't know any different.

[Dicky Ticker]

Yeh,lets have a better class of accident by going faster,after all we all seem to be surviving the copious amount we have on here at the slow speed we are allowed currently.Have I completely lost it or is there another thread running about fuel economy and you all want to go faster,sudden increase in wages or mental block?
This has to be the most contradictory forum in existence.
Foreign motorways are a lot less busy than ours and the general volume of traffic in Western Europe less apart from cities which are much the same

If we had better driving standards than we currently have the problem would be partially resolved,more than changing the speed limits will

[beabert]

Ok, the point I wasnt trying to make was which is better at stopping car vs bike. It was technology has moved on, therefore speed limits should too.

Mr Clarkson demostrates it a bit better here - jump to 1:50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azU1q-fkdns

If you take out reaction times (and the SLR stopped with some to spare to account for this)

It is as safe driving a SLR at 120 than it is driving a 1960 Ford Anglia (which I believe the stopping distances are based on) at 60 mph.

As everything on top gear is fake, id take it with a bag of salt :mrgreen: but im sure the principle is right.

[northwind]

You up the limit to 80 people will do 90 like everyone does (me included) with 70 mph.

I dunno... I think most people travel at the speed that feels about right, rather than the speed they think they can get away with. My car trundles along nicely at 80, at 90 it feels like it's working a wee bit too hard, at 100 it feels like it's about to implode. Put the limit to 80 and I'll still motorway bash at 80 and economy cruise at 60. Seems to be the old 85th percentile thing at work rather than "Oh better not go more than 10mph over"

[beabert]

I dunno... I think most people travel at the speed that feels about right, rather than the speed they think they can get away with. My car trundles along nicely at 80, at 90 it feels like it's working a wee bit too hard, at 100 it feels like it's about to implode. Put the limit to 80 and I'll still motorway bash at 80 and economy cruise at 60. Seems to be the old 85th percentile thing at work rather than "Oh better not go more than 10mph over"

Feels right? Its different for every car. I think its precisely what they think they will get away with :mrgreen:

[metalangel]

Meanwhile, in Spain:

http://www.euroweeklynews.com/2011022586144/news/spain/spanish-speed-limit-reduction-comes-into-force-in-march.html


THE government has decided to reduce the speed limit on dual carriageways to 110kph to help people save petrol. The law, which was announced by the Government Vice-president and Interior Minister, Alfredo Perez Rubalcaba, will come into effect on March 7, and has been announced as a provisional measure, although no mention was made of when it might be lifted.
The government claims the sole purpose of reducing the speed limit from 120kph to 110kph is to help people survive the constant rises in petrol prices, mainly due to the situation in Libya.
Meanwhile, Renfe will reduce the price of medium and short distance train tickets to encourage people to use trains

Alfredo Perez Chupacabra?!

[davepreston]

well why should I apply for one of those when its obvious I'm perfectly capable already?

but are you?

have you been 'tested' to see if you are capable?

at the moment according to your test standard you are only able to do 70mph

:takeabow: why yes i am my good man, and to well over double that speed :takeabow:

[Viney]

i was trundling up the M4 on Sunday is less than perfect conditions at, well lets say non legal speeds, and i wasn't passing much that's for sure.

One thing though that makes driving on, say, the French motorways, is that their lane discipline is MUCH better than ours and therefore trundling along at 130kph is much nicer. On Sunday i gave up counting the amount of pointless middle lane hoggers there were and i ended up undertaking most of them as i got bored of swinging out into lane 3 than back into lane 1

[metalangel]

Yeah, you watch some of those 'Porsches on the Autobahn' vids on Youtube and you see people who are clearly looking in their mirrors because they see a faster car coming so they MOVE THE FOOK OVER.

Well, apart from one dope in a Focus who moves OUT into the Porsche's path. The poster doesn't blame them much, though, saying the Porsche was coming up on them extremely fast.

[Bibio]

:takeabow: why yes i am my good man, and to well over double that speed :takeabow:

and your point is Mr Crashmonkey :rolleyes:

[Quedos]

One point that everyone missed is the difference in driving across borders. Ralph you should notice this.
I hate motorway riding south of the border -Hit the M6 all of a sudden its 100mph 3 inches of your backside while your overtaking something.
Even at 80 you don't pass much in Scotland so as usual a benefit for southerners.
80mph on the M80 doesn't sound too much fun and hope it doesn't extend to dual carriageways (A9)

thinks it more important to focus on the town reduction to 20mph.

[davepreston]

crashmomkey, 118 188 got your number
as for why you asked if poeple were qualified to drive at that speed ,well i am ,also blue light qualed and about 30 other thing which i shall never ever use again :)

[Dicky Ticker]

Ditto and some on here doing all the moaning don't even have a full unrestricted license.

[-Ralph-]

One point that everyone missed is the difference in driving across borders. Ralph you should notice this.
I hate motorway riding south of the border -Hit the M6 all of a sudden its 100mph 3 inches of your backside while your overtaking something.
Even at 80 you don't pass much in Scotland so as usual a benefit for southerners.
80mph on the M80 doesn't sound too much fun and hope it doesn't extend to dual carriageways (A9)

thinks it more important to focus on the town reduction to 20mph.

Yes, there is an obvious difference in the sheer volume of traffic, speeds and the level to which everyone is in a rush. Driving standards are better in Scotland in terms of awareness, observation, etc. In Scotland I'd choose the car over the bike if the weather was crap and I had the choice. Here I'd take the bike every time unless it was ice or snow. The roads are running to the limit of capacity down here, they are a cats whisker away from a traffic jam most of the time, so it only takes a small incident to tip the balance and cause a nightmare. If two alternative routes get blocked, switch off your ignition and forget it. 20 years ago you could come off the motorway and take an alternative route, now the A roads and towns are so packed, I regret it every time I try it, quicker just to sit in the jam on the motorway.

I was coming home from Leeds on Friday night and there was a problem on the M1 and the A1 was closed for an accident investigation, both just South of where the M62 joins them. With two major routes south closed or delayed, the North East just ground to a complete stop. The journey home took me 3 1/2 hours, would normally take 2.

The positive thing down here compared to Scotland, believe it or not, is there is LESS aggression. The Scots are more aggressive by nature, but down here most people are only interested in getting to where they are going by whatever means fair or foul, but it's not personal, they are not interested in what they perceive to be your bad driving and they are not interested in making sure you know what they think. There is far less beeping, flashing of lights, shaking of fists, flicking of middle fingers, shouting, and pulling in front of you and slamming the brakes on, etc. Get too close up somebody's tail on a busy English motorway and you'll be ignored, do it on the M8 and the guy in front will slam the anchors on, shake his fist then accelerate away as hard as he can. Another example is when overtaking on the bike and the oncoming vehicle starts flashing the headlights in protest, when he's still 300 yds away and you are going to finish your overtake several seconds before he gets anywhere near. Happens a lot in Scotland, a lot in Wales, doesn't happen down South, people just keep driving. Down here people are only interested in getting to where they are going, and not interested in what other drivers are doing around them, they've got enough to think about with their own driving, and they are much more accustomed to other vehicles getting close to them than drivers are in Scotland. What would annoy drivers in Scotland, is just par for the course down here.

[hongman]

Agree with some.

Raising the limit to 80 just means people will get less of a fine if caught. I dont think any reasonable amount would change their driving habits over it. Tw4ts sitting at 60 for no reason will still sit at 60, and others that go as fast as they can will still go as fast as they can.

Lane discipline is crap. I "undertook" on the SV the other day most of the way home in lane 1 becuase everyone decided lane 2 and 3 were the ones to be in. Longest stretch was on the M11, from the 1 mile marker all the way to junction turn off in rush hour (6ish). I mean, really?

How about enforcing a lower speed limit instead? Say, 60mph minimum for cars unless there is good reason not to.

[Bibio]

Driving standards are better in Scotland in terms of awareness, observation, etc.

The Scots are more aggressive by nature. What would annoy drivers in Scotland, is just par for the course down here.

and that my dear sir is why driving is better in Scotland as you had better pay attention and leave space or your gonna get in a fight. so people tend to be a bit more courteous.

so let that be a warning to you southern shandy drinkers thinking about visiting Scotland, leave your driving habits at the border. once you have crossed the border chill out, take care and enjoy the bliss.

[-Ralph-]

and that my dear sir is why driving is better in Scotland as you had better pay attention and leave space or your gonna get in a fight. so people tend to be a bit more courteous.

so let that be a warning to you southern shandy drinkers thinking about visiting Scotland, leave your driving habits at the border. once you have crossed the border chill out, take care and enjoy the bliss.

:lol: Road rage is not generally considered to be a good thing Bibio!

It also leads to a lot of people carrying a weapon of some description in the car.

I prefer driving down here in that respect.

You'll note that I carefully used the words "in what they perceive to be your bad driving".

Last one I had was joining the M74 at Bellshill, which is a two lane slip road, I was in the right lane, with a car behind, a car in front and nowhere to go but forwards. To the left of me is a car who starts indicating right and shuffling about in his lane, because he wants to join the motorway in my filter lane, instead of his which joins a few hundred feet later, and gets extremely frustrated that I am using the lane to his left (where I have priority in a flow of faster moving traffic BTW, he is supposed to put his indicator on and wait for a gap, or continue to the end of the slip and join the motorway with the rest of the slower traffic in his lane), so he is forced to stay in his lane and wait until I've joined the motorway. He leant on his horn, joined the motorway behind me, raced level with me on my right whilst his "beautiful" wife showed me how few teeth she had left by mouthing lots of f' words, then raced ahead again, pulled into my lane in front of me and slammed on the anchors!

I would see this kind of aggression on the roads in Scotland fairly regularly, whereas in the same situation down here, you might get a dirty look as they went past, but rrsssing around trying to run people off the road takes far too much time and effort, the only thing a driver down here would be interested in, is getting away in front of you further towards their destination, in as short a time as possible.

[-Ralph-]

A driving education problem that Scotland does suffer from with a lot of 2 lane motorways, is not understanding that faster traffic approaching in lane 2 has priority over lane 1. The majority think that putting on a right indicator gives them the priority to change lane. If you are that faster traffic, and you don't reduce your speed to let them out, they end up either swerving half way out then back in again in a panic, or braking to avoid running into the back of whatever it is they are trying to overtake, because they planned the lane change too late, then they get all upset with you because there wasn't a clear gap for them to pull into, and the light flashing and swearing starts behind you. The M8 is a nightmare for this.

[yorkie_chris]

and that my dear sir is why driving is better in Scotland as you had better pay attention and leave space or your gonna get in a fight. so people tend to be a bit more courteous.

so let that be a warning to you southern shandy drinkers thinking about visiting Scotland, leave your driving habits at the border. once you have crossed the border chill out, take care and enjoy the bliss.

You mean aggressive kn*bheads who think they know better are a GOOD thing?
Only one step from cagers swerving into your way when filtering because you're doing something "dangerous".

I'm all for considerate driving, but not for road rage. Only a matter of time before someone driving something bigger will take the hump and ram them off the road. Your mate there in ralphs example, personally I reckon he deserves to be wearing a 3 tonne battering ram 4x4 as a hat.

[tom-k6]

[QUOTE=yorkie_chris;2493028]You mean aggressive kn*bheads who think they know better are a GOOD thing?
Only one step from cagers swerving into your way when filtering because THEY THINK you're doing something "dangerous".
QUOTE]


im sure i heard a cager got sent down for 3 years because he could see a biker in his mirror going around the outside of a long line of traffic, the cager decides this is too dangerous so pulls out to stop the biker, not realising how close he is, biker swerves out to avoid him and comes off bike then under a van and sadly died.

[Specialone]

Only one step from cagers swerving into your way when filtering because you're doing something "dangerous".



This happened to me and ralph couple of weekends ago, overtaking stationary traffic in Kidderminster and some web footed window licker swerves towards ralph, then done the same to me when I about 75 ft behind, as he went past me I was virtually stopped and expected him to eyeball me, did he feck, he wouldn't even look in my direction.
I then watched him turn right into an estate, I was hoping ralph was gonna turn round as I was foaming at the mouth by now. Took me 30 mins to calm down.
I just don't get why they see it as a problem, this guy had loads of room, didn't have to slow down at all due to us filtering.

[-Ralph-]

This happened to me and ralph couple of weekends ago, overtaking stationary traffic in Kidderminster and some web footed window licker swerves towards ralph, then done the same to me when I about 75 ft behind, as he went past me I was virtually stopped and expected him to eyeball me, did he feck, he wouldn't even look in my direction.
I then watched him turn right into an estate, I was hoping ralph was gonna turn round as I was foaming at the mouth by now. Took me 30 mins to calm down.
I just don't get why they see it as a problem, this guy had loads of room, didn't have to slow down at all due to us filtering.

This guy was doing 20-30mph in oncoming traffic by the way, I was splitting the white line, and he swerved towards me, I had to butt flick the XT to the left to get through the gap between the car to my left and his front right wing to my right. Car to my left nearly got a nice scrape down the side. If I thought there had been any chance of catching him I might have pulled a U turn, but if he's prepared to do that then he probably prepared to side swipe you and take you off as you pull alongside for a wee chat! Just wasn't worth the aggro and possibility of being knocked off, a bike is not going to win a fight with a car whilst they are both still moving.

[jimmy4237]

The driving standards in scotland are just a complete joke. Empty motorway or quiet at times - idiots drive in lane 2 at 50mph in the 70 mph zones and are still using a mobile phone glued to their ears. Lane 1 is always virtually empty, and lane 3 is a cruising lane for doing 60mph, and not moving over to let faster traffic by....

I drive and live in the central belt of scotland in everything from bikes to artic trucks, and the things I see daily makes you wonder how on hell these idiots ever got a driving licence in the 1st place. I undertake when driving now after a while now, cos I get bored flashing them to move into the slow lane, and they still sit there like useless ****s... holding up 2 - 3 miles of traffic behind them. The police should be stopping them and charging them with obstructing traffic... Make the fine 4 figures and 11 penalty points....

Yet you drive a truck, have good lane discipline, etc etc, and the police and the public treat you like a third class piece of **** .The 1st thing they do to HGV drivers when being pulled over is PNC check them. I hold the firearm and shotgun certificates, and this info comes back to the officers over their radios... To get them you need to be a very good boy, and their entire attitude towards you then changes.. I just laugh now when I overhear their radios saying "Mr. so and so holds gun licences:smt019:smt019
They usually just let you go then after looking at your tachos. "Have a nice day sir is the responce I get now"

[irons]

Yes, there is an obvious difference in the sheer volume of traffic, speeds and the level to which everyone is in a rush. Driving standards are better in Scotland in terms of awareness, observation, etc. In Scotland I'd choose the car over the bike if the weather was crap and I had the choice. Here I'd take the bike every time unless it was ice or snow. The roads are running to the limit of capacity down here, they are a cats whisker away from a traffic jam most of the time, so it only takes a small incident to tip the balance and cause a nightmare. If two alternative routes get blocked, switch off your ignition and forget it. 20 years ago you could come off the motorway and take an alternative route, now the A roads and towns are so packed, I regret it every time I try it, quicker just to sit in the jam on the motorway.

I was coming home from Leeds on Friday night and there was a problem on the M1 and the A1 was closed for an accident investigation, both just South of where the M62 joins them. With two major routes south closed or delayed, the North East just ground to a complete stop. The journey home took me 3 1/2 hours, would normally take 2.

The positive thing down here compared to Scotland, believe it or not, is there is LESS aggression. The Scots are more aggressive by nature, but down here most people are only interested in getting to where they are going by whatever means fair or foul, but it's not personal, they are not interested in what they perceive to be your bad driving and they are not interested in making sure you know what they think. There is far less beeping, flashing of lights, shaking of fists, flicking of middle fingers, shouting, and pulling in front of you and slamming the brakes on, etc. Get too close up somebody's tail on a busy English motorway and you'll be ignored, do it on the M8 and the guy in front will slam the anchors on, shake his fist then accelerate away as hard as he can. Another example is when overtaking on the bike and the oncoming vehicle starts flashing the headlights in protest, when he's still 300 yds away and you are going to finish your overtake several seconds before he gets anywhere near. Happens a lot in Scotland, a lot in Wales, doesn't happen down South, people just keep driving. Down here people are only interested in getting to where they are going, and not interested in what other drivers are doing around them, they've got enough to think about with their own driving, and they are much more accustomed to other vehicles getting close to them than drivers are in Scotland. What would annoy drivers in Scotland, is just par for the course down here.

can tell your not from London or use the m25 much, here its very aggressive

[L3nny]

Least agressive place I have ever drive was suprisingly in Los Angeles. There is no lane discipline at all, it's a free for all so everyone is always expecting someone to come from any direction. You also have at least 4 lanes on most roads and they all move at more or less the same speed.

Another thing is that a lot of people carry guns in their cars so road rage is none exsistant becuase you could end up getting shot.

[metalangel]

When we went to LA my dad warned me: "Unlike everywhere else in the US, people in LA drive FAST."

Really? We drove all over the city at all times of day and night and I can't say I agree! Not because of traffic, either, even when the roads were quiet nobody drove as fast as they do in Europe.

While there is some lane discipline, it's not always possible as you can have offramps on the right AND left. Some people would say it's poor but on the other hand, as L3nny says, it also means you need to be aware of everything all around you.

[-Ralph-]

can tell your not from London or use the m25 much, here its very aggressive

I use the M25 about once a week. I bike into the centre of London quite often during the summer, or drive into the centre any time I have a London meeting in the morning, and something around or outside the M25 in the afternoon. If I'm in London only I'll use the train in the winter and the bike in the summer. 60% of my business occurs in London. The M25 is aggressive assertive, but it's not aggressive angry.

[Milky Bar Kid]

can tell your not from London or use the m25 much, here its very aggressive

It's a very different type of aggression...honestly, Scottish drivers are UNREAL!

[thedonal]

South London drivers are very agressive. Other parts not necessarily as much- assertive and inconsiderate yes- but not agressive.

Same with A3 to Weybridge. Just loads of thoughtless people not thinking of others around them.

Some mornings, I'd be lucky to do the speed limit in lane 3 on the A3- everyone just queues up in it.. (yes- there I go again about lane discipline!)

IF the speed limit goes up to 80, it will probably generate less revenue for the Govt, so I'm skeptical myself...