Exhaust markings and legality?

[daveyrach]

I have been reading about exhausts and all the arugument about has to be 'E' marked or not.

Now if this is the case i just bought a Motad Venom Plus Can, its loud but not deafening and has a baffle installed but it only has 2 markings which are both the same one at the top and one at the bottom, it says: E2 9095, now i think from what i found on Google this is an ECE Approval number. My question is am i correct and is this equivalent to an 'E' number?

[timwilky]

Yeah that's legal classed as an E mark

[madness]

If I'm not mistaken, if the exhaust is louder than the standard manufacturers exhaust (regardless of what markings it may have) it is illegal under the 'construction and use' act. So, pretty much any aftermarket exhuast you fit is illegal, including the one on my bike. Whether the law would bother is a different question.

[daveyrach]

But is is at the testers discretion on the day if it does carry an 'E' mark? Also i think it refers to something about similarly engined machines, i've heard Ducati's louder as standard!

[coolevilangel]

Its deffo down to individual discretion imo
My pipes are 'loud' to say the least, with no markings of any kind
Mot'd and even been to a bikesafe day with no probs.
Yeah the coppers that i was out with on the bikesafe commented they were pretty loud (they covered their ears lol)
but it was all in good jest.
Rekon it comes down to the individual at the end of the day.

[Milky Bar Kid]

If I'm not mistaken, if the exhaust is louder than the standard manufacturers exhaust (regardless of what markings it may have) it is illegal under the 'construction and use' act. So, pretty much any aftermarket exhuast you fit is illegal, including the one on my bike. Whether the law would bother is a different question.

Yeh that is correct.

[The Guru]

My bike fitted with Scorpion Street Extreme (baffled) failed last years MOT for

"Exhaust fitted is clearly in excess of that emitted by a similar motor bicycle fitted with a standard silencer in average condition [7.1.2]"

As said before, its down to the discretion of the MOT tester.

:smt091

[timwilky]

My bike fitted with Scorpion Street Extreme (baffled) failed last years MOT for

"Exhaust fitted is clearly in excess of that emitted by a similar motor bicycle fitted with a standard silencer in average condition [7.1.2]"

As said before, its down to the discretion of the MOT tester.

:smt091

Sounds to me like the tester failed.

My tester considers a loud can an essential safety feature.

Now one subscriber to the org has a brother who is a car mot inspector. He did his own car and issued himself an advisory. Bet you cannot guess who (clue here) his org using sister is?

[daved407]

Would I be right in thinking that the testing centre that failed the bike for too loud wont be getting many bikers attending a second time. Until the examiner reassesses his own standards? People voting with the wallet may have the desired effect.

[daveyrach]

Like i say i can thin of a few makes which are 'loud' as standard, such as Harley Davidson's and Ducati's!

[emcf]

when i got pulled by a bike copper a while back due to my exhaust (sans baffle) he said that anything louder than OE is not allowed. he told me to stick the baffle back in though and it would not be a problem.

[sath182]

Stock Harley exhaust really isn't that loud on it's own. Mix in the owner though and that's a different story.

[paiste]

My bike fitted with Scorpion Street Extreme (baffled) failed last years MOT for

"Exhaust fitted is clearly in excess of that emitted by a similar motor bicycle fitted with a standard silencer in average condition [7.1.2]"

As said before, its down to the discretion of the MOT tester.

:smt091
That's pooh! I've just had my 1000 MOT'd and it passed without any advisories with baffleless yoshis.

[Milky Bar Kid]

when i got pulled by a bike copper a while back due to my exhaust (sans baffle) he said that anything louder than OE is not allowed. he told me to stick the baffle back in though and it would not be a problem.

Yep like I said earlier, that's correct. Just cos it passes an MOT doesn't mean it is legal and you can't get a ticket.

[Bluefish]

Yep like I said earlier, that's correct. Just cos it passes an MOT doesn't mean it is legal and you can't get a ticket.


Bit crap that though, most people would think that their vehicle was legal if it had just passed an mot. Not everybody that rides bikes is on a forum where they might find out stuff like this.

[timwilky]

Firstly a cut & paste of the legal side for type approval

(d) Exhausts - Replacement Silencer (any silencer not fitted to the vehicle when it was
originally manufactured). A replacement silencer for motorcycles and mopeds first used on or
after 1 January 1985 must be constructed so that if it was fitted to an unused machine of the
same model and date of first use, the machine would comply with the requirements of the
Directive or British Standard applicable at that date.
Silencers are also subject to a number of marking requirements. No machine used on the
road may be fitted with a silencer marked “Not For Road Use” or words to that effect.
Similarly, any silencer fitted to a machine first used after 1 January 1985 must be clearly and
indelibly marked as follows:
Date of first use Marking
01/01/85 –
31/03/91
• Make and type of silencer, or
www.vca.gov.uk (http://www.vca.gov.uk)
VCA039 Page 6 of 7 Revision 5
• Manufacturer’s name or mark, and part number, or
• Manufacturer’s name or mark, AND “e” or “E” mark with approval number, or
• BS AU 193/T2, or BS AU 193a: 1990/T2, or
• BS AU 193a: 1990/T3, or
• Equivalent international standard marking.
01/04/91 –
31/01/96
• Manufacturer’s name or mark, and part number, or
• Manufacturer’s name or mark, AND “e” or “E” mark with approval number, or
• Make and type of silencer, or
• BS AU 193a: 1990/T3, or
• Equivalent international standard marking.
01/02/96 –
31/01/97
• Manufacturer’s name or mark, and part number, or
• Manufacturer’s name or mark, AND “e” or “E” mark with approval number, or
• BS AU 193a: 1990/T3, or
• Equivalent international standard marking.
01/02/97
onwards
• Manufacturer’s name or mark, AND “e” or “E” mark with approval number, or
• BS AU 193a: 1990/T3, or
• Equivalent international standard marking.
The European Community noise limits applicable to new motorcycles first used from 1 April 1991
are:
Motorcycle Category by cm3 Limits in dB(A)
Up to and including 80 77
Between 80 and 175 (incl.) 79
Above 175 82
Motorcycles approved to EU Directive 97/24/EC, Chapter 9 will be 2dB(A) less than the above
figures.
(Note: the precise regulations for motorcycle exhausts are complex and it is
recommended that they are studied closely to obtain accurate and complete details of
the requirements).
Before buying any replacement parts for systems listed in this section, riders should check for
the relevant marks, where applicable. These will include an “e” mark for EC Directives, an “E”
mark for ECE Regulations and “BS” for British Standards.
(Note: amateur motorcycle builders may be exempt from some or all of the
requirements)

Now my opinion
It is easy for plod assuming his wife has just run off with his best mate and taken him for every penny, the tart he did against the wall at the weekend has given him crabs and his boss has balled him out for not enough tickets. The easy is the markings, assuming that he actually knows the law Most don't. However if he wants to make assumptions and say it is too noisy. Tell him to measure it. If he cannot produce from fresh air a calibrated sound measure device and be trained in its use. His opinion is of no value and you can ride away. In order to test against the type approval methods he cannot do it at the roadside anyway. (I used to do type aproval testing, you need a large empty site, be able to do ride pass as well as static tests)

However, if he is an ****, he is entitled to sieze your bike in order to get it tested.

[daveyrach]

So based on the the E2 9095 mine is stamped with relates to an EC Directive as mentioned above does it not?

[PuggledPrune]

I doubt that the Renegade exhaust I just got is even vaguely legal, but it sounds LOVELY!

Interesting read though peeps. I've got my stock exhaust for MOT's.

[timwilky]

For MOT you simply need a tester who knows the rules. There is no requirement for any marking. So long as it does not say not for road use or race use only etc. There is no noise test. It is a subjective assessment is it any louder than a comparable bike. Put two bikes alongside each other with baffles removed and the test is passed. It is no louder.

Remember an MOT uses VOSA rules. Not the construction and use regulations that the plod enforce.

[embee]

Good "chapter and verse" post from TW there. This is a bit reminiscent of the infamous "33BHP" thread, the issues of where the "law" and it's enforcement get very confused, mostly down to short sighted or incompetent drafting in the first place. It's all very well having laws but if there's no practical way of determining whether something is in compliance then it is effectively useless in real life.

I thought the "relaxation" of the MOT rules regarding exhausts a few years ago was a welcome recognition of the real life environment. It isn't perfect because it introduces "opinion", but then so do many MOT issues (how much wheel bearing play do you accept?), but most MOT folks are decent and practical and, unlike politicians, they do live in the real world.

My view is that these laws as they stand simply give the Police tools with which they can take to task someone who is clearly offending in some other way also, unless as one serving ocifer put it in the 33BHP thread, effectively Joe Public has to prove his innocence. The markings are probably a convenient determining factor in many cases, but of course not all bikes need marked exhausts according to the regs anyway, as TW says.

I reckon if my insurance co. is happy, and the MOT man is happy, then I'm happy. If Plod is unhappy it's probably for some other reason.

[Milky Bar Kid]

Bit crap that though, most people would think that their vehicle was legal if it had just passed an mot. Not everybody that rides bikes is on a forum where they might find out stuff like this.

An MOT doesn't proclaim to state your vehicle is road legal though, only that it passes certain saftey standards etc etc...

[hongman]

Yeah but a lot (I bet majority) of road users don't realise that.

I think the fact that its a legal requirement to have one is where it trips people up.

Legal requirement to have one = Vehichle passed MOT = legal to use on the road - bet thats how most think it.

[kaivalagi]

Legal requirement to have one = Vehichle passed MOT = legal to use on the road - bet thats how most think it.
I certainly did until today...if it's not the case then maybe the MOT should be aligned with the law or the law aligned with it?

[Gareth]

Mine has a Beowolf can on it which has never seen a baffle. Been through 2 MOTs without any problems. The law may say different but loud exhausts help save lives.

[sputnik]

My bike fitted with Scorpion Street Extreme (baffled) failed last years MOT for

"Exhaust fitted is clearly in excess of that emitted by a similar motor bicycle fitted with a standard silencer in average condition [7.1.2]"

As said before, its down to the discretion of the MOT tester.

:smt091


Andy

Given that you live quite near to me, and I have a stubby scorpion pipe, and it'll soon be MOT time, can I ask you where you got the failing test done? (or perhaps I just mean where you got done!)

[a_monkey_hint]

Mine has a Beowolf can on it which has never seen a baffle. Been through 2 MOTs without any problems. The law may say different but loud exhausts help save lives.

Thats the way I see it. When I'm filtering I'm glad I have my loud exhaust.

[The Guru]

Andy

Given that you live quite near to me, and I have a stubby scorpion pipe, and it'll soon be MOT time, can I ask you where you got the failing test done? (or perhaps I just mean where you got done!)

Our not so helpful local Suzuki dealer in Falkirk.

I take it to Saltire for everything now. Its an all round nicer experience. :takeabow:

[sputnik]

Our not so helpful local Suzuki dealer in Falkirk.

I take it to Saltire for everything now. Its an all round nicer experience. :takeabow:


Cheers for that - I will have to plan accordingly as my pipe is distinctly on the 'fruity' side! :smt067 Annoying though as they are handy for me.

Incidentally, I believe our local Suzuki dealer is no longer a Suzuki dealer. Maybe they just fail noisy Suzukis - sour grapes!

[The Guru]

It was 3yrs ago, they failed it when they were dealers... so doubt it.