View Full Version : The Budget....
good things so far...
fuel duty down a penny, woop de do, but its a start i guess
personal allowance for those earning under £35k increased by £1,000.
The whole thing is hilarious.
If I acted the way they do at work I would be handed my P45.
So fecking immature and pathetic.
Isnt fuel duty staying the same rather than going up? it all helps i guess
good things so far...
fuel duty down a penny, woop de do, but its a start i guess
personal allowance for those earning under £35k increased by £1,000.
+1 on behaviour
I've just turned the slagging match off now
fuel duty 1p per litre from 6pm tonight - typical - I've just filled up!
I really don't know how Labour can stand there bitching... half the trouble is their ****ups.
We certainly can't ever let that **** who can't sssslllpeak properly into power.
I really don't know how Labour can stand there bitching... half the trouble is their ****ups.
We certainly can't ever let that **** who can't sssslllpeak properly into power.
and you could say that they were trying to fix the one from the last lot ad infinitum. I still hope that one date it will not be reduce down a slagging match between and they accept that this what they face and this is how they will deal with without blaming anyone - I know I can hope
hang on - VAT up 3p on litre of fuel and 1p off at the pump - How does that work?!?!
SoulKiss
23-03-11, 01:51 PM
hang on - VAT up 3p on litre of fuel and 1p off at the pump - How does that work?!?!
Being taxed twice on something - how does THAT work?
and you could say that they were trying to fix the one from the last lot...
they could but they'd be lying... they were in charge for how long? 12 years? they were the one's that caused the mess we're in make no mistake about that
some fuel duty escalator has been taken away too. think that means if oil goes up it doesnt necessarily mean the price at the pumps goes up...
Teejayexc
23-03-11, 04:08 PM
they could but they'd be lying... they were in charge for how long? 12 years? they were the one's that caused the mess we're in make no mistake about that
...and hatcher Thatcher had feck all to do with it I suppose?
Who started the get rid of anything Great in Britain and sell it to the highest bidder/foreigners so they can charge what they like and there's feck all we can do about it :smt013
Excellent, we save 1p...
Never mind fuels gone up over 15p, yet the barrel price is still well below the $100 mark (the point of it going mental and reaching 1.20 a fair while back), but hey, thanks for that 1p saving.....
£17 to fillup this bike 4 years ago.
£25.20 at last fillup.
Excellent, back down to £25 ish... Time to go raid the penny sweet counter at the corner shop :smt016:smt069
...and hatcher Thatcher had feck all to do with it I suppose?
Who started the get rid of anything Great in Britain and sell it to the highest bidder/foreigners so they can charge what they like and there's feck all we can do about it :smt013
And who sold off all the gold at knock down prices when all the economists were saying hang on to gold?
It's a round the houses argument that won't get us out of the current mess.
maviczap
23-03-11, 04:15 PM
...and hatcher Thatcher had feck all to do with it I suppose?
Who started the get rid of anything Great in Britain and sell it to the highest bidder/foreigners so they can charge what they like and there's feck all we can do about it :smt013
Have to agree, Maggie removed the import tariffs on clothing, designed to protect our own industry. So within a few years all our clothing is made overseas and most of our mills are closed
If you don't believe me, check the label in your pants :)
Thats just one example
Labour certainly made a hash of things, but things have been going down hill for a long long time
maviczap
23-03-11, 04:27 PM
And who sold off all the gold at knock down prices when all the economists were saying hang on to gold?
It's a round the houses argument that won't get us out of the current mess.
Yes another great example of the last Govements ineptitude
Sack the govenment, they haven't had one in Belgium for a year :p
davepreston
23-03-11, 04:37 PM
what sort of a bunch of feckwits are we ,seriously
were getting screwed on all fronts and were thankfully for a 1p drop in petrol , i give up
...and hatcher Thatcher had feck all to do with it I suppose?
Who started the get rid of anything Great in Britain and sell it to the highest bidder/foreigners so they can charge what they like and there's feck all we can do about it :smt013
we werent far off a bloody third world nation before Queen Maggie took over and pulled the country up off its ****. she made hard decisions, and didnt feign from them.
Keithd - Get out. Go away.
That is all :)
Im with Keith. She sold the useless companies. Shut down the mines, pointess terrible car industries etc... All superb companies with great futures..... England out of Debt, labour in power, England back in debt... THis is a vicious circle.
chuckled at a news report.
"Petrol down 1p as from 6pm tonight"
"But you've put it up 3p this year already, people arn't stupid, this is Del Boy politics" :lol:
Try 10p per litre, try at least to get it below £1.20 again, but it never ever will. It will only ever go up, and up, and awaaaayyyyy.
ah you all remember those cosy nights in with no electricity, 3 day weeks, unions ruling industry. imagine what bob crow would be like in them "good" old days eh...
Useless companies like
British telecom
British Steel
British gas
probably chuck it railways and some other utilities...
Hmm I wonder which sectors are making money..that'll be mining and fuels..
and take away our milk too why dont you...
you wonder why nothing is british anymore?
Im with Keith. She sold the useless companies. Shut down the mines, pointess terrible car industries etc... All superb companies with great futures..... England out of Debt, labour in power, England back in debt... THis is a vicious circle.
chuckled at a news report.
"Petrol down 1p as from 6pm tonight"
"But you've put it up 3p this year already, people arn't stupid, this is Del Boy politics" :lol:
Try 10p per litre, try at least to get it below £1.20 again, but it never ever will. It will only ever go up, and up, and awaaaayyyyy.
maviczap
23-03-11, 05:09 PM
Useless companies like
British telecom
British Steel
British gas
probably chuck it railways and some other utilities...
Hmm I wonder which sectors are making money..that'll be mining and fuels..
and take away our milk too why dont you...
you wonder why nothing is british anymore?
Yep
All our coal is imported from Russia and South America these days, plus a lot of our gas comes from Russia as well. We're over reliant on foreign fuel to keep our lights on and heat our water
Labour squandered or gold reserves, but Maggie squandered or oil money, unlike Norway who are cash rich and not in the EU
unlike Norway who are cash rich and not in the EU
aaaah the EU.... talk of a referendum isnt there, to pull out of the EU?
maviczap
23-03-11, 05:17 PM
aaaah the EU.... talk of a referendum isnt there, to pull out of the EU?
Yes, another can of worms there. Good job Gordo didn't get us into the € otherwise we'd be bailing out the Greeks & the Irish (oh we have done anyhow :mad:)
According to AOOL's headline the average family is £400 worse off :(
The day the present day government ( whoever they are ) don't blame the one before is the day i will start to take politicians seriously. Its all too childish and playground behaveviour. I really don't care who's to blame I'm more interested in how they are going to get out of the mess
Every governement will have it good and bad points for everyone and the bad points will always be used to gain points over the others. Police forces love Maggie so I believe. However whinging about the past doesn't make it right
davepreston
23-03-11, 06:02 PM
just done the calculator on the bbc web site and supposedly i'll be 400 odd quid better off, mmm we will see
Bluefish
23-03-11, 06:07 PM
buget calculator here, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/business/budget_calc/html/budget_calculator.stm
tinpants
23-03-11, 07:12 PM
Yep
All our coal is imported from Russia and South America these days, plus a lot of our gas comes from Russia as well. We're over reliant on foreign fuel to keep our lights on and heat our water
Labour squandered or gold reserves, but Maggie squandered or oil money, unlike Norway who are cash rich and not in the EU
Hmm. Ever been to Norway? Most expensive country I've ever been to. I was there for 3 months back in 1992, when a beer was roughly £4.50 a pint, and a 12" pizza was £26. Come out of the EU? Yeah, great, go for it. We can barely afford to live as it is, lets go the whole hog and push prices right through the ceiling!!
BTW Reeder, how the feck do you feel qualified to comment on what Maggie did? You weren't even out of nappies when she was PM. I know she did some really daft stuff but she took 5hit off no-one and got this country back on its feet.
maviczap
23-03-11, 07:18 PM
Hmm. Ever been to Norway? Most expensive country I've ever been to. I was there for 3 months back in 1992, when a beer was roughly £4.50 a pint, and a 12" pizza was £26. Come out of the EU? Yeah, great, go for it. We can barely afford to live as it is, lets go the whole hog and push prices right through the ceiling!!
Yes I know this, but its been like that for as long as I can remember and you basing your calculations on what your £ will buy you, its different for the natives and you should compare prices with what the average Joe can buy with his Krone.
The country has enough wealth so that the standard of living is very good for Mr & Mrs Joe Public, its why they didn't want to join the EU and see their money go down the drain
buget calculator here, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/business/budget_calc/html/budget_calculator.stm
If you want to feel what 2007 felt like... this years is located at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12773565
Looks like I'll be about £170 better off... better than a kick in the teeth, anyway.
Teejayexc
23-03-11, 07:30 PM
we werent far off a bloody third world nation before Queen Maggie took over and pulled the country up off its ****. she made hard decisions, and didnt feign from them.
Queen Maggie ? ffs, you having a larf :smt097
..and fecked the country up big time.
Who was it that encouraged everyone to buy their own house then pull away the mortgage relief when they had. Sell the council houses to tenants for feck all and encourage private investors to build social housing - that worked didn't it, private investment bought all the cheap stock so they could charge what they like renting 'em back to councils.
maviczap
23-03-11, 07:34 PM
I remember when Norman Lamont got his sums wrong and interst rates doubled to near 15% overnight, caused one or two folk a few sleepless nights.
So things under Maggie wern't always that great
£497 worse off.
Bring back Maggie
BTW Reeder, how the feck do you feel qualified to comment on what Maggie did? You weren't even out of nappies when she was PM. I know she did some really daft stuff but she took 5hit off no-one and got this country back on its feet.
Shut the **** up and get back in your cage whoever the hell you are. I'm entitled to my own opinion aren't I? Is what you're saying that I'm not allowed to talk about anything before I was born? You know NOTHING of my levels of education so I just suggest you shut up.
davepreston
23-03-11, 08:37 PM
reeder im not involved in this discussion to much, but i suggest you wind your neck in a bit as you dont have a clue about who your talking to (i do), being a computer comando will not end well for you
now thats just friendly advice
steve.w
23-03-11, 08:38 PM
Everyone is entitled to an opinion of course but with all due respect reading/learning about something and actually living through it are polar opposites.
BTW Maggie is a bitch :) (ex coal miner)
Bluefish
23-03-11, 08:50 PM
so who's going to be to blame when the post office cut 20,000 jobs in the next 4 years?, oh i'm sure they will go on strike :reaper:
Sid Squid
23-03-11, 09:10 PM
Keithd - Get out. Go away.
That is all :)
You haven't a clue have you?
Keithd is precisely correct in all he has written in this thread - so far.
There'll be opportunities to ruin that later of course.
The day the present day government ( whoever they are ) don't blame the one before is the day i will start to take politicians seriously.
I see what you're saying but the last thirteen sorry Labour years were a shining example of how not to run a country - and I don't just mean economically, we are the most watched country in Europe.
The handling of our money - it's not 'government' money it's ours, yours and mine - was simply inexcusably inept, wasteful, arrogant and clueless, Gordon Brown must have failed his maths 'O' level, there's no other way to account for the ridiculously hopeless way in which he handled the economy. I felt sorry for Darling, there was precisely nothing he could do to even start to repair the damage caused by more than a decade of incompetence and attempted vote buying - check out our level of public spending - even Keynes would blanche at that.
And what's worse is that the left STILL keep braying about public spending and denying that there's even a problem, that is simply incompatible with any understanding of the situation. Public spending encourages nothing economically, the only way to get us back in the black is make private industry spend - that's jobs and tax money paid that we'll ALL benefit from.
Harsh decisions need to be taken, shying away from that isn't an option.
I'm not going to wind my neck in at all and I'm not a computer commando. I'm not threatening anyone or doing anything wrong? I'm voicing my opinion as I would do in person. As I've said before, assault is illegal so if anyone actually does anything to me because of something I say to them in person then more fool them as they'll be the one suffering the consequences.
I made a jokey comment because I have an opinion of her that I am fully entitled to have whether I've lived through what she did or not... regardless no one should come on and start being a **** to me just because of that. I didn't offend anyone at all so where did his comment come from?!
Ridiculous.
fizzwheel
23-03-11, 09:32 PM
Ridiculous.
As is your over reaction.
Sid Squid
23-03-11, 09:33 PM
assault is illegal so if anyone actually does anything to me because of something I say to them in person then more fool them as they'll be the one suffering the consequences.
Are you suggesting fisticuffs will ensue as a result of this thread?
Not at all Sid, I'm saying that me being a 'computer commando' is not accurate. Implying that I would only say this on the internet and not to the person. I was giving my reasoning as to why I see it as no problem saying it face to face.
andrewsmith
23-03-11, 09:40 PM
Are you suggesting fisticuffs will ensue as a result of this thread?
I'd lock this thread before it becomes a slagging match.
Maggie did things wrong, Labour have done things wrong.
She sold/ privatised all the industries that are making offensive amounts of money. Gordon sold the national gold reserves
Teejayexc
23-03-11, 09:42 PM
I'd lock this thread before it becomes a slagging match.
Nooooo, it's just getting interesting :smt112
Bluefish
23-03-11, 09:43 PM
I don't remember them making that much money when they were sold though :rolleyes:
andrewsmith
23-03-11, 09:53 PM
I don't remember them making that much money when they were sold though :rolleyes:
gold or industries?
Both were let go for buttons
Careful Smithers. You're only a couple of years older than me. You didn't live through it.
Bluefish
23-03-11, 09:57 PM
Industry
Although the fuel duty is going down by a penny, the oil companies are going to have some extra tax slammed on them. Reading between the lines I imagine that when the oil companies hike the price of oil to the consumer to compensate for the additional tax burden on them, the government will be able to shrug theirsholders and say something like "Well, we put the tax down, it's the oil companies to blame" or something similar I imagine.
On the one hand, there are giveaways of £1.9m to car drivers from the cancellation of the fuel duty rises and a cut of 1p from April 2011, and to companies, from the decrease in the main corporation tax rate and the reform of the CFC rules. On the other hand, these are being paid for by oil companies (new tax rate while oil prices are so high), banks (an increase to the bank levy), footballers and some executives (the disguised remuneration anti-avoidance rules) and polluters (the carbon price floor).
http://www.ukbudget.com/UKBudget2011/UKBudget2011-overview.cfm
Bluefish
23-03-11, 09:58 PM
Careful Smithers. You're only a couple of years older than me. You didn't live through it.
But he's seen Billy Elliot, or is, not sure ;)
andrewsmith
23-03-11, 10:00 PM
Careful Smithers. You're only a couple of years older than me. You didn't live through it.
I know I am mate.
I'm from one of the areas that was pulled to pieces by Thatcher, my folks were on strike several times in the 70's and 80's so conservative is akin with voting for lucifer.
Reading this thread with real interest and heres my two pence worth (saved today from 2 litres of petrol :))
I love the way people think that the likes of Gordon and Maggie and Blair and to a lesser extent Major ran around ****ing the country up. This simply is'nt true! I beleive that they genuinely beleive that they are doing the right thing for the country but are hamstrung by two interwined problems that they will never be able to solve.
1) We and the press want more than we are willing to pay for.
2) We and the press want it right now.
These two truths are known by all politicians and therefore they have to botch what they can to give the illusion of the above being done and remain in power to try and effect some changes over the longer term.
You have two blunt choices in our politics;
1) Low taxes better over all country finances but dwindling public services under the tories.
2) Higher taxes country in worse financial state but maintained and some improvements to public services under Labour.
you pays your money and takes your choices.
And for the record, firstly Thatcher believed that by removing public services and giving us tax breaks that we would all be prudent and save and invest in private services. We didnt, we blew it in a massive boom bust from 89' t0 91' She forgot to factor in human nature and therefore thatcherism as we know is fundamentally flawed due to humans :)
Secondly after winning in 97' Labour, had to deliver on their promises of new investment in public services. They couldnt say we were wrong this is going to take 20yrs and took money on teh never, never to deliver what they had promised. They beleived that the booom bust was over (hello **** heads) and when the inevitable bust came they coudnt pay the man.
The Country needs a swing about every 8-10yrs between the two parties to maintain the status quo but until we as a public along with teh press change our atitude we are always going to have smoke and mirrors.
davepreston
23-03-11, 10:46 PM
an articulate ,well written responce
are you sure your in the right place
dave
tinpants
23-03-11, 10:49 PM
I remember when Norman Lamont got his sums wrong and interst rates doubled to near 15% overnight, caused one or two folk a few sleepless nights.
So things under Maggie wern't always that great
Blimey yeah! 5hit I remember that!! I'd just bought me first house! Damn near cacked meself when the payments went up by nearly £100 a month!!
Rog, you pretty much nailed my opinion, inc the history.
Also, there is no right or wrong answer. Its all about what an individual wants/expects and how its funded.
Politics is subjective so stop fighting over it.
Sid Squid
23-03-11, 10:56 PM
British telecom
British Steel
British gas
probably chuck it railways and some other utilities
Has it never occurred to you to consider why they were in the state's hands?
They were not industries that were incepted by the state - they were variously taken over by the government of the day, (stolen), in order to bring sizeable swathes of the population under their control. And with the help of irresponsible unions driven into the ground.
The following four decades saw an exponential expansion in the mechanism, regulation and control by the state.
And now you're complaining taxes are so high?
Anything to do with the mechanism of state employing all of those people that should never have been under their control do you think?
Large state = high costs, (taxes). End of.
The entire mechanism of state should be reviewed and only that which is absolutely and utterly necessary should continue - everything else must go.
'Socialism' is a recipe for statism, the infantile 'Socialist' experiment has been repeatedly proven an absolute and complete failure with no possibility of redemption, its reliance on a frankly idiotic ideology is a failure to appreciate how humans function:
If there's no possibility of failure, there's no purpose in success.
It's taken a few short years to breed a generation that has been promised, (lied to), by the left that voting 'Socialist' wil mean they'll always be rescued and cannot fail.
And now we're feeling the effects of that.
Continue in the ways of the most recent disastrous 'Socialist' years and things can only worsen.
I guess that means the government should bin the NHS as I'm sure they employ a fair few people too.
Stability of the necessities such power /utilites and the banking system surely should be considered.
Has it never occurred to you to consider why they were in the state's hands?
They were not industries that were incepted by the state - they were variously taken over by the government of the day, (stolen), in order to bring sizeable swathes of the population under their control. And with the help of irresponsible unions driven into the ground.
The following four decades saw an exponential expansion in the mechanism, regulation and control by the state.
And now you're complaining taxes are so high?
Anything to do with the mechanism of state employing all of those people that should never have been under their control do you think?
Large state = high costs, (taxes). End of.
The entire mechanism of state should be reviewed and only that which is absolutely and utterly necessary should continue - everything else must go.
'Socialism' is a recipe for statism, the infantile 'Socialist' experiment has been repeatedly proven an absolute and complete failure with no possibility of redemption, its reliance on a frankly idiotic ideology is a failure to appreciate how humans function:
If there's no possibility of failure, there's no purpose in success.
It's taken a few short years to breed a generation that has been promised, (lied to), by the left that voting 'Socialist' wil mean they'll always be rescued and cannot fail.
And now we're feeling the effects of that.
Continue in the ways of the most recent disastrous 'Socialist' years and things can only worsen.
For a system with very little socialism look to America. Is that really the model you think we should follow?
andrewsmith
24-03-11, 08:08 AM
I guess that means the government should bin the NHS as I'm sure they employ a fair few people too.
Stability of the necessities such power /utilites and the banking system surely should be considered.
there's 1 million of the workforce
If were talking nationalisation etc... here is food for thought:
UK Govt. (aka the taxpayer) owns one bank (Northern Rock) over 80% of one of the worlds largest and 43% of Britains largest and scatter shares in others.
The best thing I saw on the cuts was on question time a few months ago. Tory bemoth (can't think of his name) was asked the following:
Q- What about all the shares in the banks
A- Yes
Q- There worth a lot of money, about what the govt. has had to put into the economy and the banks etc..
A- Yes
Q's response- Problem solved sell the shares, cuts over!
For a system with very little socialism look to America. Is that really the model you think we should follow?
Thats the thing which we do have be careful of- it the worst model in the world; health care unaffordable, medication even more unaffordable, no employee rights, no pensions in a lot of places, no such thing as materinty or paterinty leave
I'll leave the list here as it could become a major rant
Sid Squid
24-03-11, 08:08 AM
For a system with very little socialism look to America. Is that really the model you think we should follow?
How could you possibly consider that the only alternative to the mess we're in is the way the Yanks do it? They had the worlds strongest economy and have made an utter hash of it - are you really suggesting that that is what I'd like us to follow?
I'm speechless! Can you really see no further than repeating the mistakes already made and expecting a different outcome?
Queen Maggie ? ffs, you having a larf :smt097
..and fecked the country up big time.
Who was it that encouraged everyone to buy their own house then pull away the mortgage relief when they had. Sell the council houses to tenants for feck all and encourage private investors to build social housing - that worked didn't it, private investment bought all the cheap stock so they could charge what they like renting 'em back to councils.
no im not having a larf, i of course dont want her to become queen, but i do believe she did an amazing job in getting this country back up off it's 'arris by making tough decisions, not taking bull from any of her advisors and spin doctors and did it how she felt fit. im not going to be narrow minded enough to say she did no wrong, she did lots wrong, but it makes me laugh all the Maggie haters who just cant see the good she did.
Ridiculous.
You wasn't joking at all. Your language shows that.
Im still with Keith, the country was in tatters, and to recover from it, a small percentage of the population had to suffer. Coal is a dying industry, as was many more of our companies.
Maggie binned them, got us out of debt. Sure some hard changes had to be made, but we had to suffer a few setbacks for the greater good of the countrys financial economy. Sure people got shafted left right and centre, I remember the whole mortgage interest rises.
But the country flourished for a while, until it was put back into massive debt again.
Its swings and roundabouts, the same things happening again. Labour put us in debt, conserv got us out of debt, to do so they had to p1ss people off, but it worked. Then labour back in, more debt, and here we are 20 years later, conserv having to p1ss people off by rising prices to clear labours debts.
In a few years time, poeple will have had enough, get labour back in, who will then plune us back into debt with vast spending, and wars that don't involve us.
SoulKiss
24-03-11, 10:01 AM
Maybe the answer is to increase military spending and actually get good at being the World Policemen that successive governments seem to want to play at being.
Might work, engineering/manufacturing jobs designing and building new tools for the new role, plenty of jobs in the Military for those that cant get a Civvy job.
Add National Service to the mix - a "try before you buy" as it were for both school leavers and the Forces - the school leavers can then go onto Uni/Civvy jobs if they dont like "being in", and the Forces can try and retain anyone that enters the system that they really would like to keep.
Seems to be that all this country is placed to do is be a "Service Provider" so, lets make being Hired Muscle our "service".
buget calculator here, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/business/budget_calc/html/budget_calculator.stm
That's a very basic calculator and built on nothing but assumptions. It's useless.
buget calculator here, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/business/budget_calc/html/budget_calculator.stm
budget calculator based on the budget from 2007?
http://www.oilandgasuk.co.uk/news/news.cfm/newsid/588
Production tax for oil companies in the North Sea has risen from 20% to 32%.
After that tax they then still have to pay corporate/corporation tax on their profits, the only sector in the UK that hasn't had their corporate tax lowered in this current budget.
Revenues made by the government from Oil & Gas Companies: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/corporate_tax/table11_11.pdf
Do you really think that 1p off you're price at the pump is going to last?
The 12% increase needs to be covered, and I can't see the price at the pumps going unaffected.
How could you possibly consider that the only alternative to the mess we're in is the way the Yanks do it? They had the worlds strongest economy and have made an utter hash of it - are you really suggesting that that is what I'd like us to follow?
Actually I was commenting on your point, which was that we have to much socialism in this country and that less would be better. Less socialism would mean more right wing than we are now. the only governmental system in the world that has continued to return right wing governments is America as both main parties are right wing. The American system is great while your working and fairly healthy, but you fall out of those groups as many of us often do there system for managing that is extremely poor.
I'm speechless! Can you really see no further than repeating the mistakes already made and expecting a different outcome?
You are quick to judge but you offer no alternatives yourself. You cannot please all of the people all of time as the saying goes and this is never truer in politics. I never suggested our system is perfect but it will evolve only as fast as the people it governs.
You wasn't joking at all. Your language shows that.
Im still with Keith, the country was in tatters, and to recover from it, a small percentage of the population had to suffer. Coal is a dying industry, as was many more of our companies.
Maggie binned them, got us out of debt. Sure some hard changes had to be made, but we had to suffer a few setbacks for the greater good of the countrys financial economy. Sure people got shafted left right and centre, I remember the whole mortgage interest rises.
But the country flourished for a while, until it was put back into massive debt again.
Its swings and roundabouts, the same things happening again. Labour put us in debt, conserv got us out of debt, to do so they had to p1ss people off, but it worked. Then labour back in, more debt, and here we are 20 years later, conserv having to p1ss people off by rising prices to clear labours debts.
In a few years time, poeple will have had enough, get labour back in, who will then plune us back into debt with vast spending, and wars that don't involve us.
I dont mean to be derogitory but this is an extremely simplistic view and apologies if you meant it that way. Succesive labour and conservative governments during the fifties and sixties up to 1974 had failed to grasp the nettle of a failing manufacturing base due to cheaper manufacturing abroad. We didnt invest in R&D and we therefore were on a downward spiral for many years before 74' the Labour government at the time were just in charge when the **** finaly hit the fan but they were inaffectualy due to a minority governemt adn being ruled by the unions.
Maggie did recognise this and clevely saw that the market was shifting to services and banking from the west and and to attract these businesses actaully didnt cost very much you just need the right tax and loopholes to make them come. She got it wrong though on the timing and went to fast and to soon with dessimating the industries she saw as drains (sound familar!) THe country was in serious recession in 1981/2 while the rest of the world has recovered from teh 70's well before us. The only reason maggie got back in was becuase of the Falklands and the fact that Labour were still living in the past and ruled by unions (michael foot anyone !).
The late eighties were good times but it was a false economy. yes the countries books were good but hospitals, schools and all the other services we rely on where seeing little investment. As I said in a previous post Maggie was banking on a saving culture which invested in private care and education. but this didnt happen. This was compounded by the fact that the very companies they had sold for a song to give tax cuts to get elected, now made lots of money but were generally foreign owned and profits were being spirited away abroad, not here.
When Labour came in 97' they promisd to much and delivered to quickly. The only way they coudl deliver on this was by building on the financial loopholes (already set up by Maggie by the way) to increase what they saw as the great deliverer i.e. the City. They beleived the hype trotted out to them and bought into the culture of this will last for ever, leading them to beleive that debt now doesnt matter as we can pay it back. As we all know now it was total buckum bythe banks built on lies.
In many ways both the Labour Government and the Conservatives took a long term gamble and in some ways its payed off and in some ways its back fired spectacularly. Imagine a Labour government in the eighties still hamstrung by unions fills me with dread but conversly a conservative governmetn going beyond 97' with the state they were in also makes me wonder what would have happended to the NHS among other services.
another 2 pennies from me, which would have been from fuel if the prices had actually gone down.
Sid Squid
25-03-11, 12:16 AM
Less socialism would mean more right wing than we are now.
Utterly wrong. We may have some social conciences built into our manner of government and our societal structure, but the very last thing we need is more 'Socialism' - note that differs from socialism, which may, note may - it's a veeeeeerrrrrrry long way from certain, may have some limited benefit.
However you show me a socialist/'Socialist' and I'll show you one of two possibilities - naif or charaltan. Neither have much to recommend them. Whether socialism or 'Socialism' it is the manner of repression and control - it is manifestly NOT the party of the common man/woman. If you're content with what the state will allow you to have, and how the state controls you to augment its own position you then you may find some succour in 'Socialism'/socialism. I won't.
You are quick to judge but you offer no alternatives yourself.
Err.. Did I not write a lengthy post with an admittedly broad but deliberately simplified suggestion contained within it?
A brief recap:
Our only realistic future lies in an enormously simplfied and slimmed down mechanism of state. Ideally the government would have no part to play in out economic planning either, but as long as we have governmentally influenced banking the state will continue to adversely affect the economy. I fully realise that the resolution to that is a long way off, but as long as the decisions are in the hands of authoritarian statists - AKA socialists - sensible economic circumstances are impossible.
Don't take this as rude - that's really not my intention, but perhaps you didn't fully appreciate what I have previously written?
It is impossible to be fully honest when discussing such matters without ruffling feathers, if anyone thinks I'm simply being offensive they much mistake my intentions. This is in no way an apology for any offence anyone may take.
I appreciate what you are saying said on the argument front as it is difficult to argue through a series or written publications to a forum. But it aint half fun though :)
My point about socialism is this. without any tenant of it at all, it is my belief that society as a whole becomes poorer. The NHS is a socialist concept and I woudlnt change it. I think there are better ways of doing it (Take a look at New Zealands system that seems to work well).
The control you speak of from government down can happen within any governmental system without checks and balances be that socialist, capitalist, communist, facist .... whatever, same **** different masters.
I am interested in how this slimmed down government of yours would actually do? and how it would work.
anyway this is off topic albeit interesting.
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