North Wales welcomes 'safe' bikers

[metalangel]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-13170408


Insp Hughes spelled out a warning: "If you come here with the intention to ride selfishly, because there is like in any population, a selfish minority who ride with no regard for the safety of themselves or other road users, then we will be looking for those offences, detecting them and taking them to court."

The legacy of Brunstrom slowly eroding?

[toxic]

Trying to boost the tourism that declined due to bikers buying bacon butties and ice cream elsewhere no doubt.

[metalangel]

Perhaps, but the implication that you're to be interrupted mid-salmonella roll by 'is this YOUR motor vehicle, sir?' as per the article doesn't really encourage you.

[keith_d]

I liked the bit, "and you drive sensibly and your bike is fully lawful..."

Of course, the only way to be sure a bike is "fully lawful" is to stop it and inspect it. So, it could be business as usual for Jones the Police & Jones the Magistrate.

[Drumming_Animal]

If anything, that puts me off going there. Apparantly if I stop for a drink/toilet break/quick bite to eat/to clean the visor then I'm going to get lectured about road safety because I'm wearing leathers and am on 2 wheels. Probably even more so because I'm young and am judged to know nothing. Sure I admit I don't know everything, but I'm still experienced and have a fair amount of knowledge about things and can still control a bike pretty damn well, not just throwing it round corners but slow riding and a few manners of practical road riding.

However I do appreciate their concern for bikers, but there are some of us who are sensible. The 75 who were kiled or injured last year were probably turnips riding like pillocks, either that or a car driver got them and they were just added to a statistic.

They say they will leave bikers along their business if their riding and bike are within the law. I wonder how many H-D riders will get pulled for straight through pipes that are clearly over the legal noise limit compared to those of us on bikes that handle and move a bit better for wearing knee sliders.

Sorry if it comes over at bashing the police. It's not what I'm doing at all. I'm just voicing the fact that it seems to come down to bikers being judged because of a few small t**ts.

[Lozzo]

Magistrates in N Wales are worse than the police. A friend of mine called Steve Parry had a brother, I say had because he got killed by a taxi driver who pulled out in front of him and his BMW bike. The taxi driver was prosecuted, but not banned, merely fined. She was driving her taxi the next day.

A little while later, Steve was riding with his girlfriend on the back of his own BMW, they rounded a bend at below the posted speed limit and immediately found a queue of traffic waiting to enter the local tidy-tip. Steve braked, swerved and clipped the back of a car sending him and girlfriend off the bike. His girlfriend suffered a broken leg. Steve was prosecuted, when he is one of the most careful riders I know. His fine was bigger than the woman who killed his brother, and he got banned.

Justice, my ar5e

[xXBADGERXx]

Just ignore it and go about your usual business , lived through most of the Brunstrom years on a bike up here and had no worries . Ironically got my points when he had retired though

[Luckypants]

Be happy for them to catch and prosecute the riders like the one on the copper pointy at Maentwrog yesterday. Overtake at junction, on solid whites, causing on coming cyclist to swerve to avoid head on.

/rant

+1 to what badger said. I'm off out to abuse my rear tyre now on Wales' finest roads. :D

[MR UKI (1)]

Been Wales loads of time even a lot of time on the main routes that I know LP would avoid on many organised ride-outs and had no problems. I don't believe it was as bad as was made out during the Brunstrom years (unless you were a tool and asked for it anyway) and it's probably the same now. Go and enjoy it or go choose to go elsewhere innit ;)

[christopher]

Wales is rubbish. You're not missing much :mrgreen:

I've just come back from doing 250 miles around places I can't pronounce (Ruthin/Denbigh/Betws-y-Coed/Llanberis/Beddgelert/Penrhyndeudraeth/Bala/Llangollen) in fantastic weather with great scenery on all sorts of roads and I saw 3 seperate police cars!

And all the roads out of the towns were empty so you needn't filter, just overtake the odd car/caravan. How boring?!

It also ruins the edges of your tyres riding there, far too many corners. If only Wales was flat so they could build straight roads instead of them meandering through the landscape.

And worse still it's full of people speaking a weird language with the odd English word thrown in just to confuse you.

(2 years riding rather briskly throughout North/Mid Wales and, so far, never stopped once by the Police for any reason... I feel left out missing out on these safety chats)

[Bibio]

what if you stop for a break and an officer starts to give you the 'spiel' can you say 'no thanks' and walk off or tell him to mind his own business?

or if you are driving within speed limit and are 'lawful' and they decide to pull you over for a 'routine check' can you tell them to burger off and mind there own business or just keep riding as you are not breaking any law?

[Bluefish]

Yeah you can, but if they turn those blue flashy light on it means they want to party ;)

[Milky Bar Kid]

what if you stop for a break and an officer starts to give you the 'spiel' can you say 'no thanks' and walk off or tell him to mind his own business?

or if you are driving within speed limit and are 'lawful' and they decide to pull you over for a 'routine check' can you tell them to burger off and mind there own business or just keep riding as you are not breaking any law?

With regards to your second question, no you can't. And why would you if everything was "lawful" anyway because you would be away in less than five minutes!!! Constables in uniform are entitled to stop and examine any vehicle (*with authority of the chief constable, which I know we all have) and driver documentation on a road at any time.

[xXBADGERXx]

It`s no more likely to happen here than it is anywhere else in the UK , scaremongering tactics that only seem to worry people who don`t live around here so it appears to be doing it`s job . Doesn`t affect the locals as we know what goes on , some unfortunates still come here and die or some plonkers cause mayhem then ride off back home and the likes of you lot worrying there at the back .... stay away for fear of a nick or a safety chat . Tourism misses out a little but you miss out on some great roads . And if you are squeeky clean with nothing to worry about on the bike then come and enjoy it .

You can`t let something like this , and a bit of misinformation , keep you away . My experience of Scottish people came from when I managed a pub and had to throw people out at 11:30 at night , from that experience I felt like every Scottish person was a drunkard with a bad attitude , bit like the Welsh and English I also had to throw out ... but the point I am getting at is that the small quota of Scottish people I had dealt with were hassle . It doesn`t make the whole country a place to avoid . At the GMII I never met a nicer bunch of people , I was in Edinburgh last weekend and had a total blast , and I drove down the A7 to Galashiels to pick up a guitar and thought "damn , gotta come here again on a bike soon" . Anyhoo , don`t let a bit of scaremongering and propaganda keep you away . Forgot what I was rambling about anyway

[Bibio]

With regards to your second question, no you can't. And why would you

as i'm going about my business and committing no crime. its 5 minuets of MY time they are wasting. i have to pull over at a suitable spot, i have to turn my bike off, i have to take my helmet off and answer their questions.

as to the fist question, so i can tell them i'm 'not interested in what they have to say'?

[Luckypants]

I've just come back from doing 250 miles around places I can't pronounce (Ruthin/Denbigh/Betws-y-Coed/Llanberis/Beddgelert/Penrhyndeudraeth/Bala/Llangollen) I think I saw you mate, at least I remember thinking 'Was that Chris' as we flashed past each other in opposite directions :mrgreen: Don't remember where though!

[Nobbylad]

Ha...I remember being stopped at a Police roadblock whilst on my BikeSafe course. We were with 2 x coppers on their Police bikes in full uniform and the Heddlu stopped us all and made us wait whilst they processed the 20 or so other bikes they'd stopped, before waving us on.

The Merseyside bobbies we were with were absolutely livid!

[-Ralph-]

No mention of the helicopter. Like others here I've never had a problem in Wales, but then I do tend to go up there baffled and with a legal plate, and not riding like a looney (ie: 50% or more over the speed limit). That helicopter always does worry me when I see it in the sky though. I think the "law abiding motorcyclist" is a very rare thing. How many riders do you know who go for a day out and never exceed 60mph? I'm happy to be a "safe" motorcyclist, especially if it means the police will leave me alone, but what I don't want is to be zapped by a bloody helicopter whilst doing 75 in a 60 limit.

Personally I don't have a problem with a copper coming for a chat at stops, and I think the article does intimate that it's a safety chat, not a "is this your vehicle with the small numberplate sir?"

I also think by a "fully legal" bike, they didn't mean they would still stop every bike to check, but that the bike is baffled, has an acceptable number plate, the bulbs work, it doesn't look like YC's bike, and it passes an APNR check.

[Bluepete]

Because I can't be bothered Googling, can anyone tell me about the helicopter being used for speed enforcement?

Knowing the cost of them, and how hard it can be getting the thing in the air, I'm surprised it was used for this. I know those lads were filmed and potted on the dual carriageway, but I think the parrafin pidgeon was out on another job and saw them anyway. Plus, riding like that deserves whatever they got.

Does anon know someone prosecuted for speeding as a result on the helicopter?

Not looking for an argument, just interested in first hand accounts.

Pete ;)

[metalangel]

Meanwhile, a serious crash involving two bikes and an SUV on the A470 up north...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-13180828

Hope they're both okay.

[xXBADGERXx]

Because I can't be bothered Googling, can anyone tell me about the helicopter being used for speed enforcement?


Yes it has often been sent up on Sunday mornings to hover over prime biking spots , one of their favourite things is to fly at an angle that you don`t really look at (usually behind one of your ears) . They then time you over known stretches of road , footage I have seen is they start at a White block painted on the road and time you to the next one , Enforcements have happened ..... and the footage I have seen in the past has been of real pillocks going at it .

Admittedly I have not heard it about as much recently but it was very prolific 2 years ago

[Bluepete]

Yes it has often been sent up on Sunday mornings to hover over prime biking spots , one of their favourite things is to fly at an angle that you don`t really look at (usually behind one of your ears) . They then time you over known stretches of road , footage I have seen is they start at a White block painted on the road and time you to the next one , Enforcements have happened ..... and the footage I have seen in the past has been of real pillocks going at it .

Admittedly I have not heard it about as much recently but it was very prolific 2 years ago


I know how it's done, they use a VASCAR unit over a measured distance, same as my traffic car.

What I want to know is, does anyone know someone, or can anyone point me to a reliable source showing how many people have been prosecuted for exceeding the speed limit using the helicopter as the corroberation for the observers opinion that the bike was speeding?

Pete ;)

[-Ralph-]

I have seen it getting cars over the A55, more than I've seen it getting bikes TBH. Then it tends to hover in one place.

I heard (don't mean it's true, though actually I think it was one of the emergency services pilots from another part of the UK that told me this, though it could just as easily been a man in the pub, I can't remember!) that they pay for the helicopter for a certain amount of hours per month. If they haven't used the quota towards the end of the month they send it up on speed enforcement.

Still pi$$es me off that tax payers money is used for this purpose, they should buy a smaller quota, then PAYG on a higher rate as and when they need it if they run out of hours.

Then it pi$$es me off that they spend taxpayers money on a scamera van and a man to stand inside it to catch speeders, when they could spend it on a police officer and a vehicle, that would be 10 times more effective in catching every type of offence

"They" are to blame for everything you see ;-)

[-Ralph-]

What I want to know is, does anyone know someone, or can anyone point me to a reliable source showing how many people have been prosecuted for exceeding the speed limit using the helicopter as the corroberation for the observers opinion that the bike was speeding?

I know you said you can't be bothered to google it, but I think nobody is going to have an answer. It's either going to be silence, or a lmgtfy link ;-)

[The Idle Biker]

Yes it has often been sent up on Sunday mornings to hover over prime biking spots , one of their favourite things is to fly at an angle that you don`t really look at (usually behind one of your ears) . They then time you over known stretches of road , footage I have seen is they start at a White block painted on the road and time you to the next one , Enforcements have happened ..... and the footage I have seen in the past has been of real pillocks going at it .

Admittedly I have not heard it about as much recently but it was very prolific 2 years ago

I've never ever considered the liklihood of being caught speeding by a Helicopter. I thought speed traps, do gooders with speed cameras, and average mph cameras was enough. Now they've got helicopters?
**** me give us a all break, why don't "they" just fit tachometers in the Bikes and have done with it? Electronically upload it automatically complete with biological data, blood/ alcohol count, retina scan, fingerprints and sperm count. It's all too much, in the wrong area.

I need a cup of tea!

[MR UKI (1)]

Cheshire Police send their plane up the Cat N Fiddle, see it circling over Macc quite regularly before heading up there. Don't know of anyone who has been done by it though.

[metalangel]

http://www.flightglobal.com/assets/getAsset.aspx?ItemID=37691

Launching Hellfires!

[punyXpress]

What I want to know is, does anyone know someone, or can anyone point me to a reliable source showing how many people have been prosecuted for exceeding the speed limit using the helicopter as the corroberation for the observers opinion that the bike was speeding?

Pete ;)
Yes, I do!
Returning from 1973 Austrian GP, the 'other' truck was stopped by a helicopter on the autobahn.
It hovered in front of them & charged a hefty fine.
Best bit was, the lads circled the biggest number on the document, converted it from deutschmarks into real @ Sterling @ money and claimed it on expenses, making a thumping profit.

Oh, regarding Brunstrom:
" Former North Wales Police chief Richard Brunstrom fined for having out-of-date car tax disc "
In New Zealand, bought a car & thought the tax disc date was when it started!
Just like here?

[yorkie_chris]

I was going up and down to see Maria in Aberystwyth lots through all the Brunstrom years and never had a problem, think it was all a load of balls and more likely a problem if you were going powerrangering on the popular roads.

[Matt-EUC]

Holy necro-post batman!

[madcockney]

The last I heard the present North Wales Chief Constable was still riding his sport bike for pleasure. I have never had a problem with riding in North Wales and the police, and I know, certainly after Brunstrom's time, for sometime that they welcome safe bikers and want them to enjoy the roads and scenery. Every time I have seen the chopper, and it is very active, it is after criminals and not bikers, unless they are on a stolen bike that is.

[littleoldman2]

:DSo It's safe to have AR15 in North Wales ?:D

[punyXpress]

. . only if you behave yourself ;)

[EssexDave]

With regards to your second question, no you can't. And why would you if everything was "lawful" anyway because you would be away in less than five minutes!!! Constables in uniform are entitled to stop and examine any vehicle (*with authority of the chief constable, which I know we all have) and driver documentation on a road at any time.

Interesting.

I'm not sure whether the Scottish law is different to the English, but here, an Officer in Uniform (or one not in Uniform upon presenting their warrant card) can stop and question any person. You legally do not have to answer their questions.

If they want to stop and search you, they have to have reasonable grounds to suspect you're carrying drugs, a weapon, stolen property, equipment to carry out crimes, be a terrorist or have just been involved in a crime.

(Although you can be stopped and searched in certain areas - e.g. around the olympics they introduced widespread stop and search legally).

Quite a few cases have gone to the European Court of Human Rights and the UK has been ordered to pay compensation for illegal stop and searches, and quite often these people are from ethnic minorities (black people in London are 7 times more likely to be searched)

It's a shame not more people know the real law, and I all too often find the police local to me don't know what they're allowed to do - luckily they're mostly decent people!

[Red Herring]

It's a shame not more people know the real law.....

Oh I don't know, it provides some interesting moments......

MBK specifically referred to the stopping of a vehicle, and for that a constable does have to be in uniform, and there is a requirement that you answer their questions with regard to your identity and documentation (producing a document when required is construed as an answer).

There are a few minefields around stopping a specific group of motorists for "routine" checks. If I had been told to wait at the back of a 20 bike queue so that someone could eventually speak to me I would have been asking on what grounds they were doing so. Stopping is one thing, detaining is another subject all together.