View Full Version : Time to hoist the saltire
Well done Scotland, you kicked out the Labour lot, the SNP victory is fantastic. I really mean that. The day that Scotland regains its independence must surely be so much closer. I'm all for it. Hopefully, with Her Majesty as head of state, much like Canada Oz and NZ, and within the European Union.
It really is a terrific day for Scotland:D
yey. wont change nowt though.
The Guru
06-05-11, 05:55 PM
... Hopefully, with Her Majesty as head of state, much like Canada Oz and NZ, and OUT of the European Union...
Edited for you. ;)
It's a massive result for the SNP when you consider the voting system was designed to stop this happening.
There's still a long way to go before a lot of those SNP voters will be convinced to vote for independence.
Milky Bar Kid
06-05-11, 06:15 PM
It's not a terrific day for Scotland. I completely disagree. Just as I disagree with an independence we couldn't possibly sustain.
I hope I am proved wrong.
Just as I disagree with an independence we couldn't possibly sustain.
how do you work that one out :confused:
andrewsmith
06-05-11, 06:33 PM
Well done Scotland, you kicked out the Labour lot, the SNP victory is fantastic. I really mean that. The day that Scotland regains its independence must surely be so much closer. I'm all for it. Hopefully, with Her Majesty as head of state, much like Canada Oz and NZ, and within the European Union.
It really is a terrific day for Scotland:D
I agree with that!
If they do gain the Great SNP "I" word, i'll be heading North very quickly
Milky Bar Kid
06-05-11, 06:39 PM
If you can prove me wrong then feel free however, I don't see how we could sustain our own economy when we don't have much of our own industry. Sure, we have the North Sea Oil but there is not a chance in hell that Westminster is going to roll over and allow us to take that in its entirety, they are going to be wanting a share in that.
Plus we would end up on the Euro, and look at Southern Ireland and the disaster there!
We also have some of the highest rates of alcoholism, heart disease etc etc in Europe, and unless we are going to suddenly magic a whole lot of money from somewhere, how are we supposed to cope with that without the assistance of Westminster?
And do we really want to have the issue of having to show our passports everytime we go to Carlisle?
Like I say, if you can prove me wrong then I am willing to listen to the otherside of the coin, I just personally can't see how we can sustain an independence. And I am not sure I want us to have to fail before we find that out....(PS - I am Scottish, and I am patriotic but I just don't agree with independence.)
I'm all for self determination. The people should decide, and if Alex thinks the people want it then I hope he has the #### to ask them.
I would hate for the Union to break up but that's just my selfish opinion.
If you get full independence does that you'll have to pay for your university education yourselves or will I still have too ? :)
Milky Bar Kid
06-05-11, 06:55 PM
If you get full independence does that you'll have to pay for your university education yourselves or will I still have too ? :)
Yeh cause we don't pay taxes in Scotland do we?[-X[-X
Yeh cause we don't pay taxes in Scotland do we?[-X[-X
Its a fair point though and I'm not having a go at the Scots either btw
JamesMio
06-05-11, 07:01 PM
Yeh cause we don't pay taxes in Scotland do we?[-X[-X
Most of the idle, chavvy, doss C-units around this area don't seem to...
Milky Bar Kid
06-05-11, 07:02 PM
Most of the idle, chavvy, doss C-units around this area don't seem to...
We've had this discussion before James, you need to start getting off your backside and get a job...:smt082
JamesMio
06-05-11, 07:03 PM
We've had this discussion before James, you need to start getting off your backside and get a job...:smt082
Faaaaaaaaaaaaar Q! :D
The Guru
06-05-11, 07:12 PM
Plus we would end up on the Euro...
How so?
And do we really want to have the issue of having to show our passports everytime we go to Carlisle?
You dont have to 'show' your passport to cross borders within Europe so how would this work?
The Guru
06-05-11, 07:21 PM
There would be lots of things to consider and discuss if it was to happen.
What would happen..
To your UK driving licence.
Your UK passport.
Use of English currency.
To the NHS.
To Armed Forces work.
The list is endless.
None of these things could change over night.
Also we couldn't just bail out of the UK saying "its your debt, keep it" we would need to 'inherit' some of the UK national debt. Probably based on population.
These things may or may not be overcome, but at least we now have the chance to have a serious discussion about it.
If you get full independence does that you'll have to pay for your university education yourselves or will I still have too ? :) Its a fair point though and I'm not having a go at the Scots either btw
Appreciate the smiley Stewie, and I know you're not having a go, but this just ain't true.
The assumption seems to be that we take everything England gets and then we add some "treats" on top. Scotland receives its budget and chooses how to spend it. If you want free higher education then vote for someone that delivers it - that's what we've done. But how do you feel about a big reduction in Police spending? Less access to cancer drugs maybe? Just different choices being made 'tis all.
If you're interested, Scottish Expenditure & Revenue for 2008/9 (the latest available) showed a budget surplus of £1.3billion. That includes our share of the bank bailouts and a geographical share of oil revenues. During the same year the UK as a whole was in deficit to the tune of £48.9billion.
Take a look at revenue and expenditure for the North West of England and you'll be pleased to see that you're subsidising nobody. :p
The Basket
06-05-11, 09:36 PM
Is Ed taking the urine?
Appreciate the smiley Stewie, and I know you're not having a go, but this just ain't true.
The assumption seems to be that we take everything England gets and then we add some "treats" on top. Scotland receives its budget and chooses how to spend it. If you want free higher education then vote for someone that delivers it - that's what we've done. But how do you feel about a big reduction in Police spending? Less access to cancer drugs maybe? Just different choices being made 'tis all.
If you're interested, Scottish Expenditure & Revenue for 2008/9 (the latest available) showed a budget surplus of £1.3billion. That includes our share of the bank bailouts and a geographical share of oil revenues. During the same year the UK as a whole was in deficit to the tune of £48.9billion.
Take a look at revenue and expenditure for the North West of England and you'll be pleased to see that you're subsidising nobody. :p
I'm not having a go at the Scots, my dad's a Scot, I've spent plenty of time in Scotland to know the score, if Scotland can afford to pay for all your kids uni education then thats fine its just a shame we cant seem to do it down here no matter who we vote for, still you've got plenty to be proud of north of the border, Jimmie krankie, buckfast and the deep fat fryer ;)
If you can prove me wrong then feel free however, I don't see how we could sustain our own economy when we don't have much of our own industry.
The heavy industry is gone but there's still plenty going on. I make a living out of customers who are making stuff. Difficult stuff you wouldn't trust the Chinese to produce. Loads going on in energy and life sciences.
We're a country with an educated, English-speaking workforce. Perfectly placed to trade with Europe and noticably more pro-European than our close neighbours. We've got strong links with the US/Canada. We have access to some of the best natural resources in Europe. Oil won't last for ever but if the future's in wind, waves and fresh water we've got more than we need. We're already a net exporter of electricity.
What makes the Scots so uniquely retarded that we could mess that up?
Sure, we have the North Sea Oil but there is not a chance in hell that Westminster is going to roll over and allow us to take that in its entirety, they are going to be wanting a share in that.
It's not a case of England "allowing" us anything. What we have amassed together we need to share, including all the debt. We've done some great things together and we've made some mistakes. But we did it in a Union so we continue to share the results - good or bad.
I would never suggest Scotland takes all the oil revenue. Per capita share of revenues from currently exploited fields would be fair. To suggest anything else would put Englands economy in serious trouble and what kind of friend would that make us?
Plus we would end up on the Euro
Only if we chose to be. I don't have a problem with it in principle, but it's a different debate.
and look at Southern Ireland and the disaster there!
Poor old Ireland with their much better standard of living than ours? I don't expect to see them marching through Dublin demanding to be let back into the Union anytime soon.
We also have some of the highest rates of alcoholism, heart disease etc etc in Europe, and unless we are going to suddenly magic a whole lot of money from somewhere, how are we supposed to cope with that without the assistance of Westminster?
Hey, no need to get personal :p. I'd rather deal with my problems than hold my hand out for charity.
And do we really want to have the issue of having to show our passports everytime we go to Carlisle?
No need for passport control there. Go and drive through a few countries in Western Europe and see how often you need your passport.
Sorry to run through your post like that MBK - I hope it doesn't come across as an assault on you. Definitely not how it's intended. :smt058
I think independence would force us to face up to our own responsibility. The folk who like to blame the English for everything can then get the bloody chip off their shoulder.
I'm not having a go at the Scots, my dad's a Scot, I've spent plenty of time in Scotland to know the score, if Scotland can afford to pay for all your kids uni education then thats fine its just a shame we cant seem to do it down here no matter who we vote for, still you've got plenty to be proud of north of the border, Jimmie krankie, buckfast and the deep fat fryer ;)
I know you weren't having a go mate. But the point you made is believed by many.
Incidentally, my grandad was a Geordie (couldn't stand the Scots or the rest of the English). In fact, for a rabid nationalist, my background is not terribly Scottish.
Buckfast isn't Scottish but we've taken it to our hearts. Always remember to pass it to the left at dinner parties. :D
I know you weren't having a go mate. But the point you made is believed by many.
Incidentally, my grandad was a Geordie (couldn't stand the Scots or the rest of the English). In fact, for a rabid nationalist, my background is not terribly Scottish.
Buckfast isn't Scottish but we've taken it to our hearts. Always remember to pass it to the left at dinner parties. :D
You'd have gone on well with my gran, fecking hated the English, but went to England every year for her hols :D
Is Ed taking the urine?
No I'm not. Like Bri, I believe in self-determination. The Act of Union has served well for 300 years but that does not mean to say that it's set in stone. It has its roots in appalling repression, but since then I do think it has worked. But that doesn't mean to say that it should be there forever. If Scots want independence, then that's fine by me.
I don't know if independence would be a good thing for us or not. I do know that I'd rather be asked about it than told I don't have a choice.
garynortheast
06-05-11, 10:55 PM
Well said Ed and Tam.
I wish Wales would show some of the self belief and self confidence currently being exhibited by the Scots. Fancy letting New Labour back in. Still at least the Tories and the LibDems took a hammering.
Great result!
I like Alex Salmond, he seems a genuine guy and has some fu(king go about him.
Unlike Iain Gray, who seems like an spineless, ballockless, excuse of a man.
Had a look at SNP's policies/promises, quite happy, SNP promise to freeze council tax for 5 years too! Result.
If anyone says that Scotland couldn't support itself, just google production tax(now 32%)/tax revenue north sea oil & gas/etc/etc
London is ripping the ar$e out of the oil companies producing in the north sea, the money they make is unreal.
Also, 'The 2011 Budget announced that the Supplementary Charge on UK oil and gas production would increase from 20 to 32 per cent whilst the cost of fuel duty would be decreased by 1p per litre.' 12% increase over the space of one budget? Completely taking the pi$$.
very good result for salmond and the snp, congrats to them. scotland could do fine. what i think will happen from here is a continual devolution of powers to hollyrood until effectively scotland is independent.
scotland would have to be in the EU to get the benefits of being a small member country needing support. it doesn't need to take the euro though, poland is doing very nicely keeping the zloty.
there are a million and one issues that need sorted before scotland is fully independent e.g. splitting of the finances and the question of the armed forces...the scots make the best soldiers and not sure if the english could afford to lose them!
scotland has some world leading industry expertise, e.g. biotech, renewable energy and of course the oil explo expertise in aberdeen and elsewhere. there is the potential to do very well with these resources in a global market.
i don't think there would be any need for a passport between sco and eng though! a waste of money. although that may change if scotland joined the schenegen agreement and england still didn't want to.
The Basket
07-05-11, 06:56 AM
Just because we now have an SNP majority doesnt mean independence is a certainty.
Although a referendum is certainly on the cards.
Dicky Ticker
07-05-11, 07:25 AM
I don't know where I stand on full Independence.Pros and Cons for it but a awful lot of thinking would have to go into it.We may not have the car plants or heavy industry,but still have the expertise and skills we used to have. We can be self sufficient in fuel,fossil,hydro,and mineral.The revenue from two assets,whisky and oil and enough fertile land to produce most of our consumable needs.In addition our fishing industry is mainly export with a meat industry that exceeds most. World class higher education and universities to nurture skills
Tax incentives to encourage heavy engineering companies to return to places like the Clyde ,i.e. ship building,along with medium engineering and the likes of Silicone Valley etc. Deep water ports,oil refinery we already have, along with international airports which can accommodate more traffic all which would help the growing tourist trade,something that is often overlooked. It has a lot going for it but,
TILL YOU HAVE ALL THE FINANCIAL STATISTICS ON HAND IT WOULD BE UNFAIR TO MAKE A JUDGEMENT.
P.S. As we are an island incorporating England,Scotland and Wales providing you have immigration checks on entry by whichever sector I can not see free movement being a problem within the UK.---------------CARLISLE is different;)
The Basket
07-05-11, 09:14 AM
Ireland has a good economy?
I thought they were heavily in debt or something.
Dicky Ticker
07-05-11, 09:17 AM
Nah--England bailed them out and it is not even in the Union
instigator
07-05-11, 09:29 AM
I'm Scottish but living in London. I'm all for their independence so it will shut them up and then watch their economy crumble over the next 5 to 10 years. Shoot yourselves in the foot, see if I care. I don't plan to ever return up 'North'.
punyXpress
07-05-11, 09:35 AM
I'm Scottish but living in London. I'm all for their independence so it will shut them up and then watch their economy crumble over the next 5 to 10 years. Shoot yourselves in the foot, see if I care. I don't plan to ever return up 'North'.
Not doing the GM then ? ;)
I think it was a stunning victory for the SNP in a voting system that was designed to STOP this kind of majority win happening.
I'm not sure we're ready for Independence, there are too many people who havent bothered to educate themselves on the pros and cons of it, but I would certainly like a referendum on it.
I think Scotland could certainly "hold its own" in European and the Worldwide economies, I dont think it would "crumble."
Bluefish
07-05-11, 09:50 AM
Somebody gonna start rebuilding that wall then?;)
then watch their economy crumble over the next 5 to 10 years.
Why do you assume that would be the case?
JamesMio
07-05-11, 10:47 AM
Not doing the GM then ? ;)
:D:D
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