Legal Advice- required

[andrewsmith]

I'm needing the help of all you legal bods on here.

Whats happened, is that my employer has refused to pay the wages for the last working week. What has been stated by the said person is that: 'Bank holiday Friday, isn't technically a Bank holiday so I'm not required to pay BH rate'

The wages for the week aren't being paid as it stands so I'm skint until this is sorted.
The president was set within the business that all BH will be paid at the greater rate. ACAS are also aware of this now.


Now where do I stand with getting moneys for time worked?

[Bri w]

On the issue of BH pay. Its up to the employer what rate they pay, and if they 'ask' you to work it. Wife had to work, and got single rate, as she did for New Year's Day & Boxing Day.

The other question is what is a Bank Holiday? Its a generic name for a national holiday, which is what last Friday was. It might be splitting hairs but I'd say your boss has got it wrong.

Can't understand why he hasn't paid you at all though... or did you just work Friday?

Er, sorry but I'm just a layman... no doubt someone will be along shortly to correct me.

[aaron020873]

i don't know about the friday as this was a 1 off but if he wasn't providing work for you and told you that you were off then i would of thought it should be treated like a BH, otherwise you wouldn't be able to fulfill your contract through no fault of your own. As for the rest of the weeks pay, if he isn't paying you then i wouldn't be doing anymore work for him untill he does.... we could all work for nothing!!!!!
Bosses these days seem to be doing just as they please and using the current economic climate to their advantage..

[andrewsmith]

On the issue of BH pay. Its up to the employer what rate they pay, and if they 'ask' you to work it. Wife had to work, and got single rate, as she did for New Year's Day & Boxing Day.

The other question is what is a Bank Holiday? Its a generic name for a national holiday, which is what last Friday was. It might be splitting hairs but I'd say your boss has got it wrong.

Can't understand why he hasn't paid you at all though... or did you just work Friday?

Er, sorry but I'm just a layman... no doubt someone will be along shortly to correct me.

The term bank holiday is defined to cover all nationally recognized holidays (Royal wedding is also classed as this). I worked 6 days last week including the BH Monday and Sunday (our working week is Monday to Sunday) I worked the Friday and all the wages have been held, as the cheque to the bank hasn't been signed

[MisterTommyH]

The Friday wasn't a bank holiday. As such your employer is under no legal obligation to give you an additional days paid leave. (I know they aren't because my employer researched in but still decided to give us the day, and my cousin who has his own business was moaning that he didn't find out he didn't have to until it was too late to give his employees notice)

The rest of it depends if you are staff (PAYE) or contract (SE).

If you are staff then they should have made it clear early on that they were not going to be paying leave for the national holiday and given you the option to work (I don't think they can just shut the office and not pay you). Even if they make you redundant they are required to give you a notice period.

If you are contract then he's kind of got a point, although as a good employer he really should have told you in advance.

Still can't see why he's held back the whole week though unless you are contract and paid by invoice. In which case any discrepancies on the invoice will need to be sorted before it's paid.

[MisterTommyH]

Just reread that. If you worked and he didn't tell you that you shouldn't be working then he should pay you.

[rigor]

The Friday wasn't a bank holiday.

Yes it was, as it was a publicly announced holiday.

A worker whose contract entitles them to a certain number of days’ holiday plus bank and public holidays would be entitled to take the additional bank holiday on 29 April 2011 unless their contract refers to holiday being plus “the usual” statutory and bank holidays or plus the eight statutory and bank holidays.

How an employer handles it is down to what was written into the contract of employment. My contract states I am allowed 26 days holiday, PLUS Bank Holidays, hence I wasn't in work.

Is BH pay written into your contract, or is it something that the company "has always done". I would imagine if it is the first option then your emplyer doesn't have a leg to stand on... even in the second option they should pay you, unless they told you otherwise before hand, but it is a much messier situation...

...Also, as we're getting another extra BH next year (5th June, Queen's Diamond Jubilee) this needs to be sorted out...

[andrewsmith]

The Friday wasn't a bank holiday. As such your employer is under no legal obligation to give you an additional days paid leave. (I know they aren't because my employer researched in but still decided to give us the day, and my cousin who has his own business was moaning that he didn't find out he didn't have to until it was too late to give his employees notice)

The rest of it depends if you are staff (PAYE) or contract (SE).

If you are staff then they should have made it clear early on that they were not going to be paying leave for the national holiday and given you the option to work (I don't think they can just shut the office and not pay you). Even if they make you redundant they are required to give you a notice period.

If you are contract then he's kind of got a point, although as a good employer he really should have told you in advance.

Still can't see why he's held back the whole week though unless you are contract and paid by invoice. In which case any discrepancies on the invoice will need to be sorted before it's paid.

Were in a legal backhole tbh. No one has signed a contract, but the catch 22 is if were fired the owner loses easily £100k in takings

Tommy that is the technical point that the non payment is on! Were staff to the privately owned company. The president was set about 5+ years ago from what was been dug-up under a previous bar manager

The stop on the wages was with 2 hours notice 3pm today the decision was taken and a cheque is signed to the bank for the whole balance of the wages for the week.


as a side to a earlier post, I'm working to rule (I work 6.5 hours of a 7 hour shift and clocked out). The chefs have threatened to down knifes until paid and other staff are looking at their options)

[rigor]

No contract means it's very difficult, although if you can prove precedent that will go a long way. Stopping ALL the wages seems a bit steep though. Paying at the standard rate and arguing the toss later on would have been a better way of moving forward.

[andrewsmith]

No contract means it's very difficult, although if you can prove precedent that will go a long way. Stopping ALL the wages seems a bit steep though. Paying at the standard rate and arguing the toss later on would have been a better way of moving forward.

I know. The evidence is being printed tonight. The stop is due to the owner 'trying to' remove the Bank Holiday rate.

He's only got to 3 pm tomorrow to sign and get to the bank.

The ACAS dispute is over the BH rates. They have sided with us and the owner has been given a 14 ultimatum to put up or be served with employment tribunal

[MisterTommyH]

Not saying that non-payment is not on. Just that there are areas where that would be acceptable. In my industry people are often contract out of choice - they get a better rate, but none of the benefits or security like this. It's their choice.

In your case it sounds like you are an employee so that wouldn't be the case.

Not to put an even bigger downer on it, but is there any chance that they could have cash flow problems? If a boss has anything about him, he usually knows that employees are one of the most valuble resources he has, and will only resort to tactics like this if things get difficult?

[andrewsmith]

We actually know it has been poor for 2 weeks but that is due to the bank holidays.

But the 2 week take is still an good 5 figure number (for a bar/ club in Newcastle atm)

[fizzwheel]

I know. The evidence is being printed tonight. The stop is due to the owner 'trying to' remove the Bank Holiday rate.

There was some debate at our place whether the 29th would be classes as a Bank Holiday or not, eventually they decided it was and we could take the day off and it wouldnt come out of our holiday entitlement.

Why not suggest to the owner that he pays you for the days worked minus the bank holiday disputed amount. That way you at least get something and then sit down and discuss with him / acas how you resolve the Bank Holiday issue.

I cant see that its fair that his withholds a weeks pay based on 1 days worth of dispute.

I'm no legal expert, thats just what I would suggest if I found myself in that situation.

[andrewsmith]

It is the owners fault as was shouted at to sign the wages at lunchtime (wages are sorted out on a Tuesday) and the stop meant the banks were missed today and the correction is going to take tomorrow to do (thus missing the bank again).