Recommend Me: Block Paving Workers

[Owenski]

Im looking for recomendations for who you've used with resaonable prices, and also a report on how the driveway has held up over the last few years of weathering.

Obviously if bob from the pub did yours, then this is no use to me - im looking for national or local (to me) firms you may know of.

[454697819]

hire digger... buy sand.. hire wacker plate.. go mental... lay blocks..

DIY man...

(Sorry thats of no help at all)

[Teejayexc]

Ask Barwell who did his;



http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo16/barwell1992/IMAG0048.jpg


Shame about the thing in the middle spoiling it though ;-)

[Specialone]

Matt, don't let pikeys do it for a start :)

Only use 60mm blocks for driveways, the clay ones keep their colour longer but concrete are cheaper.

I don't know how much you know about drives etc, but put the effort in the prep and they won't sink, simple.

All the drives I see that sink where tyres of their cars sit are all from bad prep, a good six inch of heavily compacted MOT (roadstone) will last forever.

[dizzyblonde]

hire digger... buy sand.. hire wacker plate.. go mental... lay blocks..

DIY man...

(Sorry thats of no help at all)
Tiz what we did. You missed out the hardcore....very important :)

Either that or wait for pikey.com to knock on your door!

[Owenski]

hire digger... buy sand.. hire wacker plate.. go mental... lay blocks..

DIY man...

(Sorry thats of no help at all)

That it is the genuine alternative, best quote so far is 5k but that includes all the preparation/excavation etc of the ground which I intend to do myself to save to knock a few quid off.

[dizzyblonde]

That it is the genuine alternative, best quote so far is 5k but that includes all the preparation/excavation etc of the ground which I intend to do myself to save to knock a few quid off.

Get a mate to help you dig for a few beers! I was surprised how much you dig out to fill back up again, wouldn't want to be doing it on my own! :smt103

Wacker plate is fun :)

[Owenski]

Matt, don't let pikeys do it for a start :)

Only use 60mm blocks for driveways, the clay ones keep their colour longer but concrete are cheaper.

I don't know how much you know about drives etc, but put the effort in the prep and they won't sink, simple.

All the drives I see that sink where tyres of their cars sit are all from bad prep, a good six inch of heavily compacted MOT (roadstone) will last forever.


I gave a similar spec to the sales guy who came last night, 150mm Type-1 Sub base, 50mm Sharp Sand/Crushed Glass Agg with 60mm deep blocks laid with a concrete haunch on the perimeter blocks.
Drive is about 50m2 and the quote was 5k.

I've "aquired" some geotextile from excess stock on site which should do my drive about 2 times over so that'll be going down and I intend to be home the days they do it to watch over the spread and wacking of the SB. I want to ensure the formation is set properly, if Im paying proper amounts of cash for it then Im defo gonna make sure its done properly.

[454697819]

Tiz what we did. You missed out the hardcore....very important :)

Either that or wait for pikey.com to knock on your door!

yeah.. sorry

Type 1 aka MOT Type 1...

ill be doing mine.... one day, when I have built the extension..( ha ha ha ha ha)

[454697819]

I reckon you would save yourself at least 2k by doing it yourself.

[Owenski]

I recon'd on it been about 50% saving by completing it myself, but its a bit beyond anything I've attempted before and if it goes wrong its a 2.5k gamble I cant afford to lose.

[Luckypants]

hire digger... buy sand.. hire wacker plate.. go mental... lay blocks..

DIY man...

This

Only use 60mm blocks for driveways, the clay ones keep their colour longer but concrete are cheaper.

I don't know how much you know about drives etc, but put the effort in the prep and they won't sink, simple.

This

You missed out the hardcore....very important :)and this!

In addition, get your levels right from the very start. Any errors get harder and harder to fix with each layer of the drive as you lay it.

I did my own, hiring a JCB and driver to excavate and getting the hardcore and sand delivered directly from the quarries. 120 sq meter drive cost me about £5K all in, using mid-priced concrete blocks (Marshall's Driveline Excel).

The drive is about 6 years old now and has not sunk any where, the blocks are not eroding in high traffic areas but there has been some fading due to weathering. They need a good clean now as well! You can get a good quality finish by DIY, don't be scared of it.

Plenty of information on laying a block drive here :- http://www.pavingexpert.com/

Some photos of how mine looked when finished...

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-ash1/v329/214/80/677353213/n677353213_936823_2009.jpg

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-ash1/v329/214/80/677353213/n677353213_936820_883.jpg

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-ash1/v329/214/80/677353213/n677353213_936821_1259.jpg

[Luckypants]

I recon'd on it been about 50% saving by completing it myself, but its a bit beyond anything I've attempted before and if it goes wrong its a 2.5k gamble I cant afford to lose.I felt the same, but after reading up on the subject I realised it was a straight forward process and that the levels was the key issue. Once I got going I found it hard work, but straightforward.

[Owenski]

Did you use a wacker or a roller when you did yours?

[Stephen McG]

Levels are important but remember you need a 'fall' for drainage.
A slight slope away from house/garage will suffice but ensure the water has somewhere to go.
I have layed quite a few areas.
I normally use 150*50 edgings at the sides.
A plank of wood with a notch cut out each side (a few mm shorter than the depth of block) will allow give a smooth laying surface. the blocks will be slightly high but the vibrating plate will take this out.
If it is only to take cars then do not go mad with taking out earth to replace with type 1 (hardcore)
run the plate over the earth to compact, put down membrane and then 'sharp' sand.
If there is a slope in drive it will be like an ice rink for the first winter at least. Any dampness will freeze quickly.
You could leave some a little raised (make a pattern) to give extra grip.

Stephen McG in Glasgow

[Owenski]

Ground make up is clay with a certain soft spots, next door has a transit van which he currently parks on his drive adjacent to mine and he shovels bags of hardcore out every few months as the van causes some serious rutting.
I will be using geotextile, MOT 150mm MIN that much is certain!

[Luckypants]

Did you use a wacker or a roller when you did yours?Used a heavy duty diesel wacker for the hardcore and normal wacker for the sand. A rubber mat fitted to the lighter wacker was used to vibrate the blocks into place. All of the above were hired from local tool hire place.

[Bluepete]

How easy is Tarmac? I want to do our drive too, quuite happy DIY-ing it, but not done Tarmac before.

Pete ;)

Ps, and recommends for a Tarmac drive in the Wigan area?

[Owenski]

I'd never DIY tarmac, I'd do the excavation and sub base, I'd even be tempted to lay the binder as that only needs wacking (almost level) but I'd get pro's in to do the surface course 100%

Spec would be fine at: 150mm Sub base, 40mm Binder, 20mm Surface course
But you'd need to install the concrete edings which is pretty simple once you use some grey matter, but it'll be time consuming mixing the concrete haunch by hand.

[Luckypants]

but it'll be time consuming mixing the concrete haunch by hand.Rent or borrow a mixer, I found that one mixer load took me about 1.5 hours to haunch and lay blocks on to for the boundary. Same principle for blocks or tarmac I reckon.

[Specialone]

All the tarmac people do is go to the suppliers, pick it up, spread it out on your drive and roller it, not complicated.

Like anything prep is the key, Like LP said, levels are the one of the most important things, get them right it makes the laying of the blocks a doddle.
Id allow 25-30 of sand personally not 50mm, get the level to about 10 mm higher than it needs to be then whack the crap out of it.
I have never used the rubber mat on the whacker plate tbh, i just throw some a scattering of kiln dried sand down and never had a problem.
I used to charge around £50-£70 per metre when i offered this as a service, id sub it out now though tbh.
50 blocks to a metre for standard blocks.

[Luckypants]

Id allow 25-30 of sand personally not 50mm, get the level to about 10 mm higher than it needs to be then whack the crap out of it.50mm of sand is the recommended level for vehicle traffic. 25-30mm would be for foot traffic according to the books I read. There is a standard for this, but I don't know the name. My attitude was that sand is quite cheap and a subsiding drive is an expensive fix. So I went min 150mm DTp1 (limestone crusher run) and 50mm of sand. Agree on whacking seven bells out of it though, plus - its fun!

I have never used the rubber mat on the whacker plate tbh, i just throw some a scattering of kiln dried sand down and never had a problem.
Even on riven faced blocks? Even with the rubber mat I did get some damage to the block faces.

[Specialone]

50mm of sand is the recommended level for vehicle traffic. 25-30mm would be for foot traffic according to the books I read. There is a standard for this, but I don't know the name. My attitude was that sand is quite cheap and a subsiding drive is an expensive fix. So I went min 150mm DTp1 (limestone crusher run) and 50mm of sand. Agree on whacking seven bells out of it though, plus - its fun!


Even on riven faced blocks? Even with the rubber mat I did get some damage to the block faces.

Nope no damage to blocks mike.
I know they recommend 50 mm for vehicular traffic but id rather put more roadstone in tbh, that stays put once compacted.
If you really have to use 50mm of sand id whack it first before final levels cos you might find it will whack down more than you'd hoped it would.

[Owenski]

Rent or borrow a mixer, I found that one mixer load took me about 1.5 hours to haunch and lay blocks on to for the boundary. Same principle for blocks or tarmac I reckon.

Ha, I didnt see it reading that way.
I didnt mean by hand as in with a shovel, I was implying by hand would be with a mixer, this would be as opposed to having a ready mix delivery.

+1 on the depth mix, the spec I handed to estimator yesterday was that similar to a block paved vehicular crossing to kirkless council spec, expected to withstand dustbin wagons etc - driveway traffic therefore shouldnt be a problem.
Just watched a vid on the whole thing and tbh it is looking quite a lot easier than I thought. I've seen on sites many times the machines laying out the herringbone and just assumed that by hand this would be a nightmare... doesnt seem to be the case.

[Owenski]

Nope no damage to blocks mike.
I know they recommend 50 mm for vehicular traffic but id rather put more roadstone in tbh, that stays put once compacted.
If you really have to use 50mm of sand id whack it first before final levels cos you might find it will whack down more than you'd hoped it would.

The stuff I've just read suggests,
75mm MOT - Wacker,
75mm MOT - Wacker,
50mm Sand - Wacker, Screed, Wacker, Screed, Wacker and Screed
Lay Blocks,
Spread Kiln Dried Sand,
Sweep,
Wacker,
Sweep,
Wacker
Sand and Sweep (Repeat 2 weeks later).

[Luckypants]

The stuff I've just read suggests,
75mm MOT - Wacker,
75mm MOT - Wacker,
50mm Sand - Wacker, Screed, Wacker, Screed, Wacker and Screed
Lay Blocks,
Wacker,
Spread Kiln Dried Sand,
Sweep,
Wacker,
Sweep,
Wacker
Sand and Sweep (Repeat 2 weeks later).

Is what I did, with the step in red to rattle the blocks level onto the bedding sand before sweeping in the jointing sand.


Phil - fair play mate, you are the professional here. I was stating from my one DIY experience. Hire of the rubber mat was £2.50+VAT per day extra on top of the wacker plate, so I went with it. :)

[Specialone]

Mike, I'm not slagging off the whacker matt mate, I've never used or needed one that's all, so couldn't say ya or na.
For that cheap it's probably worth it though.

[tinpants]

The stuff I've just read suggests,
75mm MOT - Wacker,
75mm MOT - Wacker,
50mm Sand - Wacker, Screed, Wacker, Screed, Wacker and Screed
Lay Blocks,
Spread Kiln Dried Sand,
Sweep,
Wacker,
Sweep,
Wacker
Sand and Sweep (Repeat 2 weeks later).

Is what I did, with the step in red to rattle the blocks level onto the bedding sand before sweeping in the jointing sand.


Phil - fair play mate, you are the professional here. I was stating from my one DIY experience. Hire of the rubber mat was £2.50+VAT per day extra on top of the wacker plate, so I went with it. :)
The idea of putting the kiln dried sand on before wacking is to allow the wacker to vibe the sand into the spaces between the blocks thereby locking them together. I've done literally acres of block paving in the course of my business and also do tarmac and stamped concrete.

2 layers of type 1 GSB in 75mm increments is what I'd recommend with the geotextile on top. I used to use sharp sand to lay the paviors on but switched to stone dust as it binds together better post wacking. Just make sure you keep it dry as it turns to porridge in the rain - it'll be fine once its laid though.

As regards costings, it all depends on the blocks you opt for, but I would say that if you went for something like Marshall's Driveline 50, you shouldn't be paying much more than £70 per sq m laid. The price of £5000 for 50 sq m is way OTT IMHO. I would be expecting it to sing "God Save The Queen" whenever I drove on it for that price!!!!

Hope this has been of some assistance. If you need any more help / advice then drop me a pm.

[MisterTommyH]

Ground make up is clay with a certain soft spots, next door has a transit van which he currently parks on his drive adjacent to mine and he shovels bags of hardcore out every few months as the van causes some serious rutting.
I will be using geotextile, MOT 150mm MIN that much is certain!

If it's clay it's frost susceptible. We'd usually recommend a 450mm min build-up in that situation.

60 block paviours; on
50 sharp sand; on
150 type 1; on
6F/2 laid in max, 150mm well compacted layers (down to min depth of -450mm); on
terram 1000.

HTH

Edit: Of course it's only a drive so that might be a bit OTT, but you did say the transit next door causes rutting......worse in the winter is it?

Oh, and dig out the soft spots and replace with 6F/2

[speedplay]

Dave preston.

He has the accent, heritage and will work for beer.




Plus hes a pikey.

[BigBaddad]

Tiz what we did. You missed out the hardcore....very important :)




When you DIY, it's always important to have some decent hardcore before wacking.

[Specialone]

When you DIY, it's always important to have some decent hardcore before wacking.

I agree lol:smt019

[Owenski]

The idea of putting the kiln dried sand on before wacking is to allow the wacker to vibe the sand into the spaces between the blocks thereby locking them together. I've done literally acres of block paving in the course of my business and also do tarmac and stamped concrete.

2 layers of type 1 GSB in 75mm increments is what I'd recommend with the geotextile on top. I used to use sharp sand to lay the paviors on but switched to stone dust as it binds together better post wacking. Just make sure you keep it dry as it turns to porridge in the rain - it'll be fine once its laid though.

As regards costings, it all depends on the blocks you opt for, but I would say that if you went for something like Marshall's Driveline 50, you shouldn't be paying much more than £70 per sq m laid. The price of £5000 for 50 sq m is way OTT IMHO. I would be expecting it to sing "God Save The Queen" whenever I drove on it for that price!!!!

Hope this has been of some assistance. If you need any more help / advice then drop me a pm.

Very much so mate, thank you - I've spoken to the wife last night about it and agreed that if the driveway company can do it to my spec, but for £3000 ono then we'll get it done by them. If not then its a DIY job.

[Roberrrrt]

Matt, prob already mentioned it but get John to give you a quote - we'll pop up and see him next time I'm round yours. Pretty much guarantee he'll be cheaper than most, and you've seen his workmanship round my gaff...

[Luckypants]

The idea of putting the kiln dried sand on before wacking is to allow the wacker to vibe the sand into the spaces between the blocks thereby locking them together. I've done literally acres of block paving in the course of my business and also do tarmac and stamped concrete. I was aware of how the blocks locked together, the reason I vibrated/rattled the blocks without the kiln dried sand was to ease tight joints, tighten loose joints and level off imperfections in the blocks. This is what was recommended to me. After that it was sweep sand to fill joints, vibe, sweep sand, vibe, repeat until joints take no more sand.

Again as you are a professional I'll bow to your knowledge. It is reassuring to know I probably went OTT on my drive :D

[Owenski]

Matt, prob already mentioned it but get John to give you a quote - we'll pop up and see him next time I'm round yours. Pretty much guarantee he'll be cheaper than most, and you've seen his workmanship round my gaff...

Never even thought about John tbh, might be worth a shout that.

[timwilky]

Dave preston.

He has the accent, heritage and will sleep after beer.




Plus hes a pikey.

Corrected. Please do not hurt poor Dave's feeling with the use of the 'W' word. It is hard enough just getting out of bed

[timwilky]

Careful with the wacking, neighbours p1ss poor job had an extra complication after it started sinking. The pikey had smashed the clay sewer pipes that ran down the centre of their drive. Unfortunately our sewer runs into their garage where there is a manhole, then down their drive. Nice garage when it all backed up.

[SoulKiss]

Tiz what we did. You missed out the hardcore....very important :)

Here you go

Er5EZGEnpYA

[Owenski]

Whats the minimum loading you'd want from the wacker?

[454697819]

Whats the minimum loading you'd want from the wacker?

crikey, that technical...

"can I have a wacker for type 1 please"

yes ... here you go,

on a more serious note, the hire company should be able to advise you a ok..

[Owenski]

I see what your getting at but if im doing it myself I'll be buying all the gear, not hiring and I'll be selling off once Im done. Comes with the bonus of loosing less money and been able to take my sweet time over it.

Cost of hiring wacker, £70 for the week
Cost of buying wacker £150 (for as long as it takes) - £150 approx re-sale value = £0

It does however leave me cautious about the temptation in to buying the tools based on thier price, rather than their suitabilty - hence the previous question.

I'd be quite happy to build a drive out of 7N blocks so Im thinking nothing more than a 5N wacker would be needed and in which case this might be suitable. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WHACKER-EVOLUTION-HULK-ELECTRO-WACKER-PLATE-COMPACTOR-/370502438302?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Tools_Constructi on_Tools_ET&hash=item5643aa8d9e

or if thats not daddy enough then this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WHACKER-EVOLUTION-HULK-WACKER-PLATE-COMPACTOR-B-/370502438630?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Tools_Constructi on_Tools_ET&hash=item5643aa8ee6

they're both new items which gives piece of mind but im not against 2nd hand by any means.
my stihl saw and cement mixer are both 2nd handers, they'll also be getting sold once the gardens all done - with them I've already saved a fortune against hire costs.

[454697819]

I see what your getting at but if im doing it myself I'll be buying all the gear, not hiring and I'll be selling off once Im done. Comes with the bonus of loosing less money and been able to take my sweet time over it.

Cost of hiring wacker, £70 for the week
Cost of buying wacker £150 (for as long as it takes) - £150 approx re-sale value = £0

It does however leave me cautious about the temptation in to buying the tools based on thier price, rather than their suitabilty - hence the previous question.

I'd be quite happy to build a drive out of 7N blocks so Im thinking nothing more than a 5N wacker would be needed and in which case this might be suitable. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WHACKER-EVOLUTION-HULK-ELECTRO-WACKER-PLATE-COMPACTOR-/370502438302?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Tools_Constructi on_Tools_ET&hash=item5643aa8d9e

or if thats not daddy enough then this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WHACKER-EVOLUTION-HULK-WACKER-PLATE-COMPACTOR-B-/370502438630?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Tools_Constructi on_Tools_ET&hash=item5643aa8ee6

they're both new items which gives piece of mind but im not against 2nd hand by any means.
my stihl saw and cement mixer are both 2nd handers, they'll also be getting sold once the gardens all done - with them I've already saved a fortune against hire costs.

im with you now,

second one is the one you want if you are going to buy, IMHO,

give me a shout when your selling off your gear as Ill probably have the lot off you. lol.

[tinpants]

It really doesn't matter how big a wacker you go for, the maximum compaction is reached after approx 3 passes and is generally considered to be about 1 -2 inches in a 3 -4 inch layer of type 1 GSB. Most wackers won't compact much more than that. Some will, but you'd need a crane to lift them in!!

[tinpants]

I see what your getting at but if im doing it myself I'll be buying all the gear, not hiring and I'll be selling off once Im done. Comes with the bonus of loosing less money and been able to take my sweet time over it.

Cost of hiring wacker, £70 for the week
Cost of buying wacker £150 (for as long as it takes) - £150 approx re-sale value = £0

It does however leave me cautious about the temptation in to buying the tools based on thier price, rather than their suitabilty - hence the previous question.

I'd be quite happy to build a drive out of 7N blocks so Im thinking nothing more than a 5N wacker would be needed and in which case this might be suitable. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WHACKER-EVOLUTION-HULK-ELECTRO-WACKER-PLATE-COMPACTOR-/370502438302?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Tools_Constructi on_Tools_ET&hash=item5643aa8d9e

or if thats not daddy enough then this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WHACKER-EVOLUTION-HULK-WACKER-PLATE-COMPACTOR-B-/370502438630?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Tools_Constructi on_Tools_ET&hash=item5643aa8ee6

they're both new items which gives piece of mind but im not against 2nd hand by any means.
my stihl saw and cement mixer are both 2nd handers, they'll also be getting sold once the gardens all done - with them I've already saved a fortune against hire costs.
You'll be wasting your time with the leccy one. You may as well jump up and down on it yourself. The petrol one, although better than the electric, still isn't really very good but may do an adequate job. My Belle PCX 400 cost me over a grand. You get what you pay for. Just saying.

[Owenski]

This is what I wanna hear,
The sthil and the mixer are nothing more than what they are I cant go wrong there, but the wacker from what I gather would be the critical tool for this job - hence why although I want to buy, I dont want to buy something if its going to have a negative result.
If I have to hire, then I'll hire - In theory Ive already made a tidy saving on the other stuff (plus by doing it myself) a saving is a saving so no need to get greedy financially at the cost of a better result.

So as a pro you'd reccomend that I hire a wacker? {or payout a grand lol}

[454697819]

This is what I wanna hear,
The sthil and the mixer are nothing more than what they are I cant go wrong there, but the wacker from what I gather would be the critical tool for this job - hence why although I want to buy, I dont want to buy something if its going to have a negative result.
If I have to hire, then I'll hire - In theory Ive already made a tidy saving on the other stuff (plus by doing it myself) a saving is a saving so no need to get greedy financially at the cost of a better result.

So as a pro you'd reccomend that I hire a wacker? {or payout a grand lol}

I dont think thats exactly what he is getting at,

like all tools you get what you pay for, the £250 wacker would probably do the right job, but not for as long,

Hence there are DIY tools and professional tools,

DIY do the job, maybe just a bit slower and dont last as long as pro tools.

[Owenski]

http://www.hss.com/index.php?g=47428#SpecificationTitle

47436 seems to be the daddy of thier fleet - that cracks out 16kn
The ebay link was only 10 - do you recon I'd be able to do the MOT in a day, the sand in a day - 2 days to lay blocks then 5th day sand and sweep the blocks?

If that seems reasonable then, I could do a day hire before doing the haunching for the edges and send it back while I do all my concreting.
Then hire one again for a week to carry out the surface construction.

[Luckypants]

Owenski, if you really want to buy get one like the petrol one for the sand / blocks. Hire a big dock-off diesel wacker for the hardcore though, definitely compacts to refusal with one of them bad boys. The big diesel wacker would be too much for the blocks though.

[454697819]

http://www.hss.com/index.php?g=47428#SpecificationTitle

47436 seems to be the daddy of thier fleet - that cracks out 16kn
The ebay link was only 10 - do you recon I'd be able to do the MOT in a day, the sand in a day - 2 days to lay blocks then 5th day sand and sweep the blocks?

If that seems reasonable then, I could do a day hire before doing the haunching for the edges and send it back while I do all my concreting.
Then hire one again for a week to carry out the surface construction.

Mate

I think your over complicating it a little, of course you want to get it right don't get me wrong.

if you layer the hard core it will compact with a normal average hire compactor, you will know when it stop as A) you cant get anymore down and B) it will no longer be spongy under foot.

Take your time, and lets be honest, if you have to hire it for a weekend, then another weekend thats £140 max in a 3k project.

[Owenski]

Im an engineer, its my job to over evaluate :-D

Just remembered this image:
http://forums.sv650.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=7864&d=1283433748

Former car, parked on area to be blockpaved.

There are 2tons of hardcore on that drive, which if you look at the wheel tracks you can see its steadily been bedded into the clay.
First hire tool will be a digger :) cos u can get buggered if anyone thinks im digging out a clay/hardcore composit by hand.

[tactcom7]

I will pay you if you let me come drive the digger all day! :-)

[Owenski]

lol if anyone wants to pay to help me then they're more than welcome.