View Full Version : Bad engine noises.
stepheng
19-05-11, 09:02 PM
peeps .... I have had to leave my beloved steed in strange place overnight ... in the cold ... alone.... I am bereft...
a nice little bimble tonight turned into a nightmare
making spirited progress on a dual carriageway (not 3 figures though)
a sound suddenly came about from the engine. No warning lights, misfires ... a slight noticeable lack of the normal vibration pulled in ... sounded like a blown exhaust... checked for obvious looseness splits etc ... nothing ...hand over the end of the exhaust pipe no difference.
helmet off only to hear a loud metallic clanking from the front cylinder/barrel....
nothing ever heard like it before
plenty oil (new) and always changed every year with filter
it sounds horrendous.... help me.....my beloved steed needs me...
[-o<
stepheng
20-05-11, 09:17 PM
got the steed back tonight
although I cannot get the compression tester down the plug hole
sticking your finger in the plug hole definately finds good compression - but lbs sq in would be better
whipped the cam cover orf and all seems well there.. plenty oil ...
.5 - 1mm or so back and forth on the camshaft no up and down play...
chain is intact
just clicked 19K miles... thought I would have got a few more miles before this happened...
what the hell do I do now????
:(:(:(:(:(:(
I take it the cam chain was tight - i.e. not a failed tensioner?
Can you describe the noise in a bit more detail? Did you lose power when it happened? Any work been done recently?
BTW I'm only asking in case more info helps someone who knows what they're talking about - don't expect me to come back with a sensible answer. :p
stepheng
20-05-11, 10:21 PM
appreciated
could be a failed tensioner .. I can pull the chain a fair distance off the cam shaft drive.. it does seem quite loose but not sure if it only tensions when running...
even the bike recovery geezer says its unusual to hear of the sv going pop at 19k (this bike had been exceptionally looked after prior to me getting me mits on it) ;)
I'll get there .... it just takes me sooo much longer these days!!
That does indeed sound like a failed tensioner (or tensioner blade) - you shouldn't really be able to move the cam chain at all.
If it's got really loose and jumped a tooth, you could've mashed things up in there. Check the cam timing (if you've got a manual it'll show you how) - if the timing is off , you'll probably need to get the heads off to check the valves + piston. If you're lucky the noise may just be the chain slapping around while it's loose and the timing's still good...in which case a new tensioner should fix it.
In the event of mashed up valves etc., I've got a pair of heads from my SV engine (the bottom end went) - probably cheaper to buy one of those than to get the work done to replace any bent valves.
stepheng
20-05-11, 11:16 PM
if the tension is applied when idle I would say its that that has failed ....
but without checking how it works, the valve timing etc there's not enough indicators ye (I'm reading the Haynes manual now!!!)
There was no loss of power when the noise came on...
the noise is strange as its not like a small end or big end knock it comes from the cylinder/block area and is rythmic to the stroke... not a knock but a klack with lots of background.... similar to piston slap but not as pronounced ..... sorry this is tres difficult!!!!
I will do a recording and stick it on utoob... the noise I think would be consistent with a failed tensioner
if the valves are mashed thats a tough call ....eeek
but that offer of the heads is tres kind sir and I would take you up on it if the worst is found
I would feel a lot happier with a compression check and the skillful ear of someone with more sv mechanical savvy than moi
the bike is a gem (known history et al) straight as a die ... it would be a shame if I found lots of expensive broken bits inside....
if the tension is applied when idle I would say its that that has failed ....
but without checking how it works, the valve timing etc there's not enough indicators ye (I'm reading the Haynes manual now!!!)
There was no loss of power when the noise came on...
the noise is strange as its not like a small end or big end knock it comes from the cylinder/block area and is rythmic to the stroke... not a knock but a klack with lots of background.... similar to piston slap but not as pronounced ..... sorry this is tres difficult!!!!
I will do a recording and stick it on utoob... the noise I think would be consistent with a failed tensioner
if the valves are mashed thats a tough call ....eeek
but that offer of the heads is tres kind sir and I would take you up on it if the worst is found
I would feel a lot happier with a compression check and the skillful ear of someone with more sv mechanical savvy than moi
the bike is a gem (known history et al) straight as a die ... it would be a shame if I found lots of expensive broken bits inside....
Hopefully just the CCT and the noise is chain slap but I wouldn't run the engine anymore until you know the score. Front CCT's easy enough to remove.
It moves out in stages on a ratchet mechanism - it shouldn't move back in and let the chain go loose.
Check the CCT and I'd defo want to check the timing before firing that engine up again.
stepheng
22-05-11, 03:36 PM
Think I have been tres lucky and glad I didnt ride the bike home...
Hopefully this will be conclusive !!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d76ZIVkg4VQ
timing marks on camshaft checked with the 16 links between the cogs
F on flywheel checked against valve timing marks and all as per manual
ordering tensioner tomorrow !!!
anyone know if the newer K3 (improved ratchet version) will fit the 2000 model?
fingers crossed .......
Holy crappity. That ain't good.
Take out the front CCT and take a look at it. For added peace of mind, take out the rear one and put it in the front and check that the front cam chain goes taut. If it does, it's probably just the tensioner that's gone, and you're good.
martin15s
22-05-11, 03:51 PM
yes
stepheng
22-05-11, 05:47 PM
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj108/stevefromthetoon/Picture005.jpg
lovin this gettin back on the tools !
the complete tensioner in the photo is how it came out the hole ... definately not making contact with the cam chain!!
I gently inserted a dowel into the hole and the chain immediately lost its slack.... that must be good...
but I've stripped the old tensioner down and for the love of me there is not a spring anywhere to be found ... this is a cute design yes??
does it have some way of screwing down itself to the correct pressure on the chain... it certainly doesnt spring out like some peeps say ??
it couldnt be a manual tensioner ??? the bike is a w plate registered 03/2000
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj108/stevefromthetoon/Picture007.jpghttp://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj108/stevefromthetoon/Picture009.jpg
Spring is probably stuck in the tensioner body - if I remember rightly, the little thing on the left of the bottom photo is the bottom of it.
Im a little speechless at that though - that's a bit of a catastrophic failure.
New tensioner and you'll be reet.
barwel1992
22-05-11, 07:35 PM
if that didn't skip a tooth you were very very very lucky mine skipped when turning it over by hand (no tensioner )
stepheng
23-05-11, 05:30 PM
cheers Barwell!
I can only think that it's because I have been saying my prayers lately... can well understand how easily it could jump on the cog especially under engine load !
the timing has been checked and re checked and last night verified by a good spanners man and its correct
did you have the top guide on when yours 'jumped'?
I am reeeelly glad (nay..... nay....... feckin reeeeeellly glad) I took the decision to get the bike transported home in a recovery truck and did not try to limp home....
its been a great exercise getting my mind to focus on something useful instead of playing zombies into the early hours !!!!
78 sobs for a replacement is a bit steep for what it is..... but boy it could have been a whole lot worse.....
thanks peeps .... I'll tell ye all when I'm back bimbling doon the nothumbrian lanes!
rictus01
23-05-11, 06:00 PM
Just as a side note to this, it's worth resetting the tentioners at each service it takes very little time and insures they are working correctly, not sure what the manual says, but well worth doing.
Cheers Mark.
Teejayexc
23-05-11, 06:03 PM
Just as a side note to this, it's worth resetting the tentioners at each service it takes very little time and insures they are working correctly, not sure what the manual says, but well worth doing.
Cheers Mark.
Do you take notice of the 'manual' Mark ? :cyclopsani:
+1 for the check though.
rictus01
23-05-11, 06:08 PM
Do you take notice of the 'manual' Mark ? :cyclopsani: .
always take note mate, but that's far removed for doggedly following it.....;)
martin15s
23-05-11, 06:53 PM
nice one Rictus
barwel1992
23-05-11, 08:36 PM
cheers Barwell!
I can only think that it's because I have been saying my prayers lately... can well understand how easily it could jump on the cog especially under engine load !
the timing has been checked and re checked and last night verified by a good spanners man and its correct
did you have the top guide on when yours 'jumped'?
I am reeeelly glad (nay..... nay....... feckin reeeeeellly glad) I took the decision to get the bike transported home in a recovery truck and did not try to limp home....
its been a great exercise getting my mind to focus on something useful instead of playing zombies into the early hours !!!!
78 sobs for a replacement is a bit steep for what it is..... but boy it could have been a whole lot worse.....
thanks peeps .... I'll tell ye all when I'm back bimbling doon the nothumbrian lanes!
yeh top guide was on, the only thing that wasn't was the cam cover
stepheng
24-05-11, 11:53 AM
ONow that the tensioners have been put on the must check service interval (thanks for the input) I see over the pond they haven't messed about and make a good old fashioned manual version by APE.....
After the knowledge gained here and the frequency of failure I think it prudent to go that route .... when these that are fitted near their expected end of life .... which I've set at 14k or the valve clearance interval .... which is
similar to aircraft maintenance?
I would feel a lot happier when I adjust the cam chain rather than a dodgey design that could wreck the motor. ...
They don't fail that frequently, plenty of bikes with much higher mileages on with original tensioners. The later tensioners (I think K5 onwards) are better though, and fit the older engines.
barwel1992
24-05-11, 11:05 PM
^ k3 on are the better ones
stepheng
25-05-11, 09:54 AM
The geezer in the parts dept says the numbers don't match which
means they are not interchangeable. ...
although I have heard but not validated that the modified one will work correctly...
Judging by the traffic on the net there is definately a problem with the design. ... US laws slightly different but some say they want them replaced under recall system..... I wish we were a bit tougher over here on poorly performing kit. ...
454697819
25-05-11, 10:41 AM
The geezer in the parts dept says the numbers don't match which
means they are not interchangeable. ...
although I have heard but not validated that the modified one will work correctly...
Judging by the traffic on the net there is definately a problem with the design. ... US laws slightly different but some say they want them replaced under recall system..... I wish we were a bit tougher over here on poorly performing kit. ...
no.. different part numbers means just that, as they are a different design i would expect that, it does not mean they wont fit, or not work properly
andrewsmith
25-05-11, 10:47 AM
That got to be M&S motorcycles you've been to.
They know that the CCT's from that period of bikes are crap. One of the mechanics has had it happen on a DRZ400
The K3 change has definitely been done in the past.
Stephen, you looked at the cylinder head?
stepheng
25-05-11, 07:02 PM
It was M&S... its paid for now and comes tomorrow
My trusted spanners friend and myself double and triple (!) checked the timing .....
manually tensioned the chain and gently turned the motor over no resistance clicks clunks ...it was nice and smooth...
I am quite happy to fire it up when all the fluids etc are in and its back together .....
if its gawn ..... its gawn ... but the noise it originally was making must have been the chain touching the casing....
I'm starting to get cabin fever already!!!!
It was M&S... its paid for now and comes tomorrow
Quality castings. High grade materials. Precision machining. Long life operation.
These aren't just cam chain tensioners, these are M&S cam chain tensioners ;)
andrewsmith
26-05-11, 10:15 AM
Quality castings. High grade materials. Precision machining. Long life operation.
These aren't just cam chain tensioners, these are M&S cam chain tensioners ;)
:winner:
I've been waiting for that one
stepheng
26-05-11, 11:26 AM
Duh ......
and here's me trying to spread a bit of kultcha
I have the high quality piece of kit in my hand now ....
(I collect the tensioner later ) :-D
We will be sorted tonight!
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