View Full Version : Save the NHS
At the risk of getting political on a Friday night...This is an issue very close to me, it will not only impact my future career, but it could affect huge aspects of the lives of every single one of us...
Where were you when you were born - probably and NHS hospital, where were your kids (if you have any) born - probably and NHS hospital, where do you go when you are sick or when you have an off - probably an NHS hospital, will you be when you die - probably in an NHS hospital.
But it will only be OUR NHS if we fight to keep it that way...
The NHS is a valuable thing, probably more so for us who are more likely than most to need some sort of treatment.
If you value the NHS and want to keep it please sign this petition (http://www.38degrees.org.uk/page/s/Protect_our_NHS_Petition#petition).
Thank you!
martin15s
27-05-11, 07:30 PM
until the UK NHS can compete with Spain (for instance) for cleanliness, the number and quality of nurses and doctors, then the NHS will only be an expensive and poorly run luxury. Please note, I am NOT targeting those that actually do work at the sharp end. The phrase "too many chiefs" comes to mind.
Totally agree - so surely adding another level of "chiefs" is a pointless exercise?
Teejayexc
27-05-11, 07:37 PM
Where were you when you were born...........
In a dark, warm, moist, wet and comfortable place.
Then some twohat got hold my ears and pulled me out into a brightly lit room with about four pairs of eyes staring down at me. To cap it all they then turned me upside down and slapped my ar5e ! Bast*rds !!
Wish I was still in there :smt090
martin15s
27-05-11, 07:43 PM
the way the NHS operates is a total farce and waste of money - however, I am fortunate enough to be able to live in a country with an excellent system. To be honest, the NHS, in my opinion is way beyond it's sell by date and is undergoing an extended form of euthanasia. Put it out of it's misery and start again. Like many once great British institutions, it is no longer fit for purpose and no amount of tinkering can save it.
Good luck with your petition though, and career.
markmoto
27-05-11, 08:07 PM
At the risk of getting political on a Friday night...This is an issue very close to me, it will not only impact my future career, but it could affect huge aspects of the lives of every single one of us...
Where were you when you were born - probably and NHS hospital, where were your kids (if you have any) born - probably and NHS hospital, where do you go when you are sick or when you have an off - probably an NHS hospital, will you be when you die - probably in an NHS hospital.
But it will only be OUR NHS if we fight to keep it that way...
The NHS is a valuable thing, probably more so for us who are more likely than most to need some sort of treatment.
If you value the NHS and want to keep it please sign this petition (http://www.38degrees.org.uk/page/s/Protect_our_NHS_Petition#petition).
Thank you!
The majority of people in this country havent got any fight in them, they will just take whats coming to them.
That maybe so, and I do understand the view point that the NHS is outdated, but I felt I had to post.
markmoto
27-05-11, 08:13 PM
That maybe so, and I do understand the view point that the NHS is outdated, but I felt I had to post.
Of course free to speak your mind good on you :-D
martin15s
27-05-11, 08:18 PM
I was once proud of Britain, particularly England, and the NHS, but successive governments and the freeloaders they have encouraged have destroyed that.
markmoto
27-05-11, 08:21 PM
I was once proud of Britain, particularly England, and the NHS, but successive governments and the freeloaders they have encouraged have destroyed that.
Do something about it then, be the change you want to see.
Specialone
27-05-11, 08:28 PM
Things that have to change...
Too many chiefs, 1 good, well paid manager should free up the need for 5 or 6 supervisors, team leaders etc etc.
3rd party training consultants, outside contractors, advisors, this has to stop, we don't get value for money with these people.
Useless seminars telling staff things they already know but pay the lecturers a grand a time.
Drug supplies, we get massively overcharged for drugs, some non prescription drugs are cheaper in the supermarkets than we pay for them in the Nhs.
I understand they have R&D costs but if the public knew how much money gets banded around on commission for the reps, free conferences in hot countries for consultants and the like, there would be some difficult questions asked.
Do something about it then.
He did. He moved to Spain. ;)
Things that have to change...etc
You can also write to Andrew Lansley here (http://www.38degrees.org.uk/page/speakout/nhs-listening-response?js=false)
I suggest you copy and paste your post and send it to him.
martin15s
27-05-11, 08:45 PM
He did. He moved to Spain. ;)
nice one Tam
Biker Biggles
27-05-11, 08:50 PM
So how is it all paid for in Spain?
Worth remembering the Spanish government is even more bankrupt than we are.
Jen, dinnae worry.
The NHS in Scotland is a separate organisation. It always has been but it's more noticeable since devolution.
The UK coalition Government only controls the NHS in England. In Scotland the SNP is opposed to privatisation. I suppose time will tell who's got that one right.
I'll not be signing the petition because I think the English have had enough of us jocks having a say on things that affect them, but don't affect us.
I know Tam, but considering the Scottish government have all but wiped out jobs for newly qualified nurses and midwives (that would be me then) I'm having to look to England (and further afield) for work, so I feel it does and will affect me in the very near future.
martin15s
27-05-11, 08:58 PM
So how is it all paid for in Spain?
Worth remembering the Spanish government is even more bankrupt than we are.
contributions from the working population - I pay 264 euros per month for me my wife and son, and given the quality regard it as great value. that also includes my social security payments upwards my pension but given my age I will not qualify because I officially retire in 2 years. Then I won't have to pay any more as a pensioner - UK pay then under a reciprocal agreement. I still pay UK income tax!
the way the NHS operates is a total farce and waste of money. To be honest, the NHS, in my opinion is way beyond it's sell by date and is undergoing an extended form of euthanasia.
Good luck with your petition though, and career.
Apologies Martin for first of all just quoting you, and chopping your post, but I can't be ar5ed sifting through some of the other informed opinions.
And apologies to others too for what may be a bit of a blunt post.
I have many years service with the NHS, and subsequently many years service as a supplier to the NHS. I left the NHS because it took forever to get something through the layers of stupidity that had evolved but, as much as I hated Labour, I've got to say that there is a huge amount they did for the NHS that is very good, including ripping out a lot of that stupidity.
As for "there's too many managers." In a lot of cases the label manager is a relatively new title for a post that has always been there, e.g. the theatre manager is quite often the senior Sister and still has pretty much all the clinical duties she has always had. And the same applies to so many other managers, they're managers in title but in reality they are clinical supervisors who contribute directly in the care of patients.
I could list a whole host of half truths and spin that has been woven by politicians, and the media, that is way off the mark. Sadly an awful lot of that spin gets quoted by retired Police Officers et al who have been duped into believing it. And I could quote reams of good that sadly rarely see the light of day.
There are things that need changing in the NHS, one of them being the layer of employees who's job it is to measure everything to the Nth degree just like in the Police and Education, but it is a far better organisation than a lot of people think it is. I know how commercially aware so many of their managers are now, and how careful they are with your money.
Don't join in with the politicians in kicking the NHS around the houses, it really needs your support right now not blind abuse. Lets hope the policy that finally goes through is something that recognises the good that is already there whilst addressing the bad.
Apologies if I've gone to far for some but I really hate hearing/seeing some of the falsehoods and misrepresentations that some people have been duped into believing being perpetuated ad infinitum.
The Idle Biker
27-05-11, 10:20 PM
Apologies Martin for first of all just quoting you, and chopping your post, but I can't be ar5ed sifting through some of the other informed opinions.
And apologies to others too for what may be a bit of a blunt post.
I have many years service with the NHS, and subsequently many years service as a supplier to the NHS. I left the NHS because it took forever to get something through the layers of stupidity that had evolved but, as much as I hated Labour, I've got to say that there is a huge amount they did for the NHS that is very good, including ripping out a lot of that stupidity.
As for "there's too many managers." In a lot of cases the label manager is a relatively new title for a post that has always been there, e.g. the theatre manager is quite often the senior Sister and still has pretty much all the clinical duties she has always had. And the same applies to so many other managers, they're managers in title but in reality they are clinical supervisors who contribute directly in the care of patients.
I could list a whole host of half truths and spin that has been woven by politicians, and the media, that is way off the mark. Sadly an awful lot of that spin gets quoted by retired Police Officers et al who have been duped into believing it. And I could quote reams of good that sadly rarely see the light of day.
There are things that need changing in the NHS, one of them being the layer of employees who's job it is to measure everything to the Nth degree just like in the Police and Education, but it is a far better organisation than a lot of people think it is. I know how commercially aware so many of their managers are now, and how careful they are with your money.
Don't join in with the politicians in kicking the NHS around the houses, it really needs your support right now not blind abuse. Lets hope the policy that finally goes through is something that recognises the good that is already there whilst addressing the bad.
Apologies if I've gone to far for some but I really hate hearing/seeing some of the falsehoods and misrepresentations that some people have been duped into believing being perpetuated ad infinitum.
Nicely put, Sir - petition signed.
ok its flawed but its paid by the people for the people. if we ever do go private then the gov will tax us just the same but we will loose yet another service. the problem is the funding like other funding is not ring fenced and the surplus is used to top up other things. take road tax for instance, if every penny raised was spent on the roads in the uk we would have the best roads in the world, but no the funds are put in the pot and divvied up. this keeps the supposed costs of other services 'cheep' to fool joe public.
dont let our beloved NHS fall into the hands of private enterprise or foreign hands. there is enough of britain gone elsewhere.
martin15s
28-05-11, 06:48 AM
Until the abuse of our public systems by freeloaders (of which there must be hundreds of thousands) is firmly tackled, then no amount of public money thrown at these institutions can save them. I certainly do not want this to turn into a racist thread, but it does seem to me that Britain is becoming the dustbin for the world's increasing population - too many asylum seekers and other undesirable elements (one of Mugabe's henchmen given leave to remain in UK because of his human rights) - that that the few that can and must pay are constantly supporting the rest. I know that when I do pop over to England, I despair at what I see. Nowhere is perfect - we live in Spain for valid health reasons - unemployment is horrendous, my 19 year old son cannot find work, but the overall quality of life is just so much better. I suppose we could return to live in England and my wife could then legally and rightfully tear the a*** out of the benefits system but still not receive the quality of health care she gets here. I really hate to see what is happening to the NHS et al, but unless the government (of whatever persuasion) start to listen to the electorate and do what they were elected to do, then things can only get worse.
Believe me, If I really thought that signing the petition would actually achieve something then I would.
(As an aside, if Camilla ever becomes Queen, then that really will be the end of the UK for me....)
Specialone
28-05-11, 07:00 AM
Another thing, The Nhs shouldn't be paying for healthcare for non residents or non nationals, don't know about other parts of the country but we get foreigners come here on 'treatment holidays'.
These people take the pi55, they know exactly what they are doing, getting free healthcare to which they don't contribute.
They call 999 and get an ambulance for a cut finger etc which costs us loads of dosh.
I'm not talking about stopping treatment for the ones that need emergency or life threatening care, but these cases are rare compared to the others.
martin15s
28-05-11, 07:07 AM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/council-spending/8542909/Councils-spend-100m-on-taxpayer-funded-credit-cards.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/council-spending/8542925/Council-credit-cards-700000-bill-for-theme-parks-and-leisure-activities.html
Stories like this help to highlight what is wrong with public services.
martin15s
28-05-11, 07:14 AM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/jeremy-warner/8539423/Look-even-Sweden-charges-for-healthcare.html
well worth a read....
dizzyblonde
28-05-11, 07:38 AM
where were your kids (if you have any) born - probably and NHS hospital,
With my first I couldn't wait to get out of there. 12 hrs in total I was there. Solely because it was a newly built place, the service was terrible, I was left on my own to fend for myself, through the night with a new kid, nobody checked on me, just got him born and fecked off.....fair it was 3am, but to leave a baby totally nakid with a new mum, then proclaim he was blue, jaundiced and cold a few hrs later, was not a pleasant experience. To top it off the room was filthy, I won't say about the shower room, it was disgusting. I'd have been better giving birth in an abatoir!
However, with Oliver, the experience was much better, but then they couldn't take any chances with him, because if they hadn't have given me their full on attention he would have died. In fact, they went totally overboard with their proddings, pokings, scans etc.
I am exceedingly grateful for the care I got the second time round, I'd have felt the same the first time, if my midwife had come off her holiday 12 hrs earlier, and not come in like a whirlwind at 7am too late, but oh how things changed when she arrived!
Things have improved in our NHS hospital. Apart from childbirth, I've had the experience of their hip replacement service, their live saving kidney ops, carpul tunnel surgery to name a few(family not me personally!). All those, were perhaps good and lucky experiences, as I know others who've had the same that have not had a good result....in surgery, wards, aftercare etc.
Its like potluck, and it shoudn't be so.Its not just a variation from hospital to hospital, its a variation from day to day, and it shouldn't be like that.
Its like potluck, and it shoudn't be so.Its not just a variation from hospital to hospital, its a variation from day to day, and it shouldn't be like that.
Thats only going to get worse as they hand over the planning and provision of care to GPs.
You could get super care in your local hospital, and your friend in the next town could get rubbish care - all thats going to happen is the ridiculous postcode lottery that we have now for things like cancer drugs - can you imagine how much worse that would get if the consortium was responsible for deciding which operations were happening, which drugs they are providing etc?
And that whole "I'd sign if I thought it made a difference" attitude pi55es me off - it made a difference when a few million of us signed a petition to save the public forests, why should the NHS mean any less or be any different. And perhaps I'd take those stories more seriously if some of them had come from some publications other than the Torygraph.
martin15s
28-05-11, 09:52 AM
perhaps the forests were worth saving
So other countries allegedlly have better facilities...
I've seen hospitals in Germany, Holland, France, Greece, & Spain. In all the countries mentioned each has hospitals that are better than ours and worse. I've had staff go out to Holland, France, Norway, Sweden, Greece, Saudi & Spain because their own staff couldn't cope with their workload - and they're better than us(?).
Rather than post up a load of anecdotal evidence of what good and bad in each country lets just cut to the nub of what the proposed changes are all about. Its about redirecting of the funding to make best use of it, and its about privatisation of various parts of it.
Privatisation has been going on for years, e.g. regional dialysis centres & national diagnostic centres. Pretty much every hospital site has private clinics on it from which the NHS buys services.
Redirecting the funding to specific clinical areas and regional areas will, as Jen says, create further post code provision and hence larger areas akin to healthcare deserts - strangely enough if you go out in the sticks in some of the countries mentioned above, Spain, Portugal, Greece, you have exactly that.
So just what is wrong with the NHS? The infrastructure, and hence the finances, can't cope with the population. The choices are more money but that isn't available, get tougher with medical tourists, reduce the available specialities free at the point of use. Or move the funding to other Managers (GP's in this instance) and ask them to achieve better provision with the less money... recipe for disaster.
As Bibio says, do you think there'll be a reduction in tax if medical insurance becomes a necessity? Of course there will, just like Council Tax when Water Rates were seperated from it, and sold off to private companies.
If you are happy to go down the road that will see a further increase in postcode provision of service, and ultimately the need for medical insurance on top of what you already pay for don't sign the petition.
Bluefish
28-05-11, 11:06 AM
Signed, with a comment :D
martin15s
28-05-11, 11:08 AM
I can only speak from personal experience over many years. It is clear that successive governments have continued the fail in their duties.
I can only speak from personal experience over many years. It is clear that successive governments have continued the fail in their duties.
Spot on Martin. Its been a great institution, spoiled by successive govts wanting to fix something that wasn't broken and ending up loading it with unnecessary costs.
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