Extralube ZX1 question.

[Dunn-y]

I have been recommended this Extralube ZX1 as an Oil additive which supposedly helps the oil lube the engine better. I've never really bothered looking into additives as most of them do nothing beneficial or worth their money. What do you guys/gals think of this ZX1 stuff?

Link to ZX1 - http://www.team-zx1.com/What-Is-Extralube-ZX1

Thanks

[AndyBrad]

right, i used something the same as this called activ8 in a mini engine a long time ago. Not too long after using it the diff exited through the rear of the gearbox!

i cant advise you enough to stay away!

[Bibio]

well if you listen to everyone else then all you will hear is i used this stuff horror stories and its snake oil blada blada, but i have to date been unable to find anyone who has said that ZX1 has damaged their vehicle, its always been other brands.

i have been using ZX1 for around 10 years maybe more and will continue to use it. it works yes i know its just zinc phosphate or the likes but i dont care.

one example i can give is my mother-in-law's car. i took it down the workshop to weld up a few bitz and pieces and give it a good old service. i was mortified when i got it and checked the oil there was none, yup i was doing naughty speeds for the best part of 30 miles. i dropped the sup bolt and it had about 1ltr of oil in it. 6-8 months previous to that it had a service and i added said snake oil to it. ooohhh and before you ad 'but it used all that oil' the car in question was an old fecked up well abused high millage and due for the scrappy corsa.

i used it in my last bike and i use it in my new bike will no i'll effects. i also use it in every car i buy and none have ever broken down on me.

no i dont work or am affiliated with ZX1 in any way what so ever.

so call it hocus pocus snake oil if you want. i know it does what it says on the tin.

[AndyBrad]

note to self, never buy anything that bilbo has owned.

Ive seen engines run dry before and restart after they have cooled down. Doesnt mean to say that stuffs saved them.

[Dunn-y]

The guy who recommended it to me said he uses it in his bike most of the time and that he would go halfs with me if I decided to use it. I haven't found any horror stories about ZX1 yet and it seems to be a genuine product but is it worth the money? Is there any noticable differences in how the engine runs. I'm on the fence with this one.

[Bibio]

Andy you had a bad experience with another product that may or may not have caused the problem.

you put a snake oil in a car then it broke so you blame the snake oil.

i stay away from all other brands of snake oil and additives apart from flushes. namely slick 50 which i would not touch with a very long barge pole.

[Bibio]

it wont fix a crap engine or stop it smoking or rattling and is not a magic cure.

but the differences i have found is smoother running.

[Dunn-y]

After doing some research I found out that apparently the Army uses this stuff in their vehicles. However I have also found quite a few places that urge people to stay away from ZX1 and one forum which had quoted a Chemical engineer or something that had said this stuff is old technology which was abandoned by manufacturers because of serious side effects which weren't apparent till later on in the engines life. Now whether this was an actual legit quote I can't say but I am going to stay away from this stuff for now.

[AndyBrad]

oil works by creating a film between the 2 components. this stuff apparently works by breaking down this film and allowing the components to gring together providing a better surface finish.

Or have i got it wrong? so you spend a fortune on oil (40 quid for my bike) and then pop this stuff in that prevents the oil from working as it should? increasing the surface finish on components is all well and good but you have some surface finishes for a reason.

[AndyBrad]

slick 50 (as many others) are very very old tech. They will help a very old engine however in modern stuff it is known to clog the oilways etc. hence why there was a load of law suits a while ago.

[tom-k6]

not being funny but they spent years upon years developing these oils i.e. 10W40 yadda yadda yadda.

so why would the oil alone not be good enough? it is what its there for and if the engine does malfunction and you can catagorically PROVE it was the fault of the oil you have in there, then the oil manufacturer are responsible, you would hope.

just makes me think of Octane boosters for fuel to gain an extra 2 to 3 hp, its just not cost efficient i think anyway.

:)

[maviczap]

I used Zx1 to no ill effect in my Cavalier, so an old tech engine in many respects, although I think I added what was left into the diesel Zafira, with no problems.

They said that you could add a couple of ml to the cooling water, which I did and I noticed that the water temp dropped by a few deg and stayed that way, so it did have a positive effect that I could notice.

I've got a big tub of Zx1 grease in the garage, which I use on most things, its a lovely sexy red colour :p

[AndyBrad]

have a look at octane boosters. 80% do bugger all on a nice clean engine.

manufacturers say you will invalidate a warrenty if you use stuff like this. Wonder why that is?

its balls. It works on that test but its not suitable for a car/bike engine. especially if its got a shared gearbox imo

[yorkie_chris]

Octane boosters are different, if you don't bump compression they do nowt. It's just f***wits who can't even do basic searching of wikipedia who think it helps!

These snake oils, tell you what the oil manufacturers want to start buying the stuff! They could make a fortune selling oil with it already in!

Seriously, for example castrol spend millions making new super racy WSB spec 0w50 super synth, massively complex blends of carefully formed synthetics, VIs and other additives, then you buy it for £6 a liter or whatever. Over a hundred years of lubricant development and some bloke in a shed has some stuff to tip in?! F***s sake...

Bike (IIRC) tested a ZX6R a while ago, they drained all but a liter of oil out of it and held it on the limiter. It rapidly emptied it's coolant due to overheating and after half an hour or so burned the exhaust can off! Refilling the oil and coolant saw it run fine afterwards. How much abuse is reasonable to test for?
I have also drained a liter or so of oil out of car engines which have not appeared to suffer from it.

Go to uni, do a tribology degree, or go work for castrol or someone. Find out the exact composition of all this stuff and tell me how and why it works. Otherwise it is anectodal, all psychological, and generally BS. And you're probably just putting relabelled splash of mineral oil in your engine ;)

[Bibio]

with all respect Andy you have never used ZX1 so how can you comment on something you have never used? this is like trying to describe a fine wine or a well aged whisky that you have never drank.

so far we have 2 people that have never used it and say its snake oil and 2 people who have used it and say it works.

dont knock products because of your bad experience with some other product.

[Bibio]

from what i know the main ingredient it zinc phosphate which used to be used in oils as a slip agent until it was deemed to be unstable for catalytic converters. its still used but in smaller amounts in oils.

you will always get your haters and lovers its just that most of the haters have never tried the product.

[AndyBrad]

ill quote


General Remarks on Chlorinated Additives.

A number of ‘add-on’ additives intended to improve the performance of commercially available automotive lubricants have been marketed in recent years, under such names as ‘Xxtralube ZX-1’, ‘Metol FX-1’, ‘PPL Anti-Friction’ and ‘Activ-8’.All such products share the following characteristics with ‘X-1R Friction Eliminator’:-

1) They all contain chlorinated paraffin ‘exteme pressure’(EP) compounds first used in the 1930s in heavily-loaded industrial gearboxes, and in some automotive transmission applications, mainly hypoid gears.

2) They all corrode copper-based alloys at moderate temperatures, easily exceeded in all engine, and most transmission applications.This problem was recognised in the 1930s, and chlorinated compounds were never used in transmissions with bronze bearings or gears. No responsible manufacturer ever suggested using them in engines where their increasing activity at high temperatures could lead to piston ring corrosion and bore glazing. (For the same reason, modern ‘hypoid’ additives are not used in engines, even though they are much safer than any chlorinated additive.)

3) X-1R Friction Eliminator and its clones are based upon very outdated technology, which was abandoned by responsible lubricant manufacturers for automotive transmission uses in the 1950s. Chlorinated compounds still find applications in metal working, but their use is on the decline because of health and safety considerations.

4) When burnt, chlorinated paraffins produce corrosive hydrochloric acid, and organo-chlorine compounds including the highly poisonous phosgene gas. Apart from these corrosion and health hazards, with petrol engines the deactivation of exhaust catalysts is also a problem.

5) Unfortunately, these additives give spectacular results in simple EP test machines such as the ‘Falex’. As a marketing ploy, a demonstration of this type looks impressive to those not aquainted with the above facts. Also attractive is the low cost of chlorinated compounds, allowing profits of several thousand percent to be made.

Hope this helps you to make your own mind up on these magic additives.


so thats the syncro rings in your gearbox knackered, bearings etc!

[Bibio]

yes i have read that as well ages ago. when my bike/car explodes then i'll eat my hat but in the mean time i will continue to use ZX1.

the above presumption is that ZX1 actually contains chlorinated paraffin ‘extreme pressure’(EP) compounds. there is no mention of an analysis so its an assumption.

i might one day get a family member to analyse it and tell me what it actually contains. but until then we can only speculate.

[AndyBrad]

OK you go for it. but knowing the damage it can cause i can only advise people strogly to stay away!!!

[yorkie_chris]

this is like trying to describe a fine wine or a well aged whisky that you have never drank.

so far we have 2 people that have never used it and say its snake oil and 2 people who have used it and say it works..

No, whisky or wine is a matter of opinion, this is factual topic to which people bring anecdotal evidence.

I have used it (not in my bike, nor on my advice) and it made FA difference to anything.

[Bibio]

that's the thing m8 because you have read something on the internet you presume that you know what the stuff is. you don't so you cant advise anyone. until you can come back and tell everyone exactly what it contains you only have an opinion and its your opinion that you 'think' it will cause damage but you dont know it will cause damage.

[yorkie_chris]

And with all respect, until you have done the same and found the opposite conclusion, do not tell people it will PREVENT damage.

Get your family member to analyse some :)

[Bibio]

i haven't said it will prevent damage. i said i used it on a car that run dry. now weather or not it was a contributing factor to it not exploding i will never know.

i have found that it makes a difference but that is my findings therefore i use it.

i will give him a bottle to do his dirty deed with but i reckon he already knows what it is :-)

[yorkie_chris]

i will never know.

i have found that it makes a difference

Bit contradictory no? I would need far more proof than that myself since I have seen a fair few engines nip up from oil starvation and run alright once they've cooled down and been topped up.

[Bibio]

the difference i have found is smoother running and believe it or not better fuel consumption. but as said that my findings.

if someone asks my advice on a product i have used then i will give them a truthful answer its then up to the individual to use said product. but to have never used a product and say that its bull is bull.

[monkey]

http://www.team-zx1.com/What-Is-Extralube-ZX1

They say it doesn't corrode copper in their shpeel but also that it's not an oil additive (?!).

My thoughts are that if it was that marvelous everyone would be using it already and we'd all be so much happier. In fact if the claims of massive fuel savings were completely kosha wouldn't car and bike manufacturers use it to sell more by boosting economy figures in this time of woe?

[Biker Biggles]

Why bother spending any money on this stuff?Just buy the right oil and change it at the right intervals and your engine will outlast your interest in it by a long time.Spend the money on petrol and ride it.

[AndyBrad]

ok you have had a good experience from this, good.

ive had a very very bad catastrophic failure from using a similar product.

up to the person that buys the stuff at the end of the day but personally i dont want people crying after they have knackered something after using this product AS I HAVE

the application in the vid is not how it will work in real life, it is fundementally flawed!

[tom-k6]

Why bother spending any money on this stuff?Just buy the right oil and change it at the right intervals and your engine will outlast your interest in it by a long time.Spend the money on petrol and ride it.


+1 :winner:

[AndyBrad]

HEY this stuff can even increase your compression ratio! impressive stuff!

ffs :/

[yorkie_chris]

Baffle them with bullsh*t ;)

[Dunn-y]

This thread wasn't meant to cause arguments. :( Ive already come to the conclusion that im staying away from it and all other products like this. There are far too many horror stories floating about for me to risk it and I cant afford it anyway. Just going to stick with regular oil changes. Got myself some of that Hein gericke stuff with the free Oil Filter so will be doing the swap soon.

Thanks for all your opinions and hopefully we can all get along. ;)

[Bibio]

but Mr we like to argue :-)

[monkey]

No we don't! ;)

[AndyBrad]

devils advocate ;)

[Whitty]

If I put my 'man bits' up your exhaust for 10 mins before you start your engine it will give an extra 3mpg! ..........
Must be true as you have just 'read it on the internet'!

[AndyBrad]

Hmmm wondered what you lot were doing at leeming ;)

[Lozzo]

Bike engines share the same oil between engine and gearbox, with a wet clutch inbetween the two. If you put a product like ZX1 or Slick50 in a bike you are effectively giving your clutch all the reasons it needs to slip and burn out. Bike clutches may run in oil, but they rely on friction to function correctly. If you add a friction reducing compound to the oil then you massively increase the chances of the clutch slipping.

I'm no engineer, but even I can see why this would be a bad thing to do.

A few years ago I worked for the company that imports Motorex Oils from Switzerland. Motorex were at the time the recommended oils for use in Aprilia bikes. We had a huge kerfuffle when it was discovered that using fully synth oil in an Aprilia RSV Mille would cause clutch problems - that little episode cost our company a few thousand sorting out buggered clutches. Apparently the fully synth oil was too good and the clutches were slipping as a result. From then on it was recommended that only semi-synths were used, and this carried over to when Aprilia changed recommended oils to Agip.

I'll stick to proper oils and not some old technology that some half-brained money grabber is foisting on the market with misleading claims backing it up. If this stuff was all it was cracked up to be, you'd find it on the oil shelves of every motor factors and petrol station with a Castrol, Texaco, Total or Shell label on the container. There's a reason why the big oil companies won't sell it, and it's not because they want your engine to blow up either.