Fat loss plan as requested

[gruntygiggles]

To start, I've had amazing results with this in the past, then met Stretchie and put a load of weight on, so went back to it recently and am almost back to my old self again. Bananaman has been doing it since Jan and lost 3st...we've both put before and after pics up in the weight loss thread and I've been asked to share the plan so here goes.

It's a fair bit of reading so if you're not needing or wanting to lose fat,save yourself the boredom...lol.

It is an eating plan based on the Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle fat loss plan written by Tom Venuto many years ago. I have a natural body builder friend in Odessa, Texas who sent me a copy about 8 years now and it took me two weeks to read and fully understand it as it is full of the science behind how the body works.

It is based around the “Starvation Mode” that we all have.



Starvation mode is NOT about the amount of calories you eat in a day never falling below a certain amount. Some people selling starvation mode diet plans will tell you that if you fall below 750 calories a day, you will at some pointc ease to lose weight as the body will “hang on” to all the fat it has. This ladies and gents is an absolute load of crap. Tell that to my family…we lost a16 year old cousin to anorexia…she never experienced this mythical starvation mode where she stopped losing weight due to taking in too many calories. No,she died 6 months after she started an eating plan of 5 grapes and 2 rich tea biscuits a day. If you read any diet plans that try and tell you that Starvation mode is centred around never dropping below a certain number of calories or “you’ll eventually hit a plateau and cease to lose weight” then throw it in the bin and slap the person that wrote it…they are THICK! People die of starvation all the time.

Starvation mode is, in fact the system by which our brain decides how much of the food intake it has to convert to be stored as fat in order to ensure we have enough energy stores for survival. The many many studies that have been done over the last 30 years have shown that the brain kicks in this mode of telling the body it needs to store fat after just 4 hours without food. SO, if you only eat one meal a day, the brain will always tell the body to store as much of that food as fat as it possibly can as it has had to wait 23 and a bit hours for it. If, however you eat within every 4 hours during the day, the brain will never have to send that message to the body to store any of the meals as fat and so the food we take in will be used to fuel the body. This is why you start to feel so good and healthy when you eat like this…it is the way we are designed to eat. When you begin to eat like this, you may find you even gain a few pounds in the first couple of weeks as your body gets used to this new way of eating. Don’t panic, just keep going and as soon as you’ve passed the 14 day mark, you will be amazed at how the fat drops off. It is really quite incredible as Bananaman has kindly shown you all. After 14 days of eating like this, the brain, as well as no longer sending the signal to convert food to fat also does something else. 14 days of regular fuel supply allows the brain to tell the body to revert to its healthiest state. It is not healthy to carry excess fat, it is simply a necessity in order to ensure survival. When the brain knows that the body is getting all the energy it needs from food, itw ill simply tell the body to expel the excess fat. It’s that simple. You feed the body in a way that means fat storage is no longer necessary and so the fat will be surplus to requirements and will literally melt away.

This is why people lose such drastic amounts of weight after having gastric band or stomach bypass surgery. The body is being fed regularly, so the brain knows it no longer needs to store that fat and just gets rid of it. No exercise needs to be done by these people, but still they lose massive amounts of fat. I would never want to live like that though. Because their stomachs can hold so little, they have to literally graze. They are instructed to allow 2 hours between meals so that the body can process the food easily, but they have toe at every two hours in order to take in enough calories each day. They get a double whammy. Mostly, in the months after the surgery, they can’t eat very much at all without feeling sick, so are in massive calorie deficit and get the benefit of the starvation mode kicking in and not storing any more fat as they are taking in food so regularly, but also, because of the calorie deficit, the body has to burn the fat stores it currently has in order to survive.



If those people could find the willpower to follow that eating style or a plan like this before going under the knife, they would not have to face a future of never being able to eat more than 2 tbsps of food at a time.

Now, this plan has a few important parts to it. When you have read them, you will be ready to go off and put it into action. So here they are, starting with the most important!

1/ Do not go more than 4 hours without food. If you go more than 4 hours without eating, your brain believes that food is in short supply and so programmes the body to store as much of the energy from your next meal as fat. So, never go more than 4 hours while you are awake without eating. This is why I say that eating a fatty mars bar is better than eating nothing in this scenario. If you eat nothing, worried about the calories in the mars bar, you guaranteet hat you will gain almost all of the calories from your next meal, whereas eating the mars bar keeps your metabolism working at its optimum level and so you will not only burn off some of the calories in the mars bar by doing no more than just being alive, but you will also drastically cut the calorie to fat store conversion of your next meal. So...eating that mars bar will help you lose fat, not gain fat. Each individual meal should be roughly the size of your clenched fist. It may not seem like a lot, but when you are eating every three to four hours, it is plenty and after a few days, you will not feel hunger anymore. When you have been eating like this for a while, you will find point 5 below quite a challenge...lol. Use your judgement. If you start to feel hungry within 2 hours of eating, you have not had quite enough OR the food was not balanced, so make sure you have complex carbs, good fat and protein in eachmeal.

Obviously it would better to eat something nutritional and balanced, but I use a mars bar simply to make the point.

2/ Do not eat within 2 hours of your previous meal. Your metabolic and digestive systems need this time to cope with the food that you have taken in. They need to process these foods and use them as they are needed. If you eat within this two hour period, you will be wasting some of the nutrient content of your previous meal as the body simply won't be able to cope with processing all of it in one go. You will also increase the calorie to stored fat conversion as this is the "default" mechanism that is used in times of plenty. Think about it...a fat person will get just as fat by eating constantly as they will by eating large meals only 3 times a day. What the body can't use or burn will be stored as fat.

So, make sure you wait for 2 hours after your previous meal but no longer than 4 hours as in point 1.

3/ Always eat before you go to sleep. This is incredibly important and must not be forgotten....again, even if it's something bad, it is better than nothing. Ideally though, I would always have something like a quarter of a chicken breast, 2 slices of lean ham or beef or something similar. If you eat pure lean protein within 2 hours before going to sleep, you will be making your metabolism work whilst you are asleep. If you eat something containing carbs or fats, you will get some calorie to fat store conversion, but if you eat pure, lean protein, it will work your metabolism and provide the body with what it needs to repair your cells, so will help you lose fat at the same time as helping repair your body. If you've done any particularly strenuous exercise like a really hard bike ride, eat a whole lean chicken breast before bed that day and the day after and your recovery will speed up too.

4/ If you go more than 4 hours without eating (apart from being asleep) your brain will trigger that starvation response again and store as much of the next meal as it can as fat. If you only do this every now and then, you will find that you may gain a little or fail to lose and fat for the next day or two, but then the fat loss will return to normal. There are some plans and I believe Tom Venutos new plan is one of them that say being late on just one meal will put you right back to square one. This is kind of true and kind of not. I recently sent this to a friend and said that it takes you back to square one as it is the simplest way of saying it and it does tend to give the motivation never to be late or miss a meal. The fact is that yes…it will put you back to square one in terms of the shedding fat, but so long as you go straight back to eating regularly again you are not going to suffer 2 weeks of weight gain.

The thing to remember is, knowing that if you are late or miss a meal the brain will want to store as much of the next meal as possible as fat; try to make that next meal as healthy as you can.

5/ Have a blow out day. Literally eat what you want every seventh day. This is so that the metabolism keeps working at its optimum level. If you eat the same way all the time, the metabolism will become stagnant, so every seventh day, give it a kick up the butt and it will keep working properly for you. I make this day a Sunday so that I can still have a full fat Sunday Roast when I want one. I have dessert 2 hours later, no matter how unhealthy it is and I never feel bad about it. Two weeks ago, I ate about 4000 calories on a Sunday. I weighed myself on the Monday morning and had still dropped the pounds on the scales. Don't go too mad with massive portions, but just make sure you eat larger portions than you have in the week and that each meal has a higher calorie count than your other weekly meals have.

So...those are the basic rules. It is always better to eat healthier, balanced meals and all meals with the exception of the bedtime meal should contain good fats. Your body will not dispose of all of its stored fat until it is happy that it is being provided the fats it needs in your daily intake.

In short, if you eat like this, you may notice a slight weight gain in the first 5-10 days as your body adjusts to this new routine. Don't panic and start eating less, just stick with it. After 14 days (many studies done into this and it is well proven now) your brain will be satisfied that food (fuel) is in plentiful supply and so it will stop storing calories ingested as fat and instead use only what it has available through your diet. When the brain doesn't worry about hunger or starvation, that need for fat to be stored as the most efficient energy source is gone. You will find in week three of eating like this that your fat loss will start. I say fat loss as this is what the body will be getting rid of. So, if you are fairly healthy anyway and just carrying a few stubborn pounds, you may not lose any weight at all. You may just notice that your muscle strength improves as you are feeding the body in a way that promotes the growth of new muscle and your fat will literally just go and revert to a healthy level so you will notice that you have more definition,l ess wobbly bits and more importantly, the fat that you can't see that can build up around your vital organs will also diminish, so making your risk oft hings like heart disease and diabetes much much lower.

Think of food as fuel, but enjoy yourself. I still eat whatever I want and I don't ever feel guilty if I have something really bad. I only feel guilty if I miss a meal, so I don’t do it…even if it means having something really unhealthy, I just have it and enjoy it.

Make your meals the size of your clenched fist

Make your meals balanced with the exception of a lean protein bedtime snack

Make your meals healthy if you want really good results, but don’t deprive yourself of the things you like.

If you know you won’t be able to eat a meal at certain points in the day, choose a snack that is between 150-300 calories, like a granola bar and piece of fruit or similar that is easy for you to keep in a pocket and eat quickly without needing a break or to even leave your desk.

Last tip…if you’re really bad at keeping time, we all have mobiles, so each time you eat, just set your alarm to go off in 3 hours 30 minutes time to remind yourself you are due a meal. This does happen by the way as you tend to no longer feel any hunger when eating like this.



I’ll say it again…if you do feel hungry, you are not eating enough at each meal. If you feel hungry before the two hour mark, you are REALLY not eating enough at each meal.



If you want the whole in depth plan that I learned all this from, you can buy it here...

http://www.burnthefatblog.com/archives/2010/08/burn-the-fat-review.php (http://www.burnthefatblog.com/archives/2010/08/burn-the-fat-review.php)

It will give you absolutely everything you need. It will tell you how to work out precisely what your daily calorie intake should be at a base and for different levels of activity and what your calorie intake should be depending on whether your goal is fat loss or muscle gain. It will tell you the best things to eat and the things to avoid, but to be perfectly honest, I am not going to enter a Miss Natural Bodybuilder competition, so I am not that concerned with a nano-percenatge of body fat.

Buy it if you want, but if you follow what I’ve said, as Bananaman did, you’ll get the results you want.



Oh, one final note…if you add exercise to the mix, you’ll find you need a little more at each meal, but my word, you’ll see results quickly!



Good luck guys. The proof will be in the pudding…which, on this diet plan you are still allowed….well, every 7th day at least, lol.

[gruntygiggles]

Oh....about the pudding, why wait til the 7th day...if you really crave it, have it as a meal. It's fine if you only do it every now and then. ;-)

Had a few issues copying it as I typed it up in Word, so have gone through now and corrected the conjoined words. Sorry. x

[minimorecambe]

Might try this, thanks GG :D

[Jackie_Black]

Ah burn the fat feed the muscle, got the book somewhere. Was very effective when i used to lift weights. Forgot some of the theory though, cheers for reminding me.

[Quedos]

Thanks GG!!

[dizzyblonde]

If I don't eat evey four hrs, my brain starts to go dizzy and I'm in pass out mode!

I suppose I'm on this plan without realising, as I've lost half a stone recently from watching what I eat, but eating little and often. I always have pudding after evening meals, we eat a lot of salad, so can have a treat every time we do:)
You might not think I needed to lose weight, but I did, I concsiously make the effort to walk the miles into town with the pram a few times a week, and get the bus back, rather than going in the car. My insides have slowly come back(meaning the stomach muscles are gaining their strength), but I have a bit of flobby stuff to work on.....which is taking a little longer than expected.

[metalangel]

Very interesting. Given the calories in beer, does it count as a 'meal'? :p

edit: That's a serious question btw. Mrs Metal has resumed trying the Weigh****chers recipes which are often quite small, so if we try to add in this four hourly munching then the smaller dinners won't seem so bad.

edit edit: LOL at the autocensoring.

[gruntygiggles]

Very interesting. Given the calories in beer, does it count as a 'meal'? :p

edit: That's a serious question btw. Mrs Metal has resumed trying the Weigh****chers recipes which are often quite small, so if we try to add in this four hourly munching then the smaller dinners won't seem so bad.

edit edit: LOL at the autocensoring.


Love that autocensoring...lol!

Regarding beer, no, it will not count as a meal as although it does have carbs in it, it is not food! Sowwy...just have it in moderation.

Regarding weight;-)watchers, what are the size/calorie counts of those meals? Plans like weight;-)watchers work because as far as I know, they do pretty much the same thing, they just miss a few of the extra things that this plan has. Same as a SlimFast plan, they all tell you to have meals, but to have snacks in between, so that you never go too long without food. I never even wanted to try them though as I prefer to cook for myself and homecooked food has no preservatives, compared to ready meals almost always containing them.

Just figure out what her daily calorie intake should be, choose a defecit level to suit what she needs/wants to lose and ensure that each meal is as equal as it can be in size and calorie count. If you have a meal the size of your clenched fist at 1:00pm and then at 3:45pm you have nothing more than a 99cal packet of healthy snacks, by the time you reach the minimum 2 hour period, you will already be hungry again and not only will this work against what you are trying to teach your brain, but it also makes you much more likely to have more in the next meal...which will now be stored as fat as much as it can due to the brain recieving the hunger signal after only having a 99cal snack.

Hope that makes sense. Will try and find a formula for you to work out her calorie needs.

[Quedos]

Hmm - i can all day with eating and not feel hungry - me thinks this is bad really bad.
Okay i'm going to the essence of the plan with my scottish slimmers and see how it goes

[Luckypants]

I have been trying this for this week and frankly it is hard to eat every 4 hours, as it doesn't fit the daily timetable. I'll be setting an alarm now as GG suggests.

Question for anyone who has used this eating pattern while exercising, what is the effect of using an energy drink / energy gels / cereal bard while exercising? Riding my bike I will be taking on calories in my drink and using energy gels to boost my blood sugar before a big climb for instance. I'll also take on cereal bars for more slow release energy to keep me going. If the ride is more than 3 hours, there will be a cafe stop so the 4 hour meal rule will be honoured. TIA.

[gruntygiggles]

Work out your calorie deficit guys, here is how.

Click the first link and you will be able to get an estimated BMR reading. BMR is Basal Metabolic Rate, in other words the amount of calories your body needs on a daily basis in order to survive and function correctly.

Click the second link which will let you choose your current activity level. Do the equation that applies to you and you will be left with the calorie figure that your body needs in order to MAINTAIN CURRENT WEIGHT.

You can then work out a calorie deficit that suits you but I would NEVER advise being in a calorie deficit of more than 800 calories a day unless you are extremely obese. You need to make sure that you ALWAYS give the body enough calories and a deficit of 800cals or more a day will be very hard to maintain and could mean that whilst you will of course lose weight...not all of what you are losing will be fat. Be sensible, don't go too drastic and just let your brain do the work. You'll see the results in no time :-)



http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/


http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/harris-benedict-equation/

[Owenski]

Good read that GG would have been helpful this time last year lol.
The fundamentals of your plan are what was instructed to me by a personal trainer friend (same one who made it coinside with my exercise plan) I lost a healthy 2 stone in 6months. It was all body fat and I generally increased muscle definition due to coinsiding it with increased exercise.
It was intended to complete just in time for the wedding and as I said by pretty much using the guidelines GG sets this was achieved. Its rediculasly easy provided you commit to it, the more you slack the harder it becomes.

Mike, linking it with an excersise plan is easy - dont change the diet plan just increase the exercise. You'll notice no drop in energy levels once your body has shifted to suit its new regime. I expected to feel really drained and struggle to perform but it seemed to do to opposite for me tbh, I woke up more alert and I slept better. Got out of bed and did a bike ride which in 6months went from been 4 miles to 10miles this was within a 30min window I'd allowed myself each morning. In addition to my normal football twice a week I added the cycling and a gym session once a week - then later on twice a week.
With the healthy eating and intense exercise time table I became mentally more alert and physcially the improved fitness was amazing, not quite my fittest ever but with only 6months of it thats not suprising.

[Quedos]

right small meals - soup whole grain crackers and ham - totally calorie count of 210 plus apple - is that enough?

[gruntygiggles]

I have been trying this for this week and frankly it is hard to eat every 4 hours, as it doesn't fit the daily timetable. I'll be setting an alarm now as GG suggests.

Question for anyone who has used this eating pattern while exercising, what is the effect of using an energy drink / energy gels / cereal bard while exercising? Riding my bike I will be taking on calories in my drink and using energy gels to boost my blood sugar before a big climb for instance. I'll also take on cereal bars for more slow release energy to keep me going. If the ride is more than 3 hours, there will be a cafe stop so the 4 hour meal rule will be honoured. TIA.

As far as I remember, eating whilst you are in the middle of exercise is almost free calories Mike, so you're fine with that from what you have said. The reason being is that the body will use what you put into it for the most urgen current need and whilst you are exercising, the food taken in will be used to fuel your current activity. I would happily carry on and have your energy drinks, gels and slow release bars without worrying about the rest of the days calorie intake.

This should not be surprising for anyone interested in fitness. If you ever have energy/protein shakes, you would be advised to have them within a short time of exercise. This is because the body is still working hard to recover from the work it has done. The protein shakes will be used in this time frame by the body to aid recovery and fuelmuscle growth.
Same as taking on simple sugars like having a banana...you're best to have that type of food not too long before you exercise so that the body can use the energy...not have to store it.

I am no expert on this so if anyone knows about this in more detail, please contribute, but I am going from what I have learned. If you go down my facebook friends, you'll see the name Ed Archer. He was the strength and conditioning coach at Gloucester Rugby club when I worked there and it was him and a guy called Peter Finch ( a multiple marathon runner) that got the players eating my Welsh cakes 20 minutes before kick-off and then having protein shakes within 10 minutes of coming off pitch after training or a match.

Here's another thing that is worth remembering. The more muscle you have...the more calories you will need to take in in order to maintain those muscles. So...the calculators above are, as I said estimated. If you have a lot of muscle, it will under-estimate your calorie needs. If you are severely obese...it will over-estimate your calorie needs. I know Mike that you do a lot of exercise which will have built up a lot of muscle, so your body will most definitely need the addtional calories that you will take in with those energy drinks/snacks.

Hope that helps and yes, it is hard to eat every four hours which is why I love decent snacks. If you find it really really hard...use meal replacement shakes if you want. Can go in a normal cup like you're having a brew and still give your body what it needs :-)

[Luckypants]

Got out of bed and did a bike ride which in 6months went from been 4 miles to 10miles this was within a 30min window I'd allowed myself each morning. In addition to my normal football twice a week I added the cycling and a gym session once a week - then later on twice a week. That's fair enough, but for those durations I would not use an energy drink / gel as it is not likely I would use up my glycogen stores. My question was more directed at endurance type sports where you will empty the glycogen energy stores and be reliant on ingested calories and fat conversion to continue. In these scenarios, do the energy drinks / gels count as a meal or not? :o

[gruntygiggles]

right small meals - soup whole grain crackers and ham - totally calorie count of 210 plus apple - is that enough?

Check the soup for how much protein is in it before you add the ham but yeah...sounds great. I mention protein because if the soup has say, peas in it...they are very protein rich, so watch out for that when making meals balanced but, TBH...that is being super picky. Adding the Ham sounds like a good plan to me and that is a great size meal both in volume and in calories. If you had 6 of those a day, plus a lean meal at bedtime, you'd be taking in approx 1,300 calories which is probably not far off your BMR so you may need to make a couple of the meals slightly more calorie rich, especially if you add exercise :-)

[gruntygiggles]

That's fair enough, but for those durations I would not use an energy drink / gel as it is not likely I would use up my glycogen stores. My question was more directed at endurance type sports where you will empty the glycogen energy stores and be reliant on ingested calories and fat conversion to continue. In these scenarios, do the energy drinks / gels count as a meal or not? :o

Sorry, may not have made it clear in first response to this. No, they would not count as a meal as they would be used immediately in order to fuel the current extra activity :-) Write them off as free calories Mike.

[Luckypants]

S'ok GG, our posts crossed in the ether and I saw after I posted you had answered the question. It's what I thought / hoped for :cool:

So energy drinks on my big rides of over an hour and recovery drinks after the big weekend rides. \\:D/

[Quedos]

Carrot and lentil soup - i only like tomato, minetrone and french onion. :-)

They are all weigh****chers soups too!

BMR is 1800 so still trying to get my head round figures!!

[Owenski]

That's fair enough, but for those durations I would not use an energy drink / gel as it is not likely I would use up my glycogen stores. My question was more directed at endurance type sports where you will empty the glycogen energy stores and be reliant on ingested calories and fat conversion to continue. In these scenarios, do the energy drinks / gels count as a meal or not? :o

ah good question, honestly I wouldnt know - I drank nothing but water
for the duration.
I should say that is with the exception of special occasions where rather than beer I drank vodka and apple juice, oh and my morning coffee of course lol.

[gruntygiggles]

Carrot and lentil soup - i only like tomato, minetrone and french onion. :-)

They are all weigh****chers soups too!

BMR is 1800 so still trying to get my head round figures!!


If your BMR is 1800, I would not want to see you take in less than 1,500 cals a day on rest days and no less than 1,700 on gym/exercise days. Any less than that and you may find it really hard to a/ stick to it and b/ you may be losing other tissue as well as fat.

Lentils are high in protein, so TBH, I would not have the ham with that meal or maybe only have a little slice. Save the ham for bedtime :-)

[Quedos]

GG o'm sorry I'm getting confused.com - forgive me

my BMR is 1810 what i need to maintain current weight is 2488

do I take my 500 from my 2488 or my 1800?!?!?

I've skipped the ham - didn;t smell nice :-)

[gruntygiggles]

ah good question, honestly I wouldnt know - I drank nothing but water
for the duration.
I should say that is with the exception of special occasions where rather than beer I drank vodka and apple juice, oh and my morning coffee of course lol.

I never stopped drinking beer. I did cut down, but what I love about eating this way is that you still get the results even when you do continue to enjoy what you want every now and then. I still managed to lose almost 4st in as many months the first time I did this whilst still having a couple of beers 2-4 nights a week.

I love your point about how good eating this way makes you feel after your body has adjusted. My IQ increased by 12 in the year I started eating this way. Not that it makes your brain better...just that I was more focused than I was on the previous years test.

[gruntygiggles]

GG o'm sorry I'm getting confused.com - forgive me

my BMR is 1810 what i need to maintain current weight is 2488

do I take my 500 from my 2488 or my 1800?!?!?

I've skipped the ham - didn;t smell nice :-)

Take the 500 or even 750 from the 2,488.

You need 2,488 to maintain current weight, so that is what you detract calories from in order to be in a healthy deficit :-)

If you are in deficit of 750 calories a day, you will be taking in approx what I said in my other post.

[Quedos]

no don't apologise - you got all of us newbies asking questions :-)

2000 OMG thats some eating!!

[gruntygiggles]

Oh Q - although the calorie calculation means that a calorie deficit of between 500-750 will see you lose between 1-2 pounds of fat a week...with this diet, it will be more than that as the body will choose to expel the fat stores. It means your wee will smell a bit stronger, but it's a small price to pay :-)

[Luckypants]

It means your wee will smell a bit stronger, but it's a small price to pay :-)Drink lots of water and pee lots then...

[gruntygiggles]

no don't apologise - you got all of us newbies asking questions :-)

2000 OMG thats some eating!!

You'd be surprised how easy it is to take in that many calories!

Q - don't get too caught up with calorie counting. The thing about this plan is that it is more important that you teach the brain that it does not need to hold on to fat stores by feeding it regularly. What you feed it is second most important. I tried this out once....I ate double my reccommended calorie intake for e a whole week when I first did this plan and I had still lost when I got on the scales. Only half my average weekly loss, but still a loss because despite taking in more calories, by body was still expelling stored fat :-)

[Quedos]

That made me laugh - I'll drink coffee and mask the smell!

I can but try - its the balancing thing that i;m no good at.

2000 calories is hard - I was brought up on low fat milk and no suger crap - I can get 2000 calories eating crap. but i Struggle to eat my 1250 at the moment but hoping it will be better if i get this regular thing going.

Hmm ham and banana toastie

8 wee a days - thee's something wrong with me if i'm doing that - drinking 2 litres a day I still go very little - until you put me on my bike thane i need at every service station

[gruntygiggles]

Drink lots of water and pee lots then...

Haha.....I actually used to get annoyed with myself if I needed less than 8 wees a day...lol.

[gruntygiggles]

That made me laugh - I'll drink coffee and mask the smell!

I can but try - its the balancing thing that i;m no good at.

As in balancing your meals?

[Luckypants]

More wees is easier to achieve as you get older....

[Quedos]

GG yeah meals I need to plan in advance - just cooked off chilli and cottage pie
both is 225 cal portion so half a this and half the rice for dinner.

[Owenski]

I never stopped drinking beer. I did cut down, but what I love about eating this way is that you still get the results even when you do continue to enjoy what you want every now and then. I still managed to lose almost 4st in as many months the first time I did this whilst still having a couple of beers 2-4 nights a week.

I love your point about how good eating this way makes you feel after your body has adjusted. My IQ increased by 12 in the year I started eating this way. Not that it makes your brain better...just that I was more focused than I was on the previous years test.

Even on my dirty day as I called it I still kept to the drink thing rigidly.

FOCUS! yes totally agree its the improved focus which really really improves every aspect of your mental state. Everything seems so easy which in turn make you generally happier, health living really does make you happy.. so why have I not kept it up :( silly man.

[gruntygiggles]

I'll take your word for that Mike ;-)

Q - here's something I go by when doing meals...

35% - carbs, like brown rice, wholewheat pasta or potatoes
30% - vegetables & fruit (excluding potatoes)
20% - protein
10% - Dairy
5% - good fats like olive oil

So a good daily diet would be :-

7am - Small yoghurt, wholegrain cereal & piece of fruit

10am - Wholewheat pitta with olive oil spread, tomatoes, lean meat and salad

1:30pm - Wholewheat pasta or brown rice with chicken & veg

4:30pm - Snack bar/a couple of ryvitas with cottage cheese or a packet of crisps like Snack-a-Jacks and a piece of fruit

7:30-8:00pm - Baked potato with chilli con carne, sour cream and Veg on the side

11:00pm - 1/4-1/2 chicken breast or other lean protein.

You can move the times around to suit your daily routine, you can substitue any one of the meals for a meal replacement shake if that's all you can eat if, for instance you are in an office and don't have a break due. This is especially convenient sometimes. I used to get called into meetings that would go on way past my next meal time, so I would always have a slim fast shake in a travel mug in my bag. I'd just take that in with me and have it when the time came during the meeting. Just make the diet suit your routine as much as you can and that way, you have a better chance of sticking to it!

[Luckypants]

Sensible question

When does the clock start ticking on your 4 hour eating window in the morning? Basically, how soon after waking up should one be looking to have breakfast?

[gruntygiggles]

Even on my dirty day as I called it I still kept to the drink thing rigidly.

FOCUS! yes totally agree its the improved focus which really really improves every aspect of your mental state. Everything seems so easy which in turn make you generally happier, health living really does make you happy.. so why have I not kept it up :( silly man.


Me too...I met Dan and my days became more about enjoying my time being with him and having friends around on the weekends, cooking big meals and I no longer cared about my weight as he loved me anyway.

I got fed up when I saw the pics of me at AR10 and then, a couple of months ago I just got my backside in gear. It hasn't taken long to get the results again.

[gruntygiggles]

Sensible question

When does the clock start ticking on your 4 hour eating window in the morning? Basically, how soon after waking up should one be looking to have breakfast?

As soon as possible if you're not going to exercise, at least within an hour though. BUT...if you are going to exercise, here's something I learned from The RFU conditioning coach:-

The more your fast twitch musle fibres work, the more fat they burn as they require more energy. One of the best ways to get them working is to exercise as soon as possible after waking up BUT....to have a black coffee, (with sugar if you want it) just before you exercise. So...wake up, clothes on, black coffee, take a minute to let it settle and exercise. Then have your breakfast before you have returned to resting heart rate.

I personally cannot stomach food just after waking up, so I get up, have a coffee and go do the horses which is walking up and down a hilly field picking up poo and pushing a heavy wheelbarrow, then walking dogs, then home to brekkie! I'm always ready for the food when I get home, but somehow the coffee stops me feeling hungry before I get home. If I don't have the coffee...I can't eat quickly enough by the time I get home!

[gruntygiggles]

Got to run...be back a bit later x

[metalangel]

This is great stuff, GG, I will calculate the stuff later. But first, it's four hours since I ate, it's time for my afternoon snack, some tortilla chips (hey, it's all I had)

*munches* This is great!

[Luckypants]

I just had a bowl of special K for my afternoon meal, Spag Bol for dinner later. The BMR / Harris Benedict equation has put my calorie requirement up by 250 a day so I'm liking the look of this! \\:D/

[gruntygiggles]

This is great stuff, GG, I will calculate the stuff later. But first, it's four hours since I ate, it's time for my afternoon snack, some tortilla chips (hey, it's all I had)

*munches* This is great!

When there's nothing else to eat...lol.

A really great snack is this...get a few corn tortillas, cut into eighths and lay flat in a frying pan over a medium heat. No oil or anything, just a dry pan and turn after a minute or so just as they start to get a little colour and do the same on the other side.

Serve with homemade houmous/humus/hummus (however you spell it) or you can make a spicy bean dip. Blitz a can of chick peas, a can of red kidney beans (both drained) with half clove of garlic, 1/4tsp chilli flakes or half a whole fresh chilli, some lime juice, salt and pepper. You'll need to add a little oil to bind, but mainly use water to get it to almost the consistency you want, then add a drop of olive oil or even better peanut ot groundnut oil to finish it off, then you get good fats, protein, carb and veg in a snack! It's lush and you get to control the calories!

I just had a bowl of special K for my afternoon meal, Spag Bol for dinner later. The BMR / Harris Benedict equation has put my calorie requirement up by 250 a day so I'm liking the look of this! \\:D/

Hehe...fab innit! :-)

[maxinc]

Although a bit skeptic at first, I did some further research and finally purchased Tom's audio book today. I've been through the first few chapters and I'm simply blown away by the details and research he did. He dedicated half of the book on the psychological aspect which always seem to be the problem and no other diet book even touches on it. I'm for sure an emotional eater and could not find an answer as to how to address the problem.

I will definitely give this a go and it seems to be the answer to all my past and failed attempts. Thanks for sharing!

[TazDaz]

Based on the BMR calcs I can eat over 3k kcal a day! Sweet! :)

[gruntygiggles]

Although a bit skeptic at first, I did some further research and finally purchased Tom's audio book today. I've been through the first few chapters and I'm simply blown away by the details and research he did. He dedicated half of the book on the psychological aspect which always seem to be the problem and no other diet book even touches on it. I'm for sure an emotional eater and could not find an answer as to how to address the problem.

I will definitely give this a go and it seems to be the answer to all my past and failed attempts. Thanks for sharing!

No problem. I was skeptical as well when My friend Harley sent his old ebook over to me. He swore by it as a bodybuilder but me being me, I did a mountain of research on it. I tend to be of the belief...having done this plan with fab results that if people attack it...they are just jobsworths. Some people can't get through the day without finding something or someone to be negative about...it's how they make themselves feel big. Truth is, if you stick to his plan, you WILL see brilliant results and if you buy his stuff, you'll learn a hell of a lot more than I have been able to tell you here. It has been at least 5 years since I read that ebook and I have no doubt forgotten a load of stuff, but the principals will stay with me forever and I am prrof that you don't need to be that strict with it in terms of what you eat in order to get great results.

[gruntygiggles]

Based on the BMR calcs I can eat over 3k kcal a day! Sweet! :)

What's your exercise regime??? lol

[TazDaz]

Lightly active, so BMR*1.375.

[gruntygiggles]

How can you eat over 3,000 calories a day then?

If 1.375 is your basal rate and you are lightly active, you should be needing approx 1,750 calories a day to maintain weight. If you ate 3,000 calories a day, you'd gain weight VERY quickly. If you want to lose weight, having a lightly active lifetsyle, I'd say you should be eating about 1,400 calories a day.

I'm either very confused or have missed something...lol

[TazDaz]

Eh? Working it out using the methodology given.

BMR = 2332.95
Light activity = 1.375 factor

[yorkie_chris]

BUT....to have a black coffee, (with sugar if you want it) just before you exercise.

I have also heard about caffeine being good to have after exercise too. I've no problem putting the kettle on any time but is there any truth in it helping recovery?

[gruntygiggles]

Lightly active, so BMR*1.375.

Eh? Working it out using the methodology given.

BMR = 2332.95
Light activity = 1.375 factor

Easy to see why I got confused...your first post just says that your BMR is 1375...I guess the * was meant to be a X, as in BMR x 1.375, so I thought you were stating your BMR...lol. Thought you must be an athlete or something to then need to ingest 3000 cals a day :-)

Yeah, if your BMR is 2333 (rounded up) with your added activity, you need to ingest approx 3,200 calories to maintain weight.

[gruntygiggles]

I have also heard about caffeine being good to have after exercise too. I've no problem putting the kettle on any time but is there any truth in it helping recovery?

Not sure on that one...will find out :-)

[Owenski]

I have also heard about caffeine being good to have after exercise too. I've no problem putting the kettle on any time but is there any truth in it helping recovery?

Not sure on that one...will find out :-)

If I may answer GG, you'll be pleased to know YC that caffine and nicotine both give the metabolic system a boost. To use either in excess is detremental to its effect so dont get me wrong they're in no way good for you, but to finish a work out with a coffee and smoke is actually a great fat burner. Moz (the PT who helped me) said a cig and a coffee between work out and shower after a gym session will knock you on your ass, then power it down with a protein shake/tuna pita bread after the shower and you're laughing.

[The Idle Biker]

Personally I think there's good science in this plan, but I think one of the biggest benefits is that there is a plan and it doesn't mean you go hungry. In any case for many dieting without a regime is doomed to failure.

I also think it's interesting that the "unconsciuos" or "chemical" mind thinks the body may be starved and turns food into fat as a reserve, whereas in truth the conscious mind knows you won't be starved.

Anyhow, I've lost 6 pounds in 11 days by sparring 3 times a week, running, eating healthily and most importantly for me cutting out the wine and beer.

After all these years, my unconsciuos mind equates having a good work to having a good few beers as a reward. :smt001

[Sir Trev]

As I won't be cutting things out I'll give this a go. Have already reduced fatty stuff, puddings and booze, go to the gym and keep active at weekends in the garden. Lost 6kgs quite easily but have stabalised.

It's 11:17 right now and I've just finished "lunch". Have had some funny looks but that's normal so what the heck. Roll on 16:00 when I can have "lunch2".

Will have to alter my calendar to block out the time or I'll forget...

[Luckypants]

Keeping to the eat every 4 hours takes some doing, especially when



you forget to take your sarnies with you on the ORG MTB trip
Tesco screw up your food delivery and there is no food in the house.
4 hours is not very long

Think I'm managing to stick to it and I'm waiting for the fat to melt off \\:D/

[gruntygiggles]

Keeping to the eat every 4 hours takes some doing, especially when



you forget to take your sarnies with you on the ORG MTB trip
Tesco screw up your food delivery and there is no food in the house.
4 hours is not very long
Think I'm managing to stick to it and I'm waiting for the fat to melt off \\:D/
I was like that too to start off with :-)

[anna]

For those combining this plan with a strenuous exercise regime you may want to consider making sure that you eat a lean protein within each meal.

[gruntygiggles]

For those combining this plan with a strenuous exercise regime you may want to consider making sure that you eat a lean protein within each meal.

Yep...all meals should be balanced! Lean protein should always be part of a balanced meal.

[tactcom7]

So my BMR is 1749 and me harris benedict thing is 1.375 so thats 2404 calories. So 750 less is roughly 1650 calories a day. Unless i've messed it up somewhere?

Quick question GG, how much would you say a diet like this would cost you a week, starting with buying things from scratch (the cupboards are bare)?

[gruntygiggles]

Cost is something that will change drastically from one person to the next depending on where you shop and what you buy. If you have all organic, shop at Waitrose and buy top brand everything, your food bill will be enormous. If you go to local shops or Asda for example and buy value store brands, saving your money to get good quality meat, you'll have a much lower food bill. I'll go do my weekly shop on asda and post it up here with what I'd cook with it all.

[gruntygiggles]

So, this is just an idea of the main things and it will do about 10 days for me and Dan.

Enough basic beef ragu to be used to make 2 servings of lasagne, 2 servings of chilli and 2 servings of bolognese. If you wanted kidney beans in your chilli, buy them.
Enough chicken to make 8 full size fajitas and 6 servings of chicken and pineapple curry.
Enough turkey mince to make 4 turkey burgers.
Enough Fish for 4 meals
enough pork for 6-8 meals like pork medallions with veg, pork stir fry if you want and so on.

You get the idea, there is enough veg to do about a week I guess but I'd no doubt add more, I've just done this as a really quick, so I know I'll have forgotten stuff.

I'll make soups, big portions that I'll split into smaller meal portions and so on, you get the picture. If you need to build up a store cupboard as well, then that will cost you more too.


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[gruntygiggles]

I should add....I am also the worst for completely ignoring my "list" and going shopping when hungry, so don't listen to me too much...lol

[tactcom7]

Thanks GG, really appreciate you taking the time to do that. Now all I need to do is learn how to cook beef ragu and chicken and pineapple curry ;) lol

[gruntygiggles]

Ragu is as easy as you want it to be, but I like to hide a load of veg in it...and just realised I missed celery off that list, lol.

The quick, simple, easy for everyone ragu that is also extremely low in fat is this...

Put a dry deep frying pan or saucepan over a medium heat and add your minced beef. Cooked over a medium heat like this, the fat will render out before the beef overcooks, so as soon as all of the meat has turned brown, empty it all into a colander or through a sieve. If you do this over a bowl, you'll see just how much fat you've just saved yourself eating!

Leave the beef over a bowl but still in the sieve and set aside. Use a food processor to blitz 1 onion, 2-3 carrots and 2-3 celery sticks. Put the pan back over the heat and add the veg mix. When it's blitzed like this, it releases juices so will cook easily enough in the teeny fat residue from the beef and its own juices. This should take no more than 2-3 minutes. Add the beef back to the pan (letting it sit like this allows time for ALL of the fat to drain off it) and add 1tsbp tomato puree and cook, stirring for another 2 minutes. Then add 500g chopped tomatoes, 1/4 tsp dried oregano, a good pinch of salt and good pinch of pepper. If you want this to be eaten quickly, also add 1tsp sugar to counter the tomatoes, but if you cook for more than an hour, you won't need the sugar. Add 250ml beef stock and as soon as it is bubbling, turn down to a simmer and leave to simmer, stirring occasionally for 30+ minutes. I will cook this down for a good 3 hours + adding a little water when needed to keep it from drying out. The longer it cooks, the better it tastes.

That is a basic ragu for many uses. If you want to do bolognese or lasagne, just chop some mushrooms up and add 1/4tsp dried basil. If you want to make a chilli, add 1 1/2 tbsp ground cumin, 1/8tsp cayenne pepper, a cinnamon stick or 1/4tsp ground cinnamon, 2 fresh chillies (deseed if you don't want it too hot) and if you want the extra flavour, 1tsp ground coffee per 500g meat and a few bits of dark chocolate right before serving. Finish with fresh coriander and of course, add kidney beans if you want them as well, let them cook for at least 20 minutes.

Chicken & Pineapple curry? Easy again. Grate or blitz a 2 inch piece of root ginger and 3 garlic cloves. Heat a little oil, groundnut, vegetable or sunflower over a medium-low heat and add a 1/2 inch piece of cinnamon stick (if you don't have it, use ground cinnamon later), 5 cardamom pods and 1 tsp mustard seeds. Let these heat through until they become fragrant and add the ginger & garlic paste. Stir for 30 seconds, then add 1/4tsp tumeric, 1tbsp ground cumin and 1/2tsp chilli powder or cayenne pepper (add 1/8tsp ground cinnamon now if you didn't have it in bark form). Stir for 1-2 minutes until the spices are really fragrant and then add your chicken. Cook until the chicken is sealed and pour in enough water to just cover the chicken. Leave to simmer for 15 minutes, stirring occasionally. Now add your pineapple, cut into bitesize chunks and if you want to be super healthy, just reduce the sauce to your desired consistency, but if you want to make it more luxurious, but without a million calories, just add half a tub of elmlea light single cream. When you add this, stir it through for no more than another minute and your curry is done. Just wait until your pineapple chunks have been cooking for 5+ minutes before adding any cream. You can also use real cream if you want, but if you're going to do that, you may as well just use coconut milk as it will give a better taste.

:-)

[BanannaMan]

I lost 3 stone in 5 1/2 months on this plan.
Worked really well for me.
A few tips from my own experience:

Not the ideal but, My schedule won't always allow eating exactly every 4 hours.
As long as I had 4 to 5 small meals, spread out evenly throughout the day it still worked for me. (5 was better 4 was minimum)

Eat healthy food. As much as possible.
Fresh food is always better than prepared food and foods that really put on the fat will still really put on the fat if you continue you eating them.

Look for healthy alternatives to the junk food (snacks) you've been eating.

Don't go crazy over calories, but do have a look.
You'll be surprised to see some of the so called heathy foods may have just as many calories as the fattening food you were eating.
And obviously taking on calories you don't need is only more calories that need to be lost.

Drink more water and less of the whatever it is you're drinking most of the time now. If you don't like water they make low calorie flavors you can add to them.

All things in moderation, (yes, even the heathy stuff).
So don't eliminate 100 % of the "bad things" (fat, caffeine, etc.) from your diet.



And to everyone trying this, stick with it!
Once you work out what foods you'll be eating and when, and start loosing the weight, the rest is a breeze!


HTH

[Luckypants]

Would a decent sized banana count as a meal? (Size of clenched fist...)

[gruntygiggles]

Would a decent sized banana count as a meal? (Size of clenched fist...)

It'll give you a nice quick boost, but leave you feeling hungry before the two hours is up. I'd rather add something to it than have it on its own, but if you can eat in two hours, not really a major problem :-)

[maxinc]

The average banana has about 120 calories so about 1/15 of daily intake.

[Luckypants]

<snip>

4:30pm - Snack bar/a couple of ryvitas with cottage cheese or a packet of crisps like Snack-a-Jacks and a piece of fruit

<snip>

Would a decent sized banana count as a meal? (Size of clenched fist...)

It'll give you a nice quick boost, but leave you feeling hungry before the two hours is up. I'd rather add something to it than have it on its own, but if you can eat in two hours, not really a major problem :-)

I'm gonna take that as a yes it is a 'meal' - might have a bit of ham or chicken with though.

[Luckypants]

Anyone else trying this? I've been 'on it' for about three weeks and have out on 3lbs :( My belt is looser though, so I'm kidding myself it's new muscle from cycling...

Gonna give it a couple more weeks then bin it if I still putting on weight...

[Bri w]

I've found the salmonella I got on hols, and I'm just getting over has helped me lose just over a stone in 8 days...

The intravenous fluids and antibiotics are definitely fat free.

But the cost of loo roll.......

[gruntygiggles]

Anyone else trying this? I've been 'on it' for about three weeks and have out on 3lbs :( My belt is looser though, so I'm kidding myself it's new muscle from cycling...

Gonna give it a couple more weeks then bin it if I still putting on weight...

That's just it though Mike...if your belt is looser, it is working. It's not about WEIGHT loss...it's about FAT loss. If you want weight loss, you need to stop doing the amount of exercise you do as that is making you gain muscle all the time which will increase your WEIGHT.

If you're gaining weight, but your losing inches, you are gaining muscle and losing fat...toning up if you will. Sounds like it's working really well TBH. From what you said you wanted...it seems like you're getting it. Maybe from now on, measure the results in inches, not lbs?

Either way, any kind of belt loosening when you're so close to your ideal weight is good news! :-)

[Luckypants]

'Ideal weight' for me is about 1st 3lbs lighter :( according to all the bumf. That's what I was when training seriously and , while I don't expect to get down to that weight again, it shows my current weight is higher than it needs to be. I'll accept some of the weight gain is down to muscle mass as I am getting faster, but I need to lose the lbs to be faster uphill.... Like I said, I'll give it another fortnight.

[gruntygiggles]

'Ideal weight' for me is about 1st 3lbs lighter :( according to all the bumf. That's what I was when training seriously and , while I don't expect to get down to that weight again, it shows my current weight is higher than it needs to be. I'll accept some of the weight gain is down to muscle mass as I am getting faster, but I need to lose the lbs to be faster uphill.... Like I said, I'll give it another fortnight.

Yeah...see how it goes. You could always order the ebook and get really strict with it...I think someone on here has it actually :-)

[metalangel]

BUMP! Well, here we are near enough a month later, and I weigh the same.

HOWEVER, I'm happier, as I no longer sit feeling hungry telling myself 'only an hour until it's 6pm, because that's dinner time', because now I've had something to munch at 3pm. So I think I'll carry on!

[Bibio]

46'' to 34'' waist in 9 months... that is all now go about your business.

[Quedos]

Lets not go there - I'm going to the doc's after the hols as something somewhere is not working.
4 weeks and 8lbs on despite being at the gym 6 days a week and everything getting tighter.

Think I'm going back to gorging as least that worked. ( not good for the teeth though)

[Milky Bar Kid]

Too much gym there Q!

[Quedos]

Well - i call it the gym - I'e got a programme for two days at the gym and the other 4 is 35 min on the Wii active.

[Bibio]

Lets not go there - I'm going to the doc's after the hols as something somewhere is not working.
4 weeks and 8lbs on despite being at the gym 6 days a week and everything getting tighter.

Think I'm going back to gorging as least that worked. ( not good for the teeth though)

if you are exercising more that you used to then you will be building muscle content, muscle is heavier than fat so you put weight on. what you will be finding is that your size will be reducing e.g. an inch off here and an inch off there. this is perfectly normal if a bit disheartening.

gorging is bad as it stretches the stomach muscles and in turn causes flab.

[Quedos]

if you are exercising more that you used to then you will be building muscle content, muscle is heavier than fat so you put weight on. what you will be finding is that your size will be reducing e.g. an inch off here and an inch off there. this is perfectly normal if a bit disheartening.

gorging is bad as it stretches the stomach muscles and in turn causes flab.

i wish Bib - size ain't reducing. just buying bigger clothes

[gruntygiggles]

i wish Bib - size ain't reducing. just buying bigger clothes

Exercise is the smaller factor in fat loss hun, could you pm me or post up if you want what you eat in a typical day and at what times? If you are in expending more.calories and consuming less than before, you should be losing fat. As bibio says, a lot of working out, especially resistance exercises will make you gain muscle. Give me a more detailed breakdown of exactly what you're doing each day, including your day off if you can. I bet it's only something simple. X

[Bibio]

GG has covered this but i'll just push it back to the top.

fat is basically unused fuel.

treat your eating habits like you would a fire. to much coal at once and you dampen the fire but a little at a time will keep it burning.

another factor that most people seem to forget about is 'amount'. if you are a desk jockey then you are not burning the same fuel as say a labourer on a building site so you have to eat less as your body is not processing the food as fast. expenditure has to be more than input if you want to loose weight.

comfort eating has to be as far as i'm concerned the biggest cause of weight gain.

sugar is the devil and should be avoided in large amounts. biscuits, chocolate and cake are the worst for this. its ok to have a little now and again but not all the time. dieting usually makes you tired and sleepy so use sugary things as a pick me up when needed.

there is one other thing that causes bloat and its a nasty bacteria in your stomach. no amount of dieting will eradicate it and has to be treated with drugs. but this only affects your waistline.

if you are doing it right then you should be going to the toilet more often than normal. the weight loss should be gradual. once at your weight then start adding food till you reach a happy medium. being to skinny is just as bad as being to fat and is not healthy.

do it slowly, do it right and you should not have to do it again.

[Paul the 6th]

there is one other thing that causes bloat and its a nasty bacteria in your stomach.


Got any more info's on this bibster? I get absolutely rockin bloating quite often, eg. if I were to have a jacket potato this lunchtime I'll still be feeling uncomforatbly full & erghhhh til atleast 6pm (even worse on an evening)..

There's a bit of an art form for getting the balance between making sure I'm not going to be hungry too soon, nor am I gonna be feeling like a fat barrel of bleh for the rest of the day

[maxinc]

Great stuff. I lost 10 pounds in 5 and a half weeks by only adjusting the food intake. Could not feel any better and can't wait to start exercising more.

After I revised the portions, number of meals and caloric content of everything that I eat, I have a mild hunger sensation all the time but as Tom Venuto mentioned, I like to think of it as the feeling of loosing fat :))

I was amazed that I was constantly eating 3000 - 4000 calories daily when I would only need about 2800 to maintain my weight. Now I average 2000-2500kcal a day and actually eat more food.

I eat more bread, rice and potatoes that I was eating before. I'm cutting down on butter, cheese, sausages and other high density calorie foods and replacing them with higher density nutritive foods with lower caloric density.

Very hard to believe that I can still have a BBQ every weekend with ice cream desert and still loose weight hahaha :))

[Quedos]

GG - the doc's have got the stuff at the mo Just doing the usual checks - though this week I lost - just to prove me wrong.
I've got the week off so I'll be doing my damndest to stick to SS plan during it m(1350 cals plus free veg 'cept peas pot sand sweetcorn)- - It give me freedom on what i eat but need to get the little and often trick sorted. Finding it hard at work as I'm choatic eater. Find that dinner is causing the main prob's finishing at getting dinner by 8.

normal time for eating - 6.45am - 10.15( really low calorie 100 max) lunch at abt 12/1 depend on work
should be tea at abt 3 but normally missed and if anything eaten it a yogurt/fruit on the run.
dinner on a good day is 7 but more often 8. so timing are critical - I'm getting better in the 2 slices of ham before bed.
Takes 3 weeks to learn new habits so I'm perserving and I'll get to sit down and plan a little better with the week off

[Quedos]

Tuesday - shreddies and skimmed milk at 6.30, 2 flumps and tea at 10.30, lunch at 1 - cup a soup(french onion) and melba toast fromage frais and cherries, dinner at 8.30 - bowl of cornflakes

Yesterday Breakfast 6.45 shreddies, tea - 4 block of choc and tea 11.15, ravioli and granary bread, cherries, Yog, tea at 315 apple, dinner at 18.30 marmalade pork and parsley mash (hmmm) 8 inari sushi x2
and my ham before bed. I wasn't at the gyme or doing any exercise yesterday so slightly better time wise but still chaotic both 'snacks were eaten on the run'

[aarond]

im no expert at all and everyone can tell me to shut up, but thats a lot of carbs. Im sure i read somewhere carbs= glycogen in muscle, and you want this glycogen depleted to start burning fat as fuel. aslo are you bowls of cereal normal sized bowls?

[Quedos]

yeah aaron - all 30 or 45g bowls for cereals

I'm a carb freak - try really hard to cut down but I get so crabby it unbelievable

[Bibio]

here you go Paul.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicobacter_pylori

[aarond]

yeah... carbs are good but evil. have sent you a pm

[maxinc]

im no expert at all and everyone can tell me to shut up, but thats a lot of carbs. Im sure i read somewhere carbs= glycogen in muscle, and you want this glycogen depleted to start burning fat as fuel. aslo are you bowls of cereal normal sized bowls?

It doesn't really matter how many carbs you are eating as long as you are maintaining a caloric deficit. If you need 2500kcal to maintain but only ingest 2000kcal consisting of 100% carbs, you will still burn fat by doing nothing.

[aarond]

yeah sorry your 100% right, i should have said there are a fair few people that can be very carb sensitive and they can lead to high water retention etc... but obviously at a deficit you will loose weight from a combination of muscle and fat. I just thought that to try and maintain muscle and loose fat as weight was a better idea to have a higher fat and protein content diet to try and get the body using fat as fuel rather than protein. But im happy to be put right.

[anna]

Wow.. I was going to reply that it seemed like you weren’t eating enough... then I did a quick food diary for my week as a comparison (and honestly I never considered I ate a lot of carbs, clearly I do as well!)

Monday

Breakfast: Crunchy nut cornflakes & milk (full fat)
Lunch: Soup - cabbage
Snack: fruit salad
Dinner: chicken & Bombay potatoes.

Tuesday

Breakfast: Crunchy nut cornflakes & milk (full fat)
Lunch: Soup - cauliflower
Snack: plums * 2
Dinner: Pasta with peppers and turkey.

Wednesday

Breakfast: Crunchy nut cornflakes & milk (full fat)
Lunch: Avocado salad (lemon juice & garlic dressing)
Snack: Carrot soup & pistachio nuts
Dinner: Pasta with peppers and turkey & Chirico

Thursday

Breakfast: Crunchy nut cornflakes & milk (full fat)
Lunch: Salad with boiled egg and a few bacon bits.
Snack: Peach and a plum
Dinner: Rice and chicken fingers

and honestly would love to hear what people think of the above, I have managed to maintain my weight but even when I run the scale doesn’t shift... although I am culprit to the odd late night crisp snacking watching a film ;)

[maxinc]

yeah sorry your 100% right, i should have said there are a fair few people that can be very carb sensitive and they can lead to high water retention etc... but obviously at a deficit you will loose weight from a combination of muscle and fat. I just thought that to try and maintain muscle and loose fat as weight was a better idea to have a higher fat and protein content diet to try and get the body using fat as fuel rather than protein. But im happy to be put right.

Of course, that was a bit of an exaggeration on my side since it is almost impossible to eat 100% carbs. I was merely highlighting the fact that of what it was said before, that overall, your energy expenditure needs to be higher than the energy intake to produce fat loss.

You are right, when keeping a caloric deficit for too long, the body will start to adapt by reducing amount of spent energy by cutting down on muscles in an attempt to balance the IN and OUT.

For this reason it is crucial to have a diet rich in proteins and add weight training exercises, to force the body to hold onto the muscles and burn the stored fat to compensate for the energy imbalance.

[phil24_7]

Where is good to get some small meal ideas for a very fussy eater? Need to try to get a balanced meal when I ain't big on veg! LOL

[gruntygiggles]

Hide Veg in other things Phil. I will send you some recipes hun x

[phil24_7]

Why fank you very much. Will have to get Kate to hide them else I'll know they're there! LOL

[EssexDave]

Ketosis diet seems interesting (google for more information) It's pretty much the atkins diet done properly and is what the bodybuilders use. I believe, the complete absence of carbs makes for a very grumpy person.

Generally speaking you want to eat a lot of protein as it makes you feel fuller for longer, and you can eat more as for each gram they have less calories.